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Need help please with PCO inspections uk

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  1. Panicked

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    Posted 1 year ago
    Fri Feb 17 2017 7:05:54
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    Hi after 16 months from potentially introducing bedbugs into my home I'm still getting skin reactions and still not found a bug!! Can this happen?? These appear on stomach, under arms, on hands and some itch and some don't. I have David Cains passive monitor on one sofa and the bed in use and they remain free from proof.

    I'm at a complete loss as to what to do to work this all out now. So I'm getting in a pest control company again. The first company I call will do a survey but will cost me £45+vat. Don't really want to pay for anything as I probably don't have them really, and pretty much said that to him. Also said that after 16 months and just putting down DE alone my house would be crawling in them surely. He said no not necessarily, could be the odd one or 2 and a light infestation. Does this sound right?? He would lay traps down!! We all know how ineffective they are! Had them 16 months ago and paid £300 to have the pleasure and they found nothing. Don't want to pay for someone who doesn't know their stuff. They treat by using DE and dry steam by the way, so chemical free.

    Could anyone help with any suggestions as to what this could be after 16 months before I start coughing up money again. Can anyone suggest a good pest control company in Cornwall.

  2. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 1 year ago
    Fri Feb 17 2017 8:44:12
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    Hi,

    At this stage its quite clear from the lack of signs that its not bed bugs. There is clearly something causing an issue but that needs to be pinned down and investigated.

    When I am engaged to do such inspections it can actually take longer than treatment protocols because you are in essence forensically inspecting the key areas of the home looking for signs and excluding a long list of possibilities as you go.

    So £45+VAT (20% for those in the US) is not an unrealistic sum of money if the person is spending an hour or so searching and giving professional advice. You would certainly be looking at a much more significant bill for this kind of service in the US and its something we charge £55+VAT for in London for up to 6 rooms inspected.

    I can thinking of two people who may be able to help. There was a consulting entomologist in Bristol who might be still working or there Richard Naylor at the Bed Bug Foundation who is mid Wales. With travel (which adds at least half to the bill) you would be looking in the region of £600+VAT for one of my team to come down and while that may seem a lot of money it actually costs us compared to the work we can complete inside London in the same time frame.

    One final option although I am not even sure if that is feasible but this is a council employee I used to work with in London who I think now runs the Environment department of one of the local councils, a Mr Ennis. He owes me a few favors which I am unlikely to be able to call in this lifetime so if you can find him he may be able to help you although it would not be within his normal job remit.

    As a last ditch you may want to try the local academics to see if there are any entomologists who would be willing to come and have a look.

    Failing all of that I can only suggest crowd source funding or possibly asking your GP to consider this as a personalized healthcare plan whereby they may be able to fund it on the groups it actually costs the health service less to do things correctly.

    Hope that helps, I just wish you were closer so I could pop in and have a look but 5 hours driving is more than a little bit out of my way.

    Take care.

    David Cain
    Bed Bugs Limited

    If you have found this information helpful please consider leaving feedback on social media via google+ or FaceBook or by like/loving the images.

    In accordance with the AUP and FTC (legal requirements) I openly disclose my vested interest in Passive Monitors as the inventor and patent holder. Since 2009 they have become an integral part in how we resolve bed bug infestations. I also have a professional relationship with PackTite in that they distribute my product under their own branding. I do not however receive any financial remuneration for any comments I make about products.
  3. Panicked

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    Posted 1 year ago
    Fri Feb 17 2017 8:59:37
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    Thanks David! I wish you was closer too lol. I'm really not moaning at the cost of inspection, just the fact that when do I stop wasting my money on this. I haven't found any carpet beetles (are they really obvious?) in my search for bedbugs and I have only found the odd mite, booklice and couple of dead fleas. So leaves me questioning what is doing it. Yes some spots look like hives pale pink bumps and could be anything then some are tiny holes 4 in a row very close to each other. Felt something bite in bra the other day and looked saw a dog hair and thought that must have been what poked me. But then later found an obvious bite and blood in the fabric!! Aaaarrgh!

