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Question from Dawn

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  1. (deleted)

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    Posted 12 years ago
    Fri May 11 2007 10:39:53
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    is it acceptable that the pest control company is not treating the kitchen or the bathroom? does that sound like it still means they know what they are doing? again, if anyone is familiar with stern environmental in new jersey, i would truly appreciate your input.

  2. dawnsimonds

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    Posted 12 years ago
    Fri May 11 2007 11:15:38
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    thanks to nomo for helping me get started on posting. i'm wondering if anyone is familiar with stern environmental in secaucus, new jersey. they are coming to help with my bed bug problem and i'm wondering if they are a reputable firm.

  3. Bugalina

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    Posted 12 years ago
    Fri May 11 2007 11:21:57
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    Dawn..I posted my reply on the Home page but thank you nomo for directing dawn here.....In the house where the bed bugs originally showed up, I actually saw three live bugs....One was scampering ( fast) into a crack in the wooden floor in the hallway, the other was on my white shower curtain, and the most horrific experience was the one my husband found crawling up the back of my white tee shirt...this was in the Kitchen !! All of these sightings were in the Daytime, so, bed bugs do come out in the daytime,, they do crawl VERY FAST, and they will attempt to Hitchhike on your body.....AND They can be found in the Kitchen, Baths, and Hallways.....so I am a firm believer in treating the entire living space.... ps...the reason I think they were coming out in the daytime was because I had really soaked the house with pesticides , my husband had moved out ( he was there helping me move things out) and I was sleeping in a safezoned area, so I think the bastards got bold because they were starving...the one my husband took off my back was fairly large but had no blood in it...

  4. Bugalina

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    Posted 12 years ago
    Fri May 11 2007 11:25:48
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    Dawn...Stern is probably a good PCO...but its up to you to make certain they do the best job possible for you....read them what I said above and get their response to it...tell them that people say they have sited bed bugs in kitchens and bathrooms...I personally think that if you don't treat the entire place it gives the bugs a chance to go somewhere where pesticides have not been put down...I would feel more comfortable if my entire place was treated...esp. in areas that attach to other apts...like pipe chases and heating registers and electrical outlets..

  5. dawnsimonds

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    Posted 12 years ago
    Fri May 11 2007 11:40:31
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    thanks for your input. i truly appreciate it. i actually haven't seen ANY bugs at all. is this a good sign? to be completely honest, i haven't seen any feces at all either. the only thing i have seen is little blood spotting on the sheets and the dog barking at the two local areas in my bedroom. like i said, he didn't bark in any other room in the house. could it be that it's still a small infestation in this case?

  6. Bugalina

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    Posted 12 years ago
    Fri May 11 2007 12:16:12
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    But..You do have bites???? I am assuming ???

  7. dawnsimonds

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    Posted 12 years ago
    Fri May 11 2007 12:26:07
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    here is the issue. i believe i am immune to the bites. the only indication we had is the dog barking at the two spots in my room and little tiny blood spots on the sheets.

  8. willow-the-wisp

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    Posted 12 years ago
    Fri May 11 2007 12:41:05
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    Hi Dawn welcome to the rooms.
    Yes it COULD be a small infestation now and in order to KEEP it small or even smaller (as in no bed bugs) make sure the Kitchen and the bathroom are sprayed.

    I'm going to lay it on the line here Dawn--not just aimed at you but at all PCO's and all self-treaters:

    I think you ALL need to start way outside the infested area and work inward not the other way around. This includes inspection and treatment.
    You'd need to think about it for a minute...
    Even checking can spread an infestation.
    Sure ... checking the bed first is a good idea ... but as soon as you find ANY evidence I feel you could go into the next room and start outside and work inward.

    Please spray Dawn's ENTIRE DWELLING. Start on ALL of the outside walls of the house and work inward. Thus ... bed bugs are more likely trapped in the middle and contained.

    In other words ... If Dawn's bedroom is connected to another unit--of course that wall and area would be most important to spray--but then.. after spraying all bedroom walls and articles please consider going outside the bedroom and do all other outside walls and "hot
    spots. Do all the connecting walls, pipes outlets FIRST!
    Bed bugs survive and get away and thus spread and by adopting this sort of a method you will reduce this spreading by an immense proportion. Bed bugs live in, and traverse through walls and I ... well ... com ' on .... it is VERY short-sighted (but natural) for most of us to think they will come back out on YOUR side of the wall to walk across YOUR poisons.
    Dawn ... show then this too!
    Bed bugs run for cover!
    I'd hate to have bed bugs spreading into my Bathroom AGAIN, simply because a Pesticide Co. does not do Kitchens and Bathrooms.
    A general broadening of focus as to what else the bed bugs MIGHT do is needed all around.
    Wishing you success Dawn

  9. dawnsimonds

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    Posted 12 years ago
    Fri May 11 2007 13:17:30
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    when you say they should spray the entire apartment, are you referring to inside kitchen cabinets as well? like where all my dishes are stored? or are you referring to perimeter spraying only? i'm just a little confused because the pco told me they don't nest or hang out in kitchens or bathrooms, unless perhaps the infestation is that bad. they will still have to come to the bed to eat and they will cross the poison when they crawl up the bedposts and enter the bedroom because the poison will be all over the bedroom. thoughts?

  10. BBsBlow

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    Posted 12 years ago
    Fri May 11 2007 13:46:16
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    Hi Dawn,
    I'm also in NJ. The pest people I had at my old apt. did spray both the bathroom and kitchen, mainly because I had seen BBs there. And in my kitchen, I did have to remove EVERYTHING from the cabinets as they did spray them. (The BBs I saw in the kitchen were on the floor, but they insisted on doing the cabinets above.) Better safe than sorry when it comes to spraying, so definitely get the whole place treated.

