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Market research question - please input

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  1. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Thu May 8 2014 9:00:03
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    Hi,

    I am very interested in any feedback anyone could give me about the need for a product that you can pop your mobile or laptop into and 12 hours later it is 100% free from bedbugs. I am specifically looking at electronics and items that do not have appropriate other solutions such as PackTite and washing/tumble drying.

    It is not based on synthetic insecticides and could be found on the extensive 25B list?

    I pilot studies have all been 100% successful in just 12 hours but as part of evaluating the project potential we are looking for consumer feedback, in particular:

    What do you feel is a fair retail price for a bag large enough for mobile, keys and wallet?

    What do you feel is a fair retail price for a bag large enough for a laptop?

    Would you be interested in a product large enough for the box spring of your bed? and if so how much would you pay?

    Yes, its likley to only come with a citrus scent at this stage.

    Thanks in advance of any input.

    David Cain
    Bed Bugs Limited

  2. AbsolutelyFreaking

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Thu May 8 2014 12:14:13
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    bed-bugscouk - 2 hours ago  » 
    I am very interested in any feedback anyone could give me about the need for a product that you can pop your mobile or laptop into and 12 hours later it is 100% free from bedbugs. I am specifically looking at electronics and items that do not have appropriate other solutions such as PackTite and washing/tumble drying.

    From a consumer's perspective -- and the only perspective I can give you -- (mine) . . . I would be extremely interested in any such product. I can only speculate that there would be a great number of people also interested in such a product as the forum receives many questions regarding how to treat electronics, laptops, mobile phones, etc . . . from both those that have been to a suspect hotel (or location) (Bedbugger Byanymeans would be one such recent example, I think) and those that have active infestations.

    bed-bugscouk - 2 hours ago  » 
    What do you feel is a fair retail price for a bag large enough for mobile, keys and wallet?
    What do you feel is a fair retail price for a bag large enough for a laptop?

    I don't think I can help you out with an actual price without knowing more about the product. . . . It's not a heat treatment product and it's not a synthetic insecticide product . . . so, maybe, a "treated" "green" bag that is proven to work??

    Again, I wouldn't know a price to cite . . . but I will say that my peace of mind regarding bed bugs is worth quite a bit to me. However, with that being said, I certainly don't mind the inventor and/or manufacturer of a product making a profit . . . as long as I don't feel like I'm being "taken." A fair price for a good product is all one can ask for!

    bed-bugscouk - 2 hours ago  » 
    Would you be interested in a product large enough for the box spring of your bed? and if so how much would you pay?

    Ha! I think I tried to pitch this idea to D. James two years ago! But that would have been a "heat treatment bag" type product . . . and I believe his response was something along the lines that they are working on all kinds of ideas. (Plus I think anything of that sort heat treatment wise might be too expensive for consumers, and might have to go the PCO target route??)

    But . . . back on point . . . I can't imagine anyone that is fighting a war against bed bugs NOT being interested in a product of that sort . . . if it worked. As to price . . . as with most things bed-bug-arsenal-related, a lot of people just can't afford the necessary tools . . . So a fair price with a fair profit for the inventor/company/manufacturer is all a consumer can hope for!

    Just my thoughts!

  3. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Thu May 8 2014 13:42:16
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    Hi,

    It's a non powered use once product which would be small enough to travel with or in a larger format could be one per bag of items. We are currently scaling up to garbage bag sizes but there is no reason why with time we can't get it even bigger than that.

    It might even be cheaper than washing items when you take into account the detergent and electrical costs.

    I suppose an easier question might be what is a reasonable cost to decontaminate a garbage bag or a laptop sized bag of items?

    We know we can do it cost effectively on a small scale and as long as it scales correctly then it should not be cost prohibitive in larger scales either.

    David

    I am happy to answer questions in public but will not reply to message sent directly or via my company / social media. I am here to help everyone and not just one case at a time.

    In accordance with the AUP and FTC I openly disclose my vested interest in Passive Monitors as the inventor and patent holder. Since 2009 they have become an integral part in how we resolve bed bug infestations. I also have a professional relationship with PackTite in that they distribute my product under their own branding. I do not however receive any financial remuneration for any comments I make about pro
  4. JustChecking

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Thu May 8 2014 16:57:27
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    David wrote,

    It's a non powered use once product which would be small enough to travel with or in a larger format could be one per bag of items.

