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Why is the site against DIY Treatment?

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  1. NJ-BITES

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Thu Aug 4 2011 15:53:01
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    Per request:

    ?Why is the site against?

    Users sharing;
    1… DIY environmental preparation advice?

    2… DYI physical, non-chemical procedures?

    3... Recommendations of equipment?

    4... Recommendations of products that have worked for them?

    5… DYI chemical treatments?
    Including, non-solicited advice, on same.
    (Pretty obvious reasons for #3, but this is a by request thread.)

  2. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Thu Aug 4 2011 16:07:49
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    NJ-Bites,

    I don't have time to reply at this very moment but will respond later. In the meantime, I did want to let you know I edited your title from "?Why is this site against?" for clarity, so others would know what it was about.

    I started and run the site but am "not an expert."
  3. cilecto

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Thu Aug 4 2011 16:59:12
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    By your question, NJ, you are implying that you believe that this forum is all the things you claim it is. On what basis are you making these statements?

    Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night...
    - Psalms 91:5-7

    (Not an pro)
  4. NJ-BITES

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Thu Aug 4 2011 17:57:31
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    It's a request post from someone else that is reading.

  5. cilecto

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Thu Aug 4 2011 18:15:18
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    Feel free to relay the specific accusations of the person who requested that you post this. Or, have him/her do so him/herself.

    Semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit.

  6. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri Aug 5 2011 1:08:23
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    Perhaps I can clarify things a bit.

    NJ-Bites and I have had some discussions (mostly via PM or email) in which I asked her to stop repeatedly posting DIY treatment advice (and in which I tried to explain the reasons why).

    A lot of NJ-Bites' posts have given detailed advice about treatment, and suggested that others follow her protocols for cleaning, vacuuming, steaming, DE, etc.

    While it's fine to post (once) outlining strategies one has taken as an individual, it is quite another thing to respond to all kinds of posts repeatedly with the same kinds of unsolicited directive treatment advice and same laundry list of techniques.

    NJ-Bites had posted over 100 times in her first four days on the site (the forums get an average of 69 posts total per day, to give you some perspective), often with repetitive information. (There were additional posts which were deleted as repetitive, repostings, or clearly off-topic.)

    The volume of posts can be overwhelming and can drown out the voices of others who are seeking to ask questions or provide their own support and suggestions, including the voices of more experienced Bedbuggers and seasoned professionals.

    Today, NJ-Bites posted on another thread a post which was off-topic and which was making all kinds of accusations about the admin of this site.

    Because I think it will help clarify why NJ-Bites started this thread, here is a snippet of the message which has been deleted from NJ-Bites' "Anxiety" thread:

    NJ-Bites wrote,

    I write in more then 80 public forums.

    2-years into this nightmare…
    I recently joined my 4th bb forum.
    Which, I have found to be all about the money they can get from their sponsors.
    They really do not want people sharing DIY because it could hurt their wallets.

    One might ask.
    ?What brought me to conclude that?
    When a horrified and distraught first timer entered and posted desperate for help. I gave the all the 911-help I had to offer.
    (Basic things.
    Like, pack up and get the vacuum.)
    I was told by the host, to stop offering up advice. THAT lead me to conclude. This person does not want people to share DIY. They want the people to visit their sponsors so they can get paid.

    (NJ-Bites, I hope you don't mind me posting that, but since you posted it on the forums and did not ask for it to be deleted, and since the purpose of this thread as you stated it above is otherwise pretty cryptic, I thought it would help to give a bit of context. I asked you to start this thread precisely because you had those concerns.)

    Since I am not aware of any other bed bug forums where advertising is prevalent and where DIY is not recommended, I assumed these comments referred specifically to this site.

    This site isn't all about making money. It takes a lot of time for me to run the site, and money is required for operating costs, so the site does carry ads (and you can read more about these in the Disclosure Policy).

    There are some Google ads which should be clearly marked, but most of the ads here are affiliate ads (mostly for US Bed Bugs, Amazon, etc.) which only earn money for the site if people actually purchase after clicking the ads to go to the merchant (these are commissions paid by the advertiser and do not affect the cost to you of what you purchase). Although I am really appreciative when people choose to support the site by shopping through our affiliate links, for example, most users of the site probably never make such a purchase. And that's fine -- I am glad to provide the space for discussion and the FAQs and other materials, and everyone can use these free of charge.