    -Blow

  11. dawnsimonds

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    Posted 12 years ago
    Fri May 11 2007 13:53:58
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    they told me they won't spray the kitchen cabinets, because there is food in there but they did say they would spray the entire perimeter of both the kitchen and the bathroom. does that sound okay? as i explained, i have never seen ANY BBs at all, let alone in the kitchen or bathroom. i have inspected my bedroom thoroughly, even sticking my head inside furniture and looking into the cracks with a mirror to see if i could find any. i also dismantled my headboard and could find nothing there either. when the first pco came to inspect, they refused to treat me because they could find NO evidence at all. they found no fecal spots, etc. the only evidence i have is tiny blood spotting on my pillow (from about a week ago now) and the dog barking in two spots in my bedroom only. he didn't even bark in the living room or the second bedroom (where my brother currently sleeps). this is why i'm thinking i caught this early and the bugs are only confined to those two spots in my bedroom. any additional thoughts?

  12. BBsBlow

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    Posted 12 years ago
    Fri May 11 2007 14:09:31
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    I had to remove my food and dishes, and then a few weeks later, I put them back in the cabinets after I laid down new shelf liner. From what I remember, the PCOs do spray the perimeters of rooms, so that's fine. From what you're saying, it doesn't look like the PCO is necessarily interested in preventative measures should the BBs migrate. It does seem like you've caught them early, so emphasize that to the PCO so he can spray other areas as a precaution.

  13. dawnsimonds

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    Posted 12 years ago
    Fri May 11 2007 14:19:31
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    he is going to spray the sh*t out of both bedrooms and the living room and will do the perimeter spraying in the bathroom and kitchen. i think this is mostly because there is a strong belief among both myself and the pco that they haven't migrated yet and IF they migrate they will be migrating TO the bedroom not AWAY from it since that's where we sleep. it sounds like you had a very serious infestation for them to be hanging out in your kitchen. did you see things like fecal spotting on your mattress and such because i haven't even seen that yet and i've inspected my mattress carefully.

  14. willow-the-wisp

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    Posted 12 years ago
    Fri May 11 2007 15:00:16
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    Sounds better than nothing, but you MUST define the "perimeter" as the entire corer top and bottom and all along the top wall seam and the floor seam--completely, then that might be OK--you make a good point about they bugs will want to stay near you ... but you know ... its VERY easy to have a few bugs in your clothes, wander into the kitchen to bake a cake or whatever and have the two bugs sense the heat and out of the sweater and onto the counter they go. It only takes a few bed bugs. So best to err on the cautionary precautionary side.
    Spray all around the cabinets too--maybe not in them ... I do see your point. But we here seem to know what we're talking about and in my case it is mostly hindsight is 20 20 vision
    In fact ... you'll want to try to coax the bugs into the bedroom by staying in there a lot! if this means buying a box of cookies in stead of baking them and eating them in bed ... well ... there "B" lots of crums in my bedding at times.

  15. dawnsimonds

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    Posted 12 years ago
    Fri May 11 2007 15:22:49
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    hopefully i'm not being foolish relying on the bed bug sniffing dog but he seemed to be very good and i've used him before and he found bed bugs in my last apartment so he seems to know his stuff. the pco i'm using wants me to bag up all my clothes and wash them, wash basically anything that can be washed. for everything else, they want me to dust it and then vaccuum (this includes my shoes) but leave it where it is so they can spray (i would imagine). i have to take all of the paperwork out of our wooden desk and bag that up so they can spray inside the desk. i've already emptied out my drawers and checked all my clothes (these clothes were in the dresser the dog barked at) yet found no bugs at all, no casings, no fecal matter, nothing at all. i've been wearing the same pair of pants and sweatshirt for the past week and i keep it in the kitchen rather than in the bedroom. i actually change out of the clothes i'm wearing in the kitchen and i'm constantly checking myself to make sure there are no bugs on me as i walk around the house. like i said, my situation is a bit weird in that i haven't seen ANY bugs, ANY cast skins, ANY feces. The only thing I have to go on is the little blood spots on the pillow and the dog barking at the two spots in my bedroom. does this sound like it's still a light infestation to everyone?

  16. Fedupandparanoid

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    Posted 12 years ago
    Fri May 11 2007 15:32:39
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    Just as a matter of interest Willow do you mean that bedbugs will be attracted to heat of any sort? Doesn't it have to be human heat/CO2 - is there research that says that bed bugs are attracted to heat or is this your own experience? Also I thought that most entymologists considered that bed bugs are unintentional hitchhikers ie they accidentally get caught up in luggage or in trouser turn ups etc because they are not designed to cling on to humans as such. I accept that sometimes what is stated as theory is different in practice hence the question. I suppose it depends on the size of the infestation but generally aren't they hotwired to make for their food source regardless of other distractions?

  17. S

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    Posted 12 years ago
    Fri May 11 2007 15:38:06
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    Dawn,

    I think your PCO sounds just fine. It's common for PCOs to suggest skipping the kitchen and the bathroom, for the reasons above (they're *probably* not in those rooms, and you store food and personal items there).

    I don't understand why your dog barking would indicate the presence of bedbugs. I had a dog growing up, so I'm not totally unfamiliar with dogs, but this makes no sense to me.

    However, the blood stains are certainly an indicator that you may have bedbugs. You said they were on the pillow. You don't happen to have any pimples that could have bled? Or a cracked lip?

    I'm not discounting the possibility of bedbugs, but just suggesting some other things it could be. It's also very possible that you have bedbugs but don't react to the bites. My boyfriend never itched, but we conducted a bite test (with real bedbugs) to see if he truly had zero reaction - and he actually showed a very small reaction - very small, pink, non-itchy bumps that looked slightly like pimples. Check your body for those too!

