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My experience with Vikane moving truck fumigation Boston area

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  1. Buffy Summers

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    Posted 1 year ago
    Sun Feb 19 2017 0:48:57
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    It has been 45 days since my Vikane moving truck fumigation and I want to write share some elements of my experience including who I found most helpful to work with throughout this ordeal.

    Backstory summary: I was renting the 2nd bedroom in a 2 bedroom condo in the Boston area. My old roommate has a developmental disability, and she has a boyfriend who stayed over on weekends who also has a developmental disability. My roommate's boyfriend lives with his family in Boston Public Housing. His unit became infested with bed bugs. He brought the bed bugs to the condo. The infestation was confirmed by the LL who is a retired city housing inspector. He hired a general pest control company--a local operation based in Lynn, MA--to chemically treat.

    The chemical treatments were repeated and haphazard. The LL began to deny that the problem persisted. Three months after the original infestation was identified, live bed bugs were found again. The LL contacted the same general pest control company and resumed chemical treatments. I decided to get out ASAP since I believed (and still do) that the chemical treatments, as they were being performed, were only reducing the population and scattering the survivors. The general pest control company never looked at or treated wall sockets, baseboard heaters or wall voids. Baseboards with gaps/cracks etc. were never sealed etc.

    After one chemical treatment, I discovered that plastic bags containing my belongings were doused with pesticide. If you are in the Boston area and want to know which company this is, PM me, and I'll tell you.

    Finding Vikane Providers Closest to Boston:

    I called Douglas Products, the current owner/distributer of Vikane at:

    1-800-223-3684

    I was informed that there are no Vikane fumigators operating in the state of Massachusetts as of January 2, 2017.

    The three Vikane fumigators closest to Boston, according to the Douglas Products representative I spoke with are:

    -Western Fumigation in Pennsylvania
    - Royal Fumigation in Delaware
    - Bed Bug Fumigation Specialists in New York

    **BEWARE** Before I reached out to Douglas Products, I contacted a company that bills itself as a "consulting" resource. The company charges a fee to organize services from treatment prep to post-treatment inspection. I explicitly told the person I spoke with at this "consulting" company that I wanted Vikane fumigation in a moving truck. The individual told me he could arrange that service for me in the Boston area. He wanted me to pay $500 before providing any information about the providers he uses. That seemed very suspicious, and I reached out to Douglas Products at that point. When I told "consulting" company person that I'd contacted Douglas Products and found out there were no Vikane fumigators in Massachusetts, he attempted to use scare tactics to get me to pay for his services. If you want to know the name of this company PM me and I'll tell you (the name if the company is reminiscent of a popular home goods store).

    Before I decided on Vikane treatment, I considered heat treating my moving van. In the process, I contacted PureHeat LLC and was deeply impressed with that company. If I had to do the whole thing over again (goodness forbid!!!) I would probably go with them instead of going all the way down to New York and back for Vikane. I cannot drive, and it would have been much less expensive to pay a driver to go out to Cap Cod than to New York city and back.

    The people at PureHeat were knowledgeable, informative and they took the time to answer a couple of my questions even after I decided to have my belongings fumigated instead of using heat.

    I also had contact with Yankee Pest Control and had a good experience with that company and their bed bug dog handler team. For the last two weeks of my infestation, I couldn't psychologically deal with sleeping in my unit. A good friend took me in. Before going to her place, I stuck everything I carried with me (backpack, a few changes of clothing) including everything I was wearing (shoes too) on high heat in the dryer for 120 minutes.

    When I was staying at her place, bites were still emerging and my skin felt terrible. The last day of my stay, the dog and handler team from Yankee came to my friends house for a K9 inspection. The inspection came up clear, which was a relief. I was worried about the possibility of bringing bed bugs to my friend's place and also about the possibility of false bb alerts from the dog. I know dogs are not 100 accurate, but the clear inspection gave me some comfort.

