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Please weigh in about new forum rules!

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  1. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Thu Oct 27 2011 1:53:13
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    Note: much of the content below is old. If you want to skip right to the posting of the new rules and subsequent discussion posted as of 9/2012, click the link to go to this post lower down. Thanks!

    Hi Everyone,

    I want to make a new Green Sticky with a succinct list of site rules.

    There are rules stated already in the Terms and Conditions (which apply to everyone) and in the Warning for those in the bed bug product/service industry (which will likely be incorporated into these rules).

    However, there are also a lot of rules which aren't clearly enough stated, and they're not all in one place, and I want to fix that.

    Bedbugger.com is not Occupy Wall Street, so I am not trying for consensus. It's not even really a democracy - some votes will likely count more than others. However, I am very interested in your opinions and suggestions.

    I am also mindful that making rules is a delicate balance: you want people to be comfortable and not to feel overly restricted. I am also mindful that less is more. The rules below may be excessive or too wordy and input on that is welcomed as well as input on the content.

    Part 1

    Here are some guidelines which will most likely be officially added in some form:


      Before posting a question, please read the FAQs about the Forums and peruse the FAQs about bed bugs (either the original Bedbugger.com FAQs or the forum sticky with most common FAQs).

      The site's policy is that posts where users are talking about suicide will be closed and the user referred to professional help and other resources. If you encounter such a post, please refer the user (and post a link) to the Green Sticky on this topic and click the "Report this Post" link under the post to alert the admin and moderator so the thread can be closed.

      While wanting to encourage someone in these circumstances is admirable, unfortunately, it can also delay their getting professional help. Moreover, there have been incidences on the internet where some readers posted hurtful comments in response to such a post, and this can be very hurtful to someone in a sensitive state. We aren't equipped to offer professional counseling, and anyone who is thinking of harming themselves or others must seek help immediately by speaking to an appropriate health professional, going to a hospital Emergency Room (Casualty) or calling emergency services.


      You should also be aware that if you threaten to harm yourself or others, admin, moderators, (and of course, any site user reading the post) may choose to call the police at their discretion.
      Although you are posting here anonymously, your IP address is tracked (per the Privacy Policy) and we do have your email; if law enforcement asks, we would be legally obliged to share such information. If you threaten harm to self or others, you should be aware that we may feel ethically obliged to share your information with law enforcement.

      Even if you are not in the bed bug product/service business, please do not post offers to sell or donate secondhand bed bug-related merchandise. You may post such offers on eBay or Craigslist, and then post a link here (once) referring us to it. This is for your safety, and it means the transactions take place under the aegis and rules of the relevant site. If you post to eBay or Craigslist but prefer that someone from this site get the item, you may ask them to mention they saw the post here and to give you their username for confirmation.

      Please do not ask for or offer bed bugs for sale or for free on the site. [Note: this is currently spelled out in a Green Sticky.] In most cases, we are unable to verify who you are and what your purposes are, or that the shipment will be done in a safe and legal manner. Ultimately, we want to be sure bed bugs aren't accidentally spread, or used for sinister purposes. If you are a legitimate researcher attached to a laboratory, please email the admin to discuss your situation -- we will likely make exceptions for legitimate research once your status has been verified somehow.

      Please do not post personally-identifying information (yours or that of other users if they have shared it with you). The exception is that professionals may wish to use their real names and tell us which business they work for if this is not clear or well-known. If someone has used their real name on the forums (e.g. Jeff White, whose username includes his name, or David Cain, who signs his messages as such, or Lou Sorkin whose handle loubugs is well known to forum users), it's fine to refer to this. Most forum users who are not entomologists or otherwise in the bed bug industry prefer to use anonymous usernames, and not to post private information, since this site is indexed by Google. If you post your information, someone searching for your name, email, etc. will be stumbling upon this website for a long time. (Note that automated bots search the internet for email addresses to use for spam, so posting your email address on the forums isn't even a great idea if you are a well-known industry figure.)

      Please do not link to your own homepage(s) in your posts. You may link to your website from your username. (Use the space in your profile for a URL.) The exception would be if you run a non-commercial bed bug-related website and are referring to and linking to specific articles on your site that are relevant to the thread.

      If you are in the bed bug industry, please do not put your phone number or address in posts. You may include your real name, and readers can find your website by clicking your username.

      If you post about a product or service, you must disclose your financial connection to the firm or any freebies you've gotten (or other compensation) from the firm. This is according to FTC rules regarding endorsements implemented in 2009 which cover forum posts and blog posts and comments (some information on this here).

      If the main purpose of your post in a thread is to drive traffic to your commercial bed bug website or advertise your business, it's a form of spam. This pattern will generally be more transparent to others than you may think, and can lead to being banned.

      Please do not post the same message on multiple threads. If you come across a post where readers may be interested in something else you wrote, you may link to that post (the # symbol next to your post is a permalink: copy the URL and use it to link directly to your post).

      When you read an old thread, consider carefully whether to reply. Doing so will "bump" the thread to current status. If you do this for a thread which is old, you are likely replying to a question asked by someone who may be long gone. (Clicking a user's profile tells you when they last logged in; looking at any post tells you when it was posted.) The other reason you might not want to reactivate old threads is that they will push "down" more recent threads in the list of current discussions.

      PLEASE DON'T SHOUT!

      And please do be civil to others.


    ---
    Part 2

    Here are some areas I am not clear about:

    Expletives (note: expletives follow as examples. If you find them offensive, please do read this anyway, because your input is needed here!):

    Generally, I have been deleting variations of the most serious four-letter words (fuck, shit, etc.). This was not always the case. And I have not always noticed them or had someone alert me to them, so there are quite a few persisting. The most common is "shit" which is commonly used both for the state bedbuggers find themselves in, and the material they are looking for on their mattress fabric.

    Although swearing on occasion and to make an emphatic point does not always bother me, my impression is that it troubles many people here. Moreover, there have been a good number of users who swore a lot.

    On the other hand, I'm not really getting any feedback about needing to censor less serious swear words (in moderation), such as "ass".

    To complicate matters, there is the issue of swear words in disguise: if there is a line, where should the line be drawn? These seem even less troublesome to me and I assume to many others, but nevertheless, I have recently had a number of complaints not just about variations on common four-letter swear words with a letter removed (e.g. f*cked).

