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Martin [bird] bug treatment differs how?

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  1. Immi

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Sun Jul 19 2015 2:35:43
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    My bedroom is infested with Martin Bugs. They have been investigated and it was confirmed that those are Martin Bugs. Not a surprise with a nest with a dead Martin bird covered in bugs, and also different behaviour of the bugs, e.g. walking over the ceiling during daytime.
    There are several inhabited Martin nests left under my window and under that of the bedroom next to it. That second bedroom is free from bugs until now, we all sleep there now for over a week and no one has been bitten. In the infested room only one of the children had bug bites.

    The pest control organisation has suggested to either heat the bedrooms to 55-60 degrees celcius or treat them chemically with K-othrin. For financial reasons I can only opt for the chemical treatment, which I am not happy about, especially with very little children in the house.

    On the internet I found several notices that Martin bug treatment is different from bed bug treatment, but not what the difference is exactly. We will remove the nests when the little birds have left their nests. But what afterwards??? Can Martin bugs stay alive with only humans as hosts? Can they reproduce without their preferred hosts? I would even be prepared to keep this room unused for several months if I can prevent my matresses having to be chemically treated.

  2. Immi

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Sun Jul 19 2015 3:30:50
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    Trying to put a picture here of one of the bugs. Not succeeded yet

    Embedding doesn't work, maybe clickable does?
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/134852000@N02/shares/VHj026

  3. Immi

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Mon Jul 20 2015 9:17:42
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    Update. It is now one week ago that the birdnest with the dead bird was removed. I have kept the infested bedroom closed for that week. Closed it with tape so the children couldn't get in and the bugs maybe could get out a little less easy. Today I opened the room because a contractor had to look at the roof construction. I found NO bugs anywhere. Not on the walls, not on the mattress, nowhere. Could it be that since the human restaurant is closed now they moved back to the birdnests? Of are they hiding? Does it make a difference for treatment strategies?

  4. Immi

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Tue Jul 21 2015 16:40:14
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    It seems this type of bugs is very rare.. not much info about it.
    Maybe members of this great forum can help me with something else? I am looking for bedbug mattress covers in sizes of about 90x210x18, 90x210x32 and 180x210x7? In Dutch webshops I find only one of the recommended brands and with a maximum of 200 cm. Preferrably a European webshop because of customs.

  5. Immi

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Tue Jul 28 2015 15:36:59
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    Finally I found info. I'd like to share it for anyone else searching for information about these bed bug like bugs.
    I had contact with the Dutch Institute of Pest Expertise http://www.kad.nl/Dutch_Institute_of_Pest_Expertise.htm
    It seems that martin bird bugs can not build a population on only human blood. Also they do not make nests in beds, only in birdnests. Because we haven't used the room for over two weeks now most of the bugs have returned to the birdnests. I find only dead or almost dead bugs now. I was adviced to remove the nests as soon as it is legally allowed. In the house I can use steam or just clean and wash thourougly. Chemical treatment is optional. In a very old house like mine it is probably wise to chemically treat the entrances in the walls once the nests are removed. This way I will maybe see dead or even a living bug for months but eventually they will be gone in a few generations of bugs. I will have to prevent the birds for nesting here next year because a surviving bug could start a new population.
    For me I have decided to clean and steam and to have a limited chemical treatment done. Because I don't like bugs or bug bites I will wait using this room until wintertime, hoping they will be dead or inactive by that time.

  6. ItsJustABug

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Tue Jul 28 2015 19:21:41
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    First I am sorry your having this experience and thanks for posting the Pic's.
    It must have been nerve racking to see them in mid day all over the walls , yet not finding the usual bedbug signs.
    That is why its important to get the ID before treatment as its not bedbugs you would have been exposed to the chemicals & cost and still have the bugs. I'm glad you got it figured out.

    Best of luck to you on getting the birds to relocate nesting next year.
    My sister had the same issue with Martin & she finely put up Martin nest houses unattached to the house in the same are & they took to it the next year, she was So Happy that it worked for her as they are very stubborn birds.
    Good Luck

  7. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Tue Jul 28 2015 23:17:17
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    Thanks for sharing your information on Martin Bugs. I am glad you were aware of the correct species, so a resolution is possible. I hope your troubles are gone soon!