    Are you saying:

    1) we do not need to use electricity,
    2) we can put only 1 thing into a bag each time, and
    3) we cannot reuse the bag?

    I can't give you a quote. I think the question is can people use something else to achieve similar result at certain cost.

    I've been spraying (one to several sprays) alcohol the inside of my Ziploc bags and 'rubbing' them to distribute the alcohol. Then, I put the 'contaminated' items in. My Ziploc bags can be reused this way.

    JustChecking, not a therapist / bug pro
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  5. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Thu May 8 2014 20:50:45
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    Hi,

    Today I can give you a product and a 5 inch by 8 inch ziplock that works in 12 hours. I can scale it to laptop size but am aiming for garbage bag size by the start of next week.

    The bags can be reused but the activator part is one time use.

    In all likelihood the most logical way to supply the product is in corresponding sizes to the project being attempted.

    Hope that explains.

    David

  6. theyareoutthere

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Thu May 8 2014 21:36:17
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    If it's one use, I'd probably do somewhere in the range of 20-50. I'm cheap so low end of the range unless I buy a Mac or something.

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  7. cilecto

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Fri May 9 2014 6:43:00
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    I'd be willing to pay 25-33% of the purchase price/replacement cost of the item that I'd be treating.

    Candidate items:
    - mattresses/box springs
    - musical instruments
    - electronics
    - photo albums/books/art

    ...but I'd want to see the independent efficacy data.

    Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night...
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  8. theyareoutthere

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Fri May 9 2014 9:52:50
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    I agree with Cilecto, except probably for a laptop. That could run $250 for a one time treatment, and it's supposed to be low risk. I have read of people with infested tvs, but it was usually the stand more than the tv. However, in advanced infestations they are everywhere.

    I'd also want independent tests, especially if going as high as Cilecto recommended.

  9. theyareoutthere

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Fri May 9 2014 9:55:28
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    I think it would be of real interest to people in small spaces.

  10. cilecto

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Fri May 9 2014 10:13:39
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    Sofas & upholstered chairs

    Now that you mentioned it, TAOT, I'd balk at $250 for a laptop, as basic Windows models are now about $300.

  11. theyareoutthere

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Fri May 9 2014 11:06:01
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    Yes, I've been looking at Apple products over $1,000 and figure it's not worth $250. Even an IPAD would be $150 or so if we used 25%. Since you carry those things all over the place and they are supposed to low risk, I just don't know that I'd put that into it.

    A sofa would be AWESOME.

  12. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Fri May 9 2014 11:07:16
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    Hi,

    Thanks for the feedback, please keep it coming and although I would love to be able to charge 25% - 33% its likely to be more in the region of 2% - 5% for high value assets.

    I am aiming to try and get something that is comparable to the cost of washing things.

    David

  13. theyareoutthere

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Fri May 9 2014 13:52:15
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    I really like that the bag can be reused. I packtite my ziplocs that I put dirty laundry in, which is overkill, but I want to reuse. I usually just reuse for dirty laundry so quit doing that.

  14. Emm

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Fri May 9 2014 18:58:37
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    Around $150 for a mattress sized bag...maybe slightly more. That's more expensive than most good mattress encasements although not outrageously so. I'm guessing that would be the product this competes with. Most consumers wont differentiate much between an encasement and this product I'm guessing-- they just want the bugs to stop biting them.

    Probably $50 for the smaller bag. More if it came with multiple replacement bug-killing parts.

    (All above dollars are USD)

  15. Emm

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Fri May 9 2014 19:10:34
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    Oh and garbage bag sized-- I calculated this back in the day when I had bed bugs. If you want to be competitive with washing the items, I'd think the cost would be around $5.50.

    A lawn and leaf trash bag cost me about $8.00 to decontaminate ($2.00 for 4 loads in the dryer @ 60 min each). I only washed the clothes under my bed and my bed linens, which added $6 to one bag. Those bags are about twice the size of typical garbage bags, so I think a normal garbage bag would have cost me $4, $7 if I also needed to wash the contents.

    I had about 9 lawn and leaf bags total. Ugh. Painful memories for both me, and everyone else in my building who wanted to use the dryers that day...

