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Government Action Now!

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  1. DDTNOW

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Sat Mar 19 2011 19:23:51
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    Government needs to step up and do something... Spent 8G's so far between treatment, K9 inspection and property loss. The reason this is an epidemic is because our government won't do something about it. Rather than act, our politicians organize bed bug summits, lol... what a joke. These PCO's are laughing all the way to the bank, price gauging victims while providing very little with regard to guarantees. Can't really blame them as this problem is bigger than them. These bugs cause far more damage than simply financial. The anxiety and depression I have experienced has been incredible. My relationship is under pressure as well, as my girlfriend won't come to my apartment until this is resolved. I live in a brand new luxury highrise in Manhattan and have just gone through my third treatment. The fact that I pay 4G's a month rent on top of the insane taxes I pay to this city and I have to deal with a bed bug problem is totally unacceptable... I am praying that this is the end of this however I am not very confident as these pest are spawns of the devil himself...

    DDTNOW.... Quality of life over tree huggers... kill the bugs! Write to your local politicians now...

  2. DDTNOW

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Sat Mar 19 2011 19:35:11
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  3. DDTNOW

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Sat Mar 19 2011 19:42:36
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    James Marusek
    January 7, 2011 at 10:57 am | Permalink
    I lived in a suburb of Chicago in the late 1950′s and early 1960′s. Crop dusters would fly over our housing track and spray a fine mist of DDT. It was like a very dense fog bank. Whenever the planes would fly over, all the children in the neighborhood (including me) would immediately run outdoors and play in the fine chemical mist. I enjoyed the experience immensely and 50 years later, I see no ill health effects. DDT was a wonder chemical then and as it is today. Too bad this chemical has been banned due to unscientific unfounded fears.

  4. so unsettling

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Sat Mar 19 2011 19:47:24
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    I haven't read your link yet, but I thought that, according to all reports, DDT wouldn't work on bed bugs even if we used it.

  5. DDTNOW

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Sat Mar 19 2011 19:50:19
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    I'm not a scientist however sounds like propaganda to me... We put a lander on Mars and we can't find a solution for bedbugs?? Give me a break...

  6. so unsettling

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Sat Mar 19 2011 19:55:42
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    Actually, the laws of astrophysics and the galaxies are more simple than what we are dealing with here. For several millenia, humankind has been able to cross seemingly impossible hurdles while failing to kill the common cold or rid the planet of certain bugs.

    Agree about the tree-huggers, though, even though I am a left-leaning liberal on most issues. Nature is not our friend, and we shoudn't go overboard to protect it

  7. DDTNOW

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Sat Mar 19 2011 20:11:14
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  8. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Sat Mar 19 2011 20:44:54
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    Please re-read the thread you contributed to last week.

    There is evidence that bed bugs are now resistant to DDT.

    I am all for solutions being developed and I agree the government needs to do more, but calling for DDT to be brought back does not seem like the simple solution you're looking for.

    I started and run the site but am "not an expert."
  9. jrbtnyc

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Sat Mar 19 2011 23:42:28
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    Check out the following thread from last Sep-9 to Oct-9 which, you will note, had 114 posts during that 30-day span but none since.

    http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/new-yorkers-we-really-need-to-come-together-and-call-for-action

    (I've now just added the tag "government" to make it easier to find in future.)

  10. Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Sun Mar 20 2011 5:31:23
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    Move to "Taxachusetts". We have a government here: the landlord has to pay to get rid of the bugs.

    That doesn't mean it's been absolutely dirt cheap. ClimbUps, mattress encasements, plastic bags, easy-to-inspect plastic storage bins to replace impossible-to-inspect cardboard boxes, sofa encasements, and so on: all that stuff is still up to the tenant. I bought sealant for the gap under the baseboard heaters, too, although I haven't applied it yet. I suspect that would legally be the landlord's responsibility, but it's not worth the hassle for such a small expense.

    The focus on pesticides just seems stupid to me, though. Using more pesticide certainly makes the bugs resistant faster, but I can't imagine it accomplishing anything else. Well, it can also replace crabs with snails in nearby lakes and streams, and it can wipe out predatory insects and centipedes so that pest populations bounce back faster and higher. But I don't consider that an accomplishment exactly.

  11. cilecto

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Sun Mar 20 2011 7:25:54
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    I posted my thoughts about this to DDTNOW's prior post on the same theme. It's not worth my energy to repeat.

    http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/bed-bug-victim-rant#post-103485

    Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night...
    - Psalms 91:5-7

    (Not an pro)
  12. jrbtnyc

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Sun Mar 20 2011 9:15:23
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    cilecto - 1 hour ago  » 
    ...DDTNOW's prior post on the same theme. ...
    http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/bed-bug-victim-rant#post-103485

    Ah, so let's add "rant" to the tags for this thread, like that other thread.