    I started and run the site but am "not an expert."
  8. Immi

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Fri Jul 31 2015 16:59:34
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    I have now 2 of the 5 nests removed (empty) and I am preventing the birds from making a new one. I did't expect them to do so, but apparently it is not too late for them to start a new breed.
    Those were indeed nerve wrecking weeks. Now I know how bed bugs can cause psychological problems. It is a relieve mine are not bed bugs but I will never sleep well in a hotel again. Before the actual ID I have been wondering if I picked up bed bugs in a Greek hotel where I stayed in may.

    I am planning to change part of the color of my house. I find it difficult to explain (English is not my native language) but the part where the birds make their nests is between the stones and the roof gutter with the nests attached to the cross beams. This part of the house is white. Since my front door is dark green I am probably allowed to paint it this green color. Hopefully it is enough to make them relocate or otherwise I have to keep removing the start of their nests. I know no good place here to place nest houses. My house is with the front free to river foreland(?, google translate). Or maybe they will move to the neighbours house. They have one nest there and I informed the neighbours about the bugs.

    The other thing I will do is buy a dry steamer. I have some questions left about that, will open a topic in the right section of the forum. I decided to do it all by myself, because the PCO insisted on treating like they were bed bugs. Also I have another pest in the house (really... all kinds of insects coming from house sparrow nests in my roof: moss mites, flies, mealworm beetles and maybe other beetles). I would love to steam those rooms too. House needs a new roof... that's for sure.

  9. Immi

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Fri Jul 31 2015 17:17:59
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    Oh I see I am in the treatment part already.
    I read the FAQ but it only gave me more questions.
    It seems the Vapamore is not for sale here. Ordering from USA will give problems with adapters and customs will take their share, making it more expensive. I could find the Cimex Eradicator at amazon.de (which ships to my country). This seems to be a good but expensive choice if I read well. Am I missing a "best choice" for European buyers?
    Can I use dry steam for matresses? Or will I get problems with mold or with the (biological) glue between layers (I have a coco-mat bed)? It would be great to steam it now and then against dust mites. And if I want to buy a mask for not inhaling the HPmed stuff or gasses coming from heated paint or furniture, what specifications will I need to look for?

    I am sorry if I am asking for information that I could have found by searching well or reading better. Its an information overload now, I have been reading about bugs for hours almost every night in the last two weeks. Mostly on this phantastic forum. I am very happy that it exists.

  10. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Fri Jul 31 2015 21:22:11
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    Thanks for your kind words about the forum-- I am glad you found us.

    It seems the Vapamore is not for sale here. Ordering from USA will give problems with adapters and customs will take their share, making it more expensive. I could find the Cimex Eradicator at amazon.de (which ships to my country). This seems to be a good but expensive choice if I read well. Am I missing a "best choice" for European buyers?

    Polti (Italian company) makes many fine steamers and I understand they are available widely in Europe. The Cimex Eradicator is a newer model, specifically aimed at treating bed bugs, but there are less expensive options from the same company, which I am sure many have used to treat bed bugs.

    What you're looking for is a "dry vapor" steamer (which is less likely to create mold than regular, "wetter" steam). Here in the US, the Vapamore is among the lowest end dry vapor steamers. Look at Polti's line and see what options they have in your price range. I am sure there are other reputable companies which sell steamers in Europe, but this is the one I am most familiar with, because they have such an international reach.

    Note the steam FAQ has additional tips as to method and features you're looking for in terms of temperature, but I suspect most dry vapor steamers are going to be able to meet those requirements. It's worth checking.


    Can I use dry steam for matresses?

    Generally speaking, yes.. but...

    Or will I get problems with mold or with the (biological) glue between layers (I have a coco-mat bed)? It would be great to steam it now and then against dust mites.

    I am not familiar with coco-mat beds. The best thing to do is ask the manufacturer. They will know if dry vapor steam is likely to damage their beds.

    And if I want to buy a mask for not inhaling the HPmed stuff or gasses coming from heated paint or furniture, what specifications will I need to look for?

    This is covered in the steam FAQ also. Look at the type suggested by KillerQueen in the FAQ and then try to find the European equivalent (aimed at same sort of materials). Asking in a good hardware shop may give you leads also, in terms of what the models are in Europe

    I hope this helps!

