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Four Months Bite Free - Steps Taken

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  1. Jeanette

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    Posted 10 years ago
    Tue Oct 28 2008 12:29:31
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    Thank you, Dottie. I feel good to be bite-free and to be able to lead a normal life, under the cirumstances. I wish you success in your battle against these awful creatures.

  2. lyramommy

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    Posted 10 years ago
    Sun Dec 7 2008 23:57:02
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    That is encouraging to hear you got rid of them without a PCO. I am also on a very tight budget and have been suffering for a while, every time I think I have them gone it seems like they come from nowhere and I have to start all over again. I also live alone, or at least there are no other adults in the house, and have problems moving furniture by my self. I have had my children's room bb free for about 6 months now with just basic cleaning and OTC sprays; but I sleep in the living room and cannot get them out of the couches. I have replaced the couches twice since this whole thing started and cannot afford to do it again. I am going to try your mix and cross my fingers! Fortunately the newest couches are grey.

  3. surrounded

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    Posted 10 years ago
    Mon Dec 8 2008 1:53:07
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    this is very encouraging. I am in a situation where I have a light infestation that has been treated by a PCO four times, and still recurs. I really dont want to spray more chemicals in the room where i sleep. I just went thru two days of laundry, inspection, re-caulking, steaming, laying DE, throwing more wood items out, bagging in mothballs, etc. I have been hesitant to ask the landlord to send the PCO again, as what they are doing is clearly not a complete solution. I go up to a month BB free and then get another bite. I think I am going to try this spray solution, and see if that will work. The dish soap is a good idea, as this is a surefire way to kill most insects as it breaks the surface tension on their exoskeleton and liquids can penetrate their bodies and kill them. They essentially drown. (my mom's a biologist and tasked me with killing the bugs in the garden with dish soap in a bucket when i was a kid). Actually, I have been wondering about this in conjunction with laundry. It seems to me that enough soap and water will kill any BB in the laundry. Is the hot temperature required to kill the eggs? This would make sense as the eggs will not be affected by the soap.

    It will be such a relief if this works.

  4. Jeanette

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    Posted 10 years ago
    Mon Dec 8 2008 10:25:57
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    Hi lyramommy and surrounded. I think the mixture will work as well for you as it has done for me. However, lyramommy, I am not sure how safe it is to spray it all over the couch if you are sleeping on it. I sprayed it only to the outer sides of my couch - back and sides that I do not touch, and to the skirting. I did not spray the entire couch with it as then it would touch my skin and I have urticaria. However, my couches were not infested - my bed was infested. I sprayed the couches as a preventive measure.

    I did sleep on the couch for some weeks. To avoid getting the couches infested, I also sprayed the part of the couches which touches my skin with rosemary essence oil, two or three times, at two week intervals, bought from a natural food store, as a preventive measure. I know it is not sure-fire, but hoped the strong smell of rosemary (which like tea-tree, eucalyptus, neem and some other oils) is not liked by bedbugs. I prayed it would work and am very grateful that by the grace of God my couches have stayed bug-free.

    I feel your pain and wish you success with these awful creatures.

  5. lyramommy

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    Posted 10 years ago
    Fri Dec 12 2008 18:19:25
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    Thank you for the tip on the rosemary oil as well. Any help I can get right now is appreciated. I swear these things are going to drive me crazy!!! lol... This is a great site for support.

  6. surrounded

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    Posted 10 years ago
    Sat Dec 13 2008 18:52:48
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    I just sprayed the inside of my dresser, and the bed frame. A word of warning - this mixture really makes me cough. I dont know if its the alchohol or if the spray is getting in my nose, but it made me cough for a while so i would recommend a dust mask.

  7. Klaus

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    Posted 10 years ago
    Wed Dec 17 2008 14:47:00
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    Thanks a lot for the information, I don't think I would have stumbled upon Richard Fagerlund's tactic if it weren't for this post. We had Orkin and Terminix give us an estimate for one bedroom, but they're prices are high and it would require us to sign a long-term contract. I've read many times that PCO's treatment is not even guaranteed, even if you follow all of their directions. Additionally, I didn't want someone coming by at least once a month to spray toxic pesticides for a year.

    Mr. Fagerlund seems very credible and true success stories like yours are always optimistic. Today we ordered 1 pound of the household pesticide Perma-guard and just the regular animal grade, as well. The woman from Perma-guard specifically recommended the household pesticide variation (which is only a little more expensive, you can also buy it from the official site http://www.perma-guard.com) for killing bed bugs from customer feedback. She said the animal feed grade works well, but this version has an additional ingredient which will work faster. I will definitely post my results once we begin treatment, but it'll take at least 5 business days before it arrives.

