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NuVan VS "Rag in a Bag" (Cirkil), where to buy, and other treatment questions

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  1. Ijustwanttosleep

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Mon Jun 22 2015 21:39:29
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    Hi!

    Trying to get all my answers maybe in one so I'm not posting multiple threads, but there's a lot of info so bear with me.

    Current landlord only wants to spray "once every month or two" with Trasport Mikron. No dust, no steam, nothing but Mikron. I know Mikron is good but I disagree with his "spray and pray" method and unfortunately, believe it or not, he's on my citys "Bed Bug Action Counsel" so I don't have any city officials or grounds to argue with what he deems appropriate to do in my situation.

    I believe our infestation is small, though, thankfully. We have been sleeping on the couch because our landlord believes our infestation is confined, so far, to the bedroom, SO, we isolated the bed, re-installed a box spring and mattress encasement because we think the issue arose from our old one tearing during the move here, have climb ups, and are washing/drying all bed linens on high heat every other day, and then the only reason for the couch thing is because so far our couch is NOT infested (though has been treated any way) and our landlord put a Night Watch system in our bedroom to monitor and catch bugs, so told us not to sleep there for a week. I hate sleeping on the couch risking infesting it but he told us that with Night watch they won't want to travel, HOPEFULLY, and we obviously can't sleep in the room with Night watch running.

    In 4 days, the monitor/trap has caught ONE bug. This was on night 4. We just got a kairomone lure but when it caught the first bug we were just using it with co2 and the heat part not the kairomone cause my landlord didn't have any, but today we got some, so we'll run with the addition of the lure now, too.

    The bed was treated with a light spraying of Temprid on the frame, and around the box spring sides (outside of the encasement) and dusted very lightly outside frame and such with Alpine dust. A week later my landlord sprayed it with Mikron (didn't like mixing them but he insisted). We have DE in every crack and crevice of the room which was applied after spray of Mikron dried and after I steamed the whole place. ZERO clutter any where, particularly bedroom.

    I react quickly, and BADLY to bites. Like, half dollar sized, very raised, very dark red WELTS that look like I was shot with a paintball gun on bare skin. I have not been bitten at all since moving to couch and using Night Watch, but prior to, I was being bitten every 2-3 nights at anywhere from 1 to 3 bites was the max, usually only 1-2 bites.

    I've only lived here 3 weeks and been bitten 5 times in 3 weeks, maybe 6.

    We saw 5 bed bugs, 3 dead on the box spring and climb up inner well, two alive (one alive on the floor and one in the night watch still on its back kicking in the morning). No nymphs, just adults....but...small adults? I read they are approx 1/4 inch and these are smaller, but not nymphs. I've seen nymphs and their weird yellowish clear look, these are flat, unfed, and dark brownish red. Just definitely not 1/4 inch long. Maybe like 1/5 or 1/6th long.

    Any way, with this info...can any one guess how many we might have? I know that's tough but I'd love to know if this is indeed very light. Is only ONE bug in the trap a good sign we don't have a huge infestation? And seeing no nymphs any where at all? #1 how bad is it maybe?

    ALSO, questions for treatment.

    #1 Since landlord won't re treat for at least a month, ugh, he gave me permission to self treat as long as I don't cause damage or use chemicals that could somehow travel through out the building (like bombs, which I wouldn't use any way). So I'm going to re spray with Temprid around the apartment perimeter since that has worked wonders for me in the past. Question 1 How often can I reapply Temprid (can says every 7-10 days) but knowing there is Mikron still lingering around? Mikron was last done 3 weeks ago, is it safe to apply Temprid right over it in the cracks and crevices 3 weeks later, or is that bad? I did it at week one by landlords idea but now I'm worried to keep that up. I know SOME people recommend alternating chemicals (like, something like Mikron one week, Temprid 2 weeks later, Bedlam, maybe Mikron again, etc) but somehow that seems dangerous to me. It makes sense, to avoid possible resistance in time, but it still seems dangerous. But I can't get my hands on Mikron here so Temprid is all I can get, or Bedlam.

    #2 Can I treat the sides of my mattress and box spring (NOT the top where I lay down, I know that!) with Temprid one week, then switch to Bedlam 1-2 weeks later? Domyownpestcontrol site says you can but I just want to be sure. Bed was sprayed with Mikron 3 weeks ago also.

    #3 ^differences between bedlam and bedlam plus? Are they both cat safe once dry? And does the aerosol foam? I'd like a fan type spray that's easier to apply, not a foam? Or does foam do well on box spring sides and such?

    #4 Landlord says I should steam myself. He says it won't hurt. I don't think that's safe or smart? Couldn't I vaporize these chemicals and create a dangerous environment?? And can steam penetrate through the box spring encasement or would that compromise it and weaken it or break it even? I don't want to remove the encasement to steam. Right now we are double encased as the first one tore and my landlord told me NOT to remove it, but to encase right over it.

