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Non-BB ID needed,pleas help! [a: body or head louse]

(18 posts)
  1. stellaradnama

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Mon Feb 9 2015 15:24:38
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    Hi All - need some help identifying this bug that I found on my arm in the shower (right after I had gotten in). Some info, not sure if related or not:

    -I *thought* I had lice a couple weeks ago and treated myself with a permethrin kit. Itchiness subsided as expected, seemed to be in the clear as of several days ago.

    -Both my daughter and I have gotten a dozen or so "bites" over the last week and a half. Intensely itchy, only get worse if you scratch instead of a relief. They've really acted more like reactions than bites.

    I've dealt with carpet beetles before and the skin irritations are similar but I haven't seen any and this doesn't look like one (or a bedbug) to me. So, any help is much appreciated! Thank you!

  2. robinsmom

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Mon Feb 9 2015 15:37:04
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    Hi, sorry but photo did not post?

    I'm not an expert just a dumb struggling bed bugger like every body else.
  3. stellaradnama

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Mon Feb 9 2015 15:55:47
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    let's try again!
    [img][/img]

  4. AbsolutelyFreaking

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Mon Feb 9 2015 16:09:29
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    Yes, appears to be a louse.

  5. AbsolutelyFreaking

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Mon Feb 9 2015 16:12:08
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    In my personal opinion, you need to be careful with the permethrin kits. I have read that lice have become quite resistant to them/it. You need to be thorough with treatment (and lice treatments are not a one time deal usually . . . you have to account for any nits hatching). Also, you need to vacuum, change the bedding, etc.

  6. stellaradnama

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Mon Feb 9 2015 16:12:56
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    Aaaaaack. Is there a lice forum as helpful as you guys are with bed bugs.....

  7. stellaradnama

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Mon Feb 9 2015 16:14:42
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    @AbsoltelyFreaking
    Yes, I had read that about permethrin too but that was all I could find at the time. I definitely did all the facets of treatment - combing, removing nits, etc. for the whole two weeks. The thing I can't figure out though is these skin irritations. Everything I've read about lice says they don't want to bite outside your scalp. is that not true, or am I dealing with something else as well?

  8. loubugs

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Mon Feb 9 2015 16:23:59
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    Yes, it's a louse.

    -I *thought* I had lice a couple weeks ago and treated myself with a permethrin kit. Itchiness subsided as expected, seemed to be in the clear as of several days ago.

    Both you and your daughter treated?

    Professional entomologist/arachnologist. I consult on all matters dealing with insects and arachnids, including those of natural history and biology to pest management and forensic entomology investigations.
  9. stellaradnama

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Mon Feb 9 2015 16:26:36
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    Both you and your daughter treated?

    So far this whole time she has not had any signs of them and I've checked frequently, so she hasn't been treated with anything.

  10. AbsolutelyFreaking

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Mon Feb 9 2015 16:31:10
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    Dear stellaradnama,

    Lou likes this website:

    loubugs -  » 
    Please check out headlice.org - I'm also on their scientific advisory board.

    And here’s one prior discussion, but there have been many if you want to search here also:

    http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/please-identify-this-as-they-are-crawling-on-my-bed-and-my-skin-at-all-times

    I had to deal with head lice about three years ago with a child I am taking care of. I had never had to deal with them before and thought I was going to have a nervous breakdown . . . and then I had a bed bug scare . . . and decided lice aren't so bad compared to bed bugs!

    Anyway . . . lice are not that difficult to eradicate, you do have to be thorough and do the right things. Luckily I had a “professional” “lice remover” in my area, and she was a Godsend treating and helping me put my mind at ease and taking care of the problem.

    Also, I have seen Lou recommend the Lice Meister comb that the head lice web site promotes . . . and it’s a good comb . . .

