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Passive monitor placement on an Ikea Poang rocking chair

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  1. murielandthebug

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    Posted 3 months ago
    Mon Jun 10 2019 15:00:07
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    My family's bb saga is mostly on this thread. But I wanted to break out here to ask a specific question (hopefully to get the attention of bed-bugscouk).

    I've gotten 2 rounds of bites in the past week, but my wife and son haven't gotten any. There are no signs of any in our beds, and the passive monitors in beds and living room sofa appear to be clear.

    My latest theory is that a bug might have made its home in the rocking chair next to my 3 year old's toddler bed. I sit in that chair every night for a few minutes as we are putting him to bed around 9pm. And both of my rounds of bites have come shortly after that. I'm the only person who sits in that rocking chair at night time.

    I'd like to place a passive monitor on that chair, but I can't quite figure out the best place to put it. Here is a picture of the chair in question:

    I originally tried placing the monitor underneath the chair at the leading edge, but the bottom of the chair is a kind of plasticy mesh. It stayed put for about 12 hours until I sat in the rocking chair and it fell out.

    I next moved it to here:

    Problem is, the monitor is taller on the short side than this slat, so there are currently 2 sticky long edges jutting out, top and bottom (I centered the monitor on the slat). I also have it facing toward the back of the chair. Will this still function when it's jutting out partially? And should it be facing forward instead? I can't guarantee my 3 year old isn't going to try to pry it off if it's facing forward from the chair.

    The only other place I could think to place it was on the upperside of the mesh base of the chair, underneath the seat cushion, facing up. Would that be a better location to place it?

    My only other thought on how to handle this would be to run the chair cushion through our ZappBug for a few hours and take a blowdryer to individual seams and joints on the chair frame.

  2. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 3 months ago
    Mon Jun 10 2019 15:15:21
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    Hi,

    The correct install is on the underside of the seat level with the front edge of the seat in the middle although when not installed in advance we also tend to find them in the crease that runs below the head rest area.

    Hope that helps.

    David Cain
    Bed Bugs Limited

    If you have found this information helpful please consider leaving feedback on social media via google+ or FaceBook or by like/loving the images.

    In accordance with the AUP and FTC (legal requirements) I openly disclose my vested interest in Passive Monitors as the inventor and patent holder. Since 2009 they have become an integral part in how we resolve bed bug infestations. I also have a professional relationship with PackTite in that they distribute my product under their own branding. I do not however receive any financial remuneration for any comments I make about products.
  3. murielandthebug

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    Posted 3 months ago
    Mon Jun 10 2019 15:45:33
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    bed-bugscouk - 27 minutes ago  » 

    The correct install is on the underside of the seat level with the front edge of the seat in the middle

    I get that that is the ideal placement location, the problem is: I can't get it to stick and stay to the underside due to the nature of the underside material. With that in mind, is there a decent alternative location?

    As you mentioned the crease of the headrest, should I try putting the monitor under the headrest? The headrest pictured on this chair is simply the cushion folding over on itself, forming a double cushion area. I could easily stick the monitor in there. Or should I try adhering the monitor on the chair frame behind the headrest?

    Thanks for the quick reply!

  4. Iwantmylifeback

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    Posted 3 months ago
    Mon Jun 10 2019 16:19:44
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    Hi ..sorry to come to your tread but if I were you I would have steamed that chair !

  5. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 3 months ago
    Mon Jun 10 2019 16:26:03
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    Hi,

    The adhesive cures in location.

    If you turn the chair upside down and attach them place a weight on top overnight it should stick. In most cases so long as the tape is fresh it will adhere first time.

    As for steaming the chair, it’s always best to inspect first and steam only when and where needed as it has zero residual action and random steaming might just be the number one waste of time.

    David

  6. murielandthebug

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    Posted 3 months ago
    Mon Jun 10 2019 16:28:34
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    Iwantmylifeback - 5 minutes ago  » 
    Hi ..sorry to come to your tread but if I were you I would have steamed that chair !

    Easier said than done. I don't have easy access to a steamer.