  16. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Mon May 12 2014 10:14:55
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    Hi Emm,

    Yes I had figured laundry was running about $5 a bag and this would be on target with that, however I am not sure people will know what to do with all the free time. Instead of going through all the hassle you can just bag it one day and its done in 24 hours.

    The first to be ready will be the laundry bags and something for laptops. After that I agree that mattress and box spring are the next targets with vehicles after that.

    This could actually be a massive game changer in the way that we work and its another non synthetic solution.

    David

  17. cupcake1993

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Mon May 12 2014 11:37:22
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    What do you feel is a fair retail price for a bag large enough for mobile, keys and wallet?

    I would be willing to pay about $40, maybe $50 at most. This is because such a bag would help me prevent bed bugs from getting into my things while I am out. However, the price I'm willing to pay also depends on the design of the bag. For example, if the bag is bright red and hard to carry around, I would be less willing to by it.

    What do you feel is a fair retail price for a bag large enough for a laptop?

    I'd probably pay around $35 for a bedbug free laptop bag.

    Would you be interested in a product large enough for the box spring of your bed? and if so how much would you pay?

    I would be interested. I'd probably pay around $25.

    All in all, I would pay a higher price for products that can help me prevent getting bed bugs when I'm outside.

  18. Daylight

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Mon May 12 2014 12:49:28
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    Hi David,

    Things that will help people control and eradicate bed bugs are very useful. If the primary objective is to provide a tool to help, I hope it would not be priced too high. I'd say I would prefer something that was inexpensive if it can only be used once (like 15-20 for a laptop bag--and I'm sure that sounds somewhat thrifty--but I would want to keep more than one on hand). I'd think 5-10 for a phone and keys maximum. For a mattress maybe 30--I would imagine the bigger object, the more expensive?

    Thanks for your ingenuity and consideration. They say necessity is the mother of invention, and I can definitely see a need for these bags.

    Keep those proactive thoughts flowing!!!

  19. Daylight

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Mon May 12 2014 14:44:09
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    The amounts I listed in the previous post were just guesstimates--what I think are fair at this time, depending on several factors.

    Thanks for sharing your ideas and letting us give you some feedback.

  20. Distressed in NJ

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Mon May 12 2014 15:29:47
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    I would be very interested in such a product.

  21. theyareoutthere

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Mon May 12 2014 15:31:36
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    I would have to say that what I'd be willing to pay would change if under infestation. It would be more. For a one time use bag, I could see using something small for electronics every now and then. It's kind of like the Bed Bug Blue now that I've used it 80+ times, I don't use it as often.

    I do see this being useful when there are several "legs' to my trip. It would be worth it to be up to $50.00 to use after the first leg, when I can't use a packtite. I do tend to keep clothes in ziplocs and put the suitcase in a garbage bag (the highest risk item other than my purse, which is in a ziploc when not out).

    This is a great idea.

  22. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Mon May 12 2014 16:40:02
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    This sounds like a really interesting product, David.

    One thing to consider is that for many consumers, the alternative would be Nuvan/DDVP strips in a sealed bag. The going rate for those is about $35 for 12 strips.

    People are going to compare the prices of these options, and weigh the faster efficacy of your product (vs. Nuvan strips in a bag with your item out of commission for however many weeks). If one method is both more reliable AND more efficient, that will surely win out -- unless it's much more expensive, in which case people may go the other way.

    I know the type of material being used is very different in terms of safety/toxicity to humans, but ideally you want to reach people who don't care about that aspect (and just want a good, fast, inexpensive solution) as well as those who would pay a premium for it.

    If this were to work on packed bags of laundry, I would guess a lot of people would prefer it to drying. Especially those without laundry facilities in the home or building.

    I started and run the site but am "not an expert."
  23. theyareoutthere

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Mon May 12 2014 18:49:13
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    Would it be safe for children's electronics that can't be run through a packtite but...a higher level of safety is required for toys.

  24. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Tue May 13 2014 14:54:58
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    Hi TAOT,

    Yes it would be safe for children's toys and even adult toys that crop in discussion once in a while.

    The trials continue to go well and we are already at the large garden refuse bag stage with 24 hours from start of process to finish even when filled with clothes. The electronics/laptop decon bag will work a little faster as its a smaller volume.

    We are still aiming to make it cost effective in comparison to washing but without all the time and hassle. The bench mark pricing we have seen for the chemical options that also take longer, is currently higher than we are looking at which is a good sign.