    My experience with Bed Bug Fumigation Services was very good. Andy Rafferty was knowledgeable, took time to answer my questions and seemed honest. I had my moving truck fumigated on January 6, 2017. The only part of my experience with BBFS that gave me pause was the temperature. It was about 32 or 33 outside when my truck was being fumigated. Andy assured me that they use heaters to raise the ambient temperature of the moving truck to 68F and that they still us 3X rather than the lower gas level that's been approved for bed bugs. The paperwork I received after the fumigation also reads that the ambient temperature was 68F etc.

    But I didn't see them heat the truck and it's a bit difficult to imagine how the truck could have been brought to temperature on the time table BBFS was using. That being said, the product label calls for an ambient temperature of 40F or higher, and I can believe they got the temperature to that point or higher if they used a heater in the truck.

    Since my move, I have seen no evidence of bed bugs, cast skins, eggs or fecal spots. I have passive monitors in place and I have been inspecting regularly.

    I am still having skin reactions, including apparently new bites. I don't know if these are re-flares of old bites or what, but my skin still feels awful and I'm still getting the occasional line of apparently "new" bites pop up.

    Because of my ongoing skin reactions, I wanted a K9 inspection of my new place just to make sure it was clear and that my skin reaction is left-over from previous bites or that it is psychosomatic.

    I contacted PureHeat LLC to ask them who they recommended for a K9 inspection. They gave me the name of Kay MacDonald. She was very good. She bent over backward to be transparent about the process. She also spoke frankly about false alerts, how she recognizes them and what she does about them, which gave me great comfort. (It makes me terribly suspicious if someone wont admit that sometimes things go wrong. When people are able to intelligently explain that things do go wrong sometimes and how they handle that, it feels so much more trustworthy).

    Kay came by yesterday and gave me an all clear. So I'm a little closer to certain that I am indeed all clear.

    And yet, it doesn't feel over. I still have red marks that look like bites coming up, I still have that awful combination of stinging, prickling, tingling, crawling sensation almost daily. I understand why experience PCOs don't regard skin reactions as evidence of infestation. For now, I'm living as if I'm all clear and I'm assuming I am until I find real evidence (fecal stains, shed skins or live bugs) to the contrary.

    I hope this post helps people from the Boston metro area who are facing this nightmare.

    Best,
    Buffy the Vampire Slayer

  2. Poiqm

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    Posted 1 year ago
    Sun Feb 19 2017 1:20:26
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    I still have red marks that look like bites coming up, I still have that awful combination of stinging, prickling, tingling, crawling sensation almost daily.

    Thanks for sharing your experience!

    I just wanted to mentioned that from what I've read skin irritations can be from carpet beetles also. And someone posted that some fiberglass insulation in the central air unit was causing similar symptoms. Are there other places you could be getting bites? Such as at work or a friend's house? Could it be allergy to cleaning product or detergent? (For me, the bites and itchiness stopped immediately after I isolated myself from bites so I would be looking for a source if that was happening to me. )

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  3. mp7ski

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    Posted 1 year ago
    Sun Feb 19 2017 2:11:32
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    Buffy Summers - 1 hour ago  » 
    My experience with Bed Bug Fumigation Services was very good. Andy Rafferty was knowledgeable, took time to answer my questions and seemed honest. I had my moving truck fumigated on January 6, 2017. The only part of my experience with BBFS that gave me pause was the temperature. It was about 32 or 33 outside when my truck was being fumigated. Andy assured me that they use heaters to raise the ambient temperature of the moving truck to 68F and that they still us 3X rather than the lower gas level that's been approved for bed bugs. The paperwork I received after the fumigation also reads that the ambient temperature was 68F etc.
    Best,
    Buffy the Vampire Slayer

    According to EPA, Douglas Products, and a fumigation company in my state, they are breaking the law when they use 3x, if they do indeed do so. By law, they are required to use the labeled dosage. I was going to get my moving truck fumigated but the only company in my state that does it doesn't have a lot of experience with moving trucks and would use the lower 1.9x, not the 3x saying that it was against the law to use the 3x. So I contacted a regional EPA rep and a regional Douglas products rep. and they both said it would be unlawful for them to use anymore than the 1.9x for bed bugs.