    The first three times my PCO came, he only sprayed the bedroom. This included the baseboards, under the edges of the wall-to-wall carpet, inside the dressers, shelves and nightstand (which were emptied), the brick wall and edges of the walls and window.

    While did a thorough job, we had moved some items from the bedroom to the rest of the house - and we believe this is how they spread. So you may have read this in the FAQs already but again:

    Don't move anything out of the bedroom!

    We moved a bunch of cardboard boxes that had been under the bed. Then we moved an upholstered chair. Bad, bad moves. We didn't know any better. Ugh.

    The fourth time, I had actually seen a bug on the couch, so the PCO treated the rest of the house too. Even then, he only did the baseboards in the kitchen and bathroom - not inside the cabinets or anything. If bedbugs were present in any room, the PCO will target their "pathways" - the areas where they are most likely to travel. These are typically the baseboards - where the walls meet the floor - and inside outlet plates. You might want to ask your PCO if he can put dust inside your outlets.

    I agree that even if they were somewhere else in the house, they would most likely travel towards the bedroom. Nothing is a guarantee, of course, but I do think you can beat this while only treating the bedroom.

    How are you handling your clothes?

  18. dawnsimonds

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    Posted 12 years ago
    Fri May 11 2007 15:57:25
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    i'm sorry if i wasn't clear. the bed bug sniffing dog is what i was referring to. i guess not everyone is familiar with her but she is a dog trained to sniff out the presence of bed bugs and she sniffed them out in my bedroom, which is why i'm getting the exterminator even though the only other sign i've seen has been little blood spots on my bedsheets. the pco i have coming is treating the entire apartment. he originally suggested skipping the kitchen and bathroom but i've asked him to spray those perimeters as well. please keep in mind that not only haven't i seen any bugs, i haven't seen any signs (like fecal matter, cast skins, etc.) so it's most definitely in it's early stages. i have already bagged up all the clothes in my drawers and i will be washing every stitch of clothing this weekend, including all of our linens. this is what the pco suggested. they also suggested i vaccuum every stitch of everything in the house before they come so this will be quite a task. again, it seems that my infestation must be very light because the signs are quite minimal and the bed bug dog only barked at those two areas in my bedroom, leading me to believe they haven't made it into my living room yet.

  19. S

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    Posted 12 years ago
    Fri May 11 2007 16:10:20
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    Ohhhhhhhh.

    Gotcha.

    I am familiar with bedbug-sniffing dogs. I just thought your own personal dog had special powers or something! Ha! Sorry about that.

    It sounds like you are definitely on the right track. Glad you've got plans for laundry, and a PCO on the way. It's a lot of work, no doubt. The laundry's probably the single most formidable task of them all.

    It definitely sounds small - good job to you for catching it early. And, while some would argue it's bad that you don't react to bites (because your body can't be a warning signal) it's also good. You'll have so much less physical discomfort.

  20. dawnsimonds

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    Posted 12 years ago
    Fri May 11 2007 16:21:14
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    i'm glad to hear that other people think it's probably a small infestation as well. that is what i was thinking and the dog handler felt the same way. like i said, the first pco i tried to use (cooper pest) wouldn't treat me because they didn't see enough evidence.

  21. BBsBlow

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    Posted 12 years ago
    Fri May 11 2007 16:34:13
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    Hi Dawn,
    Your PCO in Secaucus has the dog? What breed? I read an article on a beagle in SC months ago, and they made it seem like that was the only dog out there that was capable. But from what I've read here, other dogs exist that can sniff 'em out. Good to know, though none of the PCOs I had (I'm in Bergen county) mentioned them.
    I did see blood and whatnot in my old mattress. (I moved to a new place in March.) I got rid of it. I went for months not knowing what I had due to clueless drs. I essentially diagnosed myself, and then found the proof. This all happened a year ago this month, and I am worried they followed me despite dumping everything. I was sprayed 4 times. Looking back, I remember most, if not all, used a bug bomb, which I would learn here is a bad idea. Make sure they don't use one!

  22. dawnsimonds

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    Posted 12 years ago
    Fri May 11 2007 16:38:08
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    hi blow,
    my pco didn't have the bed bug dog. i hired him myself. the company is advancedk9 detectives. he's an independent contractor and was featured in the ny times. that's how i found him. i'm also in bergen county. which pco did you use?

  23. BBsBlow

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    Posted 12 years ago
    Fri May 11 2007 16:55:16
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    Hi Dawn,
    I don't remember its name, but I think it was located in Garfield. They sprayed/bombed twice. And the next place was ChemTech. Not sure where they're located, but I see their trucks around and cringe! I would always pass one on my way here from my parents, which drives me insane if I am in a bad state of mind. Thanks for the dog site. I'm going to check it out.

    -Blow

  24. dawnsimonds

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    Posted 12 years ago
    Fri May 11 2007 17:05:08
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    did your pest control efforts work? have you heard of stern environmental in secaucus? that's who i'm using.

  25. BBsBlow

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    Posted 12 years ago
    Sat May 12 2007 10:46:48
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    Hi Dawn,
    No, the efforts did not work in the end. I was last bitten around Christmas, and moved out Feb. 28. I continued to see bugs despite the fact my apartment was an empty shell. At least they weren't biting me! I haven't heard of Stern Environmental. I don't live very near Secaucus, so they probably wouldn't have come to me anyway. My landlords were the ones responsible for getting rid of them, but they were getting angrier and angrier the bugs weren't leaving ($), and would then blame me that they were still there.

