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Pesticides, MS and other illness

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  1. bughouse

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    Posted 12 years ago
    Tue Jul 17 2007 12:19:21
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    I have been living an organic lifestyle and avoiding pesticides but have just discovered bed bugs. I also have had one attack of MS. I am told that the pesticides used to treat bedbugs are neurotoxins which cause exacerbations of multiple sclerosis as well as other illnesses such as cancer and asthma The pesticides my exterminator mentioned are Suspend and Cy-kick. Has anyone experienced the health effects of living with property poisoned by these chemicals? The toxicity reports are more frightening than bed bug bites. Is my fear exaggerated? Has anyone eliminated bedbegs without them?

  2. (deleted)

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    Posted 12 years ago
    Tue Jul 17 2007 12:29:31
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    Depending on where you live, the following non-pesticide treatments may be available, in combination or otherwise: thermal, steam, diatomaceous earth, and extensive, deep, thorough cleaning. I hesitate to add enzyme cleaners, but a lot of people swear by them. These methods, accompanied by standard isolation techniques, followed rigorously and with extensive and careful (and very frequent) follow-ups, might be a solution for you.

    Unfortunately, we do not know too many people who have succeeded without pesticides.

  3. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 12 years ago
    Tue Jul 17 2007 17:47:31
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    If you live in a smaller building, like a single or double family home, Vikane gas is an option. The bugs get gassed while you are out of the home, so it's supposed to be safe.

    If you tell us what kind of home you live in and what city, it would help.

    I started and run the site but am "not an expert."
  4. (deleted)

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    Posted 12 years ago
    Tue Jul 17 2007 22:47:44
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    Vikane could have persistence issues.

    A long shot would be to contact the US pest control firm that imported cryonite technology units which to our knowledge have not yet been deployed, and the company may not even intend them for bedbug treatments, but you might contact them to discuss it. Expense is anyone's guess.

  5. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 12 years ago
    Tue Jul 17 2007 22:49:52
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    Nomo, do you have any information on vikane persisting? I'd be interested in that.

    In any case, I sense more people are doing Thermal than Cryonite. But both are worth a shot for you, Bughouse.

    Good luck!

  6. (deleted)

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    Posted 12 years ago
    Tue Jul 17 2007 22:57:50
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    I think the MSDS only has the half-life at 3 days, but anti pesticide groups say different, like this one. 40 days persistence in porous materials according to them.

    I have not looked at this extensively. I imagine it's controversial.

  7. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 12 years ago
    Wed Jul 18 2007 0:10:47
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    Thanks Nomo, it's a good resource. I added it to the FAQ on VIkane.

  8. nightshirt

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    Posted 12 years ago
    Wed Jul 18 2007 13:46:05
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    what is "persistence" how long the treatment lasts? what is msds only has the half-life at 3 days mean?

    i have not been keeping up. thanks.

  9. (deleted)

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    Posted 12 years ago
    Wed Jul 18 2007 16:40:01
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    Half-life is a measure of persistence, how long before a pesticide degrades, chemically. I guess it's not the same as actual persistence in the environment since that would depend on multiple variables in the specific environment (sunlight, temperature, solubility, etc.).

    Anyway, half-life indicates how long before half of the initially applied amount degrades. A half-life of 3 days should indicate that after 3 days, 50% of the original amount persists; after another 3 days, 25%; etc.

    In medicine they use a half-life factor of 5 to calculate when a dose reaches close to zero. I don't know if that's how it works with pesticide chemistry. The hydrolysis (reaction with water) half-life range indicated in the Material Safety Data Sheet was 18 minutes to 3 days. 3 x 5 = 15 days.

    I'm obviously just a layperson and I could be getting significant aspects of this wrong.

    Vikane is a gas that is said to rapidly aerate.

    The concern expressed by the referenced anti-pesticide group is that "some porous materials like wool fabric or polyester cushion fiber continue to release Vikane up to 40 days after fumigation."