    As for faecal marks, shall I just go ahead testing the spots I find, as I found some on a doorframe hall side not bedroom side rather than keep posting the pics on here? After all that's what I bought it for. Then again I could turn blue if they were from flies couldn't they sending me on a while goose chase. Is it best to post or test? Thanks again for your comments.

  4. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 1 year ago
    Fri Feb 17 2017 9:18:47
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    Hi,

    It might actually be the dog hair. The issue of CB's is not species specific, it falls into a larger group of issues which can be called cable mites, paper mites and "no see ums". It is the fibers / hairs that cause the hole in the skin and the raised area is purely as a result of that hole in the skin, in same way that a scratch might produce a line shaped welt.

    The solution is to filter / wash those particles out of the air and to re-mediate the reason why they are being attracted towards you (which is where the static comes in).

    As for testing suspect marks I would hope that you are at the stage of comparing them visually with examples and only needing to test the ones that are close in appearance. You know its not a typical place for them but it can sometimes be indicative of a bat bug or martin bug issue although both of these are rare in the UK. I would not be so worried about flies feeding of blood and causing false positives while it is a technical possibility I have not encountered it. If you know the companies past we used to be located next door to a commercial butchers close to New Covent Garden market and in fact the fly poo test pics in the Bed Bug Blue report where taken in my office at that location.

    Hope that helps.

    David

  5. Panicked

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    Posted 1 year ago
    Fri Feb 17 2017 10:23:34
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    Hi David and yes I believed the spots on the doorframe weren't a usual place to find them as they were out in the open, although I thought not impossible, also the colour didn't quite seem dark enough. The only thing that made me think possibly not flies were they didn't have a drop shape.

    We moved into this house and it's old around beginning of sept 15 and it's in oct that I felt I started to get the issues (when I got wardrobe). Could be that I was reacting as soon as I got there and only when I started to suspect bedbugs that I started noticing issues with skin. It's been going on so long now that I forget?

    I do wonder it it could be carpet as our previous home had floorboards. Perhaps I'm allergic to carpet lol. Although I can't see why that would cause red pinprick marks on my hands? I generally walk around house with cotton socks on (hate slippers and too cold without socks).

    I know we might have mice or rats in roof space, which is also why we need a PCO and we have watched birds go under the facia boards nesting. So I wondered I'd any of these things can cause issues from mites. Would I see them? Just because we have birds or rats does it always mean they are going to cause issues with mites or is it rare. Thanks

  6. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 1 year ago
    Fri Feb 17 2017 10:52:12
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    Hi,

    Shape would be a factor of the viscosity of the material and the local environmental conditions. Colour and texture would be more accurate things to focus on.

    For the wardrobe to be the issue / catalyst there would be signs on it of the issue.

    Its not the "carpet" you could be allergic to as I would expect you would have identified that allergy a long time before. It is more the fact that carpets provide the source of fibers and can also promote the static imbalance, but I am sure we have been through that before. Just as people are not allergic to paper when paper mite issues arise.

    Rats, mice, birds do not all carry mites and I would say the most common of all of them is bird mites and if you go through the bird mites section of my site you can see they are easily confirmed by anyone with good eye sight and an understanding of where to look.

    Hope that is clearer.

    David

  7. Panicked

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    Posted 1 year ago
    Fri Feb 17 2017 16:16:19
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    Thanks David I'll mention to whoever comes about bird mites they will hopefully know how and where to check. Running out of possibilities now! Will add some pics for anyone who's interested in seeing them of some skin reactions. To me they look just like other confirmed bed bug bites. As for the wardrobe, that was removed within the week and I didn't have the knowledge then of what to look for. Could kick myself now!

    One thing ... I'm really really concerned with is that a pest controller may have been treating bedbugs and will bring one to my house hitch hiking on him or from having them in their cars. Really concerns me!

  8. Panicked

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    Posted 1 year ago
    Fri Feb 17 2017 17:46:38
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    REACTIONS

    BRA BITE
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    BLOOD IN BRA

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    HAND AND FINGER AFTER CHECKING BEHIND BED ON FLOOR

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    \f0\fs40 \cf2 \cb3 \expnd0\expndtw0\kerning0
    \outl0\strokewidth0 \strokec2 Untitled by Lee Searle, on Flickr\
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    STOMACH AND FOREARM

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    BITES IN ROW ON STOMACH

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  9. Panicked

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    Posted 1 year ago
    Fri Feb 17 2017 18:44:11
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    As you can see from the pic David the mark left in bra and the blood seems a bit extreme to have been caused by a dog hair?!