    Hopefully the cost and convenience benefits will ensure that it rapidly becomes something that consumers ask the PCO's to bring along when needed.

    I will see if I can get one of the other labs in the process to do a short video to illustrate how effective it is. I would shoot one myself but you want to see that is already being reproduced in other groups.

    David

  25. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Wed May 14 2014 0:15:25
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    We are still aiming to make it cost effective in comparison to washing but without all the time and hassle. The bench mark pricing we have seen for the chemical options that also take longer, is currently higher than we are looking at which is a good sign.

    Yes it is.

  26. theyareoutthere

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Wed May 14 2014 8:20:36
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    It sounds promising.

  27. mam417

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Wed May 14 2014 18:18:52
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    This product sounds really promising David! I wanted to ask about your comment that you intend to target vehicles in the future. I know it is said often here that cars aren't high risk for bb infestation, however, my work is very high risk for bb exposure, and I often have to transport individuals in my personal vehicle as part of my work (no option of avoiding this whatsoever). To have this available to treat my car should the worst happen would give me priceless peace of mind - even if I never used it! I would buy it and have it just in case of a bb emergency. As for price, I'm not really good at that sort of thing, but compared to fumigation/heat, which runs $800 in this area (!!) I would probably pay as high as $100 if that were necessary (although it would be very, very good if it were less than this.)

    Also, would it be possible for you to explain how such a thing would work with a vehicle? On the smaller scale I'm imagining a ziplock bag type thing, which wouldn't lend itself to something as large as a car, I don't think.

    Thanks for working on this, and please keep us updated!

  28. theyareoutthere

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Wed May 14 2014 19:53:33
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    I'd also be very interested in the car option given the more expensive alternative. It's weird, I might use it with no proof every now and then if the price were under $20. But, I"d only pay $100 if there were a confirmed infestation in my home and I was truly worried about the car.

  29. Sleepless1

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    Thu Jun 26 2014 13:07:22
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    For what you are describing $5 a bag for a kitchen trash bag size, with a discount for purchasing a pack of 25 would be amazing.

    I am going through a bed bug problem now and drying everything is extremely difficult. I am disabled so my ability to accomplish such a large task is significantly hindered.

    Ideally the bags would be able to be zip closed or sealed so that it was absolutely positively sealed.
    They also should be clear.
    A white box for easy marking would be a plus, just so it could be dated.
    If it came with a sharpy in the multipack, that would be helpful as well, so the bags could be dated.
    Some people would pay extra to upgrade the bags to have a vacuum seal, like a space bag. This type of upgrade would be really helpful in emptying closets in small apartments so that they can be inspected and sprayed.

    I realize that some have given much higher prices, but I think that the market for such an item that was, as you suggested, priced about the same as a load of laundry, would sell widely and could be marketed for travelers as well to use for dirty clothing, or for packing on the return trip as a precaution.

    I just had a friend leave on a college trip overseas, and for the poor college student $5 a bag or a pack that they could split up would be something that they would be more likely to spring for than just leave it to chance. The more expensive an item is the less likely travelers would work it into the budget and just chance it.. especially if they have not had the agony of going through this nightmare.

    If you do come out with this product, or it is available, I would appreciate a PM.

    I would also like to know if the item is ok for long term storage, as if I am storing winter blankets, can I just seal them and shelve them or is there an issue with them being sealed for a long period of time with the effective chemical being active?

    Also, since the bags are reusable, is there a way to tell when the chemical is no longer present or effective? I think this is helpful not just for the first use but also to deter people from trying to get several uses out of an item to stretch the life of it and it ending up not being effective... or in the event somehow bags became ineffective before use.. a piece of mind kind of thing for those of us over anxious and sleep deprived ones worried that something moved in there.

    Thanks!

  30. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Thu Jun 26 2014 13:38:31
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    Hi,

    The updated comments has nudged me to give you an update.

    The technical specifications have now been established and the protocol doe unfortunatly need to be longer than the initial 24 hours (which may still be feasible with laptops and small appliances but the good news is that an assorted garden refuse bag mixed with clothes and appliances is 100% done in just 5 days.

    There is no residual odour from the product and because of the optimisation path we took you literally don't even need to touch the product which is known to be pretty much inert to humans and the environment.

