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Infrared sauna

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  1. livinginahorrorfilm

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    Posted 10 years ago
    Wed Sep 10 2008 21:34:21
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    Right, so I used to go to a spa and get infrared wraps. Infrared has countless benifits on your joints, muscles, detox, skin (elastisity, stretchmarks, cellulite ect.) It also increases your blood flow, especially close to the surface, not to mention burns some calories ect. To many health benifits to mention so if interested do some research. Anyways, it is expensive in spas, but you can actually buy infrared saunas for your house $2000 to $5000. Being a renter and living in an apartment, this was not an option for me, but on my list of things I want once I am a homeowner. Anyways, while researching my health problem I came accross this info again, but low and behold, they have a portable one that I never knew about. AND for only $300. Immediately I thought - damn these bed bugs, I want to buy it soooo badly, but do not want to bring anything new into my home until I am sure they are gone! Then I started thinking WAIT - they could not live inside AND I could put non-laundry items inside too!

    Would this not be just like that Packlite box that somehow gets hot? Am I first one to think of this, or has it already been shut down as a possible help/cure? It gets upto 149F inside and is big enough for a person!

  2. bugbait

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    Posted 10 years ago
    Wed Sep 10 2008 21:36:39
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    Sounds like a great idea....If this gets the thumbs up - I'll be next in line to buy one. Hope there are some great answers coming soon...

  3. djames1921

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    Posted 10 years ago
    Wed Sep 10 2008 23:38:22
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    In the spirit of full disclosure, I am one of the people who designed Packtite, so I realize my comments will be taken with a large grain of salt. In designing and testing Packtite we came across several problems. One of those was making sure bed bugs could not escape. Packtite has its zipper at the top of the unit to keep bed bugs from escaping and the internal side walls are slick to prevent climbing by bed bugs (which are not very good climbers compared to many other insects). The full top to floor zipper on the portable infared sauna unit would allow escape. In our tests when bed bugs get heated up, they begin running around like mad seeking out of this situation, hence our zipper at the top. The second thing we discovered was that in order to heat the insides of large objects, like a suitcase full of clothes or a stack of towels, you need air circulation balanced with an appropriate heat source. In our early models, the only way we could get the insides of "large objects" hot enough to kill bed bugs was to increase the heat output of the heater unit in Packtite to levels that would damage personal items and damage the electronics of the heater. Also, without the right amount of air circulation, multiple objects placed in Packtite would not heat evenly and would sometimes result in cool zones where bed bugs would not be killed. Appropriate air circulation creates a uniform heated environoment inside of Packtite that given enough time (4 hours) will allow the center of packed suitcases to reach 120 F without damaging/melting the object placed inside, and this modification eliminated damaging hot zones and non fatal cool spots. Finally, our design was changed a couple times to eliminate cool spots, which would be another concern inside the portable sauna. Insulating materials secured to the outer walls of Packtite created a tiny gap, large enough for bed bugs, which would never reach temperatures hot enough to kill them. This is also why packtite has a shelf that keeps items placed in Packtite off of the floor of the unit. Without the shelf, items placed on the ground of packtite created a cool spot where the item touched the floor of the unit. Many of our early designs would create temperatures in certain areas inside of Packtite that would kill bed bugs, but without the right air flow/heat combination we would either burn things or not be able to create a uniform hot temperature. It looks like the portable sauna will direct the heat inside towards the person in the chair, I would be surprised if temperatures inside the portable sauna near the full length front zipper area would ever get hot enough, especially since this side of the unit is not insulated.

    When I first came up with this idea, I thought, this will be easy, just put a heater in a box.............

  4. livinginahorrorfilm

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    Posted 10 years ago
    Thu Sep 11 2008 18:52:04
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    Hmmm....I totally agree on the point regarding not being 100% enclosed to avoid escape, but as for hot spots and cold spots I stuggle.