    What if there are two or three asterixes (f**ked or f***ed)?

    I would welcome your input on how this should be handled. I want to strike a balance between letting people express themselves in a way which can let off steam and be humorous and making users more sensitive to such language uncomfortable.

    I also try to avoid deleting things after they're posted, so I'd much rather we agree on some sort of policy -- whatever that might be: free-and-easy: anything goes, certain full words banned, asterixes okay, no potty mouth, etc.

    ---
    Part 3

    Anything else?

    I would welcome your input on any other rules which you are aware of which are not being stated here, or on those you think should be implemented. Referring to "Part 1," etc. may make things easier for others to follow.

    Since this isn't a draft, I'm not particularly worried about the order of the above items, and that kind of input can wait for later.

    Finally, discussing all of this here is best because what you say may spur others to agree or disagree, which will be helpful. On the other hand, if you want to say something you feel is quite sensitive, please feel free to email me via the contact form. Giving me your username there is more helpful than not doing so, but is not mandatory. Also, be aware that I may post your recommendations here without personally identifying you, if it is a recommendation or point I want to bounce around for group input.

    Thank you very much for your input! I know this was a lot to read. Any time you give to these questions is much appreciated by me.

    I started and run the site but am "not an expert."
  2. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Thu Oct 27 2011 2:08:17
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    One more thing, though bumping may not be a good practice in general, please do feel free to bump this if you see it falling lower. We need everyone's input now, rather than later.

    Thanks!

  3. Koebner

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Thu Oct 27 2011 3:42:49
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    Warning - contains illustrative swearing:

    I understand that, particularly in the US, swearing can be seen by some as personally offensive rather than emphatic, & I accept the site policy of censoring higher-order swear words (though "shit" is becoming pretty anodyne on this side of the pond & even our upmarket newspapers regularly use words that bedbugger would never condone).

    However, I'd argue strongly against any expansion of the current vocab-to--avoid list. Many people who rock up here are in a very distressed state & I think we should cut them some slack in terms of their self-expression.

    Also, many people from GB may swear far more than Americans without ever meaning or expecting to give the least offence. It's not that we're more aggressive or ill-bred than our American cousins, simply that the acceptable range of cussing is different. I'm aware of doing a lot of self-censorship when I post on US-based sites, but I've been to the States & spent a lot of time with Americans, not all my compatriots have that grounding.

    In principle, I'd favour asterisks over deletion, along with perhaps a reply suggesting that language be toned down, but I appreciate that would be labour-intensive.

    (I'm wittering on about this point because it seems to me that there's been a slight increase in the number of GB-based posters over the last year & I anticipate continued increase.)

  4. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Thu Oct 27 2011 6:28:19
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    Hi,

    Great points and well thought out.

    Hopefully the clarity will make hosting easier.

    David

    If you have found this information helpful please consider leaving feedback on social media via google+ or FaceBook or by like/loving the images.

    In accordance with the AUP and FTC (legal requirements) I openly disclose my vested interest in Passive Monitors as the inventor and patent holder. Since 2009 they have become an integral part in how we resolve bed bug infestations. I also have a professional relationship with PackTite in that they distribute my product under their own branding. I do not however receive any financial remuneration for any comments I make about products.
  5. theyareoutthere

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Thu Oct 27 2011 6:39:30
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    I'm female and used to work trucking and construction, so the swearing doesn't bother me. I don't swear, but I agree that people are extremely stressed here and one * is ok with me. If there's a lot of disagreement, I'm fine with more.

    You know what's funny, I don't consider "shit" swearing...it's like "shoot" to me. I think for newbies that would be one that you would forget about.

    Swearing may be a US vs. GB thing, an age issue (I was raised not to swear), and...the issue where I'm most sensitive a religious issue. I'm religious, but don't believe in judging.... and learned a lot about it's more important for someone to express themselves their way and me "my" way a long time ago. However, we might make someone uncomfortable if even the * are allowed.

    Bottom line....I'm perfectly fine with whatever is decided on that issue. The meanness of some of the arguments gets to me more than the swearing.

    I know I read one post that had me blushing...it was old so I won't bump it. But, it was good info....TMI but some good info in there if you got past that.

    Good luck.

    They
    Are
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    = TAOT
  6. lsdrg706

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Thu Oct 27 2011 7:47:28
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    The swearing doesn't bother me much either, though I have my own personal limits on which words I'll use. I doubt there'd be any kids posting or reading here, and that is an important point I think. As adults we should be able to handle it, whether we would speak that way or not.

  7. AshamedandScratching

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Thu Oct 27 2011 12:52:11
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    Um...I swear like a sailor, so I'm down with curse words and I have no problems with censored words with symbols or other varients. I do think tamping down on excessive swearing makes sense in this context as people who are highly stressed could become abusive. I don't know how intense the rules should be around occasional usage.

    I work with lawyers so this rule and a current topic create some cognitive dissonance for me: "Please do not post personally-identifying information (yours or that of other users if they have shared it with you)." Right now we have a thread that requests that kind of information (Topic: Where are you from? Asks for Zip code and other details). What constitutes personally-identifying information? People have posted here who perform and mentioned instruments, that may make them identifiable to someone already familiar with them.

    I have no problem with a certain amount of information being freely shared if it helps other people on the site dealing with their problems. I will probably avoid sharing exact information on myself or anyone I reference, but I wonder if that rule is hard to really follow or enforce when people are sharing elements of their personal issues here. And I get I'm being nitpicky but this is what lawyers do to you.

  8. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Thu Oct 27 2011 22:40:00
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    Thanks, everyone.

    Re: personal information

    AshamedandScratching - 9 hours ago  » 

    I work with lawyers so this rule and a current topic create some cognitive dissonance for me: "Please do not post personally-identifying information (yours or that of other users if they have shared it with you)." Right now we have a thread that requests that kind of information (Topic: Where are you from? Asks for Zip code and other details). What constitutes personally-identifying information? People have posted here who perform and mentioned instruments, that may make them identifiable to someone already familiar with them.

    Yes-- that should be further clarified. Recommendations are welcomed.

