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Which would YOU Choose?

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  1. P Bello

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Feb 6 2015 10:39:27
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    Which Would YOU Choose?

    Here’s the scenario folks: You have a confirmed case of bed bugs in your home or apartment and you’re looking to choose between two pest professionals. Both have over ten years of experience. Money is not an issue because you can afford either of them, the price, the products applied and the warranty is the same. Below is a description of information and the services to be rendered from each.

    Pest Pro A:
    Pest Pro A strikes you as confident and knowledgeable as he describes his bed bug services and answers your questions. He tells you that he conducts an inspection and treats your home as his team works in your home. . They use a vacuum, a steamer and apply residual products. He states that he applies his treatment methodologies where his years of experience and knowledge indicate that they are needed. For example, he tells you that he will usually find the majority of bed bugs on your bed so, it may not be necessary for his team to vacuum, steam or apply pesticides where not needed to other places in your home and that this other work is unnecessary. After the initial inspection he tells you that he only found live bed bugs on your bed so, he’s only going to treat your bed.

    Pest Pro B:
    Pest Pro B strikes you as confident and knowledgeable as he describes his bed bug services and answers your questions. He tells you that he conducts an inspection and treats your home as his team works within your home. They use a vacuum, a steamer and apply residual products. He states that he applies his treatment methodologies where his years of experience and knowledge indicate that they are needed. He stresses a thorough and no stone goes unturned type of approach. He further explains that he will usually find the majority of bed bugs on your bed but that because it is possible for bed bugs to be found in places other than your bed, that his team finds it necessary to be thorough and inspect and treat all the known and possible harborage (hiding places) where bed bugs may be found in your home. His team will inspect and treat areas such as the entire bed frame, the head & foot board, the night stand, dressers, sofas, upholstered chairs, utility penetrations, outlets and other such places. After the initial inspection he tells you he only found live bed bugs on your bed but that he is going to treat your mattress, box spring but also your bed frame, head board, foot board, night stand, dressers, sofas, upholstered chairs, utility penetrations, outlets and other such places because he does not want to leave any stone unturned risking the possibility of even one stray bed bug or egg left behind.

    As bed bug service consumer, please tell us which YOU would choose and why?

  2. Richard56

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Feb 6 2015 11:06:14
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    I would choose "A" if you throw in the Brooklyn bridge toll booth concession.

    But seriously, I'm assuming both A and B offer follow-up treatments? Because while B obviously offers a more comprehensive service, his inference that he will not leave anything behind after only one treatment may be over promise.

    Richard

  3. AbsolutelyFreaking

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Feb 6 2015 12:03:11
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    Richard56 brings up a valid point . . . are retreatment(s) (or at least a follow-up inspection) included in the price/treatment plan?

    . . . However, I didn't read it as he did (meaning that PCO B is claiming/ guaranteeing that he is going to get all bed bugs in one treatment, I merely read it that PCO B is way more thorough than PCO A) and since that information was not included in the information given . . .

    my answer is . . . This is a trick question, right?!

    Are you really asking which anyone would pick . . . A PCO that is only going to treat my bed in a confirmed bed bug infestation because he didn't "see" any activity anywhere else . . . or a PCO that is going to treat everything (including my sofa where it's usually difficult to locate bed bug or eggs (just ask robinsmom!)) . . .

    . . . well for my money I'm going with the PCO that is more thorough and complete in his approach!

  4. Richard56

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Feb 6 2015 12:15:24
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    AF: my answer is . . . This is a trick question, right?!
    -----
    Trick or rhetorical but something tells me that we shall soon find out in spades:)

  5. AnxiousInA2

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Feb 6 2015 18:48:59
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    I'd choose B. I think it is important to have someone who understands that bed bugs aren't necessarily only in your bed and that it is beneficial to do a thorough inspection of all other possible areas where the bugs could be harboring. I agree with the others, though, that I'd want to make sure there was a guarantee of some sort and that there would be a follow up visit included.

    Also, as far as treating everything, after only finding bugs on the bed...I'd be ok with treating the whole bed area with steaming, vacuuming, and residual chemicals. If the PCO didn't find evidence (fecal, cast skins, or live bugs) in the other locations I don't know if I'd want them spraying with pesticides everywhere but I'd definitely be ok with steaming and vacuuming those areas as a precaution. Again, I'd want to have a follow up visit included.