  11. KillerQueen

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Fri Jul 31 2015 23:22:38
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    Most steam machines are made in Europe. You'll find plenty in your price range as nobugs mentioned. Follow the steaming FAQ's here and you shouldn't have any problem.

  12. Immi

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Sat Aug 1 2015 2:49:33
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    Thanks, I'll expand my search, in my country the other Polti options were more expensive than ordering the Cimex Eradicator in Germany. And I'll ask the matress manufacturer.

  13. ItsJustABug

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Sat Aug 1 2015 3:19:59
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    "Immi " I know no good place here to place nest houses. My house is with the front free to river foreland(?, google translate).

    I think the translation is river front land or water front land in English..
    It is the same for my sister she lives on river land & she placed the Martin houses on poles ,like flag poles & the bird houses being elevated was more to their liking . she researched and found : A height of 12 to 20 feet is recommended in full sun most of the day & they are all painted white.
    She also like you had to change the color on the house, so you seem to be on the right track.

  14. Richard56

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Sat Aug 1 2015 6:58:27
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    Immi: Thanks, I'll expand my search, in my country the other Polti options were more expensive than ordering the Cimex Eradicator in Germany.
    ------------------------------------------------------
    Don't know about shipping and/or customs but on Amazon Italy, the Cimex Eradicator is less than half the price here in the U.S.A. At that price I'd be very tempted but the current is different so it won't work here.

    http://www.amazon.it/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_0_12/279-5065629-7496333?__mk_it_IT=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=polti+cimex+eradicator&sprefix=polti+cimex+%2Caps%2C264

    Richard

  15. Immi

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Sat Aug 1 2015 14:57:39
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    You are right, great offer. I started the proces of ordering it but they don't ship outside of Italy. That's a pity!

  16. Immi

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Sat Aug 1 2015 15:10:31
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    Found it on e-bay for the same price. It is astonishing how prices can differ. For example, the the HpMed fluid 2x50 ml is EUR 29.50 on amazon.de and EUR 96 on ebay.
    That makes me wonder if the accessory kit of EUR 120 on ebay is priced fair. My search is continuing

  17. Richard56

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Sat Aug 1 2015 15:37:36
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    In U.S. I believe you get 2 hp meds with the CE at no xtra cost but it's the steam that kills not the hp meds so save your money if that's an issue. (The CE wont run without the hp med cannister inserted but the It functions fine with an empty cannister inserted)

    Richard

  18. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Sat Aug 1 2015 15:49:50
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    Immi - 51 minutes ago  » 
    You are right, great offer. I started the proces of ordering it but they don't ship outside of Italy. That's a pity!

    The Cimex Eradicator is available on amazon.de:

    http://www.amazon.de/Polti-PTGB0046-Cimex-Eradicator/dp/B00R3C8OW4

    Price is 160 Euro more than amazon.ie, but it is available. You might look at other Polti models on amazon.de.

  19. Immi

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Sat Aug 1 2015 16:18:01
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    Thanks, I will order it on ebay. Same store as amazon.it but here it will send to almost all European country. I have been looking at other Polti models but can't make out really which ones meet the bedbug standards AND work quickly. Loosing track with Fahrenheit-Celcius and other specifications - and just not gifted with much intelligence for technical stuff

    It will take lots of time steaming two rooms and the attic and for me being able to work rapidly and thorough at the same time is important. Single mom with almost fulltime job, I want to spend my time with my kids, not with bugs and birds.

    Thanks for helping me out with this. I can almost feel happy by the thought of starting to steam and afterwards being able to use my room again!

  20. Immi

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Sun Aug 2 2015 16:48:31
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    I just ordered a Cimex Eradicator on ebay. € 625 including shipping. That's way less than the PCO would cost with their heat treatment and a big relief compared to the chemical treatment.
    Also I removed the third nest today. The birds had left it empty. Two more to go, those will take some more weeks I guess as the birds are still feeding inside the nests, I haven't seen the young ones yet.

  21. Richard56

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Sun Aug 2 2015 17:44:08
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    There are a number of videos showing the proper use of the Cimex Eradicator (CE), several with EffiCi, a PCO who used to post here. I suggest you review them for proper technique as the CE works differently from more traditional steamers.

