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Laundry Additive - Anyone Tested Any?

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  1. AbsolutelyFreaking

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Mon Oct 8 2012 8:18:43
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    Has anyone tested any laundry additives that will kill bed bugs in cold or warm water without placing the items in the dryer? I found "Bed Bug 911 Natural Bed Bug Laundry Treatment" on the USBB site. Does anyone know if it actually works?

  2. preventionbeforeattack

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Tue Feb 4 2014 15:27:33
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    Hi there, curious if you found out anything more about the Bed Bug 911 Laundry Treatment? I'm considering how it would work out to use regularly as a preventative measure but can't find any reviews on the product. Would be great to hear from anyone who's tried it!

  3. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Tue Feb 4 2014 15:37:52
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    Hi,

    It's a pointless product.

    Hot washing and extended tumbling will suffice and frankly a laundry additive would be the last suggestion on a long list of better preventative measures.

    Hope that helps.

    David Cain
    Bed Bugs Limited

    I am happy to answer questions in public but will not reply to message sent directly or via my company / social media. I am here to help everyone and not just one case at a time.

    In accordance with the AUP and FTC I openly disclose my vested interest in Passive Monitors as the inventor and patent holder. Since 2009 they have become an integral part in how we resolve bed bug infestations. I also have a professional relationship with PackTite in that they distribute my product under their own branding. I do not however receive any financial remuneration for any comments I make about pro
  4. preventionbeforeattack

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Tue Feb 4 2014 15:49:35
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    Hi David, thanks for the response. So you've tried the product?? I would like to get feedback from someone with experience trying out the product. I'd rather not fry out my clothes on extended exposure to high heat & also for things like wool & down & thick comforters that cannot be fully dried in the the dryer to sufficient heat levels. Thanks again for anyone with feedback!

  5. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Tue Feb 4 2014 16:02:34
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    Hi,

    It's not a product I even feel the need to test as it is pointless, truly pointless.

    There are lots of preventative steps you can take based on education and on monitoring which will as value in a preventative fashion.

    The risk of bedbugs coming into your home in clothes and remaining on them till they at washed is extremely low. In fact it's so low I have not felt it a priority step to date.

    Have a look at the useful tools section and the FAQ and take comfort from the fact that if they were thought to be I value they would be integrated already and supported with popular opinion.

    Hope that explains.

    David

  6. AbsolutelyFreaking

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Tue Feb 4 2014 16:38:20
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    Hi PBA,

    I never tried the product as every time a laundry additive is mentioned on the site, multiple pros say they don’t work.

    bed-bugscouk - 32 minutes ago  » 
    . . . Hot washing and extended tumbling will suffice . . .

    But, David, being a guy you just don’t understand [she types in a pouty tone] . . . there are just some “delicates” that can’t be washed in hot and that need to be air dried . . . to maintain their, ummm, “sexiness” (and some are quite expensive)! So that alleviates the hot wash and hot dry as an option.

    bed-bugscouk - 11 minutes ago  » 
    . . . There are lots of preventative steps you can take based on education and on monitoring which will as value in a preventative fashion.
    The risk of bedbugs coming into your home in clothes and remaining on them till they at washed is extremely low. In fact it's so low I have not felt it a priority step to date.

    Ok, that’s makes sense, of course.

    But let’s address the “preventative” issue first . . . say you’ve been to a “suspect” location and come home. Personally I always strip and throw everything in the dryer or PackTite (except bra and panties). Some people don’t want to do that because they say it can “set” stains/dirt. I bag bra and panties until they can be washed. Therefore, I’ve immediately (hopefully) killed any potential bed bugs on my clothes and shoes, leaving my “delicates.” I just don’t want to wash my expensive bras in hot water and dry them in a dryer . . . it really ruins them. Therefore, to a layperson (me) it would be helpful (think peace of mind) if there really were a laundry additive out there that would kill bed bugs in cold water as some items just need to be washed in cold and air dried. That’s just where I’m coming from as a bed bug anxious consumer.

    Now, as an expert/professional, I understand you say it’s not necessary . . .

    bed-bugscouk - 11 minutes ago  » 
    The risk of bedbugs coming into your home in clothes and remaining on them till they at washed is extremely low. In fact it's so low I have not felt it a priority step to date.