    The regulatory process means this will be able in the US before it hits the UK and EU but that could be as soon as a few months away at this stage. We have replicate data on all life stages of bedbugs and eggs and have conducted extensive health and safety testing.

    I had already suggested to my development partners the need for labels so that each "unit" of product could be provided with a label to place on the outside of the bag. As we have proven that spinning and knotting the bag is all that is needed to secure the items so long as you are careful reopening the bags they are safe to be reused. Because of the unique action of this product once the bag has been open for a few minutes there is no residual treatment properties in the bag.

    I am sorry that we don't have prices at this stage but I can confirm that we are hopefully on target to get this cost neutral when you look at the costs and time of washing / drying.

    It is envisaged that for those who follow a prep "protocol" based approach to bedbugs will find this a very easy way to ensure that bags can be opened after treatment without any risk of failure.

    Hope that helps.

    David

  31. FreakingFreaked

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    Thu Jun 26 2014 18:12:19
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    This sounds wonderful, and like an improvement to the process people go through with Nuvan strips.

  32. Beingbitten77

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    Mon Nov 3 2014 18:58:03
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    Could you fit a vacuum in it? I have been obsessing over my vacuum. I am not sure the cost it takes to make the product and what it is but a Large bag that can be used over and over (what is the life of the bag?) Maybe $50 usd. I don't know much details however. What would you recommend for a vehicle? I have already went and gotten is vacuumed and Steam cleaned at a shop. Can you use cimexa in a vehicle? Hope I helped a little

    bed-bugscouk - 5 months ago  » 
    Hi,
    It's a non powered use once product which would be small enough to travel with or in a larger format could be one per bag of items. We are currently scaling up to garbage bag sizes but there is no reason why with time we can't get it even bigger than that.
    It might even be cheaper than washing items when you take into account the detergent and electrical costs.
    I suppose an easier question might be what is a reasonable cost to decontaminate a garbage bag or a laptop sized bag of items?
    We know we can do it cost effectively on a small scale and as long as it scales correctly then it should not be cost prohibitive in larger scales either.
    David

  33. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Mon Nov 3 2014 19:06:35
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    Hi,

    Yes you could put a vacuum cleaner in the bag it works in large bags.

    We need more time to scale up to vehicles and want to get 50 state coverage before vehicles hit the market. The FAQ info is the best advice until it's updated in the future.

    We do not have Cimexa in the UK so I have no data in which to recommend it on. I usually find steam alone suffices for vehicles but you need to do it yourself to ensure attention to detail because services unless specialist to bedbugs may not be thorough enough.

    Hope that helps.

    David

  34. scared_and_uncertain

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Sat Mar 28 2015 17:00:03
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    I'd be INCREDIBLY interested! The price I'd be willing to pay varies by design. Also, I have to live off a budget. This latter factor may have influence that the product producer would view negatively, because at most, I would be willing to pay $75 (again varying by design, etc...).

  35. Richard56

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Sat Mar 28 2015 17:12:56
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    SAU: I'd be INCREDIBLY interested!
    ----------------------------
    Two products already exist: Both work through vapor action. The DDVP strips use a chemical insecticide and Cirkil's "Rag in the Bag" use botanically derived ingredients. Use the "search" bar on upper right for more information on both.

    RIchard

  36. Richard56

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Sat Mar 28 2015 17:24:36
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    I should probably add, before someone else does, that the active ingredient in "rag in the bag" has a strong odor. And while I don't see this as much of an issue with non-porous surfaces like found on electronics, especially since they will be bagged and later aired out, you could do a test run for under ten dollars by purchasing a small bottle of "Proof" which is the consumer version of Cirkil), and then test it on an old phone or other electronics.