    Also, since your problem is Martin Bugs, I'm assuming the harborage areas are different and therefore your treatment strategy with the CE should reflect that.

    For example, EffiCi, who uses the CE exclusively (no chemicals) for bed bugs, has a very comprehensive first treatment. Then there is a waiting period for the surving bed bugs to regroup. During that time you act as bait by sleeping in your bed so the bed bugs will start heading that way. The second and possibly third and fourth treatments therefore are in a progressively narrower range surrounding the bed.

    This makes sense with bed bugs since you are the host, but maybe not so much with Martin Bugs. Definitely do as much research as possible regarding Martin Bugs so your steam strategy will be successful.

    Richard

  22. Immi

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Tue Aug 11 2015 12:29:54
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    Thanks. It arrived today and I am viewing video's, still waiting for the birds to go.

  23. Immi

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Wed Aug 12 2015 14:11:46
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    With the CE were two booklets. One instruction manual. The other a guide how to effectively get rid of bedbugs with the CE. I wouldn't be surprised if it was (co-)written by EffeCi. It corresponds with a lot I read here, for example about letting the bugs regroup. And on the instruction manual there is a picture with his associate on it. I think it is great the machine comes with such good information so people won't make their problem worse. So EffeCi, if you read this some day: thank you!

  24. Richard56

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Wed Aug 12 2015 14:22:27
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    Immi:

    (The CE instruction manual) corresponds with a lot I read here, for example about letting the bugs regroup.

    Great that you got the CE and instruction manual. I think you made a very good investment!

    But as to the above, please note that the part about "bugs regroup(ing)", and perhaps the instruction manual as a whole, refer to BED BUGS. You have MARTIN BUGS, and the treatment is different.

    I am not expert enough to know how different the treatment is in regards to your steam approach, but please research that out before simply following CE steam bed bug protocols.

    And, btw, if you haven't found them, there are a number of EffiCi videos on the web you can view yourself as to technique, etc., but again, he's using them for bed bugs, not martin bugs.

    Richard

  25. Immi

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Wed Aug 12 2015 15:50:51
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    I know but I will use logic thinking and the scarce information about martin bugs that I found.
    The text about regrouping was to show that the information seems okay to me for use by bedbug victims.

    My plan:
    1. Remove the bird-nests shortly after they have been left empty by the birds.
    2. The same day treat the room the same way as with bed bugs with a focus on the bed and the cracks where I suspect they entered the room (I have seen them march into the room the first days)
    3. Start sleeping in the room again
    4. After 1-2 weeks treat the area around the entrances again and the bed (since the birds will be gone I expect them to come to the bed for feeding on me)
    5. preventing the birds to come back next year

    I have more margin of error than people fighting bed bugs. Reducing their numbers will be enough to prevent them from building a population. But I want to kill them all preferably. I don't like them to bite my children or me. Especially since I found notices that martin bird bugs could maybe transfer diseases like west nile virus. I don't know it it is true and I guess it is not very likely to happy but still... I prefer not to offer them a meal.

    I am in doubt if I will make a construction to be able to steam the places where the nests have been from the outside. It is likely that is where the bugs nests. But it will be difficult to provide a safe working position and probably it will be safer not to do this. It could be that this will make my treatment fail. If repeated steaming won't help I will rethink about having the PCO leave a chemical residue around the entrances.

    Last weeks I haven't seen a single bug in the room anymore except dead ones. I took the sheets of the bed to wash them: two dead ones. No living.

  26. Immi

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Sat Sep 12 2015 16:51:39
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    Update, they're (almost) gone
    The last birds left on August 29. The next day I steamed everything in the room and the room itself. I found only one living bug, in the woolen blanket under the fitted sheet. I think I steamed way more than necessary but feeling bug-free was worth it. I glued some cracks after steaming and letting them dry (not really glue... the special thing for it). I put adhesive tape double so that they couldn't climb the bed. Everything else was outside the room. The next day I saw some bugs crawling in at one place. Steamed again and glued. Several days later 1 nymf and another day 1 adult. Glued more. Now I have seen none since 5 days. I have been sleeping there for about 10 nights now. My daughter (who gets the allergic reactions) 2 times in the morning. No bites.
    Since they can't build a population on human blood it is no problem if I see one once or twice in a week. Every time they are still on the same wall and I can remove them. I check all the walls every morning and every evening.