  13. DougSummersMS

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Sun Mar 20 2011 9:53:55
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    Nobugsonme - 1 week ago  » 
    There was report from this century from Africa (via the BBC) about DDT being applied to the walls of huts to treat malarial mosquitoes. The DDT did not harm the bed bugs. Witnesses claimed it made them more active.
    Here's what this BBC article said in 2001:


    For the South African health department, malaria "hit-teams" based in the Ubombo region, the spraying season has just started.
    The spraymen fan the chemical up and down the hut walls and into the thatch in swathes.
    DDT is cheap to buy and its effects are long-lasting; a year's assurance at least against mosquitoes.
    But there are drawbacks. As the chemical dries, it leaves a white deposit on the hut walls, and it has been found to make bedbugs more active.
    The government entomologist who leads the hit-teams, Keith Hargreaves, says most people accept that as a small price to pay.
    "The bedbugs they can tolerate," he says. "But to watch one's children die of malaria - that no man can stand."

    [Emphasis added.]
    Sorry, but the fact is that while DDT was once very effective against bed bugs, over time they developed resistance to it. It is not a good solution for bed bugs anymore.
    More articles on this issue here and here.

    Okay

    DDTNOW
    Help me understand something here... There are countries where DDT is still used as a Repellent to reduce the number of disease carrying mosquitoes in people's homes... Why do these very same houses that have received heavy broadcast treatments of DDT continue to be infested with bed bugs?

    Can you name a single country where DDT is in common use that has managed to eliminate bed bugs successfully?

    There are a number of places in the world where DDT is in active use... Can you even name one that should be looked upon by the US as a model for successfully utilizing DDT for bed bug control?

    I didn't think so... You might want to do some basic homework before you proclaim to the world that you have a perfect solution that you have never tried... for a problem that you fail to understand... You can think of pesticide resistance for bed bugs much like bacterial resistance to the overuse of antibiotic drugs... The pathogens (or bugs) mutate and become unresponsive to agents that were previously effective.

    We need a effective insecticide that is cheap with a permissive label that can be used on bedding, furniture, personal effects and in residences safely... DDT was that chemical in the late 30s and early 40s, but it will not produce the same results today because it was overused.

    I don't really see any causal relationship between legislation banning DDT and the return of bed bugs to our society 30 - 40 years later... DDT was already ineffective for bed bug eradication before it was removed from the market... DDT had already been replaced by other OP chemicals during the 50s and 60s.

    It is like calling for the return of an obsolete antibiotic drug to deal with a drug resistant pathogen.

    Penicillin had a dramatic effect back back a few decades ago, but it is virtually worthless for treating a modern mutant drug resistant bacteria like MRSA today... for example.

  14. jrbtnyc

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Sun Mar 20 2011 13:03:34
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    DougSummersMS - 3 hours ago  » 
    ... The pathogens (or bugs) mutate and become unresponsive to agents that were previously effective. ...

    It's a technical point not germane to the current discussion itself but I have to be pedantic and correct this now-practically-universal misstatement: resistance to pesticides or antibiotics or etc. arises not because of *mutations* creating new genetic material but because of *recombination* of already-existing genetic material, i.e. reshuffling "implementation" of genes that have been there for thousands and millions of years, bringing to the forefront the expression of new "combinations" of genetic material all of which was already in the "gene pool" if you will.

    See my comment of October 6, 2010 at 7:12 pm at http://bedbugger.com/2010/10/05/bed-bugs-evolution-and-pesticide-resistance .

    If bed bugs as a species had had *zero mutations* since the 1940's when DDT was first applied to them and to other insects, they would have developed resistance at exactly the same pace as in fact happened – due to recombination.

    Of course bed bugs have had some *mutations* since the 1940's but, 99.99% likely, none having anything to do with susceptibility to insecticides because mutations are inherently aimless and unconnected with each other, their effects are random, and they're most likely to have no effect on the organism or, actually, kill the organism.

    And certainly they don't coordinate complex biochemical pathways among themselves within a few months, years, or decades to bestow upon the organism some advantage such as resistance to chemicals!

    Okay I feel better, now resume the current discussion .

  15. zlatik

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Sun Mar 20 2011 13:56:24
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    The fact that you pay 4G a month means you can afford bed bug treatment and I would really appreciate if you would stop victimizing yourself to the point of making me want to puke. I understand that you feel entitled to everything in your life, including a bed bug free existence, but please take a second and remember that not all people are as fortunate as you. Your inability to understand, or at least try to comprehend, that DDT may not be a solution is amazing. Furthermore, just because you WANT something does not mean it works that way. DDT does not kill bed bugs and another pesticide cannot be developed at a drop of a magic potion. So please, find somewhere deep inside compassion for people who are in a very different financial situation than you are, yet do not expect the government or a magician to solve their problems. Thank you.

    ps please do not promote or give an impression that nay pesticide (DDT included) is safe for children or any living thing in general. You are NOT a scientist, as you said yourself, and just because some one guy had no affects does not mean it is safe. Just as because one guy survived a plain crash does not mean you will too (god forbid).