    Richard

  37. ItsJustABug

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Mon Mar 30 2015 8:18:20
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    If people paid $150-$180 for a encasement for the box springs, mattress & pillows.
    Then you'd be unsure the bed is clear so it has to stay on for 2 yrs not to release any trapped bugs.
    You'd have 2yrs to worry about:
    That you can't wash it with out fear of re- infestation.
    That the encasement tears or rips.
    That the zipper stays secure.
    That it has bedbugs living dormant inside it, giving way to sleepless nights.
    The how to clean exterior dust build & care of vacuuming not to tear it while cleaning.
    Now if I had a product that would insure the total kill of bugs before encasement's of the bed,
    well I would probably pay $100 or so for that peace of mind & could un-bag it to clean it later after an all clear on the house.
    It would be worth it to be able to clean encasement's as they are intended to be washed, an 2 years of stress free time "priceless"

  38. ItsJustABug

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Mon Mar 30 2015 8:26:56
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    Might I add the bed & sofa are the two places we spend the most time on at home. So to have the peace of mind to really be able to relax .
    Yes that would be priceless to resolve the uncertainty of not knowing the furniture is all clear at a point far shorter then 18 months.
    Not to mention the sofa encasement's are ugly and unreliable.
    I hope your thinking big with this new product David ,my sofa is waiting

  39. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Mon Mar 30 2015 8:58:02
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    HI ItsJustABug,

    We are already ahead of your thinking. Once we have the 100% green, 100% effective and cost effective solution for bags we are looking at beds and mattresses next. I envisage being able to take a bed encased "wiffle bagged" or not and apply the product over the top. Then after 5+ days you can remove the product and/or encostments safe in the knowledge that the job has now been done correctly.

    Oddly enough we should be able to do this cheaper than the cost of encasing in the first place so sadly the benefits of those bags will be taking a knock again. I suspect the cost will be more akin to that which you might pay to get someone to help you remove the bed and hopefully PCO's will see the logic in offering it as service although I would not advise holding your breath while we wait for that "oil tanker" to turn.

    @Richard56 - while all input it appreciated it would be helpful to keep it on topic. In this case the thread is on market research and consumer input rather than a chance to promote the "party line" from the industry, its forward thinking more than anything.

    David

  40. Richard56

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Mon Mar 30 2015 9:15:16
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    Bedbugscouk:while all input it appreciated it would be helpful to keep it on topic. In this case the thread is on market research and consumer input rather than a chance to promote the "party line" from the industry, its forward thinking more than anything.
    -------------------
    I am not in the industry and don't promote any industry "party line". You are the one promoting something, just re-read your last post. I was simply trying to help "scrared and uncertain" who seemed interested in the concept, which happens to be already available in at least two current products for as little as around $3 a treated garbage bag.

    So, getting back to "topic', should your product come in at around that price, prove 100% effective against bugs and all stages, and have independent research, than I think you will have a competitive product and wish you good luck.

    Just as a side note, don't you think in the spirit of fair disclosure (or perhaps even forum rules) , you should have disclosed you were working on such a product when making negative comments recently on both 'rag in the bag' and ddvp strips, which are quite arguably competing products?

    Richard

  41. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Mon Mar 30 2015 9:22:46
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    Hi Richard,

    Its actually the downside of the current products that has stimulated the need to develop something better, you know, necessity is the mother of invention.

    As for the testing, yes it has been validated by third parties and academics and what has shocked everyone is the ability of the product to cause the developing bedbug to dissociated at a cellular level without the egg hatching in just 24 hours.

    [accusation against another forum member deleted]

    David

  42. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Mon Mar 30 2015 11:58:18
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    An unsupported accusation from David against another forum user was deleted as were subsequent posts discussing this.

    David, just a reminder about the forum rules-- civil behavior means you can't accuse others of wrongdoing without providing evidence.

  43. AbsolutelyFreaking

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Mon Mar 30 2015 12:17:11
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    Richard56 -  » 
    So, getting back to "topic', should your product come in at around that price, prove 100% effective against bugs and all stages, and have independent research, than I think you will have a competitive product and wish you good luck.

    So now I'm curious . . . which of the two products that you discuss do you believe is 100% effective against bed bugs at all stages?

    On one hand there is Dini Miller saying ddvp strips are not all that effective and on the other hand you have P Bello saying that cirkil and Dini Miller's research is, ummmm, not all that good.

    At least that's my take on reading the threads discussing them?????

    (And this is probably OFF TOPIC and needs to be deleted or removed from this thread and start a new one???)

  44. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Mon Mar 30 2015 12:33:42
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    AbsolutelyFreaking - 13 minutes ago  » 

    (And this is probably OFF TOPIC and needs to be deleted or removed from this thread and start a new one???)