    My only worry is that in 2 weeks the roof will be removed, and about 40 nests of another kind of birds will be removed. I wonder if the martin bugs have moved there (quite a distance). But if it happens I will be ready to steam again and I removed as much furniture as possible from the attic and rooms that will be open for some days. The people who will do the work are informed about the bugs.

  27. Leila

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    Posted 1 month ago
    Tue Jan 15 2019 16:30:11
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    Ho there i hope you still get alerts to this post.
    I m treating for bedbugs since 9 months . We did everything.
    We also had 9 swallownest around house . Gone since august .
    And bats nearby. So im desperate to know if it maybe martin bugs.
    The thing is its january. We re getten bitten and blood stains in bed. But never found bugs on bed. Dogs alerted behind walls and beams.
    Where do i look for them i need to find one to have it identified.
    I saw one beside the baby. It was like a bedbug and paper thin from the side. But i never had it identified wether bedbug ir martin bug or bat bug. Would they still bite in january? After all nests been removed in august? Where do they nest? Thank you . Are yours gone?
    I must say as soon as digs detected bedbugs and i smashed one full of blood i didnt look into bedbox i just immidiatly packed the bed up hermetically and had roped it out of Window. Did they go into your clothes? Not sure im only beeing bitten in bed..

  28. Immi

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    Posted 1 month ago
    Wed Jan 16 2019 15:15:06
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    Hi Leila,
    Yes, still get alerts
    You would have to find one for closer examination to be sure if it is a bedbug, martin bug or something else. If I remember wel the martin bug has a more pointed shield at the rear end, the other differences are difficult to see without magnification. Paper thin doesn't sound like bedbugs or martin bugs.

    You could remove and open the swallow nests to see if there are martin bugs in it. That would make it very clear. If you have none left they could be everywhere by now. I spotted them on the walls even at clear day, also a difference with bedbugs. Those hide during day, the swallow bugs just kept crawling around.

    I read here that they can live about 8 months without blood meals. The ones that I kept in a closed box didn't make it that long though, but for sure some months. I think they bite all year long, so the nests being removed doesn't make a difference.

    The good news: mine are gone. Even after some years now, the martin birds do not have their nests at my house, the green paint made a huge difference. The roof is renewed and closed with isolation foil so no infestations anymore. I treated the room where we had them completely with the cimex eradicator. We only used a little poison between the isolation and the brick wall because that was their entrance and the cimex couldn't reach all through it.

    Your last question: I didn't find them in clothes at first, but with cleaning everything with hot wash or cimex I did find some in my wardrobe and between clothes. But I must confess for some weeks I kept washing and wearing the few sets of clothes that were not in that room, until I found out how I could de-bug my wardrobe and clothes.

    It was a hell of a job but totally worth it, no more bugs here!

  29. Leila

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    Posted 1 month ago
    Sat Jan 19 2019 2:06:39
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    Thank you for your answer - somehow don’t get alerts so have to reconnect and check.
    We took down nests when little ones were flying. With a high pressure water sprayer.
    Why did you paint green? Did they try and build again?
    Can’t you just remove the nests with sprayer each time they try and build a nest. Won’t they give up building a nest after spraying their nest away a couple of times. Thought i would be doing that when they arrive back in April.
    Still have to capture one to identify it. The unfed one on our bed - from the side he was paper thin. And just looked like a bedbug from the top. Your were not thin from the side?

  30. Leila

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    Posted 1 month ago
    Sat Jan 19 2019 2:09:37
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    But with 9 nests built around our bedrooms and the dogs marking walls that have not been treated by heat i’m thinking it could be that..

  31. Immi

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    Posted 1 week ago
    Sun Feb 10 2019 16:02:34
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    The dark green paint is because they don't nest there. I believe because it reflects the sun and the nests would get too hot for the little ones. Apparantly they are smart enough not to build there. I read this about black paint but that would not fit my old and characteristic house. Dark green was a good alternative and it worked out well.
    They never tried to build again.


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