    #5 Finally, we wanted to treat our stuff in the closets with NuVan (not while in the closets lol, we'd take them to the garage in bins probably) but then I got really nervous to use it because DDVP sounds scary. I read about CIRKIL, and "Rag in a Bag" and I want to try that! I don't even mind my place smelling like crazy Neem for a year, what ever. But I can't seem to find it online besides in bulk ($300 for a case of 12) OR through online retailers that seem...suspicious? Does any one know where I can get some in the US, from a respected online retailer? I just need ONE 32 oz bottle. I just want it from a legit source too. To try the rag in a bag thing. I inspected all my stuff and cleaned it all and there are so signs of them in my things but you can never be too careful so I want to treat them any way.
    Also, is CIRKIL safe for cats? I'd not be using the spray in the house, just the rag in a bag thing, but the lingering smell and vapors of neem on stuff, I wonder if that's pet friendly.

    Wow this is long. Sorry. But I think these are all my questions lol.

    Thanks for reading!

  2. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Mon Jun 22 2015 22:34:39
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    The "Rag in a Bag" protocol was designed for Cirkil, a product marketed to pest management companies. The same company (Teramera) also makes a consumer version called Proof.

    However, according to the Teramera website, they're not the same-- Proof is much less concentrated than Cirkil.

    They have information on where to buy Proof here, and it is described as a spray treatment (i.e. I don't think it's labeled for or would work for Rag in a Bag):
    http://bugproof.com/buy-proof-bed-bug-spray

    The Rag in a Bag protocol instructions describe using Cirkil (not Proof), here:
    http://cirkil.com/rag

    (Note to others: according to the Cirkil site, this method is not currently allowed in Oregon.)

    There's an option to buy Cirkil (the pro product) via the Teramera website:
    http://cirkil.com/order
    ... but only in the massive quantities you describe.

    It might be possible to find a pro who uses the protocol and can provide you with a smaller quantity for this purpose (or who would implement it for you, as the case may be).

    I gather from the "Rag in a bag" info Cirkil provides via the link above that they don't intend consumers to try this on their own. For whatever reason. (Surely, they'd sell single bottles of it if they did.) There may be a concern about consumers misusing the pro product, I don't know.

    Or you can try a different method, like Nuvan Prostrips or HotShot No Pest Strips, which are both available in the US (see this section of the Useful Tools page for more on those, including sources).

    Whatever you use, make sure you follow label instructions closely.

    Note, heat works very well for many items and you have some good options there.

    I am not an expert and can't give treatment advice. I do think you should get the best advice on what's safe for cats, etc. People here do steam for themselves all the time, but steaming an area with a residual chemical in place is another matter.

    As a consumer, I would be concerned about steaming areas which had been chemically treated-- not only because the chemicals may be airborne, but also because the treatment would be removed.

    Forum participant P Bello is one of the only pros here who will give advice on pesticides, and he also has experience with Nuvan, so he may be a helpful resource on that if you want to know more.

    I started and run the site but am "not an expert."
  3. Richard56

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Mon Jun 22 2015 22:38:23
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    [link to Cirkil product on Amazon deleted-- see below]

  4. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Mon Jun 22 2015 22:48:49
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    Thanks, Richard.

    I have added this product to our Amazon store.

    (*Disclosure: if you shop at Amazon via this link or the Amazon banner in the sidebar, it helps support the running of this site at no additional cost to you. More info. in our disclosure policy.)

  5. Richard56

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Mon Jun 22 2015 23:19:47
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    For fecal testing, here are two presumptive blood test kits you might also want to consider adding to your Amazon Store as well as a mention in your detection section.

    I'm familiar with the kit from the first company but the second link appears to be using the same reagents at a better price. The second company states enough reagent for 30 tests, not sure how many tests from the first company

    Phenolphthalein Presumptive Blood Test Kit

    Innovating Science Presumptive Blood Test

    Richard

  6. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Thu Jun 25 2015 0:31:11
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    Hi Richard,

    Links to these two products have been added to our Amazon store page "Do I have Bed Bugs? (Detection Tools)".

    Still working on the FAQ on testing fecal stains, as we previously had one on Bed Bug Blue and there need to be some major updates.

    (note to site users, shopping via our Amazon store or the links/banners in the Useful Tools page helps support the running of this site at no additional cost to you-- see more in our Disclosure Policy).

  7. P Bello

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Thu Jun 25 2015 8:23:00
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    Dear ijustwannasleep,

    Wow, that's a lot of questions there.

    Of course, we understand your position and resulting frustrations and, there are many other questions which come to mind based upon yours and the information posted above.

    I'm happy to provide answers and viable options but, since it's a busy day, will have to try to find time to do so later on.

    pjb


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