    So I decided against it due to how much it would have cost me with no guarantee it'd work. The company that would have been doing said themselves it's not always effective and that some eggs may survive. If it was the 3x, I probably would be planning to do it. But I don't trust that the 1.9x will reach every nook and cranine of my belongings at that same level.

    Instead, me and my family of four are sealing anything we can't replace for 2+years, storing it, and walking out the house with just clothes treated in a dryer and a few important things that will be heat treated as well. On top of it, I have to now replace my vehicle due to the frame on it going out... so I'm in a pretty tough spot here.

    Hope you stay bug free and wish me luck!

    I am not an expert, any advice I give should be considered as amateur advice and not taken as fact. I mean well with all my posts and try to give back. If you plan on using any of my advice, I suggest doing research into said advice to make sure it is in your best interest.
    Study on Thermal Death Points(pages 18-29 of pdf) : http://www.propanecouncil.org/uploadedFiles/Council/Research_and_Development/REP_12221%20Efficacy%20of%20Heat%20on%20Bed%20Bugs.pdf
    Study on Cimexa: http://www.pctonline.com/article/pct0814-silica-gel-research-bed-bugs/
  4. Buffy Summers

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    Posted 1 year ago
    Sun Feb 19 2017 13:06:05
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    Okay, 2 responses:

    1. I mentioned my ongoing skin issues because I think it is important for people to know skin reactions post treatment are not necessarily indicitive of continued infestation or re-exposure.

    I have 1 bite that I know beyond doubt is from mid-November. It still tingles/prickles/stings on occasion.

    In my case, I believe I'm clear, but that I have lingering dermatological effects, including reactions that look like new bites but are not. I also have allergies and eczema that may complicate my skin reactions.

    My philosophy has become: despite my skin response, I refuse to panic. I will assume treatment was successful and that the two seperate canines who cleared me were correct until I find conclusive evidence to the contrary.

    And, despite my insistence that I adopt this rational stance, this nightmare has left emotional and psychological pain points that are gard to heal. My skin reaction may be part of that.

    So the final reality check I perform is to ask: Have I found bed bug poop, cast skins or a live bug?If not, then I assume I'm clear, I check monitors weekly (eventually monthly) and I do my best to treat my post bed bug skin reaction and anxiety with equal parts compassion and realism.

    2. Andy Raffeety orally told me he uses 3x AND he wrote it down on the documents he gave me post fumigation. I doubt he would put that in writing if using 3x for bed bugs in a moving truck in New York were illegal--it makes no sense for him to do that because writting it down would open him up to all sorts of insurance, licencure, regulatory and legal consequences. I imagine it could seriously damage or kill his business. So I'm not terribly worried about that issue.

  5. Poiqm

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    Posted 1 year ago
    Sun Feb 19 2017 13:13:38
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    I also have allergies and eczema that may complicate my skin reactions.

    Very likely. Glad you're on the road to recovery.

  6. mp7ski

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    Posted 1 year ago
    Sun Feb 19 2017 17:36:53
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    Buffy Summers - 4 hours ago  » 
    2. Andy Raffeety orally told me he uses 3x AND he wrote it down on the documents he gave me post fumigation. I doubt he would put that in writing if using 3x for bed bugs in a moving truck in New York were illegal--it makes no sense for him to do that because writting it down would open him up to all sorts of insurance, licencure, regulatory and legal consequences. I imagine it could seriously damage or kill his business. So I'm not terribly worried about that issue.

    Agreed, that's why I don't get why I was told by the EPA and Douglas products it'd be illegal for them to use the 3x. It's frustrating. That's why I contacted the EPA and Douglas products to see if the fumigation company could use the 3x after they told me they legally couldnt. Then if the EPA or Douglas told me it was legal, I would have informed the fumigation company and tried to get it done at the 3x. Does the paper work specifically say it was for bed bugs. Cause they use vikane for multiple pests and I wonder if one way he gets away with it is saying it's for a different bug. I thought about talking to that fumigation company about fumigation for a different pest that takes a higher dosage even though bed bugs are my issue.

    This is the email I received from Donald Baumgartner of the EPA:

    "The United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) Region 5 (Chicago) Pesticides Section is in receipt of your inquiry as below.