    But what about clothes that have been “bagged” until they are washed?! (My delicates and think apartment dwellers that don’t have washer/dryers in their home.)

    I <3 you . . . so please don’t yell at me. I’m just saying from a consumer’s perspective it would be cool if someone would invent one that really kills bed bugs in cold water . . . but from your perspective, I understand you are saying there isn’t one.

  7. preventionbeforeattack

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Tue Feb 4 2014 17:00:24
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    Thanks again for taking the time to respond.

    I'd still be interested to hear feedback from someone who's used this product.

    I would surely not use it as a first line of defense. Living in in Manhattan's very small, tightly packed spaces in a very old apartment building, using public laundry facilities, I am looking to take every precaution to keep my home free of the little monsters.

  8. Butterfly1972

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Tue Feb 4 2014 18:28:14
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    But, David, being a guy you just don’t understand [she types in a pouty tone] . . . there are just some “delicates” that can’t be washed in hot and that need to be air dried . . . to maintain their, ummm, “sexiness” (and some are quite expensive)! So that alleviates the hot wash and hot dry as an option.

    Abs,

    You hit the nail on the head!! Guys won't "get" this, but seriously, when you pay $75 for a pretty, lacy, bedazzled bra and another $25 for the matching panties (I really should just take out stock in Victoria Secrets.....), you don't want to put those things in a hot wash, a hot dryer, or a PackTite. I can see, and completely appreciate, the reasoning behind a laundry additive that would be effective on a cold, hand wash setting.

    Now, if the guys had to pay more than $10 for a pack of 10 undies, maybe we would have our laundry additive by now......

  9. ITortureBugs4Revenge

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Tue Feb 4 2014 20:14:49
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    I'm not an expert but i have heard many times that soapy water whether it be hot, warm or cold will kill insects by drowning them, as the soap breaks down the tension on the water's surface and insects which normally float will then sink and drown. I would get an experts view on that before trying it though, just to be safe.

    .....I am NOT an expert.....

    Any advice i give here is based solely on my own personal experiences in dealing with bedbugs & other household vermin.
  10. cilecto

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Tue Feb 4 2014 22:19:01
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    Additives are typically additional detergent or enzymes. They may kill bed bugs (detergent will do that if strong enough), but likely not eggs. If an item can't be hot washed & dried, it should be cleaned and dried in the most appropriate way, then placed dry in a warm 125-130F dryer for 20-30 minutes or until the item is thoroughly heated. That's warm enough to kill BB and eggs, but not to damage the item. Some items can be visually inspected to be sure they're bug-free. And remember, not all experts believe you need to launder everything. Do this only if told to.

    Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night...
    - Psalms 91:5-7

    (Not an pro)
  11. AbsolutelyFreaking

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Wed Feb 5 2014 10:49:54
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    Butterfly1972 - 15 hours ago  » 
    . . . Now, if the guys had to pay more than $10 for a pack of 10 undies, maybe we would have our laundry additive by now......

    LOL, funny! . . . Funny, but true!

    ITortureBugs4Revenge - 14 hours ago  » 
    I'm not an expert but i have heard many times that soapy water whether it be hot, warm or cold will kill insects by drowning them, as the soap breaks down the tension on the water's surface and insects which normally float will then sink and drown. I would get an experts view on that before trying it though, just to be safe.

    I *thought* I had read that that is not necessarily true of bed bugs??? Of course cilecto's comments below relate to this and make sense. Are head lice an insect?? Because I have read in the past that head lice can really hold their breath for a long time . . . I know we're talking bed bugs here, but I thought bed bugs were sort of like head lice in that area . . . Therefore, a laundry enzyme additive to break down their exoskeleton and kill them in cold or warm water would be cool!

    cilecto - 12 hours ago  » 
    Additives are typically additional detergent or enzymes. They may kill bed bugs (detergent will do that if strong enough), but likely not eggs. If an item can't be hot washed & dried, it should be cleaned and dried in the most appropriate way, then placed dry in a warm 125-130F dryer for 20-30 minutes or until the item is thoroughly heated. That's warm enough to kill BB and eggs, but not to damage the item. Some items can be visually inspected to be sure they're bug-free. And remember, not all experts believe you need to launder everything. Do this only if told to.