    In reference to the zip code thread, I have invited users to post the zip code as a tag, not in their posts. This allows people to register their location without associating it with their own username. So posting a zipcode tag on a thread does not need to be personally exposing anyone's identity.

    It would not be possible to regulate whether people are disclosing too much information in many cases. For example, if someone says they live in Seattle, are in a professional orchestra, and speak Hungarian -- that is enough for some people to figure out who you are. If you say you're female and your name starts with a J and you have an unusual major in a particular city, that may even be enough for someone to find you via Google. (By the way, I made up both examples, so any similarity to anyone's situation is unintended and not something I am aware of!)

    If people disclose too much, they're the ones that have to live with it, so this is maybe more of a warning than a rule. Similarly, we can also warn people to be cautious if meeting someone off the forum (or the internet in general) in person, but we can't prevent it (nor is this even desirable in all cases).

    On the letter hand, not using flickr accounts which have your real name attached to post a photo, not posting name, address, and email, are all pretty standard and could be elucidated.

    To be clear about the purpose of this one, I am not interested in banning people for saying "My name is Kim" or using a photo of their face as a Gravatar. I am trying to help avoid situations where people later regret posting too much info. (which hurts them) and asking for 200 posts or even entire threads to be deleted (which hurts the rest of us).

    Expletives

    In case it wasn't already clear, I am not personally troubled by expletives, due to my own cultural history.

    They weren't deleted for several years because I frankly did not register them much when I was reading, and because no one seemed troubled. In a few instances I did point out patterns to heavy users (the sort of posts with many four letter words). However, more recently, I have had complaints from a few people who assumed they should be deleted, and this has happened in some cases (almost all instances of the "f" word, almost none of the popular word beginning with "s").

    The purpose of this discussion is to ask what policy we want to have. Currently, there isn't one, just a lot of haphazardness and competing assumptions.

    Ideally, I want to create a situation where people know what's considered the community standard-- or can be referred to the rule when it's clear they don't-- rather a situation where admin or moderator have to regularly edit individual posts to delete words or add asterixes. That is very time consuming and takes away time when those people can be offering support to others.

    Personally, replacing a word with "[expletive deleted]" grates on me a bit and would even if I wasn't the chief deleter, because my own brain fills in the particular word anyway. It almost makes me think of more swear words-- all possibilities come to mind-- than if I actually saw just one.

    But maybe that's just me.

    Anyway, all of this feedback is helpful. I would like to hear from more users on this topic in particular here or via the contact form if you can't say it here.

    Thanks!

  9. VictoryIsMine

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Thu Oct 27 2011 23:18:30
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    Personally, I am not much of a swearer--with the rare exception when I'll say 'effing' (instead of the actual word), when and only if I'm violently angry. That being said, while I agree an abuse of the use of such words tend to be ugly to say the least, I believe everyone should have a right to express themselves in the manner they feel more comfortable, and true to the thought/feeling they want to convey. We do have freedom of speech, don't we?

  10. VictoryIsMine

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Thu Oct 27 2011 23:23:52
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    Also, I want to say I do see and appreciate Nobugsonme concern in being a good host, wanting everyone to feel comfortable, trying as much as possible to prevent unnecessary situations where one may feel offended. I think we can all just keep that in mind; act like we're entering someone's house and act like polite guests--that should do it.

  11. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Thu Oct 27 2011 23:27:51
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    Thanks for your words of support, VictoryIsMine.

    It's certainly easier to just let everyone act "polite", but everyone does not agree what that is, so perhaps a guideline would help.

    VictoryIsMine - 2 minutes ago  » 
    We do have freedom of speech, don't we?

    Technically, no-- not on a privately-run website.

    It's like being in a restaurant: you can be thrown out if the proprietor wishes. If they thought you were behaving inappropriately, they could ask you to leave. And you could not fall back on the First Amendment.

    A more obvious example is television-- there are plenty of things you can say that will be censored.

    It's nice to have a set of standards so people know what's expected. Going back to the restaurant example, I suspect different behavior would be considered appropriate in a Hooters restaurant vs. le Cirque. I am open to that being "swearing is okay," or some set of rules, but you can't fall back on freedom of speech.

  12. VictoryIsMine

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Thu Oct 27 2011 23:40:05
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    Point taken. Fine line. Hard to define... Either allow swearing, or limit it to 3 per paragraph? I vote allowing f--- (or its variations) instead of the words. This way those who want to express it can still do it, and those who are offended can see that an effort was made to tone it down.

  13. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Fri Oct 28 2011 9:49:54
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    Bump!

  14. buggyinsocal

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Fri Oct 28 2011 10:38:57
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    In general, swearing doesn't bother me at all. I realize that I may be in the minority on that one, but I think your point about the fact that people who come here are often stressed out and/or sleep deprived and, therefore, being more likely to swear is a good one. I suspect if you looked at a lot of my early posts, they'd be peppered with quite a few of the FCC's verboten list.

    So I'd be fine with leaving the swear words in most of the time--with one exception discussed below. First, however, I'll just point this out. Editing out the vowels of swear words reads to me exactly like reading the word, but more annoying. It drives me just as batty as when they bleep half a syllable of one on the radio. The attempt to obscure what we all already know is there seems awfully silly to me.

    I do realize that not everyone feels that way, and if the forum decides to visually bleep them out, it's not like I'm going to get huffy about it, but one of the dynamics of groups is that it's often only the people who are bothered by something who complain. Those os us who were okay with the status quo didn't complain when they started being visually bleeped, but I don't want Nobugsonme to get an inaccurate count of who cares about the use of them.

    The only time swearwords bother me is when they are directed as invectives against other people. That, for me, crosses a line of consideration that shouldn't be crossed no matter how sleep deprived and stressed you are.

    In other words, you can talk about the frelling bed bugs to your heart's content. You can call your landlord your frakking landlord (unless your landlord is mentioned by name and is on the boards and you put in a post to her Sue, you're a frakking idiot.).

    But i would prefer that people not write "Hey, buggy, you're a freller, so shut up."

    (For the more grammatically inclined, that would be an objection to the use of expletives in direct address, imperative, or any other 2nd person construction.)

    And now I have clearly outed myself as a big sci-fi fan, no?