    To those who are on the fence about this method, I think the major difference between some of the other pesticides and diatomaceous earth, is that the latter leaves a visible residue. This remaining residue will continue to kill any insects that comes in contact with it, as opposed to some toxic sprays which have little residual effects. The problem with toxic chemicals having residual effects is that it can affect your health over long exposure. Diatomaceous earth is non-toxic, further illustrated by the fact that you can add this into your livestock's diet to kills worms and other parasites.

    Finally, the website (www.perma-guard.com) also recommended placing the powder down on your entire carpet and letting it sit before vacuuming. I forgot how long, but I'll try for as long as possible to kill these bugs. Once again, thank you Jeanette and hopefully I'll be posting another success story similar to yours.

  8. Klaus

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    Posted 10 years ago
    Wed Dec 17 2008 14:54:21
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    By the way, DO NOT give your pets/animals the household pesticide Perma-guard! I read another topic about someone asking this same question, so I want to clarify this in case someone accidentally does so. Use the basic animal feed grade for this because the household pesticide is more potent.

    Even after the bed bugs are gone, Perma-guard has other great benefits. Professional gardeners and farmers have long used diatomaceous earth around their crops and livestock. A non-toxic pesticide is hard to find, but it'll be pretty much like a godsend if it works as well as others have stated.

  9. spideyjg

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    Posted 10 years ago
    Wed Dec 17 2008 15:28:45
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  10. spideyjg

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    Posted 10 years ago
    Wed Dec 17 2008 15:33:19
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    DE is an inhalation hazard per the CDC. It can cause silicosis. It is quite safe when used properly but isn't as safe as some make it out to be.

    See this....

    http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npg/npgd0552.html

  11. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 10 years ago
    Wed Dec 17 2008 17:03:38
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    Klaus - 2 hours ago  » 
    By the way, DO NOT give your pets/animals the household pesticide Perma-guard! I read another topic about someone asking this same question, so I want to clarify this in case someone accidentally does so. Use the basic animal feed grade for this because the household pesticide is more potent.

    With respect, I think you may be confusing people further.

    Perma-Guard is a brand of DE and they sell multiple formulations including plain food grade DE, as well as DE with pesticides added (D-20 I believe is the formulation that you are talking about) which should not be fed to anyone or anything.

    I started and run the site but am "not an expert."
  12. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 10 years ago
    Wed Dec 17 2008 17:27:19
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    The fagerlund article referenced above is on this page of his website, under "Controlling Bed Bug Infestations". He actually recommends PT-565 and Tri-die which both have pyrethrins, as well as DE. And then he claims, "You can hire a pest control professional to treat the beds if you prefer, but they will use insecticides."

    If pyrethrins aren't insecticides, I am not sure what they are.

    In fact, many good PCOs use the same products (and some others which may be more effective, given widespread pesticide resistance among bed bugs) and more importantly, experienced ones may know better how and where to apply them.

    If you are going to self-treat, please do your research, and I do not mean just reading the forums.

    I would caution anyone who wishes to self treat with DE: we hear reports from bedbuggers and their PCOs, and it appears to be very common that people do not understand what is meant by a "light dusting" of DE. I hear regularly from PCOs who are eventually called in to treat homes where customers have put down piles of DE, laid it on thick. Perhaps "light dusting" is too vague. it is simply not easy to kill bed bugs and if you put down DE in the wrong places or in the wrong way, they will not walk through it, and they will not die.

    Also, obviously, dust can be dangerous for the lungs if not treated carefully, as Jim notes, and we have heard reports of skin problems brought on by dusts.

    Finally, the best case scenario is: DE takes up to 10 days to kill once bed bugs walk through it. That's the BEST CASE scenario. Many people have problems indefinitely because the bed bugs are simply not going to walk through the DE due to either its location or its application.

  13. surrounded

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    Posted 10 years ago
    Tue Dec 30 2008 12:43:28
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    update on this method:
    about 2 weeks ago we sprayed the bedframe, inside of dresser, behind dresser, moulding, and walls around outlets with the DE/alchohol/soap mixture. At the time i was getting bitten every night. after spraying, the bites worsened for about 5-6 days, and then have ceased. I have one mark on my face that appeared yesterday, but it does not itch at all and I believe it is a reaction to a bite that i had a few weeks ago, it seems to be the same spot. other than that, i am not itchy at all and have no bites in the last week. there have been no spots on the sheets or pillows either. It is much too early to declare victory, but we are definitely making progress. the spray mixture leaves a nice coating of dust after it dries, and it seems a great way to apply it.

  14. Jeanette

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    Posted 10 years ago
    Mon Jan 5 2009 8:57:20
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    Surrounded, I am happy to hear that the DE mixture seems to be working for you.

    Definitely use a dust mask when spraying the mixture. I used a dust mask when spraying the mixture and also left the apartment for a few hours to let the spray "settle" and then opened the patio doors and ventilated the place as best I could.

    Klaus, I hope the spray works for you as well as it did for me. I found it very effective.