    All commercial applicators have to follow the label directions for the product that is being used. No exception. The labels are the result of both EPA science evaluations of each chemical, and the chemical manufacturer’s requirements. All pesticides are registered and the labels accepted at EPA Headquarters, so I cannot say what situations have resulted in the changes to the Vikane label. However, provided as below are the listed contacts at EPA Headquarters for the product.

    Please keep in mind too that many fumigants are ozone destroyers, and so much attention has been paid to these products regarding ozone protection. This may have been another factor in the label dosage changes.

    Hope that this helps."

    Glad he used the 3x for you. Wish I could get a company to do so whether it's legal or not.

  7. SopranoKris

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    Posted 1 year ago
    Sun Feb 19 2017 21:29:10
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    I just found out about Vikane gas today. I wish I would have known about this from the beginning. We could have skipped all the nightmare we've been living through and had the house tented. GAH!

    I've contacted 4 companies to get estimates on what it would cost to get it the house tented. I want this nightmare over & done with!!!

  8. mp7ski

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    Posted 1 year ago
    Sun Feb 19 2017 22:46:01
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    SopranoKris - 46 minutes ago  » 
    I just found out about Vikane gas today. I wish I would have known about this from the beginning. We could have skipped all the nightmare we've been living through and had the house tented. GAH!
    I've contacted 4 companies to get estimates on what it would cost to get it the house tented. I want this nightmare over & done with!!!

    Do your homework when it comes to fumigation. The most effective fumigant used for bed bugs is Sulfur Flouride with the original maker being DOW industries, which labeled it Vikane. They've since sold it to Douglas Products.

    A few things to keep in mind.

    Nothing is guaranteed. If done right, it is one of the best treatment options out there, but there are plenty of failures out there even at the 3x concentration.

    The concentration level for bed bugs was lowered a few years ago from 3x that of drywood termites to 1.9x based on a lab study done at a university, which was presented to dow, and then presented to the EPA which in turn lowered the label dosage for bed bugs.

    Fumigation offers no residual so anything you bring back into the home after, could reinfest the residence. So it's advisable to take as little as possible and debug anything youre taking before leaving for the treatment.

    Sulfur Flouride also can't penetrate plastic, glass, or metal so anything made of such materials and is enclosed could be problematic when it comes to fumigation.

    Vikane can also only be used during the spring/summer/fall months when the ambient air temperature is at least 40°F for the whole treatment period, though the warmer the temp. the better.

    Do your research on the company... it has to be done correctly or it will undoubtedly end in failure. If I remember right you live in MI. Well the only company in MI that is legally licensed to use Vikane according to its maker, Douglas products, who I contacted, is Rose Pest Solutions.

    My advice would be to contact Douglas Products directly and get the number for their regional representative for your area. I talked to him on the phone and he could help. He also said Rose is the only company in MI that can use Vikane but he also said he may have a few companies in Ohio who may be able to come up and do the fumigation.

    Also, keep in mind Fumigation is not cheap up here. You're most likely looking at anywhere between $7,000-15,000. If you lived down south, it'd be cheaper due to fumigation being used often for termites.

    I looked into it for a while. But the cost, the fact they lowered the dosage, and the fact I only had one company to choose from, which didn't have much experience with it in the first place, are things that pushed me away from it.

  9. Buffy Summers

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    Posted 1 year ago
    Sun Feb 19 2017 23:53:30
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    Images of my fume log, fyi:

    Image and video hosting by TinyPic

    Image and video hosting by TinyPic

    Hope these links work!

  10. mp7ski

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    Mon Feb 20 2017 0:51:29
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    Buffy Summers - 45 minutes ago  » 
    Images of my fume log, fyi:
    Image and video hosting by TinyPic
    Image and video hosting by TinyPic
    Hope these links work!

    Thanks for uploading those, always wondered what those logs looked like.

    But man does that anger me a bit. Something he's doing or something he knows must make it legal, I wish I knew. I don't get why the heck all these people keep telling me it's illegal to do the 3x.