  10. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 1 year ago
    Fri Feb 17 2017 18:55:23
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    Does it?

    How did you derive that conclusion?

    David

  11. Panicked

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    Posted 1 year ago
    Fri Feb 17 2017 19:31:10
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    Sorry David I hope you don't think I was being funny really appreciate your opinions. Thought you may have thought I meant a tiny little pinhole that's why I shared the pic. Just not something I have experienced before. Thanks for letting me know it's a possibility.

  12. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 1 year ago
    Fri Feb 17 2017 19:54:24
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    I was genuinely interested in your logic.

    David

  13. Poiqm

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    Posted 1 year ago
    Fri Feb 17 2017 23:42:06
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    Bites, dog, dead fleas... could it be fleas biting you? Are your pets treated with flea prevention?

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  14. Panicked

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    Posted 1 year ago
    Sun Feb 19 2017 15:56:08
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    Poiqm - 1 day ago  » 
    Bites, dog, dead fleas... could it be fleas biting you? Are your pets treated with flea prevention?

    Hi sorry for delay in replying. I obviously thought about fleas, but my pets are religiously treated every month. I'm aware that the treatment can lose its power and benefits from a rotation of products, but surely after 16 months the house would be hopping. Also, u feel fleas bite and they are itchy. And leave more lasting bites? Mine don't Aways itch and when they do its not for long at all, just enough to to know something is going on. If anyone has any different ideas, I'd like to hear please. Perhaps someone has a different experience with regards to fleas?! Thanks

  15. Panicked

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    Posted 1 year ago
    Sun Feb 19 2017 16:00:48
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    bed-bugscouk - 1 day ago  » 
    I was genuinely interested in your logic.
    David

    Well David, I don't think a dog hair would make a hole that big and bleed as much. Perhaps leave a tiny spot if it did. I don't get a hole that big from injections lol. Perhaps if the hair embedded into the fabric more and gave it more leverage then perhaps. But this was just lose. If I said there wasn't a hair there and I found what I did, what would u think. Having felt something to make me look in the first place. Any thoughts? I've also woke with a slight itch on wrist to find a smal bump and that didn't last long. Thanks again

  16. Poiqm

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    Posted 1 year ago
    Sun Feb 19 2017 16:45:56
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    Perhaps someone has a different experience with regards to fleas?! Thanks

    Sometimes flea prevention just doesn't work and switching brands helps. For example, I have a friend who lives in the south and Frontline doesn't work on her pets, but Frontline works great for my dogs but not the cats, they were better on Advantage. Grocery store bought brands usually aren't effective. It's best to get brands sold by veterinarians.

    Now, for my flea bite experience story... when I was in college I rented a room in a house which turned out to be infested with fleas. I don't recall if I felt the bites because I was working and going to school so used the place mainly to crash and sleep at night. I would wake up in the morning covered in bites. They did itch a lot but I couldn't say how long each bite itched because I had so many bites itching at different rates.

    Bed bugs... you might consider using some interceptor traps on the bed/couch to see if anything appears.

  17. Panicked

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    Posted 1 year ago
    Sun Feb 19 2017 17:51:06
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    Poiqm - 43 minutes ago  » 

    Perhaps someone has a different experience with regards to fleas?! Thanks

    Sometimes flea prevention just doesn't work and switching brands helps. For example, I have a friend who lives in the south and Frontline doesn't work on her pets, but Frontline works great for my dogs but not the cats, they were better on Advantage. Grocery store bought brands usually aren't effective. It's best to get brands sold by veterinarians.
    Now, for my flea bite experience story... when I was in college I rented a room in a house which turned out to be infested with fleas. I don't recall if I felt the bites because I was working and going to school so used the place mainly to crash and sleep at night. I would wake up in the morning covered in bites. They did itch a lot but I couldn't say how long each bite itched because I had so many bites itching at different rates.
    Bed bugs... you might consider using some interceptor traps on the bed/couch to see if anything appears.