    The other thing don't see mentioned in the proposed rules above but that I think could stand at least some guidelines is quoting other peoples' posts. People who are already familiar with netiquette have a general sense of it, but I know we also see a lot of newbites who are newbies to forum posting, and often there are follies with quoting. Netiquette says that you shouldn't quote a person's whole post; instead, it's best to quote just the relevant bits.

    Maybe we could also use a green stickie for newbites on how to use the HTML tags that the forum enables? I hate to propose that as I still haven't written up an FAQ for fecal spotting photos like I said I would. ::hangs head guiltily:: But long term some guidelines about how much quoting is useful could go on this stickie, and there could be another one on how to use the HTML options in the forum--specifically geared toward users.

    Other than that, everything up there looks great. And I will abide by whatever rules we end up with on swearing whichever way they go.

  15. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Fri Oct 28 2011 16:45:14
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    Hi buggyinsocal,

    Calling people names will not be permitted in the way you describe and isn't now. I can't scroll up on this eejit device right now but that should be covered in the rules above as something like "please be civil."

    Thanks everyone, and keep it coming.

  16. MsLadybug

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Fri Oct 28 2011 18:19:58
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    Im pretty new here but thought I would give my 2 cents anyway. I am not at all offended by swear words. I understand the stress people are under when dealing with bed bugs and if they need to express themselves its not offensive to me. I think your rules are good ones.

  17. rAVENSFAN99

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Fri Oct 28 2011 23:07:22
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    I'd rather see you auto-correct the spelling of "Ziploc" than mess with any off-color language.

  18. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 7 years ago
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    rAVENSFAN99 - 17 hours ago  » 
    I'd rather see you auto-correct the spelling of "Ziploc" than mess with any off-color language.

    Hi ravensfan,

    Unfortunately, I won't be able to autocorrect anything.

    What we're really talking about here are guidelines as opposed to things I will fix once they're done. However, I take this as a no vote on language guidelines and that's fine too.

  19. MyWorstFear

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Sat Oct 29 2011 22:05:01
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    Nobugs, This site is the best! You already have enough to do with keeping it running etc., I'd hate for you to have to waste time ferreting out the "bad" words. Considering the subject of this site, if ever someone is going to curse, bedbugs will surely make them!

  20. theyareoutthere

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Sun Oct 30 2011 16:12:36
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    If censoring swear words takes up more of your time, I'm against having to do that. As long as someone isn't swearing at someone else on the board, I'm fine with swearing.

  21. BugsMustDie

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Sun Oct 30 2011 18:31:56
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    Swearing doesn't bother me, as long as it isn't meant to harm another user.

  22. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 7 years ago
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    Any other input? I am getting overwhelming lack of concern for swearing except if directed at someone, which is not permitted under the "be civil" rule.

    (Remember, you can give input here or via the contact form if you prefer).

  23. blargg

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    Tue Nov 1 2011 22:32:56
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    I only support cursing if it is directly aimed at cimex lectularius.

  24. rs1971

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    Nobugsonme - 44 minutes ago  » 
    Any other input? I am getting overwhelming lack of concern for swearing except if directed at someone, which is not permitted under the "be civil" rule.
    (Remember, you can give input here or via the contact form if you prefer).

    I am personally not at all bothered by swearing. I would say let it go in all but the most egregious cases - ie, two or three f-bombs in each sentence - in which case you might want to warn the poster to tone it down a bit.

    -rs1971

  25. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Tue Nov 1 2011 22:56:25
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    rs1971 - 16 minutes ago  » 

    I am personally not at all bothered by swearing. I would say let it go in all but the most egregious cases - ie, two or three f-bombs in each sentence - in which case you might want to warn the poster to tone it down a bit.
    -rs1971

    Yes, I can put in something about the amount of swearing.

  26. buggyinsocal

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Wed Nov 2 2011 9:30:43
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    In other words, if your post reads like the drummer from Metallica sounds in most interviews, that's over the line.

    Just wanted to add that *I* know that swearing at someone (other than bed bugs, who technically aren't persons) is against the rules. I'm not sure everyone knows that, so I know that it'll take some monitoring from Nobugs to deal with that. On the other hand, considering how stressed out people are and how heated these conversations often get, it's happened remarkably few times, so it's clear that most people do understand that. As usual, it's the rare outliers that create the problems.

  27. jrbtnyc

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Thu Nov 3 2011 10:55:03
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    Bump-a-dee-doo-dah

  28. jrbtnyc

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    Thu Nov 3 2011 17:50:18
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    Looks like my views on this topic of swearing - retaining some tolerance for selective, expressive, moderate, colorful use of "soft" expletives but excising the "hard" expletives entirely - are not going to be considered politically correct here in the lost-our-minds 21st century.

    In my view everyone needs to understand bedbugger.com is a high-class operation which *doesn't need hard expletives*!

    What do hard expletives contribute to the discussion?

    Can't people find ways to express themselves without leaning on that crutch, that crude cudgel of inarticulate klunks and ruffians?

    All the possibilities the English language offers, yet you head straight for the sewer?

    If you're stressed out because you have bed bugs, you need to get ahold of yourself and make up your mind to BEAT the bed bugs and find out the best ways to do that. Engaging in profanity about the bugs, in my view, is nothing but admitting the little devils have got your goat, that they have made you unable to control your emotions and your utterings, that they have caused you to lose your bearings, your decorum, your personal poise.

    Is that where you want to be psychologically?

    Maybe it's not a popular view but if it were my website I'd tell folks if they have such a craving to read and write swear words, they can go to some other bb-fighting website; and don't let the (electronic) door hit them on the way out.

    Now let's see whether, now that at least one person (me) has expressed such an unpopular opinion, anyone else surprisingly steps forward to say yay, they agree with this "back-to-basics" view and bedbugger.com will be all the better for having the gratuitous foul language under control.

    If it were my call I'd untie the gordian knot by decreeing this unilaterally as the policy and suggesting anyone who doesn't like it can go to, um, a certain place where the bb's are color-coordinated with the surroundings....

  29. AshamedandScratching

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    Thu Nov 3 2011 18:02:51
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    I don't plan on dropping f-bombs everywhere, but I do think a well placed f-bomb can be as expressive as several expressive adjectives.