    Thanks cilecto! All that makes sense! My problem is when items are "air drying" what if eggs hatch?! So, when I'm being really panicked . . . I do throw the bras in the dryer (while dry) and then wash and air dry. But, again, to me it would be nice not to have to put them through the dryer at all and just have something to kill them in a cold wash. Just another thing to add to my wish list. Until something that really works in cold water for bugs and eggs is invented. . . we just have to do what we have to do (in my case putting dry bras in the dryer or PackTite)

  12. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Wed Feb 5 2014 11:39:57
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    Hi,

    Now before we get too far into this one my smalls tend to cost more than $10 for a 10 pack, while the visible parts of my wardrobe remain a fixed constant (the Einstein simplification of decisions principle) the items which are closer to my skin tend to be selected for being comfortable and quality. I would not go as far as to say "why would you present a Tiffany bracelet in anything other than a pale blue bag" but you get my drift.

    As Ab's has outlined the stripe at door and decon option is preventative. Taking on board what you say about your smalls and not wanting to bake in stains there is another option. Now before I outline it I need to say that the probability of any bedbugs that get into your home being associated with your small is beyond small itself. It it only through archive research including furniture design up till the 1950's do you see and relate to the fact that its the outer layers that are the high risk items. However, if you feel your smalls need special attention may I suggest a soak in a bowl with determent as a "hand wash" type approach. We know that strong detergents will contact kill bedbugs in solution and then they can either continue to be hand washed or machine washed on cool.

    Now the point I wish to labor on is the fact that non of this requires a special laundry additive and as such the product is still in the "pointless category" enzyme based or not.

    However, in case there are those out there who are worried that they are not themselves taking these stripe at the door defense levels the reality is that ProActive and preventative can also work equally well at a line of defense whereby you harbour and monitor out through quick action.

    While they are both valid approaches one is a more "normal" and thus less stressful way of dealing with the issue and although it is a less traditionally focused upon side of what we do I can assure you the companies that understand how to help people through bedbug issues with minimal stress and anxiety get a lot more referrals than those who have not addressed that aspect. This approach is particularly true of hotels where the pride in the building and initial lack of understanding of the issue can really impact staff morale.

    I hope this has explained the issue and why some things are just an unnecessary product seeking a new application. Almost all of the "me too" and heavily marketed products have foundations in other areas if you know where to look.

    David

  13. Butterfly1972

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Wed Feb 5 2014 12:55:28
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    Now before we get too far into this one my smalls tend to cost more than $10 for a 10 pack, while the visible parts of my wardrobe remain a fixed constant (the Einstein simplification of decisions principle) the items which are closer to my skin tend to be selected for being comfortable and quality. I would not go as far as to say "why would you present a Tiffany bracelet in anything other than a pale blue bag" but you get my drift.

    <Totally scarlet faced> Well, um, trying to get the whole Tiffany bracelet comment out of my head.....David Beckham's latest commercial comes to mind.....ok, moving on..... <Remember to mark David Cain off the $10 for 10 list>

    <Even more scarlet faced and using a very quiet, shy voice> And, um, to help out a really nice guy, "smalls" may not be the best word to use when having a conversation with women about undergarments (at least us American women.....we *kinda, sorta* associate "smalls" in another way when referencing men and undergarments). Although, "smalls" used with an accent does bring a smile to my face...

    Ok, on a more serious note....I think where it gets tricky for me is when we've been on a long vacation and have loads of laundry to go through and clean. Now, of course, we always do room checks, but there's always that nagging, "Did I check good enough? What if I missed something?" kind of stuff that enters my mind as I'm going through laundry. For my "delicates", I do hand wash with Woolite and then let them air dry which would take care of any stragglers, but what about any eggs that could be in the seams, or under the lace, or around any of the tiny jewels that could be easily missed? The eggs are what worry me......albeit, maybe a silly worry. Does the detergent used in cold water take care of the eggs? And, I know, I'm going far into the "what if" side of this whole thing, I apologize, but it is one of those things I think of when doing the after vacation laundry.