    Richard was referencing other products in context of this discussion.
    You're referencing Richard's questions to David.
    At this point, I can see how it can all be considered on topic, though if anyone feels they're moving into a wider discussion of other products, it would be good to start in a new thread and link to it from this one. (Note that "moving" threads doesn't always work right with the current software, so it's best not to rely on this if you know you need a new thread.)

  45. Richard56

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Mon Mar 30 2015 15:03:39
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    AF: So now I'm curious . . . which of the two products that you discuss do you believe is 100% effective against bed bugs at all stages?

    On one hand there is Dini Miller saying ddvp strips are not all that effective and on the other hand you have P Bello saying that cirkil and Dini Miller's research is, ummmm, not all that good.
    ---------------------
    Right now we appear to have a well designed independent study, by a reputable researcher that shows 100% kill of bugs and all phases, including eggs, involving very little time and at a very low price. And while the active ingredient is not new, the application -- rag-in-a-bag- is relatively new to market and so probably less field data. So, personally, at this point in time, I'd go with "rag-in-the-bag" unless other studies were brought to my attention that either contradicted this study or offered similar efficacy for another product, say for example, DDVP strips

    And btw the Dini Miller study did not say DDVP strips didn't work as well for bagged items, DDVP just wasn't tested. What was tested was a very different application -- a loaded closet -- so you really can't compare the two. Hopefully, there will be more studies, with more products, as a low low labor, low cost treatment of belongings can be a major help in an integrated bed bug eradication approach. And hopefully, those studies will also try bigger objects, such as a mattress, or a couch, but for now, the studies we have are what we have.

    Richard

  46. ItsJustABug

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    Mon Mar 30 2015 17:29:39
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    On one hand there is Dini Miller saying ddvp strips are not all that effective and on the other hand you have P Bello saying that cirkil and Dini Miller's research is, ummmm, not all that good.

    So the consumers is left bewildered without good testing & research data to back the claims of these products. If the product is rushed to market without the extensive research & testing it is the consumers who ultimately pays price.

    And while the active ingredient is not new, the application -- rag-in-a-bag- is relatively new to market and so probably less field data. So, personally, at this point in time, I'd go with "rag-in-the-bag" unless other studies were brought to my attention that either contradicted this study or offered similar efficacy for another product, say for example, DDVP strips

    And btw the Dini Miller study did not say DDVP strips didn't work as well for bagged items, DDVP just wasn't tested. What was tested was a very different application -- a loaded closet -- so you really can't compare the two.

    My point again: If the product is rushed to market without the extensive research & testing it is the consumers who ultimately pays price.

    Hopefully, there will be more studies, with more products, as a low low labor, low cost treatment of belongings can be a major help in an integrated bed bug eradication approach. And hopefully, those studies will also try bigger objects, such as a mattress, or a couch, but for now, the studies we have are what we have.

    Third time same point . I believe the products need to be tested more in the field after lab testing, to honestly says if is effective ,it can't hinge on the consumer failure factor.

    More then the labor & cost I'm concerned with the safeness of DIY bag treatment of large items like my sofa.
    I didn't use the DDVP strips due to the bagging, air tight worry & exposure factor while I remain in the place of treatment .because of unfamiliarity with all involved to do it right my self. So a better bagging system made just for this treatment would be a awesome addition. It can be scary for some one who knows little to start with about these products. Sorry if I got off topic ,I think it fits in there tho.
    What would I pay for a product proven effective against bed bugs at all stages ,safe to use, every thing needed for application of DIY & peace of mind its designed for Bedbugs with Dummy's , the price would be my last consideration.

  47. FayeState

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Mon Jan 9 2017 4:12:33
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    David,
    You discussed a bag that items could be put into to decontaminate. Is it available yet?
    Thanks.

  48. BigDummy

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Mon Jan 9 2017 11:49:00
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    It's not available yet; can't wait to try some out myself.

  49. FayeState

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Mon Jan 9 2017 14:47:04
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    Any idea when it might be available?

  50. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Tue Jan 10 2017 5:54:15
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    FayeState - 15 hours ago  » 
    Any idea when it might be available?

    As stated previously we are looking at working on a kickstarter to get this into peoples hands sooner. I am sure you will see that when its put together and if it reaches its goal we would be able to ship product to supporters about 60 days later.

    While I appreciate this is a frustrating situation for some people short of someone dropping $60,000 into the project there is no quick solution, otherwise we would have done it.

    David


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