  7. murielandthebug

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    Posted 3 months ago
    Mon Jun 10 2019 16:41:13
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    bed-bugscouk - 4 minutes ago  » 
    The adhesive cures in location.
    If you turn the chair upside down and attach them place a weight on top overnight it should stick. In most cases so long as the tape is fresh it will adhere first time.
    As for steaming the chair, it’s always best to inspect first and steam only when and where needed as it has zero residual action and random steaming might just be the number one waste of time.

    OK, I'll see if I can get the chair out tonight to attempt applying a fresh one to the mesh bottom, since I guess the adhesive is shot in the one I've been using. Hopefully I can get it out without my son complaining (ha).

    While I have this new passive monitoring thread going, I'm going to get out all of my passive treatment questions. Next up:

    Is it important to use Packtite monitors over BBAlert monitors? I previously purchased a bunch of BBAlert monitors before I saw a thread on here where you (bed-bugscouk) mentioned that Packtites trump BBAlerts. Are there major differences between these, or will the BBAlerts still work? My current stock is 2 BBAlerts and 4 Packtites. I was planning to use up the BBAlerts before trying the Packtites, but I could always make the switch now.

  8. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 3 months ago
    Mon Jun 10 2019 17:17:53
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    Hi,

    One of the differences is that the adhesive spec on the PackTite Passives is the latest version. The older adhesive does not stick as well to fabrics.

    There are also other more subtle differences and I am sure you can appreciate that re-tooling comes at a significant cost so deciding to do it we had to feel it was worthwhile.

    If you bought them recently I would suggest returning them and asking for the fresh stock to replace it.

    David

  9. murielandthebug

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    Posted 3 months ago
    Tue Jun 11 2019 17:13:34
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    So far so good on the POANG. I used a new Packtite and pressed it down with a dictionary and a dutch oven overnight.

    As I mentioned, I'm gonna try to get out all my cheap ikea furniture questions in this thread!

    Next up, the FRIHETEN sleeper sofa with storage compartments. The pictures below are going to show the couch folded out, but we primarily use this folded up as a couch like this:

    I know the suggestion for sofas is to put the monitor underneath the leading edge, set about an inch back. This couch does not have a wide enough bottom side at the leading edge though. As seen in this foldout photo:

    The red lines indicate my best guess for where to place the monitor. That is about an inch up from the leading edge, on the inner wall of the fold out portion. It's a real pain in the butt to check: usually involves propping up the fold out enough for me to wedge myself under it with a hand mirror.

    In your experience, will this monitor location suffice? Or do you have a recommendation for a better location to place it?

    If this is at all confusing, this diagram might give you a better idea of what's going on. Once again, I have already placed a monitor on the inner wall shown, facing in to the rest of the couch.

    Thanks!

  10. murielandthebug

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    Posted 3 months ago
    Wed Jun 12 2019 0:33:22
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    One note of clarification (because I can already guess what David will say). There is a solid underside parallel to the floor, but this is about 4+ inches back from the leading edge of the couch. I could place a monitor there, but I worry it is too far back.

  11. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 3 months ago
    Thu Jun 13 2019 12:29:06
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    Hi,

    Is the sofa to be used mainly in sofa mode or nightly in sofa mode?

    Its use as a bed would mean it needs to be installed as a bed at the head end but as a sofa it will depend on what is the main occupied seat on the sofa and then the design suggests down that side arm rather than on the front.

    Hope that's clear.

    David

  12. murielandthebug

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    Posted 3 months ago
    Thu Jun 13 2019 14:16:01
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    bed-bugscouk - 1 hour ago  » but as a sofa it will depend on what is the main occupied seat on the sofa and then the design suggests down that side arm rather than on the front

    Primarily used as a sofa, with most sitting on either end (I can make sure to focus my sitting on a particular end for capture purposes).

    I'm going to guess you mean something like this:

    Note that the red box location in the above image is set below seat cushion level when the unit is folded up in sofa mode:

  13. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 3 months ago
    Thu Jun 13 2019 16:45:13
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    Hi,

    If it’s mainly in sofa mode slide it down between the arm and the cushion on the side most say on. You don’t even need to stick it down. The label should face the arm but it’s not critical to do so.