    -Blow

  26. dawnsimonds

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    Posted 12 years ago
    Mon May 14 2007 11:46:20
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    is there anyone familiar with stern environmental in secaucus?

  27. dawnsimonds

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    Posted 12 years ago
    Mon May 14 2007 15:12:58
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    please has anyone used stern environmental in secaucus? i'm working with them tomorrow and now i'm getting nervous they aren't a good choice. does anyone have any input who might have worked with them please!

  28. Bugalina

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    Posted 12 years ago
    Mon May 14 2007 15:44:35
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    There was a person who posted on the Yahoo Group who said "don't use them"...but they gave no more info...go back and check the yahoo group...Did you interview anyone else ???

  29. nightshirt

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    Posted 12 years ago
    Mon May 14 2007 16:05:26
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    dawn - unfortunately, welcome. you need to know what qyuestions to ask. you need to know the answers to see if they know the answers. like which the chemicals are they using - how to prepare your home, etc. how often will they come? if you know the answers you can easily conclude if they will be good or not, i think. and good luck. these infestations can be a horrific experience. we are here to support you

  30. dawnsimonds

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    Posted 12 years ago
    Mon May 14 2007 17:11:14
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    i have interviewed cooper pest in new jersey, who won't help me without hard evidence (a/k/a an actual bug) but i don't want to wait for an actual bug to appear to take action. i haven't seen any bugs and that's good. i haven't even seen any fecal matter and that's even better. i have seen tiny blood spots on my sheets and the bed bug sniffing dog barked at my dresser and the middle of my mattress so that's what i'm going on. needless to say, it's clearly a small infestation right now which is why i'm so desperate to get someone to come in there and do something about it. as for the comment someone made about stern environmental saying 'don't use them' he replied to me that he was just saying that because he read pest away was the best so he went with them, but then i've heard some negative things about pestaway as well so there you have it. they made me wash ALL my clothes and vaccuum every single crack and crevice in the house, including all the furniture and the mattress. they are using bedlam, suspend, ultracide, demand cs and tempo for the treatments. they will come for two treatments, approximately one week (although i'm going to suggest 10 days) apart but will continue to come back until the problem has been eliminated. that's what their guarantee says.

  31. Bugalina

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    Posted 12 years ago
    Mon May 14 2007 19:42:53
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    I think that sounds good Dawn....the only thing is that buggedinbrooklyn said Bedlam was ineffective when he sprayed it onto bugs..I think it was him who said that...but they sound as though they are being very thorough....have you covered your mattresses and boxsprings !!!! and pillows !!!

  32. S

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    Posted 12 years ago
    Mon May 14 2007 23:02:15
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    Dawn,

    In general, it's a good thing that they are asking you to be so thorough. It feels like a lot of work, and IT IS a lot of work, but it's almost good that they are taking the position of authority here and giving you stuff to do.

    My PCO gave me a ten-point list of things to do before he arrived, but then when I called with questions they had no idea what to tell me. Like the big cardboard boxes that were underneath my bed - it just became a mess. They said I needed to remove them from under the bed, and I said "Well where should I put them?" and they said it would be best to throw them away, but only if they were wrapped in plastic. These were big boxes - would not have fit inside a garbage bag. They were like "Can you disassemble them?" and I was like "Not easily," so they said to just get them out from under the bed. Okay, they sat in the hallway, then they sat in the office. We eventually just burned them! One night in winter, we lit a fire in the fireplace and broke them down and burned them! It was like a symbolic ritual.

    But the point is, my PCO had a loose protocol. It sounds like yours is pretty tight. You would be advised to do everything they ask you to, and if they can't answer your questions on things, ask us.

    Good luck, it sounds like you're making good progress over there!

  33. nightshirt

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    Posted 12 years ago
    Tue May 15 2007 11:17:10
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    suspend, demand and tempo? they are all the same. suspend is a colorless tempo. if they use colorless you do not really have to wash your floors too soon after treatment. i always like to not wash my stuff after treatment for a few days at lease.

    he should come 10-14 days apart for at least 2-3 times.

    the prep is the worst and then you must live like that, out of zip locks for quite a while. my home was dedicated to bbs for a long time and i still have stuff in baggies in my bed drawers.

    let us know how you make out.

  34. BBsBlow

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    Posted 12 years ago
    Tue May 15 2007 12:17:49
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    Definitely do whatever they say. One PCO I had refused to come unless I had followed their list of "demands." (Empty drawers, stand bed up, empty closets, etc.) My super even had to come over to make sure I followed their list of demands!! Like everyone said, it's a pain in the a**, and that's an understatement, but it's done for a reason, to better the odds of getting rid of these things!

  35. S

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    Posted 12 years ago
    Tue May 15 2007 13:25:52
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    My PCO used Suspend in a tank sprayer. Then he switched to Demand because it was microencapsulated. He also used Tempo in dust form.

    I don't think they are exactly the same, though they may share active ingredients. It's more about the form these products come in, and where they are sprayed (ie mattress versus couch versus baseboards versus outlet plates).

    Actually, I don't think Demand uses the same active ingredient - I think it's called cyhalothrin. Suspend uses deltamethrin. (These could be different names for the same thing, but I think they are different).

    Anyway, Dawn, it's good that he is bringing a combination of products.

  36. dawnsimonds

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    Posted 12 years ago
    Wed May 16 2007 9:16:32
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    what i'm most concerned about is the bedlam. that's what he used most, in all the cracks and crevices but he stands by it and says he has great success with it. he said it should flush all the bugs out of their crevices while he is working yet he found ABSOLUTELY NO bugs throughout the entire treatment. personally, he said he doesn't think they are there or that i killed them by laying down N.I.C. around and inside my dresser. but then i read here that bedlam doesn't work. this guys swears it's his most effective tool and he guarantees that it will work. has anyone heard anything else about bedlam?