    There's a thread on here from before it was switched to the 1.9x and that person already had one failed fumigation on their household, so they contacted dow (before they sold it) had a rep and the fumigation come out again and perform the fumigation but instead of the 3x they did it at 6x and it worked. According to the people I spoke to that should have been illegal as well. It's frustrating. I even contacted Andy from BBFS back when I talked to the EPA and Douglas products about his methods and if he used the 3x still or not and he wouldn't tell me at the time, he just referred me to a company in my area but they don't service all the way up here.

    I'm starting to hate living in michigan. Wish BBFS had separate branches in different states. Michigan is getting out of hand with 3 cities in the top 15 for bed bug infestated cities.

    Glad he did you good, hope you stay bug free.

  11. Buffy Summers

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    Posted 12 months ago
    Mon Feb 20 2017 22:13:53
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    Something just jogged my memory--it might be the timing. I remember speaking with Andy on the phone and asking if I could have the truck under gas for 24 hours. He said I could but that it would be more expensive and he would have to use 1.9X instead of 3X. I opted for the shorter time period with 3X because I wanted that dosage.

  12. Kama

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    Posted 11 months ago
    Sun Mar 5 2017 15:55:20
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    I have a similar experience. I moved from a Bed Bug infestation and pretreated the everything of mine before moving into a new place in the Boston area.

    After doing it I've had 2 inspections from separate groups which both said I have no bed bugs. Only problem is that I'm itching and still getting lines of bites too. I notice that when I bump against people they sometimes they happen to itch. Part of me believes it's a psychological reaction, yet I'm not dismissing the possibility that I might be spreading something.

    If it's anything I'm guessing it could be mold spores at this point.

  13. Nobugsonme

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    Mon Mar 6 2017 0:37:02
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    Kama - 8 hours ago  » 
    I have a similar experience. I moved from a Bed Bug infestation and pretreated the everything of mine before moving into a new place in the Boston area.
    After doing it I've had 2 inspections from separate groups which both said I have no bed bugs. Only problem is that I'm itching and still getting lines of bites too. I notice that when I bump against people they sometimes they happen to itch. Part of me believes it's a psychological reaction, yet I'm not dismissing the possibility that I might be spreading something.
    If it's anything I'm guessing it could be mold spores at this point.

    Hi Kama,
    This is really kind of off topic here. Please start a new thread to discuss your situation, if you like.

    I started and run the site but am "not an expert."
  14. mp7ski

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    Sat Apr 22 2017 5:55:54
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    Buffy Summers - 2 months ago  » 
    Something just jogged my memory--it might be the timing. I remember speaking with Andy on the phone and asking if I could have the truck under gas for 24 hours. He said I could but that it would be more expensive and he would have to use 1.9X instead of 3X. I opted for the shorter time period with 3X because I wanted that dosage.

    Well, this is interesting. I actually called and talked to Andy myself... seems like a stand up guy and is very knowledgeable regarding bed bugs and fumigation obviously. I had a few questions for him which he took the time to answer even though I'm nowhere near his service area.

    What is very interesting is that when I asked him about the 1.9x concentration and what concentration he uses and that I wanted the company I'm using to perform it at 3x but they told me it'd be illegal since it'd be off label, he never came out and said he uses the 1.9x or the 3x. I asked if it's legal to use 3x if it's for a shorter time and he said no since the same amount of gas would be used and in turn would be released into the atmosphere.

    Now here's the really ironic part... he did however mention that there was this one woman not to long ago that was from the BOSTON area and brought her truck to his facility to have it fumigated. Sound familiar... He then went on to say he used the 3x because she(probably you) stated that there was also a carpet beetle issue as well, which takes 3x. So he treated for both carpet beetles and bed bugs at the same time by using the 3x.

    Now, I find it hard to believe that this was not you he was talking about. You never said anything about carpet beetles and it's not even written on your fume log, but how many women does he have drive from Boston and use the 3x on... I even mentioned I'm pretty sure I talked to who he was talking about online and he sorta acted a little wierd, I mentioned bedbugger and he just said, ya I should probably get on there every once in a while.