    David

  14. murielandthebug

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    Posted 3 months ago
    Thu Jun 13 2019 22:08:30
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    bed-bugscouk - 5 hours ago  » 

    slide it down between the arm and the cushion on the side most say on. You don’t even need to stick it down. The label should face the arm but it’s not critical to do so.

    For anyone searching for this Ikea couch who reads this, I will share this detail: you will still need to stick it down. The way this couch is set up, the cushion will hold it against the arm until you open up the couch, at which point the monitor will slide down through the couch to the floor. And it will be in a tight enough slot that you'll have to jack the couch up a little to pull it out. This seems like enough violent action that it might knock its inhabitants out before you've had a chance to inspect.

    One concern I have: will it be a problem that sitting on the couch presses on the cushion enough to expose the monitor to light? See below:

    The top of the monitor is still a good 2 inches deep from cushion level, this is simply a top down view with compression on the cushion. If I placed the monitor any lower, it would slide into that aforementioned small slot in the the sofa frame, making both visual inspection and removal difficult.

    For the time being, I'm leaving a throw pillow on this end of the couch when I sit there, basically covering the top of the monitor.

  15. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 3 months ago
    Fri Jun 14 2019 11:22:21
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    Hi,

    The concept that bedbugs shy away from light is a myth, they don't seek the darkest locations they seek certain features.

    If your worried about it falling use the tape to stick it in place.

    This may mean you need to slide the cushions forward to get the best inspection angle.

    As for knocking them out, I would suggest you watch the videos and see the force I need to use to "tap test" the bedbugs out of the monitors, 90% of the time it takes enough shock to break the top pins from the bottom plate. An organism with tarsal claws does not simply fall off or out of a rough surface.

    In an ideal world furniture would be better designed and while I have been happy to channel my inner Philip Stark and design minimalist yet functional beds, I fear my time is possibly more productively spent elsewhere.

    IF you are self constructing I would advise a refresh of the optimization of furniture guide as you may as well optimize as you build.

    David

  16. murielandthebug

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    Posted 2 months ago
    Sun Jun 30 2019 0:24:17
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    Twice in the past ~month (May 28 and today, June 29) I have spotted live bedbugs in the exact same spot (just one each time). For confirmation on that, I have posted pictures in this thread. Links to bugs from May and June.

    For anyone reading this thread later after searching for Ikea furniture names: please know that all of my passives are currently clear. I'm pretty sure no bugs have settled down into nests in our apartment yet. Aside from the two live catches, I haven't found any other bed bug evidence: fecal stains, casings, dead bugs. Bites have been limited to ones connected to the catch from a month ago before I put passives throughout the apartment. This post is not a statement on the effectiveness of Packtite or BBAlert passive monitors. Using them as our last line of defense is still a work in progress, and I hope to post updates as they occur.

    Anyway, here's my question for this post: Should I put a passive monitor at the location where I have twice now spotted live bedbugs? Here are details about the location in question:

    It's an Ikea extendable dining room table (Bjursta) that looks like this:

    We have one of the long edges placed up against a wall in our living room. I was sitting at one of the short edges both times I spotted a bug walking across the table. It should be noted, the table's construction is not simple underneath. It's extendable with the extra leaves stored inside the table, looking something like this:

    Our chairs are plastic Teodores:

    Should I consider putting a passive monitor on this table or one of our chairs? Or should we assume that any bugs let loose in our apartment will normally not be caught by me out in the open, and will eventually make it to a monitor in one of our beds or upholstered chairs? Thus making it pointless to monitor at the table?

  17. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 2 months ago
    Sun Jun 30 2019 6:25:00
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    Hi,

    Generally tables and chairs of this type are not good homes for bedbugs unless they are also used for working long hours.

    Rather than monitoring I would be more concerned with logging activities to look for a pattern as to how they are being introduced.