    As to the accusation that I don't want people to DIY because I make more money if they don't, I can assure you this is not true. In fact, this site would make a lot more money if it directed people to do their own treatment and sold them packages of pesticides.


    There are a number of reasons we do not recommend DIY treatment:

    (1) There is no one right way to do things that suits every situation. So giving someone a laundry list of your methods is not really very helpful. It may have worked for you. It does not mean it is worth repeating in another situation.
    (2) Bed bugs are difficult to treat and doing things wrong can lead to safety problems and can even make bed bug problems worse (for example if they are repelled and spread around the home).
    (3) In most cases, a knowledgeable, experienced professional can get rid of bed bugs faster and more thoroughly than a person without the knowledge, skills and experience. Most less experienced pros are going to be way more experienced than you or I.
    (4) Many people are entitled to have landlords pay for treatment, or are planning to pay for their own treatments -- and in these cases, people should think long and hard about what (if anything) they do themselves before their homes are inspected and treated. They should not jump in and follow someone else's protocol. Most PCOs do not want to come in after you have either cleaned away all evidence of the problem (in which case they may not be able to treat you, given no evidence), or where you have started to treat in ways which may work against their protocols.
    (5) Even when someone really needs DIY advice, most people here (including NJ-Bites and I) are not qualified to give others advice about the best methods for treatment. You may have done your own treatment, but you are not an expert. There may be better ways than those you tried.

    Those who are qualified to give advice on bed bug treatment here include the experts (entomologists and PCOs who are known to us). Remember that they have seen many botched DIY jobs where they were later brought in. They know better than any of us how badly things can go wrong, and this may make them reluctant to dole out advice about treatment.

    If an expert who is known to me to be an expert posts DIY advice, that is acceptable. Many won't go into detail, and though I can't speak for them, I suspect there are liability reasons behind that as well as concern for people misapplying or overapplying pesticides.

    The situation you mention in the quoted snippet above -- where you gave treatment advice to a newcomer who was distraught -- is a prime example where the user does not need treatment advice. Not then and there, and not from another inexperienced forum user.

    A distraught newcomer needs to stop, gather themselves, find out what their options are regarding professional treatment (which in many cases is paid for by someone else).

    Only then, if DIY is the only option available, does the person need to start learning how to DIY. And at that point, they need to get good, solid advice from expert sources, not from random people who tried this or that.

    And yes, sometimes DIY is a necessity, but knowledge is key before it begins. We have FAQs on DE and killing bed bugs with dry vapor steam, which can be helpful to those doing their own treatment. While they were written by Bedbuggers, they cite and link to experts.

    We also have links to Comprehensive Guides in the Resources page, which detail methods for steaming, vacuuming, and give more information on pesticides. These are so valuable and should be the starting place for people who want DIY advice. You simply cannot get rid of bed bugs without a certain amount of knowledge.

    So instead of typing a few lines (or even 40 lines) about how to use DE, why not direct users to the DE FAQ which a number of us took time to compile and where we tried to quote those who know more about DE than we do? The same goes for the steam FAQ. And the Comprehensive Guides which form some of our best sources of information.

    Again, I have no problem with people posting once to describe their own DIY protocol. However, this is not the same as giving DIY advice to others or repeating your protocols over and over. The same goes for posting about products. It's fine to post to a thread about steamers saying how much you like your Vapomore. It's quite another thing to post about how much you love your Vapamore in thread after thread.

    I hope this message has clarified things for you, NJ-Bites.

  7. Rosae

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri Aug 5 2011 2:42:03
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    Actually; there is a DIY forum, badbedbugs.com. There everyone can post what has worked for him.

    Sorry, it is a blog where you can place comments.

  8. Winston O. Buggy

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri Aug 5 2011 7:57:11
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    And the bed bugs just laugh!

  9. cilecto

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri Aug 5 2011 8:44:20
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    Notwithstanding NoBugs' caveats, the bulk of discussion on this forum is - to some degree or another - about self empowerment and DIY. Except in cases of "spray and pray" or (at the other extreme) where professionals handle every element of treatment, there's a significant element that the victim is expected to do him/herself. The site is rich in guides which people with bed bugs can study to become better DIY-ers or better consumers of professional services.

