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Lifespan of Bedbugs (controversy)

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  1. NeverSurrender

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Mon Dec 12 2011 17:11:54
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    I've been doing non stop research in an attempt to "know the enemy" as best as possible. I've read a hundred times that to be sure they're dead you can pack away your belongings and leave them for eighteen months (some say more). Since it's been written so many times it seems to be the accepted reality. Today I read that the typical lifespan of a BB is typically about a year. I can't remember exactly where I read this but it was in a research paper by entomologists. I am aware that other papers state different conclusions. This is the problem with this entire war. How do you combat the enemy if we still don't really know them! There are still those who are convinced they can drop from the ceiling to get you while others will swear this is impossible. And these are the experts. In the last months I've trapped, bagged and individually labeled about thirty BBs. I know this sounds crazy and maybe it is. I didn't set out to do this but I was keeping them to show the PCO. Some died after a short time and others would still bite me if they could. FRUSTRATION!

  2. jrbtnyc

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Mon Dec 12 2011 20:14:55
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    Concerning lifespan of unfed bed bugs, temperature is very important. See...

    http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/wait-bedbugs-can-live-longer-than-18-months-now

    ...and more generally...

    http://bedbugger.com/forum/tags/lifespan .

    But some, such as myself based on non-expert observation of a hundred or so bed bugs about a year ago, believe in practicality the picture is somewhat more encouraging than "18 months", that the great majority of bb's live only 2-6 months without feeding, at normal room temperatures anyway:

    http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/will-they-all-be-dead-in-18-months#post-119065 .

  3. jrbtnyc

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Mon Dec 12 2011 20:42:11
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    As to bed bugs dropping from the ceiling, see...

    http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/do-bbs-drop-from-the-ceiling#post-127127

    ...wherein I have proposed that we experiment with placing non-sticky single-sided smooth clear generic tape on the outer edges of ceilings (on the ceilings themselves, not at the top of the adjacent walls) to keep bed bugs from being able to crawl onto the ceilings because they fall off due to gravity being unable to get a grip. Also required would be to place duct tape over any holes in the ceilings and over any apertures in light fixtures etc. so bugs can't come out of those places to drop down. I believe this tape concept will really work and will enable us once and for all to end worries about bb's dropping down on people from ceilings. However, I don't have access to any bb's right now so I do need one or more experts who maintain ongoing bb colonies, and/or have regular access to bb's through their pest control work, to let me know they're willing to try this with an open mind and I'll give them (if they're in NYC) or send them an experimental setup so all they have to do is put bugs in and we'll see whether indeed, the bugs can't negotiate a smooth non-sticky tape surface on a ceiling. If that proves to be the case, it means we'll have a definitive tool to defeat the bugs for all time in this significant aspect.

  4. P Bello

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Mon Dec 12 2011 21:00:44
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    What's the deal with this?

  5. jrbtnyc

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Mon Dec 12 2011 21:40:48
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    P Bello - 40 minutes ago  » 
    What's the deal with this?

    Paul B., as a practicing pest control professional would you be willing to try this experiment to test whether or not bed bugs can crawl along a ceiling that has cheap generic non-sticky single-sided smooth clear tape on it – because they can't get a grip and fall off due to gravity.

    The setup I'll provide is similar to what's shown in the following YouTube piece (brazen pirated music track so I suggest you turn off the sound)...

    [+] Embed the videoGet the Video Plugin

    ...except that it will use clear non-sticky tape as its "ceiling" instead of the smooth plastic surface. It will be a jar with a rough wooden post inside which bed bugs can easily climb, and at the top of the wooden post will be a "ceiling" with the smooth tape on it. All I'll be asking you to do is to throw, say, a couple of hundred bed bugs of all stages into the jar and see if any, having climbed to the top of the post which will be their instinct to do when hungry, can then crawl along the underside of the smooth tape "ceiling".

    May I send as a parcel post package to your Atlanta address. There will be nothing whatsoever for you to assemble – just open the jar and throw in the bed bugs.

    (Perhaps you would like to send me a private message – click on "PM This User" at the left of this post – and we can discuss further.)

    (Be sure to review that earlier discussion at...

    http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/do-bbs-drop-from-the-ceiling#post-127127 .)