  6. hypervigilant

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Feb 6 2015 23:20:22
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    Knowing that bed bugs can sometimes hide really well and are difficult to find, I might believe that PCO A could possibly be right in that it's only in the bed area, but I would probably feel more psychologically reassured with PCO B's approach. It's sort of a "well it can't hurt" attitude.

  7. robinsmom

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Sat Feb 7 2015 0:28:37
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    B. No bed bug left unturned sounds like this guy really gets his kicks outta killing the dratted things, but moreover, understands how bb work. Might not be how the pros here see it but Id want somebody who doesn't dismiss the possibility they might be somewhere he just hasn't found them.

    Goes to show it might be a good idea to interview pcos. I was forced to hire mine after my landlord picked them then walked away when it came time to pay, and I panicked.

    I'm not an expert just a dumb struggling bed bugger like every body else.
  8. Richard56

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Sat Feb 7 2015 11:42:03
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    PB: Simply read, choose and tell us why you chose what you did.
    -----------------------
    OK. I'll bite (forgive the term), because I hate waiting so long for the other shoe to drop.

    I would go with "B" . Because even though live bugs were only found on the bed, a proper treatment should take into account and therefore treat all reasonable potential harborage areas (for all stages of bugs and eggs) such as the bed frame, head board, foot board, night stand, etc.

    Now I will get out of the way of the dropping shoe!

    Richard

  9. robinsmom

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Sat Feb 7 2015 11:47:13
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    B. Still B. Why? Because to catch "most" isn't good enough. (For me.) Period.

  10. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Sat Feb 7 2015 12:19:21
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    Posts referencing an earlier adult and OT tread were deleted. We're trying to keep threads on topic and if you want to have an adult/OT topic, that's fine but please start a new one and label properly. Thanks!

    I started and run the site but am "not an expert."
  11. WhatBugs

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Sat Feb 7 2015 12:32:37
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    Neither as they are both using residual pesticides (and at that, on the bed were I sleep). Then, what if the BB's are resistant to the particular pesticide being used?

    CimeXa as a residual, that is OK as it is non-toxic. Then a few passive monitors made out of corrugated cardboard to pick up any stragglers. Vacuuming works, BTDT, if I had a steamer that too would have been used.

    WhatBugs?

  12. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Sat Feb 7 2015 12:40:03
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    I am also a neither mainly because I have read the medical papers that link indoor structural pesticide applications to the deelopment of cancer and child hood brain tumors. The main ones are associated with Dr Elizabeth Milne in California but I also have my own unpublished data that shows UK cancer hot spots show a strong correlation to bedbug infestations.

    It was after all the main reason for us going 100% green because when it comes to people's health even the lowest of risks is not acceptable, especially when you are trying to help people resolve one problem.

    David Cain
    Bed Bugs Limited

    I am happy to answer questions in public but will not reply to message sent directly or via my company / social media. I am here to help everyone and not just one case at a time.

    In accordance with the AUP and FTC I openly disclose my vested interest in Passive Monitors as the inventor and patent holder. Since 2009 they have become an integral part in how we resolve bed bug infestations. I also have a professional relationship with PackTite in that they distribute my product under their own branding. I do not however receive any financial remuneration for any comments I make about pro
  13. Richard56

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Sat Feb 7 2015 13:01:44
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    WB: Neither as they are both using residual pesticides (and at that, on the bed were I sleep).
    -------------------------------
    I don't think any mention was made of using residual products on the bed. The statement was that he "apply(s) residual products" without being specific where. Also, the word "pesticide" was not used in Paul's hypothetical, and I imagine that residual products does not necessarily mean pesticides and could very well include solely natural products like DE, although based on Paul's previous posts I know he does use pesticides, although not sure in all cases...so....er,,,

    ...looks like the other shoe is starting to drop and it isn't Paul's but something tells me his shoe isn't far behind

    Richard

  14. P Bello

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Sat Feb 7 2015 23:16:36
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    Clarification: please add the following factors to the scenario.