    I've rarely told people on the forum to not DIY. Three that come to mind are people attempting their own "thermal", children and people who have done repeated DIY over an extended period and failed. In NJ's case, I even strategized with her(?) on saving her waterbed.

    The amazing thing about this site is how it brings together people struggling with bed bugs with leading industry practitioners, scientists, inventors and entrepreneurs. To make it worth participating in and keep it useful takes a lot of work on the part of the host and volunteers to provide a quality experience. They respond empathetically to people in distress. They support and challenge advice given. If necessary, they will remove posts that offer bad advice. In extreme cases, users have been blocked from posting. All this work has kept this forum relevant (and cited in media) for over four years.

    NJ has yet to cite specifics regarding this site being "anti-DIY".

  10. NJ-BITES

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri Aug 5 2011 9:33:40
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    It is true.
    I am exceedingly distraught.

    At 44 I had no clue Cimex Lectularius even existed on the planet. When we removed the headboard the first time I saw thousands of bugs!!! running around the underside hidden compartment. I screamed and puked that very moment. I can’t seem to get that horrific image out of my head. That image is driving my adrenaline spikes to record highs. (I still wonder why, I never noticed them until they were en mass.)

    It was also very traumatic for me to learn this is in epidemic proportions. My adrenaline, instincts and emotions over took logic. All I could think about was helping the entire world protect themselves because that will protect me.

    I sit here on the wall of shame today humbly, in acknowledgement of my out of control instincts, to help. Exceedingly, some could say.

    I do see your point on conflicting statements.
    EI:
    Nobugsonme “Again, I have no problem with people posting once to describe their own DIY protocol.”

    Rosae “Sorry, it is a blog where you can place comments.”

    ?I am confused. ?Do we only blog-post once here or is this a place where we can blog-post comments freely or both?

    If this is not a place where one can blog-post regularly. I need to go somewhere else where everyday-interaction might be more welcome.

    I do not mind quoting that particular post at all..

    However, in all fairness.
    I would like to include the entire post.
    Below.

    In closing.
    I am not mad. I like it here!

    I will admit.
    I need to get a better grip on the tenacious nature of a Capricorn/Dragon.

    I am sorry if I have over stepped some boundaries here but I could not see the boundary lines.
    (If you look carefully at my writings you can plainly tell, my nature is that of a natural-born lecturer and I am also Dyslexic. I see things from different angels. Angle that most others cannot see but that is another topic..)

    This image is for you all.
    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MOlpHTiwAq0/TgnnhigcjmI/AAAAAAAAAHc/tYShhfUUKEs/s1600/I+am+sorry.jpg

    Love Ya! NJ

  11. NJ-BITES

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri Aug 5 2011 9:42:20
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    {Copy. Aug 04 2011}

    I need anger management advice today.

    I write in more then 80 public forums.

    2-years into this nightmare…
    I recently joined my 4th bb forum.
    Which, I have found to be all about the money they can get from their sponsors.
    They really do not want people sharing DIY because it could hurt their wallets.

    One might ask.
    ?What brought me to conclude that?
    When a horrified and distraught first timer entered and posted desperate for help. I gave the all the 911-help I had to offer.
    (Basic things.
    Like, pack up and get the vacuum.)

    I was told by the host, to stop offering up advice. THAT lead me to conclude. This person does not want people to share DIY. They want the people to visit their sponsors so they can get paid.

    Which, highly irritated me!
    Bedbugs are a horrific ‘epidemic.’!!!! Rapid spread of public education and information, IS KEY~!

    Anyway…To me…
    Public forums are all about freedom of speech.

    I began to exercise my First Amendment right, liberally.
    (Freedom of speech is the freedom to speak freely without censorship. Includes any act of seeking, receiving and imparting information or ideas, regardless of the medium used.)

    Very shook up about bbs eating my family and seeing others like me get pushed to a very long FAQ section.
    When they really needed 911-help.

    As I said previously. I began posting and interacting with great enthusiasm offering up to others all the 911-help that I could.

    I had previously, looked around for rules about opening new topics and found none. There were also no guidelines presented as too, how many words one should limit each post to.