    I have had a number of clients over the years who get good at “spotting upon introduction”, these are invariably unfed “hungry” bugs who have not established a routine yet. It’s a completely valid form of control to catch them and thus deal with the issue. However this is not long term sustainable behaviour and this is why you have the safety net of monitoring in place.

    Back in my early career (circa 2004) I happened to meet two clients in the home of one ongoing case. Seems the friends shared more than the occasional cup of tea and had not told each other of their overlapping issue.

    Equally this week I spoke to someone about an extreme case in California because the link between a London case was a repeat visitor. We don’t like to think of our 86 year old visitors having issues and this one may take months to resolve.

    So for me the faster way to the answer you want is trace the source person or activity rather than monitoring the table and chairs.

    Hope that makes sense.

    David

  18. murielandthebug

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    Posted 2 months ago
    Sun Jun 30 2019 14:13:45
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    bed-bugscouk - 7 hours ago  » 
    Hope that makes sense.

    Thanks for the response, David. It makes sense. I was already planning to go back to our building management to see if they could inspect neighboring units. We have asked them repeatedly over the last year to do this, and I think we are finally getting them to budge. They (and their regular PCO) initially insisted "bed bugs don't move between apartments." After their last inspection they said they would inspect our neighbors (though I think they simply meant knock on doors and ask... and only if people happened to be home on a weekday morning!).

    Is there any kind of empirical evidence I can look for or observe that would point to our visitors coming from a neighboring unit?

    Throughout the past year our management has been incredulous with us. If I take their reaction on good faith, it would seem that no one else in the building is having this problem. Surely over this much time someone else would be itching like mad and would have said or done something. So I'm starting to pursue other possibilities as well. My wife works from home, so she has an alibi. But I work in an office in Manhattan and my son goes to a private preschool for 2-4 year olds. Both locations should probably be inspected by professionals so they can be ruled out.

    The social stigma is real though, and I'm worried about approaching anyone to ask them to inspect. After we get our next PCO inspection at home and they once again find no evidence, my plan is to ask the management or PCO to write me a simple letter stating that they inspected and they found no evidence of a bed bug infestation. I'm going to take that letter to my employer and my son's school as kind of a defense to the initial revulsion everyone has for bed bugs, but also as a way of compelling them to take the issue seriously. I'm most worried about the preschool; they have unfortunately demonstrated that they're not above revoking a child's admission for frivolous reasons, and since they're a private organization, they retain the right to do so.

  19. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 2 months ago
    Sun Jun 30 2019 15:54:58
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    Hi,

    For an assortment of reasons dinning rooms are not likely to be rooms connected with adjoins unit spread. That would be more bedrooms and bathroom sightings of a sporadic nature.

    Try reading what I wrote without shifting any of the blame outside of the people who have used that room in the 3 days prior to sightings.

    David

  20. murielandthebug

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    Posted 2 months ago
    Sun Jun 30 2019 19:10:58
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    bed-bugscouk - 3 hours ago  » 
    Try reading what I wrote without shifting any of the blame outside of the people who have used that room in the 3 days prior to sightings.

    I hear what you are saying, and I hope what I wrote conveys that I'm starting to agree with you. Previously my gut instinct was to assume neighbors and blame the management for inactivity. I'm coming around on the idea that the source might be connected to one of us and our movements around the city.

    The only people in that room for 3 days prior were myself, my wife, and our 3 year old son. I go back and forth between my office and home, with a stop-off in the morning to drop my son off at daycare. My wife works from home and on most weekdays, her only outside stop is that same daycare to pickup our son. There are occasional stops at the market for food.

    It sounds like there are two candidates for a source: 1) daycare/preschool, since all 3 of us go there at different times of day, and my son and all his classmates nap there every afternoon, and 2) my office. A distant 3rd might be the NYC subway system, though it seems like it might be incredibly bad luck to pick them up there on multiple occasions.

    Thank you for your reply!

  21. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 2 months ago
    Mon Jul 1 2019 0:02:53
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    Hi,

    With the additional information I put the odds at:

    1% adjoining neighbor
    10% your work location
    89% public transport (assuming you sit)

    If you are prepared to consider it there is a huge evolutionary advantage to an insect that can make its host become less focused and able to logically resolve the issue. There are many examples of complex parasite host interactions such as the toxic plasma gondii and it’s ability to make rodents affectionate to cats.