  14. theyareoutthere

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Wed Feb 5 2014 13:23:41
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    Ah, Butterfly #?, we have an answer to the dilemna. I think you should be Blushing Butterfly #1 and I can be BS Meter Butterfly #2.

    However, remember that I am capable of plucking wings if you go back to baseless fears.

    Actually, this thread helped me because I have worried about it being in my nicer "small" items (I did laugh when David used the term "smalls"). I wash in hot water and then dry in a rack that is in the 2nd bathroom tub. Thinking that maybe the eggs will fall. I always thought there was risk that they would end up in underwear.

    We read about them in clothes left on the floor or people with high infestations.

    They
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    = TAOT
  15. Butterfly1972

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Wed Feb 5 2014 13:50:34
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    Ah, Butterfly #?, we have an answer to the dilemna. I think you should be Blushing Butterfly #1 and I can be BS Meter Butterfly #2.

    LOL....this thread definitely has my face burning, so Blushing Butterfly is quite fitting.

    (I did laugh when David used the term "smalls")

    I knew I wouldn't be the only girl to get a chuckle. All I could think of as I read it was, "Bless his heart. He's dealing with American women and I knew exactly where our silly minds would take us on that one."

    However, remember that I am capable of plucking wings if you go back to baseless fears.

    Please, don't pluck my wings!! I've worked really hard to get them. But, I have to admit the delicates with those seed type pearls (you know, the really little pearls that can be oblong shaped) sewed on them are really pretty, but can at times catch the eye and cause a bit of concern. But, not enough concern that I would let bed bugs stop me from wearing my pretty delicates.....see, that is progress...lol.

  16. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Wed Feb 5 2014 14:22:59
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    Hi,

    When traveling I always place my used laundry into a bed bug laundry bag and tie a loose knot in it. I am lucky that 98% of my wardrobe is black clothes so when I get home I do not need to segregate them. However, it not unfeasible to sort them as you travel and thus also avoid putting on new clothes that have a traveling odor of old ones.

    You are right that checking the room is the best thing but after that comes sorting your old clothes and checking the outside of the luggage. The bedbugs that get home with people are not usually "inside" the clothes unless its usual for you to leave dirty clothes all over a hotel room and particularly in extremely close proximity to the bed. If the room is checked and clear that about as far as steps need to be taken other than checking where you place the luggage.

    As far as eggs and clothes go its not a common occurrence in light infestations as there are lots of better locations for them to be laid first and you will have already spotted those by looking in the room. The only time I see bedbugs on clothes placed in a room the clothes have been there for a while and so have the bedbugs. Yes we are taking about the worst case scenario cases and the ones you fear takes you to when you see a single bedbug but my point here is that few infestations that people are actively tackling get to that stage. Often the hoarding and mess was in those locations long before the bedbugs moved in, they just happen to provide the perfect habitat, especially those who are non responders.

    I know some cope with bedbugs and the concept of bedbugs better than others but one of the hardest parts of my job is helping those who have allowed irrational fears to get the better of them, mainly because by definition they are not argued well with logic. I come across as cold at times but that is because I have to use the same tried and tested method that paramedics and doctors use to clear advice without becoming too emotional as ultimately the advice can and will help but the emotion is lost in the turmoil of the moment.

    Please take the sensible precautions and avoid over fixating as its harder to come back to "normal" life from there than anywhere leading up to that point.

    David

  17. Butterfly1972

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Wed Feb 5 2014 15:11:46
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    Hi David,

    You made very interesting points. A lot I knew, but needed to be reminded about.

    I'll give you a breakdown of how I travel. I pack everyone's clothes in ziplocs (meaning, one outfit per day per person in a ziploc). Now, I've been doing that well before bed bugs simply because when traveling with as a family and being gone for up to 2 weeks, it's really easy to forget someone's socks, undies, pajamas, etc. So, I've found that packing each outfit in ziplocs ensures everyone has everything they need for that day and it makes getting kids ready in the morning much easier. At the end of each day, I have the XXL ziplocs for dirty clothes.....one for lights, one for darks, and one for whites. Our luggage is kept in trash bags (tied closed) until we leave the hotel. So, I do take a lot of precautions. And then I check everything over very well once we are back home.