    Therefore, I presumed.
    This was like any other free public forum. As long as, it is all-ages rated material. You are free to post as much content as you like.

    Now…
    In addition to, this horrible struggle with the bbs..

    Someone did not post rules of conduct in said forum, and I am now having compounded confrontational issues with the blog’s host.

    Which, totally sucks!!!
    It is one of the better blogs that I am a member of and I would like to stay.

    ?Just how am I to vent such anger the hosts public chastisement has created inside of me?

    As you well know..
    My chosen coping skill to vent is.
    Through, writing.

    In closing today’s rant.
    I have been taught.
    When one tells a story, in text.
    It’s like, painting for a blind person.
    One needs to describe that painting in almost painful detail so that a blind person can see it in their head.

  12. makesmenuts

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri Aug 5 2011 10:28:32
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    Think of free speech as something you can do as much as you like, but only on public property. For example, you can't picket a store or car dealership on their property if you feel they shafted you, but you can do it on the public sidewalk in front. Internet BBs are privately owned, so the entity that pays the hosting bill is free to censor as they see fit. If you buy your own domain, or even start a blog on one of the many free sites, you can post whatever you like as long as it is not slanderous.

  13. cilecto

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri Aug 5 2011 10:34:19
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    Rosae “Sorry, it is a blog where you can place comments.”

    ?I am confused. ?Do we only blog-post once here or is this a place where we can blog-post comments freely or both?

    If this is not a place where one can blog-post regularly. I need to go somewhere else where everyday-interaction might be more welcome.

    Rosae was referring to the "bad bed bugs" blog.

    "Freedom of speech" is about government's not restricting your rights. It's not an absolute right, hence the quote "it does not give you the right to yell 'Fire!' in a crowded theater". It is not about what you can and can't say in a privately operated forum. And it does not protect you from people responding to your speech with their own.

  14. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri Aug 5 2011 10:41:27
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    Hi,

    One of the reasons why DIY treatments are so difficult is that there are a lot variables involved with bedbug control. I find it hard enough to write a protocol for my clients to follow let alone to encompass all the possible variables.

    The second main reason is that often people need to understand how they became infested in the first place. Understanding this takes time and experience and in my case a few thousand cases until I saw the links and associations.

    If you do DIY approaches you lack experience which is so essential in dealing with the problem quickly and efficiently. In most cases that we take on where DIY solutions have been attempted first the job is a lot harder than if we had of taken it on from the start.

    Its a bit like having to have an operation. You can read all the material on the internet that is available but it does not make you a credible heart surgeon, only experience and years of practice does that.

    The reality is that DIY only really works in light cases in which case its better to teach people to monitor and inspect on a regular basis and avoid where feasible through inspection when you stay away from home.

    I would never say this forum does not support DIY but it is experience and established enough to know its limitations.

    Regards,

    David Cain
    Bed Bugs Limited

    I am happy to answer questions in public but will not reply to message sent directly or via my company / social media. I am here to help everyone and not just one case at a time.

    In accordance with the AUP and FTC I openly disclose my vested interest in Passive Monitors as the inventor and patent holder. Since 2009 they have become an integral part in how we resolve bed bug infestations. I also have a professional relationship with PackTite in that they distribute my product under their own branding. I do not however receive any financial remuneration for any comments I make about pro
  15. NJ-BITES

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri Aug 5 2011 10:42:11
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    makesmenuts - 12 minutes ago  » 
    the entity that pays the hosting bill is free to censor as they see fit.

    Thank you, for clarification

  16. makesmenuts

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri Aug 5 2011 11:20:10
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    You may want to look into a place like Wordpress to start a blog where you can freely say whatever you want. Combine that with some therapeutic posting here that stays within the guidelines. Blogs are great ways to get your feelings out with no editing or moderation.

  17. Nobugsonme

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    Fri Aug 5 2011 12:35:00
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    Rosae - 9 hours ago  » 
    Actually; there is a DIY forum, badbedbugs.com. There everyone can post what has worked for him.
    Sorry, it is a blog where you can place comments.


    Rosae,

    Yes, technically, that's a blog, not a forum where anyone can post and start a new thread (which is what we have here).

    NJ-Bites,

    You said,

    Nobugsonme “Again, I have no problem with people posting once to describe their own DIY protocol.”
    ....