    For those doing their own research, the Vikane MSDS (PDF) is here and this PDF is a technical document, a health risk assessment, from the California Environmental Protection Agency.

  10. (deleted)

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    Posted 12 years ago
    Wed Jul 18 2007 16:51:56
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    I wouldn't want to lay my head on a pillow that had been Vikaned. I know Vikane is not cyanide, but still.

    Apropos of cyanide (not Vikane! lest anyone is confused), in this ABC story from 2003, the author of a history of the pest control industry relates how cyanide fumigation in the 20s would cause deaths because:

    "The gas tended to cling to feather beds or feather pillows and many people died in their sleep after their homes were fumigated, especially babies in their cribs."

    Again, the above quote is NOT about Vikane. I just found it interesting...

  11. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 12 years ago
    Thu Jul 19 2007 0:19:29
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    They have tested cryonite in the UK where it is commercially available. The test home that they made a documentary about was recently a client of mine. The cryonite was used about 6 times and we visited twice, the problem is now resolved.

    I am not saying it is not an effective weapon but it should only be used by someone who knows a lot about bed bugs and where they occupy within a room.

    I was offered one on lease but to be honest if I was going down that path there are much better thermal agents and methods that I would investigate first.

    On the OP subject I would advise that you ask for a copy of the MSDS sheets for the products used and do your own research. Most of all you need to understand that we all react to our environments in a unique way and if you have had MS or Neuro issues in the past the best advice you can get will be froma medical professional.

    Regards,

    David Cain
    http://www.bed-bugs.co.uk

    I am happy to answer questions in public but will not reply to message sent directly or via my company / social media. I am here to help everyone and not just one case at a time.

    In accordance with the AUP and FTC I openly disclose my vested interest in Passive Monitors as the inventor and patent holder. Since 2009 they have become an integral part in how we resolve bed bug infestations. I also have a professional relationship with PackTite in that they distribute my product under their own branding. I do not however receive any financial remuneration for any comments I make about pro
  12. parakeets

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    Posted 12 years ago
    Thu Jul 19 2007 11:08:55
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    When I went to the bedbug convention in Herndon VA last September, I met a man whose company did thermal bedbug treatments. He said they did a lot of nursing homes with people who were immuno-compromised due to chemotherapy and other illnesses. He said there are people who cannot tolerate any pesticides whatsoever and the thermal treatment absolutely works. It's somewhat expensive, but if they allow it where you live, it would be the way to go.

    I'd have it except that I live in an apartment, and you have to do an entire building. Thermal treatment also kills eggs and most companies can guarantee their work, it is so effective a killer of bedbugs. If you think of the cost of total kill, versus several repeated visits for partial kill, it might be even more cost-effective than many applications of pesticides.

  13. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 12 years ago
    Thu Jul 19 2007 11:15:38
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    Parakeets,
    According to a local expert on pest control, thermal does NOT have to be done in the whole building. IN fact, the heat is increased to 140 F very quickly so that bed bugs can theoretically be killed in the local area before they're able to migrate. (This is apparently just one reason why DIY thermal does not work.) I believe this is very promising.
    The fuel isn't legal in NYC right now but in other areas this is a real option.

  14. parakeets

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    Posted 12 years ago
    Thu Jul 19 2007 11:44:11
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    I stand corrected and totally agree! Yes, only the infested units have to be treated. I was thinking of a building like my building where the whole building has bedbugs when I wrote the sentence and it came out wrong. Thanks for correcting it. I've even heard of condos where they treat some units with standard pesticide treatments, and they treat other units where people who are having chemotherapy with a heat method.

  15. BakedBedBugs

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Wed Dec 19 2007 13:06:57
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    nobugsonme, which fuel is illegal in New York?

  16. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Wed Dec 19 2007 13:46:02
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    BakedBBs,

    Please see my response here.

  17. Winston O. Buggy

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Wed Dec 19 2007 17:10:38
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    This sounds like a good case for dry steam, DE and possible enzymes.


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