  30. mam417

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    Sat Nov 5 2011 8:31:08
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    jrbtnyc - 1 day ago  » 
    Looks like my views on this topic of swearing - retaining some tolerance for selective, expressive, moderate, colorful use of "soft" expletives but excising the "hard" expletives entirely - are not going to be considered politically correct here in the lost-our-minds 21st century.
    In my view everyone needs to understand bedbugger.com is a high-class operation which *doesn't need hard expletives*!
    What do hard expletives contribute to the discussion?
    Can't people find ways to express themselves without leaning on that crutch, that crude cudgel of inarticulate klunks and ruffians?
    All the possibilities the English language offers, yet you head straight for the sewer?
    If you're stressed out because you have bed bugs, you need to get ahold of yourself and make up your mind to BEAT the bed bugs and find out the best ways to do that. Engaging in profanity about the bugs, in my view, is nothing but admitting the little devils have got your goat, that they have made you unable to control your emotions and your utterings, that they have caused you to lose your bearings, your decorum, your personal poise.
    Is that where you want to be psychologically?
    Maybe it's not a popular view but if it were my website I'd tell folks if they have such a craving to read and write swear words, they can go to some other bb-fighting website; and don't let the (electronic) door hit them on the way out.
    Now let's see whether, now that at least one person (me) has expressed such an unpopular opinion, anyone else surprisingly steps forward to say yay, they agree with this "back-to-basics" view and bedbugger.com will be all the better for having the gratuitous foul language under control.
    If it were my call I'd untie the gordian knot by decreeing this unilaterally as the policy and suggesting anyone who doesn't like it can go to, um, a certain place where the bb's are color-coordinated with the surroundings....

    I've avoided chiming in, because I didn't necessarily haven't anything relevant to add. Until now. It is not my intention to insult you, but you must be joking. Frankly, considering how life altering my own ordeal has been, I am amazed at my own restraint. I assure you that it has been a Herculean effort not to just post what would be one long expletive without any actual content. In fact, I've actually written those posts in a crazed, sleep-deprived frenzy at 3 am when I was absolutely certain things were crawling on me and would never stop. Then, I deleted them, realizing their obvious inappropriateness. But it was what I absolutely NEEDED to express at the time, and tempering my language would have only induced additional stress. NOT what I needed.

    In RL, my work requires me to utilize language that in most people would elicit only a blank stare. My attention to grammar and diction is as important as the words I am speaking, lest I be considered not credible. Something as simple as dropping a "g" (an ever-present hazard when you grew up where I did) could negate all the research and forethought that went into my presentation, so I need to be cognizant of everything I say at every moment. Additionally, I have to be cool, calm, and uneffected by the insanity that is surrounding me, unemotional and logical, no matter what calamity is unfolding at that particular moment (and there are ALWAYS calamities unfolding...)That's RL.

    THIS is where I come to vent. This is where I come to rail against the injustices of having these hideous beasts invade my home, and render me a virtual basket case. This is where I don't have to worry someone will say (as did my now FORMER SO "I don't want to hear about it anymore"). This is the ONE place I can come and ADMIT that these hideous, disgusting, vile and horrible beasts have "got your goat, that they have made you unable to control your emotions and your utterings, that they have caused you to lose your bearings, your decorum, your personal poise."

    THEY HAVE. Notwithstanding my best efforts, they have. And this is where I can talk about that. And I, or anyone else suffering similarly who comes to this site seeking assistance, information and solace, while they are frightened, and sleep-deprived, and bitten up and finanicially and emotionally depleted, cannot be worried about the expletives we may use when we don't even know what the hell we're writing. That is not "politically correct". It is merely compassionate.

  31. theyareoutthere

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    Sat Nov 5 2011 13:33:15
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    I agree with MAM417.. JRBTC is right that a lot of unnecesarry cussing and TMI reflects on the website. However, maybe people can put something in the title to identify that it is a RANT.

    My view is some people need to do it and I don't have to read it.

  32. Nobugsonme

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    Sat Nov 5 2011 15:20:18
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    This discussion might seem tedious to some bystanders, but I am finding it helpful. Any and all feedback is welcomed.

  33. jrbtnyc

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    Mon Nov 7 2011 1:16:26
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    Bump-bippity-bump-bip-per-ee

  34. KillerQueen

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    Mon Nov 7 2011 1:30:16
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    Can I curse when 75% of my clients are not done with the prep or ready to leave when I arrive?

    I mean standing there for 2 hours kind of pisses me off

  35. Nobugsonme

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    KillerQueen - 1 hour ago  » 
    Can I curse when 75% of my clients are not done with the prep or ready to leave when I arrive?
    I mean standing there for 2 hours kind of pisses me off

    I take it you're not charging by the hour...

  36. KillerQueen

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    Mon Nov 7 2011 3:09:34
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    lol .. no. But my guy gets paid by the hour.

  37. jrbtnyc

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    Mon Nov 7 2011 6:54:36
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    KillerQueen - 3 hours ago  » 
    lol .. no. But my guy gets paid by the hour.

    Your guy? !!! Is he a postgraduate student in KQU? Are you training KQ disciples to multiply and disperse throughout the USA and beyond, to smite ye bb's worldwide to extinction? Yay!!!

    (Topic for separate thread.)

  38. bedbugsuptown

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    Mon Nov 7 2011 22:27:18
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    Your guy? !!! Is he a postgraduate student in KQU? Are you training KQ disciples to multiply and disperse throughout the USA and beyond, to smite ye bb's worldwide to extinction? Yay!!!

    No, he's nothing like what you just f*n posted. He's a good lookin' guy and he ain't no clown.

    "Just because you are a character
    doesn't mean you have character."
    Winston/Wolf/Harvey Keitel in Pulp Fiction

    get a real life.

  39. bedbugsuptown

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    Mon Nov 7 2011 22:37:25
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    Sorry nobugs. Did I just crap out? trying to keep things light.........

  40. Nobugsonme

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    Mon Nov 7 2011 23:25:21
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    It's probably a good idea to take this one back on topic at this point, so there's a better chance people will participate if they have anything left to say.

  41. Nobugsonme

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    Mon Nov 14 2011 0:04:18
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    Another rule which may be necessary:

    It should go without saying but this isn't a classified site (unlike eBay) and there's no protection here if you get involved with financial transactions. For this reason, please do not offer items for sale here.