  37. dawnsimonds

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    Posted 12 years ago
    Wed May 16 2007 10:04:01
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    in addition, i have read on the yahoo groups that bedlam is non-residual yet when i read the product in formation on the website and spoke to my pco, both claim it IS residual. what's the story ?

  38. S

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    Posted 12 years ago
    Wed May 16 2007 12:43:11
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    Dawn,

    I suggest you try doing some slightly more objective research here, or else this will turn into a "whose word do I want to believe" contest.

    Bedlam is a product, which you can google and find. You can find who makes it, you can find its "Materials Safety Data Sheet" which tells you all about the product. That is sometimes called an "MSDS."

    From Google, I just found Bedlam for sale at a site called pestproductsonline dot com. Looks like it's made by a company called McLaughlin Gormley King Company, or MGK. The MSDS has a bunch of phone numbers you can call to talk to the company about their product.

    The pest products site says that Bedlam "kills on contact and provides residual control." However, this may mean it lasts for an hour. You never know.

    If I were you, I would call MGK and ask them yourself.

  39. dawnsimonds

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    Wed May 16 2007 15:29:39
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    is anyone else has other information or has used stern environmental in secaucus, new jersey, i would greatly appreciate any insight.

  40. S

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    Wed May 16 2007 15:51:40
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    Dawn,

    You have asked us here, and on the yahoo group multiple times, if we've heard of or used Stern Environmental. I think it's great that you're trying to find out if they are qualified, but it also sounds like you haven't gotten a response from people because you are still asking.

    Maybe nobody here knows them. This is only a small slice of the population. So instead of simply repeating your question, why don't you try a different technique? Tell us about them, and we'll see if we can determine if they sound experienced.

    What info did you tell them on the phone?
    What did they tell you to do? Did they give you a list of prep work, like laundry?
    What products do they use?
    How many people do they send?
    How much do they cost?
    How experienced are they with bedbugs?
    Do they offer a guarantee?
    What is their plan for solving your bedbug problem?

    Maybe nobody here has used them. Sorry about that. But if you don't know the answers to the above questions, we can't help you.

    So if you don't know these things, CALL THEM AND ASK THEM TO TELL YOU. Their word is as good as anyone's at this point. And if you aren't sure about the answers they give you, then tell us what they said and we'll weigh in.

    Sorry to sound harsh. Sometimes we've gotta find our own information in this world; we can't always expect that others have been there before. Maybe you'll use Stern and they'll be great, and then you'll tell us all about them. Maybe they'll suck and you'll tell us that too. We'll add them to our collective wisdom about PCOs.

    But seriously. Just call them.

  41. dawnsimonds

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    Wed May 16 2007 17:00:23
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    1. i told them i had blood spotting on my sheets so i suspected bed bugs.
    2. they told me to vaccuum everything in my house, including all of my furniture. they also advised that i wash everything that could be washed.
    3. they suggested i toss my mattress because it had too many holes in it. they used bedlam on my boxspring, my bed frame, my headboard and all of my furniture. then they used suspend all around the perimeter of the house, including the bathroom and kitchen. they also dusted the outlets with delta dust.
    4. they sent two techs: the supervisor and one of his trainees.
    5. they cost $802.50 for a two bedroom apartment.
    6. their website claims they are very experienced with bed bugs and even has testimonials from satisfied clients (www.sternenvironmental.com).
    7. they come back two times (they are coming back next week) but will come back if there are any further signs of infestation.
    8. their plan for solving my problem is to come back next week and respray with the bedlam and suspend and delta dust again.

    i should also mention that the tech found NO bugs during the treatment and NO evidence of bugs during the treatment. he said the bedlam should have brought them out as he was spraying it as that is usually what happens but it didn't happen in my case. the only evidence i had was a small caste skin (he thought it was a caste skin) and the blood spotting on my pillow. he said i may have eliminated the infestation on my own because i have been spraying N.I.C. all around the room over the last few weeks.

    in addition, i called the company that makes bedlam and they said it is a product specifically created to fight bedbugs and that it does have residual properties anywhere from 2 to 7 weeks depending on the surface upon which it is sprayed. my fear is that i've read from a person on the yahoo group who used stern and said bedlam doesn't work. so who am i supposed to believe?

  42. Bugalina

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    Wed May 16 2007 17:58:23
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    Dawn...You used them...so now you have to have faith...I have no idea about Bedlam...It was me who remembered that buggedinbrooklyn gave it a bad review...but he hasn't responded so maybe he was mistaken....anyways...I think that a lite infestation can be more frustrating for PCO's than a heavy one....its getting down to that last SOB that is the challenge...Zero Population is the goal....It sounds to me as though they did a good job...its up to you to stay on their tails and demand good service..which you have the right to do....The important thing is to get rid of them and STAY RID OF THEM !!!!

  43. dawnsimonds

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    Wed May 16 2007 18:00:58
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    thanks. i am still waiting to hear from the service guy from the company that makes bedlam. i called them directly to find out what the rates of success are. i truly hope this company can help me. and it is definitely a light infestation that's why i'm so freaked out.

  44. Bugalina

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    Wed May 16 2007 18:06:24
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    We are get freaked out...one year later..I am still freaked out...all of my furniture still sits in storage...Anyways I think S's idea to phone the company was a good one.....maybe you can find a different insect..and spray it with Bedlam..see if it works...Ask them if what insects are vulneralble to Bedlam...so then you can test it...