    So, in my mind, do I think we'll bring bugs home with us? No, really, in a rational state of mind I know that chance is very slim with all the precautions we take.

    Do I have the occasional irrational fear that slips in and takes over (as in the case of items that can only be washed in cold water and air dried as per above)? Yes, I do. But truly, I'm trying to be better about that. It's an ongoing process.

    Thanks for being the voice of reason!! It's not being cold, it's just being honest. And, I'm sorry if I overstepped my bounds in my posts above. It was my way of lightening a topic that I know brings me worry at times. Sometimes, what I *think* is funny, isn't so funny after all, but I don't *get* that in time to stop myself.

    Again, thanks for bringing it all back into focus.

  18. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Wed Feb 5 2014 15:37:55
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    Hi,

    No worries on the lightening of the tone, its just when ABs someone over steps the mark and then tried to accuse TAOT of making it all adult rated.

    We are sadly way beyond the point where the energy that has gone into silly things that don't help with bedbugs have outweighed what it would have taken to fix it 10 times over. That weighs on my mind at times because I do what I can to get the message through but I might have more luck with CETI.

    What you do in terms of bagging negates any worries on clothes when traveling and I hope also shows you that there is no need for a laundry additive. It may give you piece of mind but it will also put a who in your pocket, put something else into the environment that is just not needed and all at the cost of reinforcing a negative behavioural habit.

    The outside of the luggage is the key in my experience and that's a run through the PackTite for best results.

    David

  19. theyareoutthere

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Wed Feb 5 2014 18:05:44
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    bed-bugscouk - 2 hours ago  » 
    Hi,
    No worries on the lightening of the tone, its just when ABs someone over steps the mark and then tried to accuse TAOT of making it all adult rated.
    David

    I got my butterfly wings from being so patient with "someone" (Abs). Blushing Butterfly #1...it is OK when butterflies make jokes because we have a light sense of humor, and we know when to look away and blush...isn't that right? Unlike someone who might go too far and imply that Mr. Cain would pose for inappropriate pictures and send them to her...

    In all seriousness to the OP, I know someone who tried the 911 detergent (liquid) and didn't think much of it one way or the other, but determined it wasn't for them. This was years ago so they don't remember much else.

  20. cilecto

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Wed Feb 5 2014 19:24:49
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    > My problem is when items are "air drying" what if eggs hatch?!

    If you're doing this with suspect stuff coming into your non infested home, then I can see a small chance of this (I'm not an expert). Odds are there are no eggs.

    If you're trying to decon an item in an infested home for travel or storage, then it wouldn't matter if eggs hatch prior to the dryer. The item will be bug and egg free once it's out of the dryer. You'll take care of "the one that got away" in the regular course of home treatment.

  21. P Bello

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Thu Feb 6 2014 2:10:03
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    Hmmm . . . "laundry additive" you say ?

    If we look at what's being washed and the need to protect such garments then a laundry additive which would allow these garments to be laundered in cold water and yield 100% efficacy would definitely be of use to those folks who have such clothing and other washable items which cannot be laundered in hot water nor dried in the dryer without concern for shrinkage or other harm.

    As such, there would be significant utility if such a laundry additive became available for those with these concerns.

    Those interested in such a product should simply "stay tuned".

    Hope this helps ! paul b.

  22. ITortureBugs4Revenge

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Thu Feb 6 2014 3:35:06
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    I apologize for forgetting about the possibility of eggs surviving a washing machine cycle in soapy water, but the possibility of bedbugs living in or laying eggs in the items you mention are very small, unless maybe you store them under the bed or the infestation is a massive one. I have never heard that either bedbugs or lice are more capable than other insects of surviving under water, the only thing i can think of is the possibility of there being air pockets trapped in the clothes as they are being washed in which a lucky bug or two tightly clinging to the fabric may be able to survive in. I would also think that washing only a few items at a time would reduce the probability of air pockets. Anyhow i myself wouldn't attempt to use an insecticidal laundry detergent, as i would be much more worried about potential skin reactions to the chemicals than the possibility of bedbugs actually living and reproducing in my clothes.