    But the professional I hired used the terminator lice comb which is a really, really good comb (and I still use it about once a week on the child just as a preventative measure (with conditioner).

    http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=terminator+lice+comb&FORM=HDRSC2

  11. stellaradnama

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Mon Feb 9 2015 16:33:03
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    Thanks SO MUCH for that info! We actually have a professional place in my city as well that I'm going to call after work. Sadly I don't think my husband did a very good job Really sadly I'm about to go out of town for three days....

  12. AbsolutelyFreaking

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Mon Feb 9 2015 16:40:20
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    stellaradnama -  » 
    The thing I can't figure out though is these skin irritations. Everything I've read about lice says they don't want to bite outside your scalp. is that not true, or am I dealing with something else as well?

    Where are your skin irritations?

    stellaradnama -  » 
    We actually have a professional place in my city as well that I'm going to call after work.

    Yay! (I just think it's so much easier when you have help!)

    stellaradnama -  » 
    Sadly I don't think my husband did a very good job

    Again, you have to be thorough with lice. Vacuuming (carpeted areas, sofas (“they” even advise to vacuum the bed)); change bedding; treating any bows, headband, brushes, combs, etc.

  13. stellaradnama

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Mon Feb 9 2015 16:42:13
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    Skin irritations are in different spots, including down to legs and on the trunk, chest, neck as well

  14. AbsolutelyFreaking

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Mon Feb 9 2015 16:51:36
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    stellaradnama -  » 
    Skin irritations are in different spots, including down to legs and on the trunk, chest, neck as well

    Hmmmmm . . . interesting, very interesting.

    I definitely think we're going to need Lou's input on this one!!!!

    Here's my thoughts on the matter (but we need Lou)!

    One, it's possible that the skin irritations on different parts of your body have nothing to do with the lice issue.

    or Two, I **think** I remember Lou posting on here that head lice and body lice are very similar. But I'm not sure I am remembering correctly, and that's why we need Lou!

    When you treated for lice before, did you definitely find them in your and your daughter hair and on scalp?

    Paging Lou Sorkin Please!

  15. stellaradnama

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Mon Feb 9 2015 16:58:27
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    I am so freaked out right now that it could be body lice too, how in the world did we get this stuff.

    I definitely found live adult lice on myself on two occasions. I have not seen live lice or nits on my daughter.

    I've also checked in clothing and bedding every day lately because of these bites and have found nothing.

  16. loubugs

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Mon Feb 9 2015 17:45:43
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    stellaradnama - »
    Skin irritations are in different spots, including down to legs and on the trunk, chest, neck as well

    It's very possible that the lesions in so many places are not actually all where biting is occurring. You might be experiencing bite-like reactions even though there's no feeding going on there.

    I am so freaked out right now that it could be body lice too, how in the world did we get this stuff.
    I definitely found live adult lice on myself on two occasions. I have not seen live lice or nits on my daughter.
    I've also checked in clothing and bedding every day lately because of these bites and have found nothing.

    Do you know if there's any louse problems in school? Daughter's grade? Her friends? On you, but on your scalp, not on your clothes?
    There's some disagreement whether body and head lice are actually different species or subspecies.

  17. AbsolutelyFreaking

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Mon Feb 9 2015 18:34:36
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    stellaradnama -  » 
    I am so freaked out right now that it could be body lice too, how in the world did we get this stuff.
    I definitely found live adult lice on myself on two occasions. I have not seen live lice or nits on my daughter.

    Hey there, I did not mean to freak you out by mentioning body lice. I was merely remembering Lou posting that body and head lice are similar and that they might actually be one species. I was hoping that Lou would comment and he did, bringing up very good questions.

    And . . . here are some other posts where he discusses head lice v. body lice:

    loubugs -  » 
    It's difficult to say if human head or body louse since both might very well be subspecies of one species, so it doesn't matter. Typically body lice will stay in layers of clothing near body and get on to feed, but then off and back to clothing when finished; head lice stay on hairs, most often on head. Eggs laid in clothing by body lice and on base of hair shafts by head lice. These insects feed much more often than do bed bugs. And, yes, their life styles and association with humans are very different from that of the common bed bug!!