  16. spideyjg

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Sun Mar 20 2011 14:11:05
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    You never answered my questions in the other thread....I asked twice.

    Has anyone produced any hard BB evidence live bugs, fecal traces, or cast skins?

    Did you go through treatment based only on a dog?

    I went through treatment based on my bites and the dogs confirmation in my bedroom

    Again, did anyone produce concrete proof of BBs?

      The only 100% proof is cast skins or eggs, fecal traces, and actual bugs.

    If all you are going on is skin reactions and a dog alert, you don't have proof of BBs and are chasing the wrong answer.

    Jim

  17. DougSummersMS

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Sun Mar 20 2011 17:57:39
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    JRBTNYC

    You are correct... My use of the word mutant and the antibiotic analogy were an attempt to illustrate the concept of insecticide resistance in common terms... Thanks for the clarification on that point.

    Selection pressure in DDT susceptible populations is the primary mechanism that eliminated bed bugs that are not DDT resistant from the gene pool... Insecticide resistance traits are passed on to their offspring by the survivors... The non-resistant bugs are eliminated and do not reproduce... ect.

    DDTNOW
    I would urge you to consider give serious weight to the question that is being posed by Jim.

    Treating solely on the basis of a K9 alert without any physical evidence is not a good practice... You don't need DDT now... You need physical confirmation of those K9 alerts and visual identification of the pest before you proceed any further.

    zlatik
    Everyone deserves to live bed bug free... I don't think economic status should be an issue here... Bed bugs certainly do not discriminate when choosing a host.

    In a more perfect world... treatment would be free for everyone without any restrictions whatsoever.

    Effective universal treatment and proactive inspections are the only way to reverse the current trend of widespread bed bug prevalence throughout every state in the nation.

  18. zlatik

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Sun Mar 20 2011 18:50:37
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    Everyone deserves to live bed bug free...

    True

    I don't think economic status should be an issue here...

    Economic status is not an issue. Sense of entitlement based on higher economic status is most definitely an issue. Just because he lives in an upscale building in Manhattan and pays hire taxes does not make him any more deserving to live bed bug free than the person living in East Harlem. His biggest problem caused by bed bugs seems to be not getting laid. If you read posts of many other people on this forum you will realize that people face loosing all their possessions, as well as savings, not to mention people with young children or disability.

    In a more perfect world... treatment would be free for everyone without any restrictions whatsoever.

    That may be your perfect world, but that would be a destruction of what we call democratic government today. Being bed bug free is not a right, therefore government has no business providing everyone with free treatments. In some cases of needy and disabled families reservations apply and those situations should be immediately addressed.

    Effective universal treatment and proactive inspections are the only way to reverse the current trend of widespread bed bug prevalence throughout every state in the nation.

    I would substitute treatment for education and change to "proactive inspections for public institutions, including but not limited to colleges, hospitals, and etc"

    Don't take me wrong, I am a broke recently graduated students with no money in my bank account who is still in search of a real-world job. My mommy and daddy did not buy me a packtite, hire an inspector, or buy me encasements. I escaped bed bugs because I was educated in the subject and acted quickly. I freaked out like no other and even wrote a long "poor me" post of despair. In the end there are two responsible parties for solving a problem of bed bugs I and my landlord. I do not see why nor do I want government involved in this process for my sake, for the sake of landlord and his property, and for the sake of every person who pays taxes.

    ps if they carried and spread disease the situation would be different because they would be a threat to national human security, since they do not they cannot and should not be considered as a threat.

  19. DougSummersMS

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Sun Mar 20 2011 20:26:17
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    zlatik
    Don't worry... Socialized pest control is a total non-starter in the current political arena... Even people with bed bugs are opposed to the use of public tax money to eradicate them.

    I would assert that psychological effects are health issues, but we really should start a new thread to kick the medical issue around.. if you want to pursue it.

    This war will be fought one unit at a time leaving a trail of financially devastated residents and landlords in its wake because the proper holistic IPM approach requires a coordinated attack rather than spot treatment.

    The lack of funding and central coordination leads to the prediction that the prevalence of bed bug infestations will continue unabated in this country for the foreseeable future.

    Unfortunately, I don't trust the government to solve this problem either... Socialized pest control would likely fail too... I don't anticipate government intervention serving as a panacea.