    It's a head scratcher for me, I don't get it. I've talked so much to this company I'm going to use that they know me by name and I doubt I could call them back up and be like, "oh, btw, I also have a carpet beetle problem, can you fumigate at the 3x for them as well."

    I just hate this, I don't have much confidence in the 1.9x but in my situation, I don't see much of an option.

  15. bugged-cdn

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    Posted 10 months ago
    Sat Apr 22 2017 7:03:37
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    I asked if it's legal to use 3x if it's for a shorter time and he said no since the same amount of gas would be used and in turn would be released into the atmosphere.

    But they can use 3x if there are carpet beetles? I don't get it. Wouldn't the 3x gas concentration get released into the atmosphere whether it's carpet beetles or bed bugs, thereby making it illegal?

  16. mp7ski

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    bugged-cdn - 10 minutes ago  » 

    I asked if it's legal to use 3x if it's for a shorter time and he said no since the same amount of gas would be used and in turn would be released into the atmosphere.

    But they can use 3x if there are carpet beetles? I don't get it. Wouldn't the 3x gas concentration get released into the atmosphere whether it's carpet beetles or bed bugs, thereby making it illegal?

    All has to do with the label of vikane. Bed bugs on the new label require 1.9x of drywood termites. Carpet beetles require 3x (same as what bed bugs needed on the old label). There's multiple pests on the label and one even calls for 10x that of drywood termites.

    So, if they just follow the label based on whatever pest they are treating, it's legal.

    And the thing is, with carpet beetles, you have to fumigation twice cause it doesn't kill the egg stage.

    I just don't get why DOW even considered a label change. Enough people were having failures at 3x already.

    I've heard part of the reason was to make fumigation more affordable.
    What? More affordable for who, the fumigators? Cause most the cost to the customer is the labor and materials involved, not the fumigant.

    If it was to be more affordable why would it cost me close to $2500 to do a 17' moving truck.

    Maybe DOW realized they made an epic mistake and didn't want their reps having to deal with unhappy customers and failed fumigations so they sold the rights to Douglas Products.

  17. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 10 months ago
    Sat Apr 22 2017 16:01:17
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    mp7ski,
    Is there a basis for your concern that the current legal level for treating bed bugs doesn't work?

  18. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 10 months ago
    Sat Apr 22 2017 16:04:18
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    Buffy Summers-- I sent you a private message.

  19. mp7ski

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    Sat Apr 22 2017 19:53:56
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    Nobugsonme - 3 hours ago  » 
    mp7ski,
    Is there a basis for your concern that the current legal level for treating bed bugs doesn't work?

    Well, my concern is not that 1.9x isn't enough to kill bugs and eggs. My concern is that there will always be some loss of fumigant. It's my understanding that they make up for this by adding to the overall fumigation time, not necessarily pumping in more gas. I'm sure there's a point where no matter how long you hold in the gas, it won't be concentrated enough to be efficious for that certain pest. I seen a thread on here where someone educated in the field was discussing this with Paul Bello. Also, I'm concerned that there will be places in my belongings that will be less concentrated than others and not be enough.

    To me, these seem like realistic concerns. Also, I sense something fishy going on here with BBFS. Buffy has to be the same person he was talking about on the phone. Same time frame, from boston, and used the 3x concentration. If indeed he was able to use the 3x because she had carpet beetles, why isn't it on her fume log and why didn't Buffy say anything about it on here.

    I'm concerned that there is a hidden reason behind why BBFS used the 3x. Was it cause he himself doesn't trust the 1.9x in a moving truck fumigation so he found a way around it, whether it be saying it was for another pest, or even possibly having an arrangement with the local epa and NY to be able to still use the 3x (not likely but you never know).

    I'm just doing my due dilligence, moving and pulling this off will cost me around $5000 and a week off work (paid vacation) so I'm just making sure it's the best thing to do.

    I pretty much have my mind made up now. I will do it before the summers out no doubt. I plan on pretreating everything I can with ddvp strips, a packtite, and the clothes dryer just to increase my odds. Pretty much the only things that won't be pretreating before fumigation would be electronics. I'm not bringing any furniture, renting a dumpster and throwing out our beds and any other furniture, just don't want to chance it. I'd consider keeping some of it it if we had a small infestation but thats not the case. Plus, most of our furniture is old and beaten up anyways. I can replace most of our furniture and beds for about $1500 if I just go cheap.