    If you are a regular forum user (not a vendor) and want to sell something once like a used Packtite, you may post the item on eBay or Craigslist and link to it once from a forum post. eBay may be a good option because it may offer you some protection if the buyer does not pay or the item does not arrive or does not work.

    And a warning:

    Although we like to think have a pretty nice community here, this is the internet. Do not assume anyone is who they say they are. Be cautious and think carefully about the possible risks before you make plans to meet someone "in real life," loan or borrow something, or exchange any personal information for any reason.

  42. Nobugsonme

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    Mon Nov 14 2011 0:06:16
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    Any other ideas are welcome.

  43. theyareoutthere

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    Mon Nov 14 2011 22:19:36
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    I agree with the additions above regarding a link and a warning.

    There seem to be more "ads" here (Packtite and dog lately) and people want more info. It seems like that should be provided at another website vs. part of the Forum discussion. That just may be me.

  44. Nobugsonme

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    Mon Nov 14 2011 22:33:18
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    theyareoutthere - 13 minutes ago  » 
    I agree with the additions above regarding a link and a warning.
    There seem to be more "ads" here (Packtite and dog lately) and people want more info. It seems like that should be provided at another website vs. part of the Forum discussion. That just may be me.

    Yes. We can't provide a space for classifieds and the sites which do this have protections built in.

  45. jrbtnyc

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    Fri Nov 18 2011 19:34:54
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    Bumpidi-bobbidi-boo

  46. BuggaPhobia

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    Sat Nov 19 2011 0:35:42
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    I'm a newbie here but I think its very considerate of the host to get everyone's opinions on the rules. I personally have no issue w/ seeing curse words. I have to say its a relief to see a forum on the internet that doesn't have "trolls". Bedbugs are a very emotionally draining situation and the last thing anyone would need would be some jerk making fun of them behind a computer screen. So kudos to nobugs for running such a supportive and informative site.:)

  47. bedbugsuptown

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    Sun Nov 20 2011 0:42:38
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    Although we like to think have a pretty nice community here, this is the internet. Do not assume anyone is who they say they are. Be cautious and think carefully about the possible risks before you make plans to meet someone "in real life," loan or borrow something, or exchange any personal information for any reason.

    Sage advice Nobugs. Spoken like a seasoned pro. Not a pco.

    I've no doubt that the majority of poster's on the boards of bedbugger.com are legit. But let us always be aware--there are twisted people out there. And the average bugger during the course of a bb infestation is frightened/exhausted/needy/etc......the perfect bait for some seasoned scumster. Thanks for the reminder nobugs.

  48. Nobugsonme

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    After much delay, I am posting the forum rules today. They are now in a new green sticky.

    If you have corrections, suggestions for clarity, or problems/disagreements, please post/discuss these below THIS post!


      Before you begin using the forums

      Before using the forums, you need to read the Terms and Conditions of Site Use. These incorporate many terms and conditions which apply to your use of the site.

      Among other things noted in the Terms and Conditions, you need to be aware that you should be careful what you post here, that you should not post personally-identifying information, and for various reasons, we can't delete your posts when you leave the site. (Exceptions may be made within reason for specific posts if you make a mistake, but it's better to avoid the problem in the first place.)

      Before posting a question, please read the FAQs about the Forums, which explain how the site works and how to do various things, and peruse the FAQs about bed bugs (either the original Bedbugger.com FAQs about bed bugs or the forum sticky with most common FAQs in an alternate index).

      Policy on suicide discussions, and threats to self or others

      The site's policy is that posts where users are talking about suicide will be closed and the user referred to professional help and other resources. If you encounter such a post, please refer the user (and post a link) to the Green Sticky, "If you are feeling suicidal or anxious..." and click the "Report this Post" link under the post to alert the admin and moderator so the thread can be closed. Please do not try and counsel people in this position.

      While wanting to write encouraging words to someone in these circumstances is admirable, unfortunately, it can also delay their getting professional help. Moreover, there have been incidents elsewhere on the internet where some readers posted hurtful comments in response to such a post, and this can be very hurtful to someone in a sensitive state. We aren't equipped to offer professional counseling, and anyone who is thinking of harming themselves or others needs to seek help immediately by speaking to an appropriate health professional, going to a hospital Emergency Room (Casualty) or calling emergency services.


      It's not a strict policy to inform the authorities if you post a suicide message here, but you should also be aware that if you threaten to harm yourself or others, admin, moderators, (and of course, any site user reading the post) may choose to call law enforcement at their discretion.
      Although you are posting here anonymously, your IP address is tracked (per the Privacy Policy) and we do have your email; if law enforcement asks, we would be legally obliged to share such information. If you threaten harm to self or others, you should be aware that we may share your information with law enforcement.

      Anonymity and posting personally-identifying information

      Please do not post personally-identifying information (yours or that of other users if they have shared it with you).

      The exception is that professionals may wish to use their own real names and tell us which business they work for if this is not clear or well-known. If someone has used their real name on the forums (e.g. Jeff White, whose username includes his name, or David Cain, who signs his messages as such, or Lou Sorkin whose handle loubugs is well known to forum users), it's fine to refer to them by name.

      Most forum users who are not entomologists or otherwise in the bed bug industry prefer to use anonymous usernames, and not to post private information, since this site is indexed by Google. If you post your information, someone searching for your name, email, etc. will be stumbling upon this website for a long time. (Note that automated bots search the internet for email addresses to use for spam, so posting your email address on the forums isn't even a great idea if you are a well-known industry figure.) Be sure and read what the Terms and Conditions say about posting personally-identifying information.

      Policy on commercial and promotional activity

      If you're a bed bug industry professional who sells bed bug supplies, offers bed bug treatment, or runs a bed bug information website, please do not use the forums for promotional purposes. The site runs ads, and you can find out more about this here.

      If the main purpose of your post in a thread is to drive traffic to your website or advertise your business, it's a form of spam. This pattern will generally be more transparent to others than you may think, and can lead to being banned.

      Please do not link to your own website(s) in your posts. You may link to your website from your username. (Use the space in your profile for a URL.) The exception would be if you run a non-commercial bed bug-related website and are judiciously referring to and linking to specific articles on your site that are relevant to the thread.