    Hi yes agree with that. We only every use flea treatment from vets! Frontline four us failed once as despite monthly applications ended up with some
    Fleas. Changed brands and they were gone almost over night! Finding the odd dead one is good?! Means that it's working. Bite cat or dog and die!

    If it wasn't for David Cain insisting that clear monitors means no bed bugs, id be more certain that this is what is going on. I just can't see it being anything else! However, David is the expert here and trust what he says. However, I need to get to the bottom of this so I have no choice now to call in a PCO to have a look for me to see if they an figure anything out.

    I had climbups installed pretty much from the start, didn't catch anything as far as I'm aware. These were removed to place the passive monitor into the bed. I worry that the climbups caused them to spread, if I have them that is. But David explained that if they were on the opposite side of the room they would relocate to his monitor.
    Also, I have read a few times that people have found no evidence, even the PEst control haven't found anything and yet it turns out that there are bedbugs as they have eventually found one!

    My concern with a PCO that I am waiting to hear back from is that they will come here and not find anything and say that he will treat anyway! Now some might say that without a sample bedbug this is not slowed. However, this company use steam and DE. No chemicals!! But don't know how this works if u can't see any bugs to steam. I suppose it's no different treating a confirmed infestation where they are hiding out of sight.

    Also worried sick that having pest control people here might introduce them to my home if they hitch a ride on them from another house that's infested!! Could be in their car?! Occupational hazard?? Sorry went on a bit lol

  18. Panicked

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    Posted 1 year ago
    Sun Feb 19 2017 17:53:17
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    Sorry for the typos! Doing this on mobile!

  19. FayeState

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    Sun Feb 19 2017 17:57:02
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    Good luck in finding out what is causing the problem. I can understand your PCO anxiety about introducing bed bugs.

  20. buggygonn1

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    My PCO threw his leather jacket on my kitchen floor before he even knew if there were bedbugs here..geez I think I wold be more careful

  21. FayeState

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    buggygonn1 - 49 minutes ago  » 
    My PCO threw his leather jacket on my kitchen floor before he even knew if there were bedbugs here..geez I think I wold be more careful

    That makes no sense. When I've talked to PCO's they told me they don't sit down etc. in order to avoid getting bed bugs.

  22. Panicked

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    buggygonn1 - 9 hours ago  » 
    My PCO threw his leather jacket on my kitchen floor before he even knew if there were bedbugs here..geez I think I wold be more careful

    That's worrying!! did he find any?

  23. Panicked

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    Mon Feb 20 2017 11:22:07
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    Well have Pest Control coming this week to see if they can help. Explained my concerns about cross contamination and was told they are very careful and they would have them in their own homes if they wernt. Also explained the amount of time I suspected bedbugs and said id be crawling in them and was told not necessarily. Which is opposite to what I keep getting told here! Who's right? Started me worrying again lol.

    David, do u agree? I have your monitors still and they show no signs so not doubting you, he's just hopefully looking into other issues and will look at bedbugs too. Will explain ur monitors when they come. Thanks

  24. bed-bugscouk

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    buggygonn1 - 11 hours ago  » 
    My PCO threw his leather jacket on my kitchen floor before he even knew if there were bedbugs here..geez I think I wold be more careful

    While it is not good etiquette its actually low risk for someone to pick up bed bugs that way because on the only occasions I have encountered significant levels of bed bug activity, and thus a risk of picking them up, the signs were immediately obvious upon entering the home. The image below shows the hallway wall of one such property, it could have been any small rectangle of the walls because the "wood chip" wall paper provided lots of dispersed refugia when the obvious ones had already been occupied:

    Slide17 by David Cain, on Flickr

    However, the behavior would be scolded by me for being disrespectful to someone in their home. Assuming the home was presented as respect worthy (yes we do at times enter homes where little to no respect for our personal well being or safety are being shown (syringes and needles scattered across the floor etc) and at such times being a little more "drill sergeant" often resolves the situation fastest) and the process begin to restore or earning respect.