    > As the consumer/customer, you have the choice of traditional or green type products applied in your home.

    > No pesticide products are applied to any surfaces that are normally contacted by humans in the normal course of their daily lives.

    pjb

  15. robinsmom

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Sun Feb 8 2015 4:36:15
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    My answer to that is another question or two. (As a consumer I would want clarification).
    1. By "green" does that include safer pesticides such as Temprid SC, or only steam/dust/Cirkil or heat/Vikane, etc?
    2. As a consumer I would ask to see proof which works better.

    As a consumer with a pet I need to take safety into consideration. If I didn't--and cost was not an issue, Id go with whatever gave best results for my dwelling type.

  16. P Bello

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Sun Feb 8 2015 13:17:46
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    Further clarification:

    > The products applied, should not be an issue; As the consumer, you have the choice in which products are applied if this is a concern to you.

    > Any products applied are applied in compliance with label directions and local state regulations by licensed applicators in your state.

    > Warranties provided are similar from both service providers and the service includes a six month warranty.

    pjb

  17. P Bello

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Tue Feb 10 2015 8:51:42
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    Hmmm . . .

    OK, so an explanation is due for this Which Would You Choose topic.

    Here's why I would have expected most people to choose B and that B would have been the correct choice based upon my education, experience and observation of all things bed bugs here in the US:

    a. Simply stated pro B is using a more thorough approach and, as such, the consumer would be purchasing more service for the same price. Thanks to those who saw this simple scenario as presented and chose B.

    b. At any bed bug infestation no one can tell with 100% certainty that they can find 100% of the bed bugs or eggs present.

    c. The downside risk of missing any bed bugs likely results in continued bites and an ongoing infestation. Since this is reasonably so, no matter the warranty offered for subsequent services, it is unwise for a consumer to knowingly accept this risk of ongoing bed bugs.

    d. Despite that a Bed Bug Advanced Seminar attendee who was artistically talented created a poster dubbing me "The Bed Bug Whisperer" about four years ago, the truth of the matter is that in my opinion there are no bed bug whisperers, no bed bug magicians, no bed bug gurus and no bed bug shortcuts. The math is rather simple here folks: bed bugs are pests with known biology and behavior. Pest management efforts consider the known biology and behavior in conjunction with the pertinent parameters at the account location to eliminate them. Overall, from 50,000 feet it's rather simple. While there's no requirement to trust me, after all, I'm just one bug guy; my recommendation to folks is to hire the most experienced and competent pest pro that will do a thorough job that they can to handle their bed bug problem if they are able to afford this service.

    Please note that this concept is not new nor is it unique to just bed bugs either. For example, just hours ago I provided expert testimony in a case where the consumer chose between whole house treatment or a "spot treatment". Both treatment options were offered by the same pro. The "spot treatment" was about 1/10th of the cost of the entire house treatment. The pro identified the area to be treated as the only problem area of the house. Four years later, the repair costs to remediate and restore this home are equivalent to approximately 80% of the home's total value.

    How did this happen? Well, problematic insects are "crypto-biotic". It is difficult at best to find all the pests all the time and consumers don't want pest pros tearing their homes apart to find every last critter that may be hiding in their house. With bed bugs, the fact that they can hide and deposit eggs in various inaccessible areas which may not be detected is especially problematic. As such, why risk that any are missed which can be avoided by simply being more thorough.

    Hope this helps, have a great day ! pjb

  18. BigDummy

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Tue Feb 10 2015 8:57:02
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    80%???
    Subterranean termites?

  19. P Bello

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Tue Feb 10 2015 9:00:22
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    No, drywoods which, as you may know, manifest their damage at a significantly slower/reduced rate comparatively. However, nearly every wall of this structure was involved and which was somehow "missed".

    BTW, how's you BB situation going on there ???

    pjb

  20. Richard56

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Tue Feb 10 2015 9:46:33
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    Thanks. Paul. I picked "B", so no disagreement, but a few related thoughts/questions for you or any of the pros --

    (1) A well-known PCO who has his own Internet TV Channel once said that he didn't feel it necessary in most cases for the usual (empty-the-closets/drawers-and wash dry/clean everything) prep. His position was that extensive prep can put an undue burden on the homeowner (not to mention the possibility of spreading the infection) and moreover, the possibility of finding bed bugs in clothes hanging in the closet is fairly remote. So, his approach is to leave those clothes alone, and only treat the closets if an inspection warrants or if the initial one or two treatments are unsuccessful. Wondering what the pros here think.