      If you are in the bed bug industry, please do not put your phone number or address in posts. You may include your real name, and readers can find your website by clicking your username.

      Disclosure of relationships

      If you post about a product or service, you must disclose your financial connection to the firm or any freebies you've gotten (or other compensation) from the firm. This applies to consumers and professionals alike, according to FTC rules regarding endorsements implemented in 2009 which cover forum posts and blog posts and comments (some information on this here).

      Do not pretend to be a customer if you have a connection with a business. It is often quite apparent to us even if you think it isn't, and if we find evidence of this you may be embarrassed, and the firm that pays you will look bad.


      Policy on classifieds

      Even if you are not in the bed bug product/service business, please do not post offers to sell or donate secondhand bed bug-related merchandise. Consumers selling one item (for example, a used Packtite) may post such offers on eBay or Craigslist, and then post a link here in a new thread (once) referring us to it. Going through a site like eBay offers security to buyers and sellers, and it means the transactions take place under the aegis and rules of the relevant site. If you post to eBay or Craigslist but prefer that someone from this site get the item, you may ask them to mention they saw the post here and to give you their username for confirmation.

      Policy on requesting or offering bed bugs for free or for sale

      Please do not ask for or offer bed bugs for sale or for free on the site. [Note: this is currently spelled out in more detail in this post.] In most cases, we are unable to verify who you are and what your purposes are, or that the shipment will be done in a safe and legal manner. Ultimately, we want to be sure bed bugs aren't accidentally spread, or used for sinister purposes. If you are a legitimate researcher attached to a laboratory, please email the admin to discuss your situation -- we will likely make exceptions for legitimate research once your status has been verified somehow.

      Warning about internet safety

      Although we like to think have a pretty nice community here, this is the internet. Do not assume anyone is who they say they are (including people who claim to be professionals). Be cautious and think carefully about the possible risks before you make plans to meet someone "in real life," loan or borrow something, or exchange any personal information for any reason.

      Netiquette and community customs

      Civility

      Please do be civil to others. Attacking ideas is okay, attacking people is not. It should be obvious that calling others names is not permitted.

      Giving Advice

      Please do not give advice on anything you're not qualified to give advice about. This is tricky, in terms of rules, because to some degree, you have to regulate yourself.

      Most consumers -- even those who have self-treated their homes -- should not be giving advice on which pesticides to buy and how to use them, for example, telling people to buy DE or how to apply DE. If we have a FAQ on it (like DE or steam), please direct people to those. If you don't agree with those FAQs or think something should be added, then please make a suggestion about that. Remember there are qualified experts here who may be willing to answer questions about pesticides and you can direct users to them.

      Most consumers should not be identifying pest photos.

      There may be exceptions. For example, I am not an expert but can ID shiny spider beetles and cockroaches from twenty paces, and can tell you if you probably have a bed bug. (Probably, because closely-related species like Swallow Bugs and Bat Bugs can't always easily be ruled out from photos.) I've even on occasion identified a bug as a closely-related species, but I deferred to our expert entomologists for the final ID. Some other long-time users are also good at identifying specific bugs, and some like spideyjg have much more encyclopedic knowledge than I do.

      So if you're a consumer and you're absolutely sure about a bug ID, it's okay to respond, but in other cases, please leave bug IDs to expert professionals or more experienced consumers.

      Remember that incorrectly suggesting something is or isn't a bed bug can put another forum user on an emotional roller coaster ride until the experts ride in and correct you, and think how you'd feel if you experienced that. Remember a consumer might not even stick around to get the conflicting ID, and then you just sent someone away wrongly thinking they had, or didn't have, bed bugs.

      Cross-posting

      Please do not post the same message on multiple threads. If you come across a post where readers may be interested in something else you wrote, you may link to that post (the # symbol next to your post is a permalink: copy the URL and use it to link directly to your post). Please do not do this excessively.

      Responding to old discussion threads

      When you read an old thread, consider carefully whether to reply. Doing so will "bump" the thread to current status. If you do this for a thread which is old, you are likely replying to a question asked by someone who may be long gone. (Clicking a user's profile tells you when they last logged in; looking at any post tells you when it was posted.) The other reason you might not want to reactivate old threads is that they will push "down" more recent threads in the list of current discussions.

      Language

      When asked, the community seemed to agree that we did not want to ban outright the use of swear words or other colorful language, but that users should try to moderate their language use with the understanding that we come from many different cultures and life experiences with different expectations and levels of tolerance about swearing.

      The odd swearword may be entirely appropriate. However, if your use of expletives is excessive or habitual, we might delete your posts, ban you, or ask you to stop. As beloved long-time Bedbugger buggyinsocal aptly noted,

      buggyinsocal - 10 months ago »
      In other words, if your post reads like the drummer from Metallica sounds in most interviews, that's over the line.

      It should also go without saying that swearing at other users is not permitted (see section on Civility above).

      Finally, PLEASE DON'T SHOUT! Using all caps on internet forums is considered to be like shouting.


    Again, questions/comments/feedback/warm fuzzies/complaints/corrections below, please!

  49. Nobugsonme

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    Mon Sep 17 2012 15:52:24
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    Change to wording here:

    Among other things noted in the Terms and Conditions, you need to be aware that you should be careful what you post here, that you should not post personally-identifying information, and for various reasons, we can't delete your posts when you leave the site. (Exceptions may be made within reason for specific posts to edit or delete specific posts if you make a mistake, but it's better to avoid the problem in the first place.)

  50. P Bello

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    Mon Sep 17 2012 16:21:28
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    So I saw the post on the "new rules" and had to read it because I'm one of those guys who's probably going to be breaking the rules on a regular basis due to the following:

    1. Impatiance Combined With Limited Time:
    Think back boys & girls, were you one of those kids that actually read the rules of Monopoly or did you just open the box, dig in, roll the dice and start playing? (Guess which type I am. Doesn't make me a bad person but I am who I am.) As such, it's been difficult for me to observe and comply with rules that I haven't read yet. Now I have but, history being what it is . . .

    2. Poor Attitude:
    Do I qualify as having a poor attitude if my first thought when reading this post head line is: "Rules, we don't need no stinking rules!" (Think "Badges" for those of you who enjoy movie line references.)

