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UPDATE: 1st Heat Treatment failed!!

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  1. futureBBmom

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Fri Jul 22 2011 19:51:28
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    Yup, it failed! I noticed a couple very familiar bites a week after treatment. Then finally I found newly hatched bed bugs. SO TINY it's scary! So apparently some eggs survived. Now what? I don't know yet.

  2. buggyinsocal

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Fri Jul 22 2011 20:04:48
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    1. Save the bugs you found. You'll need to have them conclusively IDed.

    2. Call your PCO and tell them what you've found.

    3. Start thinking about ways to rule out possible reinfestation sources.

  3. jrbtnyc

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Fri Jul 22 2011 21:38:19
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    Dang, sorry to hear your heat treatment didn't work sufficiently to remove all stages of all bed bugs.

    Here's your prior thread entitled...

    > My heat treatment is done! It went great!
    > (7 posts)

    http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/my-heat-treatment-is-done-it-went-great

    ...so people can re-familiarize with your case.

    Heat treatments have a very good reputation of being effective in one try so I think many readers here on bedbugger.com will indeed want to hear whether your thermal company can figure out why they failed in the mission; also whether they'll re-treat for free, and soon, as one would presume they ought to do and correct whatever error happened the first time; then you can report whether the company learned something from your case which should become general knowledge so heat treatments everywhere can benefit from it (that's how we "make progress").

  4. PestSupplyWholesale

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Wed Jul 27 2011 16:29:38
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    You need to get your overall temperature at every point of the house at/above 106 degrees.
    113 degrees is the optimum temp that will eradicate bedbugs in less than an hour.
    Where people fail is that they do not circulate the heat evenly, and do not combine treatment methods. Proper prep is essential. Lots of ways to beat bed bugs but extreme attention to detail is absolutely required! Combine the heat with some dust in the wall outlets and where bed slats meet, etc. Keep your bed frame 1' from the wall. Bed bugs cannot climb smooth surfaces, and they cannot jump or fly. They climb. Thats it.

  5. PestSupplyWholesale

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Thu Jul 28 2011 9:19:25
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    Using a combination of treatments when fighting bedbugs is essential. The more different methods you combine, the more successful you will be. Also, for immediate relief, do your mattress immediately with pesticide around the seams then seal in a rated mattress cover, dust the bedrails and all joints and corners. Move your bed at least 1" from the wall, and also move your mattress into a centered position between headboard and footboard. If you have a wooden bed frame, dust around the legs. Spray all backsides of furniture with bed bug labeled chemicals and dust all hidden areas like wall outlets, etc. All clothing and bedding, and drapes must be removed prior to treatment, washed, and dried at high heat and cannot be brought back in until all other treatment is complete. [admin note: invitation to visit business deleted]

  6. djames1921

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Thu Jul 28 2011 9:38:10
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    113 for an hour is no good, recent heat studies have shown 118 takes an hour and a half, 120 an hour. You are right on with the need to circulate heat evenly, cool spots will become survival spaces where the bed bugs will happily hang out comfortably.

  7. PestSupplyWholesale

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Thu Jul 28 2011 9:43:24
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    I have scientific data to back up my statements, and training by an entemologist in the business for over 40 years. My statement is factual.

  8. spideyjg

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Thu Jul 28 2011 10:06:17
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    113 is the starting point of thermal death. In the old literature that was established. New studies may have further refined the points and times

    David makes the Packtite and I trust he is keeping his finger to the pulse of any thermal studies to keep his product up to snuff.

    Most older data says go for 140 to ensure eradication.

    Jim

  9. PestSupplyWholesale

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Thu Jul 28 2011 10:12:52
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    Yeah, you can burn the house down at 140.
    Look at some of the more recent studies by actual experts in the bed bug areas.
    I got my training by pros in this area, and not by those trying to sell something.
    University of South Florida studies, and and independent entemologist with 40+ years experience.
    I'll settle for that data as being accurate.

  10. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Thu Jul 28 2011 13:49:44
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    PestSupplyWholesale - 21 hours ago  » 
    You need to get your overall temperature at every point of the house at/above 106 degrees.

    I'm not a heat expert but I do know this is below the temperature needed to kill bed bugs.