    I have a friend who is a police officer who said "there is no way I could do your job" on the grounds that I don't have a database to warn me where the bad people live. Its also true that the lady living in a house where the ground floor is open to the elements and has 30+ cats roaming the place is not likely to let you know about that before you turn up at the home.

    In our company policies such cases become assess and collect data so I can go in and work out the action plan. Increasingly with good documentation and clear images I can even do that remotely. This means the risk of transmission out is low and when we go in to fix it its the "only job of the day" and the last box out of the van is the sealed set of clothes I am changing into when I leave.

    With a normal case my jacket can be placed on either of my work bags until I know the home is safe to place it elsewhere. This way you react to risks rather than reinforce obsessive behavioral patterns.

    David

  25. Panicked

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    Hi David. Did you miss my other comments? Re the amount of bedbugs Not necesarily being huge after that amount of time? When I spoke to the guy he is thinking more along the line of fleas as I have found a couple of dead ones, however, when I described my bites and where he also said they sounded like bed bugs ??

    In the picture you posted above, how many months did it take for an infestation to get to that level? Also, does it depend how many people are living in the house. Would just 2 people
    Slow it down?

    Thank you

  26. bed-bugscouk

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    Mon Feb 20 2017 14:02:25
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    Hi,

    You have asked me for advice previously in this thread.

    I have stated it is not bed bugs and that you need to engage with someone who can conduct a thorough inspection or investigation as to the likely cause of things.

    I am also fairly certain we have been through this on the phone and possibly more than once.

    If you can explain what will make you accept that more if I repeat it I will consider integrating that into my response. Otherwise I can only really suggest you look at what I have already said.

    David

  27. Panicked

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    Posted 1 year ago
    Mon Feb 20 2017 14:57:46
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    We have spoke once on the phone and yes you probably have repeated yourself. Sorry.

  28. bed-bugscouk

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    I think its a little more certain than probable.

    Hopefully shining a light on that fact will help you to be more mindful of the cycle that you get drawn into.

    David

  29. buggygonn1

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    No so far neither the PCO or myself has identified a bug. Going to the Dermatologist next Monday to see if he can find a cause for the bite like marks and the itching. My PCO also said after 3 Months I would see them. I hope he is right because when I move in May I want to be certain they don't go with me.

  30. Panicked

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    Mon Feb 20 2017 16:24:33
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    buggygonn1 - 40 minutes ago  » 
    No so far neither the PCO or myself has identified a bug. Going to the Dermatologist next Monday to see if he can find a cause for the bite like marks and the itching. My PCO also said after 3 Months I would see them. I hope he is right because when I move in May I want to be certain they don't go with me.

    Well hopefully people here can help u. Dermatologist for me was no use. The PCO that originally came to mine talked shite and cost me £300! 16 months down the line I'm still no further forward as to what it is! I hope it doesn't take u too long to find out what the problem is. That is why I asked how many months David thought it took for that house to get that infested in the picture he posted. If he said 3 months and u arnt seeing such evidence then it gives u an idea. Hopefully you won't become a pain like me and ask stupid questions and get told off. I'm off to drown my sorrows. Good luck and I hope u have success ??

  31. Poiqm

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    Posted 1 year ago
    Mon Feb 20 2017 17:57:13
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    I had climbups installed pretty much from the start, didn't catch anything as far as I'm aware. These were removed to place the passive monitor into the bed.

    This does my head in. To have someone remove climb up traps so bed bugs can feed on them and multiply and MAYBE take up residence in the monitor vs the entire rest of the bed. Effectively saying "remove their protective product and use my product which requires you to be bed bug food."

    There must be some way to check for bbugs in a house without removing interceptor traps and infesting people's beds. Hmmm... Active monitors perhaps? Lures?

  32. Panicked

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    Posted 1 year ago
    Mon Feb 20 2017 19:37:03
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    Poiqm - 1 hour ago  » 

    I had climbups installed pretty much from the start, didn't catch anything as far as I'm aware. These were removed to place the passive monitor into the bed.

    This does my head in. To have someone remove climb up traps so bed bugs can feed on them and multiply and MAYBE take up residence in the monitor vs the entire rest of the bed. Effectively saying "remove their protective product and use my product which requires you to be bed bug food."
    There must be some way to check for bbugs in a house without removing interceptor traps and infesting people's beds. Hmmm... Active monitors perhaps? Lures?