  6. P Bello

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Tue Dec 13 2011 1:32:22
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    If the tape is slick enough it may work as you suggest however, there are some practical based questions that come to mind:

    > Would customers actually allow PMPs to place tape on their ceilings or walls? ( I know that if you propose any such thing to our painted walls Mary Ann, a Brooklyn born Sicilian, would kick your ass, maybe worse.

    > If we do a decent job killing the bed bugs, which is our primary goal, what utility does this application add?

    > Under what circumstances do you see this being used and of value to a consumer?

    Please advise, my bed bugs are always looking for some fun time as the jars get boring.

    paul b.

  7. theyareoutthere

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Tue Dec 13 2011 1:45:01
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    Paul,

    You transplanted a Brooklynite to Atlanta? That's cruel...just cruel. (I love Atlanta as I'm sure you've grown to).

    I'm a newbie so we can wait for Jrbtnyc wakes up, but I think there's been some debate about what to do about walls since bedbugs sometimes seem to end up on the walls and ceilings after pesticide application (maybe you can discuss this)...or just randomly. There seem to be two schools of thought.

    1) protect the ceiling to decrease the dive bombing activity I think people keep finding them on the walls and ceilings and it worries them.
    2) they will eventually cross pesticides and die since in order to feed again they have to climb up the wall through where the pesticides were sprayed.

    I'm not 100% sure.

    They
    Are
    Out
    There
    = TAOT
  8. NeverSurrender

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Tue Dec 13 2011 1:51:54
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    Thanks everyone for your input. Incidentally, I would put tape up in a second.

  9. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Tue Dec 13 2011 6:52:04
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    HI,

    Part of the reason why there is no definitive they last XX months is that we are dealing with a biological creature and biology is by definition naturally variable.

    For example carrots growing in a field will all be effectively treated the same, similar light, similar water and similar supplied nutrients and yet the diversity in size and yield is apparent, well it is until someone sorts and sifts and send only the socially acceptable ones to the food store.

    The reality with giving a longer time line than may be needed is to ensure those who don't just sit there are read, hey his bedbugs in a bag died after 2 weeks so mine should. This avoids someone opening up a sealed infestation and re-releasing it before it is resolved.

    As well as being temperature related you also have to look at the affects of the treatments if any, the effects of humidity and also the presence of any parasites of bedbugs.

    Like many things in life it does not fall down to a simple clear rule of X or Y.

    Biology is the business of survival, if they can they will or could and that's sometimes as good as we can give.

    David Cain
    Bed Bugs Limited

    I am happy to answer questions in public but will not reply to message sent directly or via my company / social media. I am here to help everyone and not just one case at a time.

    In accordance with the AUP and FTC I openly disclose my vested interest in Passive Monitors as the inventor and patent holder. Since 2009 they have become an integral part in how we resolve bed bug infestations. I also have a professional relationship with PackTite in that they distribute my product under their own branding. I do not however receive any financial remuneration for any comments I make about pro
  10. jrbtnyc

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Tue Dec 13 2011 12:48:31
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    P Bello - 11 hours ago  » 
    If the tape is slick enough it may work as you suggest however, there are some practical based questions that come to mind:
    > Would customers actually allow PMPs to place tape on their ceilings or walls? ( I know that if you propose any such thing to our painted walls Mary Ann, a Brooklyn born Sicilian, would kick your ass, maybe worse.)
    > If we do a decent job killing the bed bugs, which is our primary goal, what utility does this application add?
    > Under what circumstances do you see this being used and of value to a consumer?
    Please advise, my bed bugs are always looking for some fun time as the jars get boring.
    paul b.

    Hi Paul B.,

    Wouldn't anyone want to have such a cheap, easy-to-apply, non-poisonous way to keep bed bugs from dropping from the ceiling if it's proven to be reliable? Especially if such technique only ever needs to be deployed one time and will remain effective indefinitely in case of any new bed bug arrivals in the future? It can't possibly detract from any other control methods, can it? Is there any possible downside to it?

    Particularly for people who decide to stringently isolate their bed so they can be assured of getting a good night's sleep every night...never any bites at night or sleep-disrupting fear of bites at night...so they can have normal energy to fight bb's during the daytime and also to go to their jobs and everything else. For people in this category, very often that last element they can't resolve is, oh but the bugs will drop down from the ceiling. I.e. if we can solve this ceiling aspect FOR ALL TIME won't we have made a breakthrough, actually a major breakthrough?