  45. (deleted)

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    Wed May 16 2007 18:07:39
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    Hi Dawn,

    I'm sorry that you are under so much stress and anxiety. I know that because you are not allergic to bedbug bites your situation is particularly difficult!

    My messages continually get caught in the spam filter so I will not provide any links, and hopefully the length will also not trigger it, but I looked this up for you to help you understand why there are no clear cut answers, ok? It's a bit complex and at least partly contradicted by the experience of at least one Bedbugger, but there is an explanation for that too, so bear with me.

    University of Kentucky entomologists Mike Potter, Alvaro Romero, and others, tested Bedlam in a lab setting.

    They said Bedlam is an insecticide but is mostly alcohol and a short residual pyrethroid and it is often used to treat bedding and upholstered furniture.

    They used three strains of bedbugs, two strains known to be susceptible to pyrethroid insecticides (Bedlam is such an insecticide), and one strain known to be resistant.

    This is what they found:

    Direct spraying with Bedlam caused 100% of adult bedbugs to die, including the ones known to be resistant. They think that Bedlam worked against the resistant bugs, as well as the non-resistant bugs, because of its alcohol content (alcohol is a known contact killer).

    However, when they experimented with the newly hatched nymphs by keeping them on a surface treated with Bedlam for extended periods (from 1 hour to 7 days), almost all of the susceptible nymphs were killed but almost none of the resistant nymphs were killed.

    Their conclusion? Bedlam is an "excellent contact kill as a direct spray against adults and nymphs." But whether it is also effective as a residual depends on the susceptibility of the population "and perhaps other factors still being investigated."

    So, how to reconcile this with Buggedinbrooklyn's direct experience of Bedlam in which he sprayed some bugs with them and they kept on wriggling, i.e., they were NOT killed on contact? (Maybe we should ask him if they eventually died.)

    My bet? Other factors still being investigated! All of this stuff is too new--I'm quoting from a January 2007 article in PCT magazine. No one really knows. We are all experimenting, it's not just the scientists.

    Put in other words, as Bugalina is fond of saying, there are no experts.

    Finally, your PCO did not use Bedlam exclusively. And in fact, they used it on furniture and bedding, where they're supposed to. They also used, you told us, Demand and a whole arsenal of other chemicals. By other things you've said, they sound on the ball. They gave you extensive prep instructions. They're coming back. They dusted the outlets. Frankly, they sound way better than my PCO. Let's see what happens, ok?

    I know this is extremely trying... but you are doing everything you can and, although it seems you are the first in our bedbugger community to use them, they sound just fine. They used other things besides Bedlam. They use Bedlam, like they told you, because it works for them in their treatment protocol which, it bears repeating, includes other chemicals.

    You've done a lot of work and this is incredibly hard. Why not a small reward? Why don't you do something that relaxes you and makes you smile? You deserve it. And come back and tell us how you feel tomorrow.

  46. dawnsimonds2

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    Thu May 17 2007 12:48:24
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    for some reason, i lost my original user name and password in this whole mess so i had to create a new one. i've spoken to the creators of bedlam, who assure me that it's residual for up to 5 weeks and labeled specifically for bed bugs. i've also spoken to my pco and asked if they could use more than just bedlam in my cracks and crevices in addition to using suspend all around the perimeter of the house. they agreed to use something called d-force (is anyone familiar with this?) in addition to the bedlam and the suspend and the delta dust in all the electrical outlets. since they didn't find any actual live bugs during the first treatment and i have found no dead bugs yet, they believe they may have killed them in the cracks where they were hiding. any thoughts?

  47. S

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    Thu May 17 2007 13:15:09
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    Dawn,

    It sounds like this PCO is, quite honestly, fantastic. They sound better than most I've heard of. I don't know why you had anything to worry about!

    My PCO used D-Force and Suspend. D-Force was the contact killer, Suspend was the residual. However, D-Force and Suspend use the same active ingredient, deltamethrin. So based on what Nomo describes and others have said, I actually think Bedlam is a better choice for you. Only because, you don't need to use 2 products with the same ingredient. I think that in principle, it's best to use as many different kinds of chemicals as possible.

    That said, they've already used Bedlam once in your place, so it'll stay put for a while. So I think trying D-Force the next time around is a good idea.

    Your PCO may very well be correct, that they've got them all. In the meantime, all you can do is wait. So sit tight. You're doing GREAT.

  48. dawnsimonds2

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    Thu May 17 2007 13:51:16
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    The next time they come, in 10 days from the first treatment, they are going to spray the cracks and crevices with BOTH Bedlam and D-Force, as this is what I requested. They are also going to continue to use the Suspend around the perimeter of the entire apartment and the Delta Dust in all the outlets. So that makes four chemicals for what is apparently a very small infestation, according to the PCO since he didn't find any bugs at all. He did, however, make me toss out my mattress because it was made such that it has little holes all around it and he said there was no way he could ever get the bedlam deep enough into the holes to kill the bugs. truth is, although I KNOW it's small right now, i don't want it to get any bigger and spread to my parents apartment downstairs (it's a 2 family house) though my entire family insists they don't care and have bigger problems to deal with. my father has kidney cancer and my mother has a serious heart condition. further to that, my husband walked out on me throughout this whole ordeal because he essetially couldn't take my neurotic behavoir anymore so now have lost his entire half of the family including my 9 year old stepdaughter's birthday which is this week. we did everything we could not to bring these little buggers with us from the last apartment (throwing out so many things and laundering so many things thati just caoe believe it's happening yo me agan,

  49. (deleted)

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    Thu May 17 2007 15:16:06
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    Dawn-
    I'm so very sorry. Is there any way that you can seek a therapist to talk things through? I think it might help. You are experiencing an overwhelming loss, and bed bugs are small in comparison to it. I am very sorry.