    (2) I've read, and I believe at least one well respected pro here has stated that 80% of the problem can be found in the bed area, but the other 20% are the most difficult to find, and therefore the comprehensive treatments.

    For this hypothetical, let's assume that books and some electronic items are in the other 20%. We can even throw in the clothes hanging in the closet from the previous example.

    Is it really necessary to treat books and electronics (DDVP strips, heat, rag-in-bag) etc, or (assuming a person in the bed) won't any bugs in them come out to feed every 3-4 days to feed and therefore be eliminated through residual pesticides on their way to the bed? Same thing with the clothes. If indeed, there are bugs in the clothes, won't those bugs also leave the clothes and come out to feed every 3-4 days and therefore also be eliminated? Same concept I would assume applies with the eggs after they hatch in 6-10 days.

    Thanks for any help.

    Richard

  21. BigDummy

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Tue Feb 10 2015 10:06:24
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    P Bello - 1 hour ago  » 

    BTW, how's you BB situation going on there ???
    pjb

    Pretty good these past few months. Still working out the kinks on the electronics side of my bed bug box, it runs every day and the bits that I cobbled together aren't quite the quality that I want, but I'll find the right parts eventually. It's been up and running for over two years now and the amount of calls I get are significantly lower.

  22. P Bello

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Tue Feb 10 2015 10:36:09
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    Dear Richard,

    Firstly, it's tough to quote absolutes when dealing with nature due to the inherent variability. While there is published research that states as much as 95% of the bed bug activity is associated with the bed, in the filed we find bed bugs in various places due to the "local conditions" within the infested home. As such, your mileage may vary !

    What we do know as professionals are the usual places that we normally find bed bugs and eggs. My tack is that such places should not be skipped or missed during inspection and treatment as doing so would not be a thorough approach.

    We also need to consider, within reason, the likelihood that there are bed bugs present in the "non-primary" locations, such as some of the areas you suggest above, as well.

    While some folks might assert that every pro has his or her own opinion and/or there are no "right or wrong" answers, the truth of the matter is that we do know what we know and we need to apply this knowledge to the problem at hand in a logical and reasonable fashion. I'm sorry if this reads like "double talk" or a non-answer at this point.

    In so doing, we should be applying reasonable and cost effective solutions to address those areas and items in question. For example:

    > Could bed bugs be hiding in clothing in the closet? Yes, this is possible but, we should consider the actual likelihood of same and our entomologically sound considerations should also assist us in determining a proper action to adequately address this concern. Make sense? Allow further explanation.

    If this was a full blown bed bug ground zero type infestation then the actions would likely be different than if a thorough inspection reveled the presence of say less than ten bed bugs found in total. However, does this mean that all the known hiding places are ignored? Nope!

    > Regarding your other questions on clothing, books and electronics:
    In my view we need to implement cost effective measures and such measures need to impact the consumer as little as possible as long as it makes entomological sense. However, the pest pro is obligated to weigh the inherent risks and communicate his recommendations to the consumer such that informed decisions may be made. Do we need to treat all these items as you asked? The answer is; it depends. And, it depends upon the conditions and parameters at the location. Remember that we need to consider the possibilities, the likelihood and what's most reasonable prior to making such decisions.

    OK?

    Thanks for the questions, have a great day ! pjb

  23. P Bello

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Tue Feb 10 2015 10:36:41
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    BD, sounds like things are working out which is good to hear !

    pjb

  24. Winston O. Buggy

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Tue Feb 10 2015 13:04:27
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    Neither as no one mentions any follow up inspection or service.

  25. P Bello

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Wed Feb 11 2015 8:57:07
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    The both offer the same warranty so there are follow ups.

    pjb

  26. robinsmom

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Wed Feb 11 2015 9:14:47
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    Do these scenarios presume both pcos show proof of what they found, in the areas the say they found it?


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