    Note that for desperate people the ceiling tape, if it works, will stop bed bugs dropping down IMMEDIATELY whereas "spraying" to kill bed bugs may require a few days, or even weeks, to take effect.

    Anyway remember plenty of folks can't, or won't, bring in an exterminator to "spray" because:

    (1) they can't afford it

    (2) the landlord gets to choose any exterminator and they know the landlord will pick an incompetent one that's cheap or which his cousin owns

    (3) they have expectant mothers or infants or sensitive pets in the family and really, really don't want chemical poisons around their living quarters

    (4) they know chemical treatments may fail anyway because bed bugs are becoming ever more resistant to pesticides, see...

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703951704576092302399464190.html

    ...bearing in mind the Rupert Murdoch-owned Wall Street Journal is not exactly a hotbed of hippy tree-huggers.

    So for such people, any non-chemical weapon they can muster against bb's is all to the good, isn't it?

    If Mary Ann, a Brooklyn-born Sicilian, doesn't like the idea of tape on her painted walls, may we check with her again after pesticide-proof bed bugs drop down on her overnight and now she has half a dozen big red itchy welts this morning...on her forehead?

    (Anyway, again, please note the tape will go on the outer edge of the *ceiling* not on any part of the walls.)

    Please help towards developing this new ultra-low-tech tool by doing the experiment I'm proposing.

    Paul and other experts, please tell me addresses to which I may send, by parcel post, the experimental setup as described above at:

    http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/lifespan-of-bedbugs-controversy#post-127949 .

  11. NeverSurrender

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Tue Dec 13 2011 13:05:21
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    jrbtnyc,

    It's very interesting what your doing. I hope you have complete success. To add just a little to the discussion. I have a number of BBs currently alive in individual small ziplock bags. Inside each bag is an index card of where, when and what time each was caught. I did this to show to the PCO. I noticed that most won't leave the index card because it's obvious that can't really walk on the ziplock plastic very well. I think this also shows that with the right surface you probably can really isolate your bed. I know there will be those that may consider that counterproductive since the BBs will probably leave to find another meal making it harder to deal with the overall problem. But for some people this may just be the answer to sleepless nights. After a consistent time of real rest some may be better equipped to deal with the problem.

  12. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Tue Dec 13 2011 14:52:38
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    Hi,

    Part of the reason why non of us will support the "tape agenda" is that its not a viable solution and does not add top the treatment process.

    If it is so essential that you avoid bites that you are willing to prolong the treatment process then I can only suggest you have a look at the tents that Paul has developed. Its about as far as you will get most of us to support this engineering lead concept that fails to take into account the biology and behaviour of bedbugs.

    David

  13. P Bello

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Tue Dec 13 2011 23:06:04
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    OK, a few comments in reply:

    > If you google my name & bed bugs you'll find my contact info easily.
    > While I don't want to say that the tape idea ia not a good one or completely without merit, as David points out, we may be focusing on the wrong area. (Think of it as placing your soccer goalie at the mid-field side line rather than in front of the goal.)
    > While it is possible that BBs may climb to the ceiling and "let go" to drop on sleeping hosts, in my experience this activity is limited to only those BBs who have attened & completed their BB comando training. What I'm saying is that while this behavior may occur, in my opinion it is likely to be a rare event given the big picture.
    > Rather than list a bunch of practical challenges that your concept faces, if may be more productive to propose some comments & options:
    a. Yes, there may be some situations where the tape would be accepted however, high end homes, hotels and rental units would not allow the tape to be installed.
    b. The tape would have to have the ability to be removed without maring a surface to which it is adheared.
    c. What if this tape were installed on furniture legs to prevent BBs from climing up? Would this be possible?

    Please consider that at the end of the day our primary purpose is to elininate BBs effectively through our BB control work. Some of us are very successful at doing so which counterindicates the use of such tape on the ceiling.

    So, while both David and I are not overwhelmed by the ceiling idea, there may be other roles your slick tape or tapeslick (now if you market tapeslick and sell a slug of it whilst using this name, you need to send me ten bucks for the name ! ) that may provide utility in the BB war.

    thanks, paul b.


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