  23. P Bello

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Thu Feb 6 2014 8:11:34
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    Dear torture,

    It has already been established that bed bugs may survive laundering in cold water. And if this is so, we'd expect that this would be comparatively easy for eggs.

    We need to understand that insects are built differently than humans and other warm blooded animals where breathing is concerned. Insects take in air to breath through structures called "spiracles". Think of these intake ports as "port holes" which they can shut tightly. Try doing that with your nose !

    These spiracles are connected to structures called "traechiolies" (sp? yikes, where's Lou when you need him?). These tube like structures hold lots of "air" for the insect which allow them to survive under water for extended periods of time.

    Now, imagine that you're a woman who just spent hours in the fitting and selection process of a high end bra. These items cost much more than folks might expect. I know I was shocked but they don't fit me well so I stopped buying them. Such expensive garments would be ruined by normal washing and drying at hot temperatures.

    However, if a non-persistent product with bed bug killing abilities was to become available, then this issue would be suitably addressed.

    Throw in a lemonie fresh scent and there ya go !

    pjb

  24. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Thu Feb 6 2014 8:15:31
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    Hi,

    I once saw 25% of a population of bedbugs wake up having been in an environment which was less than 0.001% oxygen for 4 days and others report issues with then being freeze stunned at an alleged -80C and waking up 30 minutes later.

    Its a tough insect with great adaptations to survive but one of those survival instincts is not to lay eggs on items that will be moved from close proximity with a source of food as characterised by their mototaxic nature.

    In the mean time as outlined above there will always be better more effective solutions to implement before resorting to the lowest of all probability events.

    David

  25. AbsolutelyFreaking

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Thu Feb 6 2014 9:45:37
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    cilecto - 13 hours ago  » 
    > My problem is when items are "air drying" what if eggs hatch?!
    If you're doing this with suspect stuff coming into your non infested home, then I can see a small chance of this (I'm not an expert). Odds are there are no eggs.

    Hi again cilecto! Yes, that was what my interest in such a product involved, but not for only the eggs but also the bugs . . . as the pros have stated that yes bed bugs can survive a cold wash and "hold their breath" for a long time.

    With this on-going discussion, I now understand that the possibility of eggs on "intimates" is not very likely. And although that was my interest in such a product, there are other posters on here stating that their interest in such a product is slightly different. So, Yes to "decon" any incoming potentially infested items (but not ONLY for intimates but for any items that can't be washed on hot, sweaters, etc.), and Yes there are also some who would use such a product for treatment of infested items in confirmed bed bug cases.

    ITortureBugs4Revenge - 5 hours ago  » 
    I have never heard that either bedbugs or lice are more capable than other insects of surviving under water . . .

    I'm pretty sure I read at one point (a long time ago) that someone wanted to go scuba diving for hours to get rid of head lice (I'm not making this up, I just hope I'm remembering it correctly) . . . anyway, the site I was reading said no it wouldn't work because head lice can hold their breath for a really long time (hours (maybe 8+ hours?)). (Also, think about when someone washes their hair with shampoo and water, that won't kill head lice either.) Anyway, I thought I had read the same of bed bugs (not the washing hair part but the holding their breath part . . . maybe not as long as head lice but for a long time). And reading Paul's and David's comments above, I think they are confirming that.

    ITortureBugs4Revenge - 5 hours ago  » 
    Anyhow i myself wouldn't attempt to use an insecticidal laundry detergent, as i would be much more worried about potential skin reactions to the chemicals . . .

    Good point! But I don't know much about enzymes . . . are enzymes that break down exoskeletons insecticides? And would enzymes even kill the eggs? But, yes, there's always the potential for skin reactions with any chemical . . . even regular laundry detergent and fabric softeners.

    P Bello - 1 hour ago  » 
    However, if a non-persistent product with bed bug killing abilities was to become available, then this issue would be suitably addressed.
    Throw in a lemonie fresh scent and there ya go !

    Ok, the "lemonie fresh scent" comment was a little funny!

    bed-bugscouk - 1 hour ago  » 
    In the mean time as outlined above there will always be better more effective solutions to implement before resorting to the lowest of all probability events.