    Well I was advised to do this by David Cain. I was more than happy to do it because if they were avoiding the bed because of these traps it was potentially making it harder for me to spot them. They could have spread out to other nooks and crannies that were harder to check. Much easier to lure them to the bed and have to just search that area. It sounds like the climbups are pretty much useless anyway, because if they are hungry enough they will climb the walls and drop onto the bed missing the traps anyway. Also, I was still getting skin reactions with the damn things In place. They could have already set up home inside the mattress?! However, I believe than this isn't as common.
    I don't think active monitors work in an occupied room.

  33. Poiqm

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    Posted 1 year ago
    Mon Feb 20 2017 20:06:32
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    I don't think active monitors work in an occupied room.

    Sure they do if the bbugs can't get on the bed and feed and the monitor lure is strong enough. That's how isolation works... prevent bites to the people and draw them to the traps. Besides, you aren't in the bedroom all the time, the active monitors can lure hungry bbugs all day long and all night while you're out doing other things. Or next to the couch while you're in the bedroom sleeping.

    Don't misunderstand... I'm not opposed to passive monitors, just the advice for someone to remove climb up traps and become bed bug food when it is completely unnecessary. A monitor can be great to have on the bed IF a bbug decides to avoid traps and drop down from the ceiling.

  34. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 1 year ago
    Mon Feb 20 2017 21:48:08
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    Poiqm - 3 hours ago  » 

    I had climbups installed pretty much from the start, didn't catch anything as far as I'm aware. These were removed to place the passive monitor into the bed.

    This does my head in. To have someone remove climb up traps so bed bugs can feed on them and multiply and MAYBE take up residence in the monitor vs the entire rest of the bed. Effectively saying "remove their protective product and use my product which requires you to be bed bug food."
    There must be some way to check for bbugs in a house without removing interceptor traps and infesting people's beds. Hmmm... Active monitors perhaps? Lures?

    But the point is that it's not "MAYBE" it's proven they do. Proven in the field since 2009 no less. Also proven by testimony of clients and validated by world leading academics.

    Now you posted a new clip tonight. At the end the inventor talks about a design of bed where bed bugs have only one place to live. In essence this is what I have created in amdevice rather than a more expensive bed. They also confirm their approach is 8 times better than a Climb-up, which you still appear to advocate for. Plus the method takes 6 weeks and we are down to 14 days.

    We also have a recurrence of the isolate and active trap out debate. An old - old approach which again takes many weeks and even with "subdued lighting" is unacceptably slow.

    Finally you seem to have missed the point the OP clearly does not have bed bugs because of the steps taken and the time passed. It's also clear to at least me that you have added to her anxiety tonight not worked to reduce it. That is not "cool" and certainly not helpful to her and others reading the forum.

    If you find the forum "does your head in" log off rather than creating issues for others because while everyone has an equal right to express an opinion or view some perspectives and understandings carry more weight because of the experience they come with.

    David

  35. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 1 year ago
    Mon Feb 20 2017 21:49:44
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    Dear Panicked,

    It's not bed bugs, you need to focus on the process of working out what it is rather than focusing on what it is not.

    David

  36. Poiqm

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    Posted 1 year ago
    Mon Feb 20 2017 22:17:58
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    But the point is that it's not "MAYBE" it's proven they do. Proven in the field since 2009 no less. Also proven by testimony of clients

    I have no doubt that it is proven, especially when you are making sure the beds are unprotected and infested. Recipe for success.

  37. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 1 year ago
    Mon Feb 20 2017 22:30:57
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    But they are protected, because if bed bugs are present they move into the removable device. In fact I protect the reputations of my clients because they detect bed bugs before their guests.

    It also takes less effort to maintain as there is no replacing dusty glue boards or re-talc'inv wells. While that may not seem much of an issue to some it is to the elderly or if you have 1,000 rooms and 1,800 beds to work with or maybe 2,000 cabins on a ship. In fact ships are a good example as you cant isolate those bunks.

    David


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