    If someone came here to complain that their heat treatment failed, then this is not helpful advice. Are you promoting DIY for heat treatment, PestSupplyWholesale? If so, that is a really bad idea.

    I started and run the site but am "not an expert."
  11. jrbtnyc

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Thu Jul 28 2011 16:34:37
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    PestSupplyWholesale - 6 hours ago  » 
    Yeah, you can burn the house down at 140.
    Look at some of the more recent studies by actual experts in the bed bug areas.
    I got my training by pros in this area, and not by those trying to sell something.
    University of South Florida studies, and and independent entemologist with 40+ years experience.
    I'll settle for that data as being accurate.

    Speaking of accuracy...it's spelled entOmologist.

  12. futureBBmom

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Thu Jul 28 2011 17:15:59
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    There isn't a way that we re-infested ourselves because we haven't been anywhere, bought anything, or had anyone over. Yes they are going to heat treat us again for free. But right now we are trying to figure out what went wrong so that we don't fail again.

    So we do not know yet why the treatment failed. My house is very old and it has a lot of uniquely designed ceilings. So one of these domed ceilings is a suspect right now. One of the reasons I went straight for heat instead of chemicals is because of the way this house is designed. Domed ceilings, lots of wood detailing, etc. There is no way chemical treatments could get into every little nook and cranny here. These ceilings are one of the things that attracted us to this house, but now this attraction might have become the problem.

  13. Zilver

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Thu Jul 28 2011 17:18:42
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    Come on you guys, Don´t start picking on each other. Fact is researcher sometimes come up with different numbers, so try to keep it constructive, ok?

    Just look at the discussion around how long different stuffs needs to be in a freezer and what it takes to make it an effective treatment. Potter and others initial research gave very vague numbers, and pointed it out as a possible solution, especially for some "hard to heattreat-stuff", but sayingfar more research was needed.
    Now some of them has done more research , and i.ex Richard that is active on this site , shows how it can be used for clothes etc and seems somewhat positive. Still, also he points out it´s hard to know exact treatmentstimes for different materials as we need more studies to be more certain .

    Not saying heat is one of the areas you see a lot of different numbers. Here instead the positive thing is lots of research has been done booth on killtime, killtemps and methods! Very good!

    Still some differences may be possible I guess, but with so much research that is being done on heat and killtemperatures, I think that if you checked I´m sure you can find a recent study, researchpaper etc to get a definit answer, one you can agree on!!!

    Sorry, but you make me a little nervous hahaha ...as we need every active professional and skilled person on bedbugs we can get here! SO, please keep it friendly , and don´t start picking on each other!

  14. jrbtnyc

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Thu Jul 28 2011 17:32:37
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    PestSupplyWholesale - 1 day ago  » 
    ... Bed bugs cannot climb smooth surfaces...

    Check out...

    http://bedbugger.com/2011/03/24/yes-bed-bugs-can-climb-up-glass-surfaces .

  15. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Thu Jul 28 2011 17:35:18
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    Zilver - 14 minutes ago  » 
    Come on you guys, Don´t start picking on each other. Fact is researcher sometimes come up with different numbers, so try to keep it constructive, ok?

    Sorry, Zilver, but when someone claiming to be an expert on heat treatment states a number (106F) which is far too low for structural heat treatment, it is our ethical duty to challenge that. There's enough misinformation around the internet.

  16. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Thu Jul 28 2011 17:38:18
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    futureBBmom - 20 minutes ago  » 
    There isn't a way that we re-infested ourselves because we haven't been anywhere, bought anything, or had anyone over. Yes they are going to heat treat us again for free. But right now we are trying to figure out what went wrong so that we don't fail again.

    Hi futureBBMom, just to cover all the bases, someone recently discovered they were reinfesting themselves from their own car, and others have had the issue at work without knowing. Just mentioning that so you can rule everything out.

    Look at your service contract. Did you have a warranty? Have you contacted the service provider and told them about the persisting problem?

  17. Zilver

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Thu Jul 28 2011 18:06:31
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    Nobugsonme - 24 minutes ago  » 

    Zilver - 14 minutes ago  » 
    Come on you guys, Don´t start picking on each other. Fact is researcher sometimes come up with different numbers, so try to keep it constructive, ok?