    This is infrared heat - it has a whole different wavelength and penetrates much much deeper than heat from any other possible heat source. As infrared sauna is not like a steam sauna and does not even feel hot, but penetrates and heats your body via wavelegths. It might be likely though that these wave lenghts don't even effect them. This would also not be putting a packed suitcase into. This would be putting, computers, speakers, a night table...ect....

  5. livinginahorrorfilm

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    Posted 10 years ago
    Thu Sep 11 2008 19:48:05
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    djjames,

    What kind of heat is used in your packtite? I fully admit that so far my research on this is limited, but I am beginning to understand that infrared attracts them, and kills them. I think this may even be the type of "heat" that Therma uses, but have yet to get to the bottom of that. Knowing what I do about heat and infrared - my best observation is that this is what they use, but their patents seem to restrict this information.

    I need to do MUCH more research, and promise to report back my findings by Sunday. NOBUGSONME, you appear to me to be a highly educated person, both on this subject and on an overall basis. What do you know about this?

    I do know that they are becoming immune to the pesticides we do use, including DDT o fyears ago, so a PCO along with cleaning, bagging can only get us so far. I am hopign you can look into this along with me and report back what you find.

    Note: I do realize that one little tent for putting items in still leaves a whole house, wall ect of untreated area, and there is still the issue of sealing it, but I think I am on to something here.

  6. djames1921

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    Posted 10 years ago
    Thu Sep 11 2008 23:12:14
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    Because the portable sauna unit uses infrared heat and is a wavelength, it has to be directed inside that sauna unit to what you are trying to heat. In the case of the sauna unit, the reflective panels aim those wavelengths onto whatever is sitting in the chair. If you were to put objects into the path of these wavelengths they would heat up, however, objects and or areas inside the portable unit that were not "hit" by these wavelengths would not. Cool spots where the wavelengths were not directed would serve as safety zones for bed bugs.

    The following is from http://www.iqsdirectory.com/infrared-heaters/
    "Infrared heaters are best used in areas where some kind of object, rather than a space, needs to be heated (i.e. adhesive curing, drying lacquer, liquid paint curing, etc.)."

    The sauna unit is so large there is plenty of "space" in it that would not be hit by those waves. I suppose you could use it to force bed bugs out of objects that could be centered in the unit, but then you would have them hiding out inside or as mentioned before escaping.

    As far as infrared attracting bed bugs, I am assuming you are referring to the following patent http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?WO=2008088546&IA=US2007026046&DISPLAY=DESC.

    In this experiment, the inventors created a cooled chamber and introduced infrared radiation using mirrors, they tested the heat given off by those mirrors and the heat was 32 C or 90 F and 6 C or 42 F. The bed bugs in this experiment went more often towards 90 F than the other which was 42 F. Others have also shown that bed bugs will attract towards heat sources and i think that is all that is going on here. It would be nice if they would be attracted to infrared heat temperature levels that would instantly kill them, because then the sauna would work, heck you wouldn't even need the sauna, just point an infrared wave and attract bed bugs to their doom.

    I found some info on ThermPure for whole house treatments and they use a combination of infrared and heat exchangers, a combo to heat up surfaces that wavelengths are directed towards and also raise air temperature to create an environment in the whole room/house that will kill them.

    One of these days I'm gonna convince you to buy my product :).

  7. BakedBedBugs

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    Posted 10 years ago
    Fri Sep 12 2008 10:18:39
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    djames,

    I hear what you are saying. This is much more complex than people believe at first.

    For example we did a bunch of consecutive successful treatments and then ran into two failures very close together. After much head scratching we realized the one constant was these were both high rises with laminate flooring over foam over concrete.This flooring combination creates a thermal heat sink that can take a lot more btu's to get up to temperatures. We weren't treating the zones along the floor edges agressively enough. A simple change in fan positioning and temperature probing solves the problem.

    The infrared heaters that ThermaPure uses work great in a realtively clutter free environment like a hotel room, but are not the best solution for many peoples homes.

    Tony Canevaro


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