    ?I am confused. ?Do we only blog-post once here or is this a place where we can blog-post comments freely or both?

    If this is not a place where one can blog-post regularly. I need to go somewhere else where everyday-interaction might be more welcome.

    NJ-Bites,

    You are taking my comments out of context.

    Like cilecto, I never told you not to DIY. I don't think I've told anyone that. I have asked you not to give others DIY treatment advice, especially if it is unsolicited. And even if people are asking for it, you may not be in the best position to give it for the reasons outlined above.

    Please read my response again above, carefully.

    I never said you could not post daily. I stated that when the average number of posts per day is 69, from everyone put together, and you are posting an average of 25 per day (not counting the ones which are deleted as repetitive or off-topic), then it is overwhelming for others. It can drown out other voices.

    It seems possible that there should be some middle ground between not being allowed to post once a day (as you are implying) and personally accounting for more than 33% of the average daily posts, many of which are repetitive.

    I have repeatedly communicated with you to try to give examples of where you might think twice before posting. (I gave you specific examples in our private exchanges.)

    For example, you often start new threads to discuss something you've already been discussing. For example, you have started two threads (in four days) in which you're talking about bed bugs in a waterbed.

    Also, you have repeatedly revived threads on old topics.

    You have posted the same or nearly identical messages to multiple threads.

    And you have posted many spammy messages (now deleted) saying "look at my message over here" with a link, over and over. These repetitive messages have for the most part been deleted.

    All of these might be things that everyone does on occasion, but due to the large volume of posts you produced in a short time-frame, it is much more noticeable.

    It's a lot of work to wade through all of the content you're producing, and in my case, a lot of work to decide which items to respond to, which to delete. I appreciate that you want to share and help, but I encourage you to edit yourself, in the sense of choosing what you most want to say, and saying it once.

    That's what I meant in my post above about posting once about the DIY protocols you followed, rather than responding to very many posts by others (most not even asking for DIY advice) by repeating the same. Many of these people had just come on the boards and they do not need to pull out a vacuum cleaner. They need to find out if they really have bed bugs, figure out whether they can get an inspection and proper treatment, and only then consider what would be appropriate for them to do themselves.

    I hope you can see that there are other perspectives than yours on whether people should rush in and start cleaning and treating, and good reasons for these. But when you're the first and loudest voice, it doesn't give people much of a chance to hear other perspectives.

    It's also important to recognize one's own limitations. For example, posting your own (often differing) viewpoints after entomologists like loubugs and EffeCi have already identified a pest, is not necessary and may confuse newcomers who don't know who's who around here.

    I'm sorry if it offends you to ask you to post less and more judiciously, but try to understand the perspective of others and how other people are using the site.

    If you want a space to write anything you want exactly how you want it, starting your own bed bug blog (for example on Wordpress.com) is a great idea. You can put the URL (web address) in your Bedbugger profile and then others can find it and read it.

  18. Nobugsonme

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    Fri Aug 5 2011 12:38:57
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    cilecto - 3 hours ago  » 
    I've rarely told people on the forum to not DIY. Three that come to mind are people attempting their own "thermal", children and people who have done repeated DIY over an extended period and failed. In NJ's case, I even strategized with her(?) on saving her waterbed.
    The amazing thing about this site is how it brings together people struggling with bed bugs with leading industry practitioners, scientists, inventors and entrepreneurs. To make it worth participating in and keep it useful takes a lot of work on the part of the host and volunteers to provide a quality experience. They respond empathetically to people in distress. They support and challenge advice given. If necessary, they will remove posts that offer bad advice. In extreme cases, users have been blocked from posting. All this work has kept this forum relevant (and cited in media) for over four years.
    NJ has yet to cite specifics regarding this site being "anti-DIY".

    Yes, I agree with what cilecto wrote. I also don't tell people not to DIY, and I did not tell NJ-Bites this. My concerns about giving others advice are of a different nature and are stated clearly above.

  19. Nobugsonme

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    Fri Aug 5 2011 13:14:07
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    NJ-BITES - 2 hours ago  » 

    makesmenuts - 12 minutes ago  » 
    the entity that pays the hosting bill is free to censor as they see fit.