  20. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 10 months ago
    Sat Apr 22 2017 20:52:05
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    If the dosage was justified based on a different target pest, it doesn't make sense that the log would list "bed bugs and eggs" as the target pest.

  21. mp7ski

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    Posted 10 months ago
    Sat Apr 22 2017 21:17:33
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    Nobugsonme - 5 minutes ago  » 
    If the dosage was justified based on a different target pest, it doesn't make sense that the log would list "bed bugs and eggs" as the target pest.

    One would think. That's why I think something fishy is going on here. But I swear on my life that Andy Rafferty from BBFS, said that not too long ago, a women from Boston drove to his facility and got her moving truck fumigated. He said that she stated she had carpet beetles as well so that's a situation he was able to use 3x. He mentioned this when i questioned if it was possible to use the 3x legally. Could this have been someone else from Boston other than Buffy around the same time, sure. But that doesn't change the fact Buffy had it done at 3x regardless of why. Andy brought this situation up without me mentioning this thread whatsoever(I eventually did after he brought that situation up). Another puzzling part is that carpet beetles require 2 different fumigations since the egg stage is not effected, so the 2nd fumigation is needed to kill any hatched eggs. So why would he even treat for carpet beetles if it would need a unplanned 2nd fumigation?

    And like you said, if carpet beetles were the reason, it's doesn't make sense to not list it on the fume log, yet you can clearly see that he did use 3x on buffys log, but states it's for bed bugs and eggs. Why he would tell me the reasoning for him using 3x is carpet beetles and then not put it on the fume log, makes no sense to me at all.

    I'm not trying to accuse Andy of breaking the law or get him in trouble or something like that. I just want to know if he knows something everybody else doesn't and there is a hidden reason behind him using 3x.

  22. mp7ski

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    Posted 10 months ago
    Sun Apr 23 2017 16:32:26
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    No offense nobugs, cause I appreciate what you've done with this forum and how much of a help it is to people, but I feel like you have a problem with me questioning the fumigation process and the concentration levels.

    Quite frankly, if I'm going to spend $2500 on a treatment that could greatly impact my family and I's future, I'm going to do my due diligence in researching that treatment and try and get the best possible treatment as possible. Isn't that partially what this forum is for.

    At the end of the day there is a fundamental question here... why did he use the 3x concentration for buffys fumigation. Cause the reason he told me he could use the 3x on the phone, does not line up with what buffy says or her log says. Am I saying the 1.9x isn't going to work... no I sure as hell hope it does since I'm going to do it, but don't knock me for doing my due diligence looking into it.

  23. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 10 months ago
    Sun Apr 23 2017 23:25:26
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    mp7ski - 6 hours ago  » 
    No offense nobugs, cause I appreciate what you've done with this forum and how much of a help it is to people, but I feel like you have a problem with me questioning the fumigation process and the concentration levels...
    At the end of the day there is a fundamental question here... why did he use the 3x concentration for buffys fumigation. Cause the reason he told me he could use the 3x on the phone, does not line up with what buffy says or her log says. Am I saying the 1.9x isn't going to work... no I sure as hell hope it does since I'm going to do it, but don't knock me for doing my due diligence looking into it.

    I don't need to defend anything I have written above. That said, I'm not sure what you think you see above that equates to "knocking you".

    I asked what the basis was for your concern that the currently legal dosage isn't enough to kill bed bugs. which I think is a reasonable question given the thread.

  24. mp7ski

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    Posted 10 months ago
    Mon Apr 24 2017 6:31:16
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    Fair enough, sorry.

  25. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 10 months ago
    Mon Apr 24 2017 12:40:31
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    mp7ski - 6 hours ago  » 
    Fair enough, sorry.

    That's okay. I understand you're having a rough time. But consider that many of us have been answering questions here for over ten years, and it can get kind of exhausting when there's so much tension and drama. Everyone here doesn't agree all the time but most are just trying to help.


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