    Given that bed bugs will likely be with us in great numbers for the next few decades... We might want to learn to show some compassion and support for our fellow citizens that are affected by these little parasites without judging each other so harshly.

  20. Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Sun Mar 20 2011 23:33:53
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    If bed bugs as a species had had *zero mutations* since the 1940's when DDT was first applied to them and to other insects, they would have developed resistance at exactly the same pace as in fact happened – due to recombination.

    I don't believe this is correct. The reservoir of pre-existing useful alleles should be almost fully exploited in only a couple hundred generations, and bedbugs reproduce fast enough that they've had more than that since DDT use began. But even before that, mutations will come into play too. See also the discussion here:

    http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/my-theory-on-why-bed-bugs-have-become-immune-to-synthetic-pesticides

    Of course recombination is important. That goes without saying -- even when it shouldn't. In a discussion focused on molecular details, it's like belaboring the fact that there is indeed air in my apartment. But most people aren't focused on molecular details most of the time, and the basic fact of recombination ought to figure prominently in any introduction.

    Unfortunately, I don't trust the government to solve this problem either... Socialized pest control would likely fail too... I don't anticipate government intervention serving as a panacea.

    Given that bed bugs will likely be with us in great numbers for the next few decades... We might want to learn to show some compassion and support for our fellow citizens that are affected by these little parasites without judging each other so harshly.

    It need not be a question of compassion. If you believe that there are no cases where economies of scale extend to the entire market for some good, no cases of asymmetric information, no transaction costs, no barriers to entry into any market, and no externalities (and about a dozen other criteria), then the market always knows best and the compassionate thing to do is to let it work instead of making things worse. In the real world, however, pest control is certainly the sort of situation where government action may be warranted. My actions in eradicating my infestation, or not, don't affect just me: they affect anyone who might be infested by people who get infested by (etc.) my infestation. My actions in making bugs resistant to more poisons faster, or not, don't affect just me. They affect people who may use those poisons later. My use of poison that eventually gets released into the environment, or not, doesn't affect just me. Even my use of DE and sealant, or not, affects future tenants in this apartment. Bearing the costs of your own actions, either inherently or via contracts, is fundamental to how markets work.

    Markets are amazing. It seems beyond impossible that the vast coordination that goes into even making a pencil (to use the classic example) could ever happen, but markets creak and rattle along without collapsing, most of the time. No politician should gain power without a healthy appreciation for what markets do right. But market fundamentalism is just as devoid of merit as naive socialism.

  21. bbgirl

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Mon Mar 21 2011 10:36:30
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    Going back to government action.....something must be done - I've been battling them for 2 months now and if you add in the cost of discarded furniture I've probably spent close to $10K. Plus the hundreds of hours of steaming, bagging, laundry - junk removal, spraying - how would people without the financial resources or with many children deal with all of this? I live in Canada so have had to order most materials from the US with heavy shipping charges...if some households fail to deal with them because of cost or inability to deal with all of the work they'll be everywhere! I applaud the courage of local politicians who lobby for funding and education on this issue. Not really yet a popular cause because most people are blissfully unaware of the issues

  22. zlatik

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Mon Mar 21 2011 11:38:39
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    There is moderate local government assistance with ensuing that PCOs are not conning people and there are clearly defined responsibilities assigned to a landlord, a tenant, and owners of a houses, condos, and apartments. There are also preventive measures, such as education and upkeep of public spaces. That is very different from a government run program that is targeted towards treatment of bed bugs infestations in private homes. If you are not familiar with why government-run programs fail 99.99% of the time I welcome you to learn more about…any really.

    I can only imaging what would happen. First, they would need to stop the spread, therefore if you get bed bugs you are not allowed to move. Second, you will have to fill out miles of paperwork and go through weeks of red tape to get approved for treatment. Then, the treatment you will get most definitely will not be heat treatment or very gentle on your pets/kids. Oh, wait, what happens if you are illegal? That will be fun one to decide on. Let’s spend another 20 million on debating this issue and than have it stuck in senate for the next three decades. I get that in theory government action seems like a great idea because it solves your problems right now and right here, but please remember that if you were not facing this issue you would not give a damn about it.

    If there was a good solution, in my opinion it would be initiated by insurance companies. Different plans for different people. Probably would be required in apartment and condo complexes. I could expand further if anyone is actually interested in the idea.

  23. Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri Mar 25 2011 12:47:06
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    Given its title, this topic should probably have a link to the item about HR 967.
    http://bedbugger.com/2011/03/25/bed-bug-management-prevention-and-research-act-hr-967-proposed-in-congress/

    Comments on the bill should be posted there, not here.

  24. DustinBBKiller

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri Mar 25 2011 23:56:13
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    I logged in just to say you have WAY to much confidence in the gubmint.


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