    Duly noted! And that's why we have these sorts of discussions! I think you are saying (i) there are no existing products that work well for this purpose; (ii) we don't need a product like this anyway because there are other ways/methods to accomplish what needs to be done; and (iii) it would be just another chemical added to our plant???????? (That's kind of a question if I'm understanding everything you are saying?)

    So . . . with this discussion, I now understand that the possibility of bed bugs and eggs being on "intimates" is not very likely. However, I personally was not just concerned with intimates, as I was interested in such a product for the use for any item that couldn't/shouldn't be washed in hot water (nice sweaters, etc.). Additionally, others have posted on here also interested in such a product for different reasons. . . "decon" and "treatment" of infested items.

    I "hear" that there are other ways/methods to accomplish what we are wanting to do. (And I am, in fact, using some of those methods at this time.) However, these other methods are more work than simply having a laundry additive . . . if such an additive were available that worked.

    So in my personal view (and I think the others – but I'm not presuming to speak for them), I was interested in such a product for (i) peace of mind (in sort of a "leave no stone unturned" way); and (ii) convenience and ease and trying to cut down on the "work load" associated with either deconing for bed bugs or treating items for bed bugs.

    Thanks everyone for the information! (And sorry so long!!)

  26. Butterfly1972

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Thu Feb 6 2014 10:08:01
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    So in my personal view (and I think the others – but I'm not presuming to speak for them), I was interested in such a product for (i) peace of mind (in sort of a "leave no stone unturned" way); and (ii) convenience and ease and trying to cut down on the "work load" associated with either deconing for bed bugs or treating items for bed bugs.

    Well said, Abs!! Actually, your whole post was great, but the quoted comment above really sums it all up. Peace of mind really is priceless no matter what the subject matter.....not only when dealing with bed bugs.

    Throw in a lemonie fresh scent and there ya go !

    Paul, a light vanilla or lavender scent would be very nice, too. And, thanks for your comments as well.

  27. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Thu Feb 6 2014 10:11:26
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    Hi,

    I would still look at detergent solution soaking pre wash or a 50:50 pre made mixture of white wine vinegar and water as viable options before finally resorting to freeze based decon before contemplating a laundry additive. And even then a nice jumper is unlikely to be an issue and even if introduced by next line of defense is more than capable of tackling that scenario.

    I have days where I go in and out of heavily infested locations all day and although I do know of people who have worked along side me and later found bedbugs on their shoes my choice of footwear for the most part excludes that.

    The more common scenario would be a person who picks up bedbugs on public transport or a regular commute route. I would always advocate avoidance through not sitting down over a more detailed chain of options leading to advanced protocols for processing clothes. Again the second line of defense will cope with the low probability events.

    One of the reasons why I am against the over establishment of routines and intense protocols is that I can see them develop in people in severe obsessions and I have a case on my hands today where the solution will have to be to teach the occupants of the house how to deal with it as an assisted self treatment and training because one of the occupants of the house will not let any visitors in. This means for the last 15 years they have coped with boiling water since the boiler last broke. If I had Dr Who's tardis the main use would be to go back and fix some of those issues before they start and they can be devastating for people. I am not saying all situations turn out that way but part of reducing the impact and distress that bedbugs can cause people is to wherever possible avoid those issues from developing.

    Now if you are looking for the ultimate in defense on clothing switch to a latex wardrobe as bedbugs will not lay eggs on the smooth surface and a wipe down and buff up with latex polish would take care of anything.

    Have said just about all I can on this subject now though.

    David

  28. loubugs

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Thu Feb 6 2014 11:26:13
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    These spiracles are connected to structures called "traechiolies" (sp? yikes, where's Lou when you need him?). These tube like structures hold lots of "air" for the insect which allow them to survive under water for extended periods of time.

    Sorry, wasn't around to see this.
    Tracheae (plural of trachea) and tracheoles. Small tubes to smaller tubes that go to organ system functions in gas exchange in order to supply air (oxygen) and removed carbon dioxide. Tracheoles are around 1 micron in diameter. Tracheoles stay with the organ tissue they're in, but the tracheae are ectodermal in origin so shed with the skin when it molts. If you look at pictures of bed bug exuviae (shed skins), you'll see some tracheae. http://www.flickr.com/photos/lou_bugs_pix/5424452420/in/photostream/
    Tracheae and tracheoles fuse to form continuous tubing in the insect. Spiracles are the openings in the body wall and these are the openings to the tracheae. Muscular valves are present to shut the system down by closing the opening to restrict water loss and keep unwanted chemicals out.