    Your focus on others as the source delays your resolution and could be an indication of a highly specific defense mechanism. The key words in your case are “personal responsibility” and literally if you continue to seek to blame others you delay your own resolution. An effective and legitimate survival strategy.

    David

  22. murielandthebug

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    Posted 2 months ago
    Mon Jul 1 2019 10:27:42
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    bed-bugscouk - 10 hours ago  » 
    89% public transport (assuming you sit)

    I think I'm starting to get on your nerves, David, and I apologize for that. I'm about to go at it again, but just as a matter of explaining: The reason I put subway at a distant 3rd is because I'm not one of these routine commuters who catches the same train every morning at a specific time, always sitting in the same seat next to the same people. My travel is incredibly variable, different times, different train lines, different cars. That's why I said I thought I must be incredibly unlucky to get them from the subway.

    But I have enough integrity to admit my thinking is based on a mountain of assumptions.

    I'm willing to concede that I could be wrong. I'm willing to try anything. From here on out, I will attempt to stand as much as possible on my subway rides. If I can keep that going for a few months, maybe July will be the first month since March that we don't spot a bed bug!

  23. BigDummy

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    Posted 2 months ago
    Mon Jul 1 2019 11:02:56
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    Your reasoning on subway travel is a little backwards. Sometimes its about the variables, not the repeated exposure to the constants.

  24. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 2 months ago
    Mon Jul 1 2019 11:03:59
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    Hi,

    No your not getting on my nerves.

    But you are one of those people who seems odds as patterns rather than as the series of events in sequence that they are.

    The commuter in a fixed pattern increases the risk of a "sliding door" (named after film - read plot summary) encounter but when you travel on public transport the odds and scenario are predetermined and thus the only risk reduction is to look or simply not sit down.

    The long term solution is a few weeks / months out with the launch of a friends exercise while standing on public transport routines.

    I am not a fan of "luck", the person who finds the $20 on the sidewalk is observant not lucky - be observant, engaged and as a result better off on all levels of being a human.

    My job is to identify and isolate people from contact with sources of bedbugs as well as to resolve the ones already in their homes. You can either do that one thing at a time or you can make the jump and work out which one thing it was later.

    16 years tells me one is the way forward and your welcome to come join that party.

    David

  25. murielandthebug

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    Posted 2 months ago
    Mon Jul 1 2019 14:47:59
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    BigDummy - 3 hours ago  » 
    Your reasoning on subway travel is a little backwards. Sometimes its about the variables, not the repeated exposure to the constants.

    Let me see if I can reason this from scratch and you can tell me if I'm on the right track. Everytime I sit down on the subway, I have x chance of picking up a bed bug, either one I didn't see on a seat or from another passenger if we happen to be sitting close enough to touch. If I sit 3 different times on a daily commute thanks to transfers, that's 3x chance of picking one up. Repeat for 20+ days per month, and the chances keep going up.

    This is neither here nor there, but I still maintain that if public transit truly is the source then I've got terrible luck, since we've had bed bug incursions into our apartment on 4 separate occasions in the last year, and I'm but one of the 6 million NYC subway riders every day.

  26. murielandthebug

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    Posted 2 months ago
    Mon Jul 1 2019 14:59:46
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    bed-bugscouk - 3 hours ago  » 
    The long term solution is a few weeks / months out with the launch of a friends exercise while standing on public transport routines.

    If I were still a younger man living closer to my office, now would have been a great time to get back into biking to work.

    bed-bugscouk - 3 hours ago  » 
    I am not a fan of "luck", the person who finds the $20 on the sidewalk is observant not lucky - be observant, engaged and as a result better off on all levels of being a human.

    As a paranoid, anxious person, I thought I generally was pretty observant about where I sit. But if my eyes can't be trusted, I'll have to stick to standing. Or maybe just appear to be an anti-social germaphobe, getting up anytime someone sits next to me.


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