    Sorry, Zilver, but when someone claiming to be an expert on heat treatment states a number (106F) which is far too low for structural heat treatment, it is our ethical duty to challenge that. There's enough misinformation around the internet.

    Yep, I´m ok with that. Pestsypplywholesale seems to have some work to do on updating his facts. But actually It was as much about picking on the spelling when I reacted.

    "Speaking of accuracy...it's spelled entOmologist."

    I just saw it taking a turn down the wrong road, and not giving so much of constructive arguments to the discussion if we go down that road

    But of course you are right to challenge, actually, I EVEN EXPECT YOU TO CHALLENGE FACTS BEING WRONG !

  18. tiredinithaca

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Thu Jul 28 2011 19:39:25
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    Actually the discussion about heat is very interesting... Can I ask for some clarification? When djames1921 says " 118 takes an hour and a half, 120 an hour," is that because it takes an hour at 120 degrees to heat through spaces and cracks completely, or can a bed bug survive for an hour when surrounded by air at 120 degrees?

  19. djames1921

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Thu Jul 28 2011 20:04:51
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    Pestsupplywholesale,

    Apologies if I came across as rude, but your heat numbers are off. Bed bugs will die at 113 but as the recently released npma standards for bed bugs state, it takes 7 hours, check the appendix

    http://www.bedbugbmps.org/best-practices

    We have also run hundreds of heat tests with our product and with actual bed bugs and pulled them out alive when they were exposed to temps around 113 f. At 106f, they barely react. Also, 140 f won't burn down anything, my car the other day in the sun was 154 f on the dash and my health club sauna runs in the 180's f. Please don't take this the wrong way as there is a lot of old data out there that is confusing, the only reason I know these numbers and run these tests is I sell a product that depends on heat so I'm obligated to be a temp geek. In my opinion this site could always use new insights from new people so stick around and have fun with us.

  20. djames1921

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Thu Jul 28 2011 20:27:56
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    Tiredinithaca,

    Bed bugs and their eggs will die in about 40 minutes when exposed to 120 F, we always give the 120 F for an hour to make sure our customers are getting to temp everywhere in the unit. At 118 F, they need to be exposed to this temp for an hour and a half to kill all life stages. It is very important to make sure all areas get exposed to this temp, meaning, you cannot have cool spots or cool areas where they can seek refuge, because they will find those spots and survive. So yes, the numbers reflect exposure time to actual temp.

  21. spideyjg

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Thu Jul 28 2011 22:37:53
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    PSW,

    As David pointed out he has to be a temp geek due to the product he produces. David has been around here 3 years and has never been anything except a scholar and a gent.

    Stick around and by all means if something is posted you have seen a study contradicting, post the proper info and a link to the study.

    Jim

  22. Sleepless in NYC

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Thu Jul 28 2011 23:04:32
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    djames1921 - 2 hours ago  » 
    Tiredinithaca,
    Bed bugs and their eggs will die in about 40 minutes when exposed to 120 F, we always give the 120 F for an hour to make sure our customers are getting to temp everywhere in the unit. At 118 F, they need to be exposed to this temp for an hour and a half to kill all life stages. It is very important to make sure all areas get exposed to this temp, meaning, you cannot have cool spots or cool areas where they can seek refuge, because they will find those spots and survive. So yes, the numbers reflect exposure time to actual temp.

    Hi David,

    Thanks for all of your helpful posts. Would you happen to know the time it would take to kill all stages of bbs, at 125 degrees, 130 degrees, 135 degrees , 140, 145, 150 degrees?

    Thanks in advance for your input.

  23. djames1921

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Fri Jul 29 2011 8:29:55
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    Recent studies that have been done and were included in the NPMA guidelines state that at 122 F (and higher) it only takes a few minutes to kill all life stages. PLEASE USE THIS INFO WITH EXTREME CAUTION! For our product, if you are in the 120's we would still recommend holding it there for an hour. By doing this, you eliminate any chance that any hard to heat areas where you might not be measuring temps actually get to temperature. This is also why many whole house heat treatment providers will keep the structure at 135 F for 5-6 hours, everywhere needs to be this hot, not just most places you are treating, but every single place. This is bed bugs we are talking about afterall, so err on the side of caution and give those little so and so's no chance for survival. Cool spots will be detected and found by these guys so make sure none exist.