    Thank you, for clarification

    As I said to you previously via email,

    ... websites are not spaces in which you have the right to say anything you like. They're privately owned spaces. It's like you're in a cafe. If you are annoying other people, the owner can kick you out without explanation. They can refuse you service. That's how it works.

    Despite this, I do like having a variety of viewpoints on this site and I try to make this a space where you can speak your mind. I have to think of the bigger picture, though, and if others are getting very annoyed, I hear about it and I care about it.

  20. buggyinsocal

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    Fri Aug 5 2011 13:21:48
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    A few points.

    Anyway…To me…
    Public forums are all about freedom of speech.

    I began to exercise my First Amendment right, liberally.
    (Freedom of speech is the freedom to speak freely without censorship. Includes any act of seeking, receiving and imparting information or ideas, regardless of the medium used.)

    1. As Cilecto already pointed out, the First Amendment of the US Constitution protects citizens from having their public speech censored by the state.

    Private institutions have every right to censor private speech.

    The Roman Catholic Church does not have any legal requirement to allow LGBT folks to come in and challenge the church's homilies about homosexuality.

    Someone who thinks Wal-Mart is evil does not have a legal right to protest Wal Mart on Wal Mart's land.

    The Roman Catholic Church cannot stop protesters who are on public land outside their churches, nor can Wal Mart stop protestors on public land near a Wal-Mart.

    Someone who thinks that white supremacy is the way to save the country has the right to protest in public, but not inside an NAACP meeting.

    2. Freedom of speech is not, and was never conceived to be, an absolute right. The SCOTUS has placed limitations on free speech when it hurts others, even in public spaces. Hence the famous case of not being able to yell fire in a crowded theater. Or, you know, prohibiting child pornography given the very real harm it causes to children.

    Please note: I am not comparing NJ Bites's posts to child porn. I am simply pointing out instances in which free speech has been curtailed by the courts.

    Even in instances in which free speech is protected by the state, there may be consequences to speaking freely.

    Every freedom is a right, and sometimes in our conversations about rights, we forget about our responsibilities.

    Yes, I have freedom of speech in public spaces, but that also means I have a responsibility to exercise that right in ways that help the people around me rather than hurting them. There is no legal way to enforce that responsibility, but I continue to labor under the delusion that we have an ethical obligation to attempt to live up to the responsibility end of the bargain.

    (For example, a lot of supporters of Prop 8 have claimed that their financial contributions to the campaign for Prop 8 should be kept confidential or anonymous because they might be harassed if that knowledge becomes public. I cry foul. Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from the consequences of that speech. If you choose to speak out in public--and if the courts decide that contributing money is a form of freedom of speech--then you need to be willing to speak out in public, with all the consequences that come with it.)

    The consequence of choosing to speak freely in a forum is that other people may come along to challenge that speech. Freedom of speech, after all, was encouraged in the US Constitution because the founders believed that the free and competitive exchange of ideas in public was healthy in a democracy.

    Healthy, competitive exchange of ideas means that sometimes when someone exercises a free speech right, someone else will come along to challenge those ideas. In one sense, that's confrontational, but I don't think it's unjustifiably confrontational. Free speech is partly about confrontation. Hopefully, polite and productive confrontation.

    However, in our overly litigious society of today, the biggest curtailment of freedom of speech hasn't come from government censorship. It's come from the chilling effect of people who are afraid of being held liable when someone sues them.

    Many of the rules in this forum exist to protect the forum and its owners (of which I am not one) from being held liable if someone who is overstressed, sleep deprived, and desperate comes along, misreads something, or reads a post full of bad advice, follows those "directions," hurts him or herself or those around that person, and then tries to hold this forum liable.

    It's important to remember that too.

    Very shook up about bbs eating my family and seeing others like me get pushed to a very long FAQ section.
    When they really needed 911-help.

    As I said previously. I began posting and interacting with great enthusiasm offering up to others all the 911-help that I could.

    I had previously, looked around for rules about opening new topics and found none. There were also no guidelines presented as too, how many words one should limit each post to.

    3. Well, there you and I, NJ BITES, disagree.

    I understand that when a lot of people come to the forums, they're in a state of panic.

    It's precisely because they come here in a state of panic that I think sending them off to read the FAQs is important for two major reasons.

    First, very often people in a panic about bed bugs make choices that make the problem harder, of longer duration, and more expensive to treat.