    Professional entomologist/arachnologist. I consult on all matters dealing with insects and arachnids, including those of natural history and biology to pest management and forensic entomology investigations.
  29. AbsolutelyFreaking

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Thu Feb 6 2014 11:38:51
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    Thanks Lou!

    Do you have any idea/estimate regarding how long a bed bug can "hold its breath" . . . either under water or not??

  30. Butterfly1972

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Thu Feb 6 2014 14:40:18
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    David is very right about not letting things become a negative behavioral habit/routine. That's a very fine line and each person has to be honest with themselves about what is a healthy routine and what is an OCD routine. It's not always easy to see the distinction between the two...that's for sure. I've spent many hours and a lot of money in therapy trying to learn the difference.

    When I typed above about how I travel, I should have been more clear about what I do and why I do it. And I'm only explaining this to *hopefully* point out what part of my travel is simply a convenience/organizational habit and what crosses over into OCD for me and something that I do keep a close handle on.

    The ziplocs that I use for outfits was started as a means of not forgetting anything at home that we would need while traveling. And I was tired of buying new items while on vacation simply because it was something I forgot to pack. It was a tip I read about on a mom's blog years and years ago and has proved helpful ever since. So, for me, it's not an unhealthy habit, but more of an organizational habit.

    The dirty laundry ziplocs started from reading on here about the bed bug laundry bags. And I liked the idea of my laundry already being sorted before arriving back home and thus making the after vacation laundry a lot easier and faster to complete. But, I had remembered reading a thread where someone had trouble with them dissolving in water, so I decided to just use XXL ziplocs instead. I'll point out here, that, yes, ziplocs are costly, so I do reuse them (I packtite them, and while they are still hot, I lay them flat, and then store them away with our luggage after they have cooled).

    The suitcase in a trash bag I also learned on here. Again, the trash bag comes home with us and is packtite'd and then reused. We are a recycling family and it's kind of a game at our house to make sure we have more items in the recycle bins than in the regular garbage can. And, for anyone who does use ziplocs, they can be recycled. If your local recycling group doesn't accept them, they can be taken to any Walmart and put in the plastic bag recycle. I got that tip from our local recycling group. Ziplocs can't be made into new ziplocs since they are considered as something that would come into contact with food, but they can be made into other things and kept out of the landfills. That's what I do with mine after several uses when they lose their ability to stay closed or get holes in them.

    Ok, what I have to keep a handle on....for me anyway, is the trash bag part of my travel. The question I ask myself is, "Will I still be comfortable during my vacation if I don't to A, B, C..." The ziplocs I could live without.....they are simply a convenience. The trash bag falls more into a "safety" area for me, and thus feels more like an OCD action because I know that I would be worried if I didn't use them. Does that make sense? I still use the trash bags because they give me that peace of mind I need while vacationing with my family. And I have to weigh protecting my family from bringing home bed bugs vs. a possible OCD action on my part with being a happy mom on vacation vs. being a worried mom. Gosh, really, does that make sense? It made sense as I typed it.....hopefully, it will keep that "sense" in translation.

    Anyway, I'm not advocating doing what I do while I travel, it's just simply what I do. For me, it's about finding the balance between unhealthy and healthy habits. And, honestly, I am a person who does have to keep a close eye on developing unhealthy habits. I've 'been there/done that/got the medal to prove it' in some areas, but again it's about finding the right balance. Hope this helps someone. I went back and forth about posting this, but decided if it could help someone, then it was worth putting it out there.

  31. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Thu Feb 6 2014 15:11:19
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    Hi,

    I am not a huge fan of the complete dissolving bags, I use a different brand and process by which only a single seam dissolves and opens the contents to the wash. No bobbles, no failures and even better no horrific rip off price to protect a TM and company that does not actually exist. Sadly the consumer does not appear to have the full choice at present but let me work on that one.

    It all makes sense and is not OTT in fact its very "six sigma" which is a process about design and form simplicity.

    David


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