    3. Holy Sh#t, cuss words !
    So, hear I am reading through all thecomments on this post when I'm about 2/3 the way thru before I notice that the comments I'm reading are like over a year old like. And I'm like wtf, right? I mean if that's the way you like talk, I'm OK with it as long as you're like not dissin me right? Word, right, yeah! You feel me right?

    So, if thats how we word, then it is what it is. I figure if you are like all bit up by bugs then you oughtta be ale to spress yoself right, I mean, right ! Yeah, thats right, word !

    So this dude calls me an I say Sup? he's like bro, I'm all bit wit dees effin bugz. An I'm like thinking dude, don't be droppin the ef bees here but I'm also like, if he's gettin bit then he needs to spress hisself rite? An I'm like rite ! So, I'm like kool wit dat if itz gotta be dat way, rite.

    Anywayz, dis is a bitchin site dat helps a lotta peeps, so itz all good, itz kool !

    peace out ! pb

  51. bed-bugscouk

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    Mon Sep 17 2012 16:28:35
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    It's OK Paul there is always the naughty corner for you from time to time

    I would suggest just close your eyes, take a deep breath, count to 10 and think of what I would say in that situation and but I know it will only make you laugh.

    David

  52. Nobugsonme

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    Mon Sep 17 2012 16:49:23
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    P Bello - 25 minutes ago  » 

    1. Impatiance Combined With Limited Time:

    Not an excuse for not reading and abiding by the rules, sorry.

    2. Poor Attitude:
    Do I qualify as having a poor attitude if my first thought when reading this post head line is: "Rules, we don't need no stinking rules!" (Think "Badges" for those of you who enjoy movie line references.)

    I understand the reaction, but everyone seems to take different things as a "given". This levels the playing field.

    For example, this week alone I have had four people ask me to delete all their posts (which the Terms and Conditions states can't be done) -- so it seems like a lot of people do need the rule, "Read the Terms and Conditions." And it seems like we do (for the same reason) need to remind people to be careful what they post.

    3. Holy Sh#t, cuss words !
    So, hear I am reading through all thecomments on this post when I'm about 2/3 the way thru before I notice that the comments I'm reading are like over a year old like. And I'm like wtf, right? I mean if that's the way you like talk, I'm OK with it as long as you're like not dissin me right? Word, right, yeah! You feel me right?

    So, if thats how we word, then it is what it is. I figure if you are like all bit up by bugs then you oughtta be ale to spress yoself right, I mean, right ! Yeah, thats right, word !

    Um, Paul, did you actually READ the rules? The section on language says it is okay to use expletives, within reason. That means you can actually say, "What the fuck?" if you feel it's appropriate.

    But it also reminds you that you might not want to do this all the time as it turns others off. We're a diverse group: pottymouths, prudes, and everything in-between.

    I know you're having fun but I'm trying to see how the policy on swearing could be more generous, frankly.

    Anyway, yes, much of this thread is about ten months old, and the reason I revived it was because it was about the new rules and here they are, so let's keep the discussion here.

    However, I've now added a new link at the very top so people can SKIP the old discussion and go right to the current one.

  53. P Bello

    oldtimer
    Joined: Nov '11
    Posts: 4,863

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Mon Sep 17 2012 17:03:31
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    Yes, I did but, I can't color and stay in the lines very well.

    I blame myself. : )

    Actually, I think the site is doing very well and when there's a violation of acceptable behavior it will be readily apparent.

    Thus far all the kids seem to be playing together rather well and hopefully, it will continue.

    Thanks for al you're efforts IMO, you're doing an excellent job at this so don't change an effing thing ! ! !

    Have a nice day ! paul b.

  54. Nobugsonme

    your host
    Joined: Mar '07
    Posts: 22,253

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Mon Sep 17 2012 22:34:24
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    Thanks, Paul. I will count that response as "warm fuzzies" which are always welcome.

    Still open to input if others have any.

  55. luckybobito

    newbite
    Joined: Apr '16
    Posts: 2

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Sun Apr 17 2016 12:43:22
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    OH MY GOD PLEASE COME BACK TO SITE AND HELP!!!!

    IF YOU NOTICE A MOLDY MIL-DEWY SMELL, AND YOU FIND WHAT LOOKS TO BE BED BUG POOP ON PAPER, THEN FIND WHAT LOOKS TO BE A LEFT BEHIND BODY SHELL ON THE WALL ABOVE, WHERE YOU FOUND THE POOP....ON THE BACK SIDE OF A WALL HANGING THERMOMETER.....THAT JUST SO HAPPENS TO BE ABOVE WHERE THE ODD SMELL IS COMING FROM.....THEN YOU MOVE THE POOPED ON PAPER AND THERMOMETER TO ANOTHER SPOT IN THE ROOM AND START SHUFFLING THE STUFF IN THAT AREA...AND THEN ALL THE SUDDEN YOU NO LONGER SMELL THAT "ODD SMELL", DOES THAT MEAN YOU DO HAVE BED BUGS AND THEY JUST MOVED TO ANOTHER SPOT?
    My daughter has been infested for who knows how long, and her daughter has been coming to my house for, well every weekend for forever! My mattress and box spring is full of warn holes all around them, they are old. I have not seen a bug yet, but found a blood spot (red) on sheet, maybe more and forgot. Also 2 unexplained red welts on me I assumed were pimples, and granddaughter has had two different occasions where she has gotten into my bed, been there for 10 or so minutes and bam! huge red welts on her hand or leg/foot! That is very itchy! Nobody believes me when I say I have bb. But since my daughter has been so infested.....I can't imagine how I can't have them. Especially with these symptoms
    But again, main question.....since smell is gone, do you think I may have disturbed their nest and they have moved?
    Any insight helpful...
    Thanks,
    Sickened

  56. Nobugsonme

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    Joined: Mar '07
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    Posted 3 years ago
    Sun Apr 17 2016 23:24:42
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    Hi Sickened,
    Please start a new thread and copy and paste your post there. This is a four year old thread on another topic, and you are not likely to get a good response this way. If you don't know how to start a new thread, this FAQ (How to use the forums) answers that question and more.


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