    If I could give just one piece of advice to someone who'd just discovered bed bugs, it's that the first thing you should do is really, fully educate yourself before you do *anything* else because early mistakes up front can make things really difficult in the long run.

    It's okay if you don't agree with that. But if you don't agree with that, when that's kind of the pre-existing ethos of this particular forum, than this particular forum may not be meeting the needs you're using it to meet. In which case, the particular speech that you want to make might be better suited to another venue where the focus is on providing more emotional support and less distanced information.

    I want to be clear; I'm not trying to run you off. I'm drawing on what you've said in your own posts--that writing is a kind of therapy for you. This forum is more focused--or at least my sense is that this forum is more focused on making sure people have access to the best, most accurate, most up to date information about effective bed bug identification and treatment methods.

    My opinion, and my sense of the opinions of the people who were here when I got here who set the tone of the community I came into, is that because so many people are so emotionally distraught and often sleep deprived when they come to us, if anything, the temptation is to be both more cautious and more cautionary and to be more emotionally distanced than may strictly be necessary--in order to increase the chances that sleep deprived, anxious, stressed, and plain old grossed out readers won't misinterpret the posts.

  21. Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri Aug 5 2011 14:32:06
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    The first-amendment right to freedom of speech obviously doesn't prevent someone from setting up their own website that includes and excludes whatever they feel like. On the contrary, it guarantees that they may do so. The principle of freedom of speech, however, counsels that anyone with such a site should not censor arbitrarily. (As far as I've seen, Nobugsonme does not censor arbitrarily.)

    The fundamental difference between government and any other form of power is that government is legitimate. That is, people accept that it's the government, so they obey to a greater extent than can be accounted for just by the threat of penalties. This difference is a check on government. Government needs the cooperation of the governed, if it's to have any hope of getting the potholes fixed and making the trains run on time, and it needs that cooperation far beyond what it can secure by bullying alone. By contrast, a plutocrat or a racketeering operation expects only the cooperation it can extract with the means of persuasion at its disposal. The mob doesn't have to care what people think, but the government does. So we can trust the government further than we can trust other concentrations of power. So, relative to the level of power each has, guarantees of liberty are more needed against other forms of power than against government.

  22. KillerQueen

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri Aug 5 2011 15:37:35
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    Thank God I'm off today!

  23. BBFSTyler

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri Aug 5 2011 16:17:56
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    If a bed bug was reading this, he/she would have died already from lack of bloodflow to the head.
    Thanks for all that you do @NoBugsonme and @Cilecto, many people appreciate you and your continued efforts. Thanks!

  24. cilecto

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri Aug 5 2011 17:11:24
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    Thank everyone who makes this site what it is.

  25. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri Aug 5 2011 18:33:39
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    Yes, I can't say it better than Cilecto. Thanks to everyone who contributes so much to make the site work.

  26. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri Aug 5 2011 18:35:17
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    Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious - 4 hours ago  » 
    The first-amendment right to freedom of speech obviously doesn't prevent someone from setting up their own website that includes and excludes whatever they feel like. On the contrary, it guarantees that they may do so. The principle of freedom of speech, however, counsels that anyone with such a site should not censor arbitrarily. (As far as I've seen, Nobugsonme does not censor arbitrarily.)

    You're right -- I try not to do so arbitrarily, Supercali.

  27. Winston O. Buggy

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri Aug 5 2011 20:50:14
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    Freedom of speech may need to end when it endangers innocent others.

  28. newtactics

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri Aug 5 2011 21:52:09
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    average of 69 posts a day?

    think the dna thread will be bolstering that average for a few days

  29. Impfac

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Thu Aug 18 2011 5:34:28
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    The only anti-diy I've noticed is that many threads about de involve criticism about how its being used, sometimes including snarky jibes like save this post to show your doctor for when you have respiratory problems.

    I understand why people are tired of people using insane amounts of de and only coming to the forum after the fact without reading the faq.

    I only bring it up because in one thread someone had said they were going to post a real how to video for de but I never saw that materialize. Criticizing people for using it improperly and discouraging them from doing so isn't going to stop anyone: a professional showing proper safe technique, equipment, etc would be more helpful.

    Was this video ever made?


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