    .

    loubugs -  » 

    What you have there is a body louse (lice) (aka Pediculus humanus humanus, aka Pediculus humanus corporis).

    Just a technical point, Pediculus humanus corporis is an invalid name. Two recognized names for the 2 subspecies is Pediculus humanus humanus and Pediculus humanus capitus. And it's even possible that these are one species; more molecular research in the future. Looks like you uploaded a picture of a male.
    BTW, a most recent classification now lists the Order Psocodea as one that contains the booklice, barklice and true parasitic lice, where parasitic lice do not fall into one particular subgroup any longer that was previously named the Phthiraptera and the booklice and barklice were in the Psocoptera.
    . . .
    It's difficult to say if your louse is a head louse or body louse or it may not really matter because there is recent evidence that it's really just one species anyway. Head louse specimens could have been transferred from one's cap or hat or even a jacket. . . . Body lice typically stay on clothing and crawl onto you to feed and then go back to the layers of clothing. Eggs are typically deposited on seams of the clothing rather than on the hair on your head.

    .

    loubugs - 1 year ago  » 
    You can rule out pubic louse and bed bug. It's either a head or body louse; there's discussion as to whether or not this constitutes one or 2 species, anyway.
    I posted these images some time ago, but I think it's appropriate to point these out for your questions on this forum right now:
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/lou_bugs_pix/5110457251/in/photostream/
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/lou_bugs_pix/5113516460/

    .

    loubugs -  » 
    Do you have head lice or body lice? You would see lice on the hair, nits (eggs) on the hair, too. Typically the body lice would be living in clothing and they normally crawl off the clothing to feed and then back. They feed much more often than do bed bugs. Can't tell which lice from the photos -- it's not that easy. Also there is some discussion whether or not there are 2 species or 2 subspecies of one species when it comes to Pediculus. See images noted below.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/lou_bugs_pix/5110457251/in/photostream/
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/lou_bugs_pix/5113516460/in/photostream/

    Some of the comments are from these threads if you want to read them in context:

    http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/are-these-bed-bugs-lice-photos

    http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/bed-bug-or-body-lice-pic-included

    I believe the gist of what Lou is/was saying is that body lice live in clothing and if they are head lice, you will find the bugs and nits in your hair and on your scalp. You mentioned you found lice on yourself twice. Where did you find them? Did you have someone check your hair and scalp? When you found them on your daughter, did you find them in her hair? It sounds like in all likelihood you are dealing with head lice, not body lice.

    And one other thing . . . body lice should not be confused with pubic lice . . . They're different.

  18. stellaradnama

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Mon Feb 9 2015 22:47:29
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    Thank you both very much for your response and help, I really appreciate it!
    Lou, you asked:
    Do you know if there's any louse problems in school? Daughter's grade? Her friends? On you, but on your scalp, not on your clothes?

    I am not aware of any problems at school, and her school is pretty on top of things (and if they're not, the parents on the school's Facebook group are, ha). I have not found anything on my clothes. In fact after my daughter took off her dress earlier I noticed some new "bites" and went to her dress specifically to look and found nothing.

    AbsolutelyFreaking - no worries, I'm kind of easily freaked out sometimes The whole body vs. head lice thing is interesting. You asked: Where did you find them? Did you have someone check your hair and scalp? When you found them on your daughter, did you find them in her hair?

    The first time around (2 weeks ago) my head had been itching and I couldn't figure out the cause. In the shower I scratched really hard at an itchy spot, looked at my finger and there it was (same as my picture). Did the same thing again right after. I also found a much smaller one on my neck the day after that we apparently missed. My husband checked my hair and scalp every night for the week after the first permethrin treatment. I actually have NOT found any evidence on my daughter, just the "bites"

    We're going to a pro lice place in the morning to get checked. I've got extra strength benadryl on the bites that is really helping at the moment. And I vacuumed the hell out of the house earlier, so here's hoping.


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