  50. (deleted)

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    Thu May 17 2007 15:30:42
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    Also, Dawn, mattresses can be encased so that they don't have to be tossed. There is a faq on how to protect your bed. You might consider an air mattress until your infestation is under control, before you purchase a new one.

  51. dawnsimonds2

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    Thu May 17 2007 15:39:43
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    i have already tossed the mattress and i am now sleeping on a twin mattress covered with a vinyl covering. the bed it rests on is actually metal so i'm hoping that makes it harder for them to get to me. the thing is, the PCO said 'you don't have an infestation'. he couldn't find a darn bug at all. all we had was one caste skin and that's it. even when he sprayed the bedlam into all the cracks and crevices, absolutely nothing came out. so it's not like they are all over the apartment. so they most certainly concentrated in my master bedroom, probably a) in the mattress that i already threw out and b) in the dresser that was treated with bedlam, which i've now confirmed is a residual insecticide. so i'm hoping and praying the bedlam killed whatever was in the dresser. they found absolutely NOTHING on the boxspring at all - no feces, no eggs, no blood markings, nothing yet they still treated it with bedlam. the PCO also believes I may have killed whatever was there before he came because i've been putting down N.I.C. dust all around and inside the dresser since the bed bug sniffing dog barked at it last week. finally, i have ordered mattress and box spring covers from residex and i'm going to cove the boxspring and get a new mattress and cover it immediately. the PCO is coming back on Friday, March 25th for the second round of extermination and, like i said, has promised to use both D-Force and Bedlam on all cracks and crevices this time.

  52. (deleted)

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    Thu May 17 2007 15:46:09
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    Sounds like you have this under control, Dawn. It's going to work out. You appear to be in good hands and you are doing everything that you can. It's time to trust the professionals until you see evidence that indicates otherwise.

  53. willow-the-wisp

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    Thu May 17 2007 16:00:43
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    Dawn best wishes sincerely from willow--I’m going thru it on several angles too and so, I won't bore you with my problems but I do sympathize with you. It DOES sound like you'll be OK eventually with the bed bugs--and I'm one of the so called bed bug fanatics who go to extreme lengths.

  54. dawnsimonds2

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    Thu May 17 2007 16:13:59
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    thank you, i appreciate the support from everyone.

  55. dawnsimonds2

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    Fri May 18 2007 13:34:03
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    S,

    Did your efforts with D-force and Suspend work? Are you still dealing with the problem. You note that D-Force is a contact killer but I've looked it up and it is, in fact, a residual as well. Do you think these efforts will work in the end?

  56. willow-the-wisp

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    Sat May 19 2007 3:03:43
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    it's been 13 hours Dawn ... we're still here for you!

  57. dawnsimonds2

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    Mon May 21 2007 12:34:46
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    I'm still wondering if S can tell me if she's had any success by using the Suspend and D-force as that is what my exterminator is going to use for my follow up visit. He will still use the Bedlam and I've heard so many contradicting things about it that I don't know what to believe anymore. When I called the company that makes Bedlam directly, they assured me it IS a residual with mostly 5 weeks of residual control but I'm just not sure who or what to believe anymore. I'm afraid I got bit on the wasteline of my sweatpants last night in the back but it could have just been irritation from where my tag rubbed against me all night. I just don't know what to do anymore. Stern Environemental has guaranteed they can get rid of these things and I really want to believe them but I am so afraid because of all the conflicting information on Bedlam.

  58. (deleted)

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    Mon May 21 2007 13:02:41
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    Dawn, please don't despair. S is not ignoring you; S hasn't been online and probably has not seen your first post asking for follow-up advice. You can click on the words 'Member' or 'Administrator' or 'Key Master' below any poster's name to go to a screen that tells you when that person was last online and which threads and comments that person has posted.

    While you wait for S's response, you can check S's previous comments in this manner, or do a search using the new search bar at the bottom of your screen, and you will read everything that poster has written about his/her personal experience and infestation. You might get some information, some comfort, and then S will come around and respond to you in time.

    I just thought I'd let you know how it works. You can also participate in other threads and comment on other people's questions. It would be a good way to interact with the group and learn new things. Sound good?

  59. willow-the-wisp

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    Mon May 21 2007 13:28:33
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    Dawn was on my mind last night and so were you nomo ... I was about to do this sort of a thing to say hello to Dawn and to you but I saw BITEFREE and I was so weary...
    Thanks nomo for being such a great help to Dawn. We know how stressed out she is, and I think she would do well to follow your suggestions.
    I have only tried the new search engine once and I have to say I got a lot of extemporaneous stuff too! So dawn, don’t despair there ... You'll probably have to pick through some stuff.
    We are still here for you!
    Willow

  60. nyjammin

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    Mon May 21 2007 13:33:43
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    Dawn, what is N.I.C. dust? that you mentioned above?

  61. dawnsimonds2

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    Mon May 21 2007 14:09:10
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    N.I.C. dust is natural insect control. it's a dessicant dust that my last exterminator recommended.

  62. nyjammin

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    Mon May 21 2007 14:46:15
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    Is it like de or drione? Where can I get some? How do I apply it?

    Thanks, much!

  63. dawnsimonds2

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    Mon May 21 2007 16:10:41
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    i just bought it at a pest supply company in new york. i can't remember the name off the top of my head but i think you can just buy it online. just type in N.I.C. 325 and it should come up.

  64. Nobugsonme

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    I could be wrong, but I believe that like Drione, NIC 325 is DE PLUS pesticides. The DE part is "natural" but you still need to be cautious because of the pesticides and because you don't want to inhale the dusts. Still, good stuff.