  24. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Fri Jul 29 2011 16:53:28
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    And given the context of the original question, it might be good to remind folks here that structural heat treatment of a home is absolutely not a Do It Yourself job.

    Only skilled, experienced professionals with the appropriate equipment and knowledge should be treating a home with heat. People have tried DIY heat treatments and have burned their homes down. Others have gone to a lot of trouble and expense of setting up a heat system only to find bed bugs survived.

    Do go crazy with your Packtite, but please leave treating your home with heat to experienced pros! Futurebbmom, please let us know what happens with your situation. I hope the company will be able to make this right.

  25. NJ-BITES

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Fri Jul 29 2011 18:19:43
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    Don't feel bad...

    I haven't seen anything for about a year and here I go again.
    GOOD THING I NEVER UNPACKED FULLY

    This video shows you the number ONE tool in my BB war weapons arsenal.

    [+] Embed the videoGet the Video Widget

    The best approach is to learn to do it yourself.

    Please, see my post titled: BED BUGS IN A WATERBED

    These are videos I watched that did help me.
    http://www.youtube.com/user/BedBugCentralTV

  26. cilecto

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Fri Jul 29 2011 19:10:46
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    NJ. This thread is about problems with "thermal" treatment of a whole house. Did you have thermal treatment done on your home (as opposed to heating of specific objects and surfaces)?

    Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night...
    - Psalms 91:5-7

    (Not an pro)
  27. insomniac78

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Mon Oct 15 2012 10:38:52
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    Heat treatment performed, and me and my daughter each saw one new bite on our hands about 4 days later. PCO stated that because he used chemical pretreat and heat, that the bugs would be on their way to the graveyard soon anyway. I will wait a few more days before I demand a re-treatment! I am still skeptical.

  28. theyareoutthere

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Mon Oct 15 2012 20:26:55
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    This is an old post, but often the warranty will require evidence (a bug) vs. bites since you can have bite reactions up to several weeks after your last bite (there's a delay).

    Good luck!

    They
    Are
    Out
    There
    = TAOT
  29. Blood-bug

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Nov 22 2013 17:27:31
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    To put things into perspective regarding temperatures involved in heat treatment of bed bugs.
    Human body temperature is 98F
    Room temperature is 70F
    Boiling water is 212F
    A sauna can be upwards of 158F
    Wood will spontaneously ignite at 570F
    140F is a long way from burning anything.
    Kill times and temperatures thrown back and forth are taken from scientific studies carried out in totally controlled environments.
    In the real world high temperatures in a home environment will certainly exceed professed kill temperatures.

  30. donewbugs

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Fri Dec 12 2014 12:44:16
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    Any updates on this? I am having my heat treatment tmrw, im so worried it wont work. $1400

  31. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Fri Dec 12 2014 15:57:45
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    donewbugs - 3 hours ago  » 
    Any updates on this? I am having my heat treatment tmrw, im so worried it wont work. $1400

    This thread hasn't been updated in a year so it's unlikely the writer will see your question.

    My response in your other thread suggests how to find more threads about heat or thermal treatments.

    Note also that whether the company uses the term "thermal" may tell you something about their methods. I believe the term "thermal" is mostly used by companies employing Temp Air technologies, though I am not an expert.

  32. donewbugs

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Fri Dec 12 2014 16:56:15
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    Nobugsonme - 57 minutes ago  » 

    donewbugs - 3 hours ago  » 
    Any updates on this? I am having my heat treatment tmrw, im so worried it wont work. $1400

    This thread hasn't been updated in a year so it's unlikely the writer will see your question.
    My response in your other thread suggests how to find more threads about heat or thermal treatments.
    Note also that whether the company uses the term "thermal" may tell you something about their methods. I believe the term "thermal" is mostly used by companies employing Temp Air technologies, though I am not an expert.

    Thanks for your help, im new to all this. Ive actually never been involved in a forum.


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