    I started and run the site but am "not an expert."
  65. dawnsimonds2

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    Mon May 21 2007 17:15:47
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    but right now, the pco is coming and treating with bedlam, d-force and suspend in all the cracks and crevices. should i just do nothing else for now and let him do his work?

  66. (deleted)

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    Wed May 23 2007 17:19:11
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    I know this question was not directed at me, Dawn, but yes, I'd think it's time to allow the PCO to try their protocol. How are you?

  67. dawnsimonds2

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    Thu May 24 2007 10:25:40
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    well, the question was actually directed at everyone frankly so thanks for your reply. the pco is coming tomorrow and i've begged them (they probably hate me) to do a much more thorough job than they usually do. they are bringing suspend, bedlam, d-force and delta dust and have promised to use ALL of the materials in ALL the places they possibly can. like i said, since i've already tossed my mattress and the dresser is the only other place i believe they are hiding, i think i am ahead of the game. i just need this guy to douse that dresser really well. i'm going to make sure he sprays every last inch of it. ALL of the chemicals above are residual as well so we are working with stuff that should last. in the meantime, i've been sleeping in my office (because i had to throw out my mattress) and i haven't seen any signs at all. no bites (though i never had those), no blood spotting on sheets, no fecal marks, no nothing. and, sorry i'm being so wordy again, the exterminator DID find NOTHING on his first time out. he still believes we may have killed them all with the first spraying of bedlam or i may have killed them all with the N.I.C. but he's back out tomorrow to do an even more thorough job so any eggs that might have hatched can be killed now too. although, he also mention he couldn't find a darn egg anywhere. it's ridiculous. he couldn't find a thing at all. he said to me 'look, i'm not saying your crazy but you don't have an infestation'. my issue: i don't want it to turn into one so spray spray spray those chemicals everywhere you can is my policy. he's going to have it rough with me tomorrow and he already knows he putting in a lot of extra work but the company has been very patient with me. i've been asking questions constantly and they have answered every single one without getting upset or blowing me off. in fact, they have answered every single question promptly and seems like, honestly.. so now i pray my pco knows what he doing and get ready for tomorrow the big day.

  68. (deleted)

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    Thu May 24 2007 10:44:36
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    Hey Dawn, I worry about you, so I'm glad you're checking in. I think you are going to be ok.

    I just want to caution say that second-guessing and directing our PCOs can only go so far. None of us here has the training and experience, nor the state license, necessary to authoritatively countermand the protocol of an experienced PCO unless it can reasonably be thought to be an ineffective one, because other PCOs or experts have suggested it, for example. So, yes, we can argue with PCOs who don't want to treat our whole homes, or who don't dust our outlets, etc., but demanding that they use chemical A here and dust B here can possibly not be in our interest if we know less than they do!

    In your case, Dawn, I think you will be fine, your PCO sounds great, but I'm just thinking that, for others, especially those who contemplate doing this themselves or who have PCOs willing to play fast and loose with the rules, mixing inappropriate quantities, for example, then throwing a bunch of chemicals at the problem, in all the same places at the same time, can be a recipe for failure if the modes of action or the active ingredients and quantities conflict with each other.

  69. Nobugsonme

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    Thu May 24 2007 10:49:59
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    I agree with Nomo.

    Dawn, it does sound like you've got a good PCO.

    I would suggest starting a new thread at this point and closing this one (which does not make it go anywhere!) Why? Because I find that personally, once a thread is into two and three pages, it's harder to scroll through to the new message.

    A second suggestion is to name the new thread more specifically (Dawn's PCO experiences, or Dawn's treatment or similar, because then new people will have some idea what the topic is before opening the thread.

    Those are suggestions for everyone, not just Dawn or Nomo (who started the thread). And they are just suggestions for helping you get more out of the forums.

  70. dawnsimonds2

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    Thu May 24 2007 10:52:42
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    i completely understand that. and i'm going to make sure i have a long and detailed discussion with him to make sure the chemicals don't interact. when i've been corresponding with the office, they seemed to indicate that everything would work fine together and i'm sure if they would counteract each other they will tell me. the suspend and the d-force both use the same active ingredient, deltamethrin while the bedlam uses completely different ingredients. that's why i want to work with both at the same time so i can get them with two different ingredients. i will make sure i ask the pco if these will counteract each other before he uses them. i'm sure he will know. if anyone has any other input or knowledge about things counteracting each other, please let me know.

  71. (deleted)

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    Thu May 24 2007 11:03:39
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    That's just the point, Dawn, your PCO will know, and we do not.

    We only know general things, things like, to give an example, mixing a larger % of the active ingredient in the mistaken belief that it will be more potent and more lethal is bad and a sure sign of a bad PCO.

    I also encourage you Dawn to start a new thread and, more important, if you feel like it, to participate in other discussions.

  72. dawnsimonds2

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    Thu May 24 2007 11:06:35
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    where can i go to start a new thread about the mixing of chemicals? i know that reputable pco's read this so maybe someone can answer?

  73. (deleted)

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    Thu May 24 2007 11:08:58
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    Pick one of the forums at the bottom of your screen, tales of woe, or tools and weapons or whatever you feel like and go from there (there will be a section to post a new thread in that topic) There is also a link to post a new thread at the top of the screen above the green stickies.

    Nobugs, please close this thread.

  74. Nobugsonme

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    Dawn, just to clarify one thing-- PCOs NEED to use pesticides which combined have more than one active ingredient--to counteract pesticide resistance, provide residual effects, etc. This is standard--I can't speak to specific chemicals (see my response in the other thread) but this is normal. And if they were only using pesticides with one active ingredient between them I would be worried.

    Ok--thanks ladies, thread closed. See you in the other!


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