    Lyramommy, I wish you success, as well. These creatures really wreak havoc in our lives.

  15. JimmyChanga

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    Posted 10 years ago
    Mon Jan 5 2009 11:22:27
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    Jeanette,

    Thank you for the inspiring story. I was wondering, you mentioned IPM. What does that stand for?

    Also, I had a question about where exactly you sprayed your mixture. Was it along certain routes or just everywhere?

    One last question... I have hardwood floors, do you think the application of the mixture would be different than on carpet? I also have a room with carpetting. Did you just spray it on top of the carpet, or did you pull the carpet up and spray?

    Thank you in advance. I'm still in the beginning stages, I'm not even sure I have BBs, but I've hired a bed bug dog to come sniffing soon.

    ~jimmy.

  16. Jeanette

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    Posted 10 years ago
    Wed Jan 7 2009 16:27:20
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    Jimmy, IPM is the acronym for Integrated Pest Management which includes de-cluttering one's apartment, laundering all clothing, bagging it, etc.

    Regarding where I sprayed the mixture, I sprayed it all over the grey carpetting in my bedroom and hallway and the same carpetting in the living room surrounding my burgundy Oriental rug. I did not life the carpet - I sprayed all over the carpet. I did not spray the Oriental rug because the mixture would leave a greyish residue on it. This residue is not visible on the grey carpetting. I applied a three inch wide layer of DE powder in a rectangle under the Oriental rug.

    I also sprayed in the kitchen behind the fridge and stove and behind cabinets that I could reach. I was careful not to get any of the mixture near my cooking utensils or food items.

    In the dining room, I sprayed a little around the area where the floor meets the walls because I live in an apartment complex and want to prevent new arrivals from adjoining apartments. I did the same thing in the bathroom - sparying a little around the area where the floor meets the walls.

    I have not tried the mixture on hardwood floors so cannot give you a definitive answer. I think it should work. However, be aware that the mixture leaves a greyishy residue (that continues to kill any bugs that come in contact with it) and contains liquid soap so if one steps on the floor with wet feet or slippers, the residue tends to stick to the feet or slippers. I make sure to keep my slippers dry, as far as possible.

  17. wigginonbugs

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    Posted 10 years ago
    Sat Jan 10 2009 2:21:32
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    The alcohol on wood can discolor it-I sprayed my wood tv stand with alcohol one time and it discolored, as well as some finishes on paint. Like the spray paint finish on my bakers rack, so be carefull with that, too, as this mixture has alcohol.

  18. otiliorules

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    Posted 10 years ago
    Sat Jan 10 2009 12:45:22
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    I think that half of the success I have came from all the decluttering of my possessions. I still wish i was completely oblivious to bed bugs but I do have to say, I love the fact that I was able to free myself from being so materialistic.

  19. HateTheseThings

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    Posted 10 years ago
    Wed Jan 21 2009 23:37:29
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    How often do you spray your room with this mixture?

  20. Jeanette

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    Posted 10 years ago
    Thu Jan 22 2009 13:41:09
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    I sprayed the carpet in my bedroom, hallway, and grey carpetting in the living room (not the burgundy rug), only once, very thoroughly, with this mixture, and also spread a thin layer of dry DE powder along the edges of the carpet where it meets the wall, once, and it worked, for me.

    As I mentioned, earlier, I also sprayed along the edges of the wall in my dining area and behind the stove and fridge and cabinets in my kitchen.

    I also prayed a lot and am thankful that I am now bed-bug free for about 7 months. I am still vigilant, however, since I know these are hardy creatures and there just might be a stray bug hibernating in a crevice that can live for upto 18 months, and some other apartments in my building have bedbugs.

  21. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 10 years ago
    Fri Jan 23 2009 1:39:18
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    Jeanette - 11 hours ago  » 
    I am still vigilant, however, since I know these are hardy creatures and there just might be a stray bug hibernating in a crevice that can live for upto 18 months, and some other apartments in my building have bedbugs.

    One of the problems with self-treatment is that the neighbors may have bed bugs.

    I am not sure if this is Jeannette's case, but many people who self-treat never tell the landlord or neighbors of their bed bug problem. Bed bugs may continue to spread to these people (or come to you from them) and this will not go away until the problem is addressed for all tenants in a unified way.

  22. HateTheseThings

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    Posted 10 years ago
    Fri Jan 23 2009 9:10:11
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    Hey Jeanette,
    We live in a single family detached home. When we realized what was biting our 7 year old, we ripped up our rugs. We covered the mattresses in a plastic mattress cover, with the zipper and duct taped the zipper. My husband sprayed the DE powder into crevices and around the baseboard. Then we came upon your website, so we decided to try your method. We only had enough DE for one application...(we have since bought more). But before we did it, we did a really thorough search in the room, and we found a couple..maybe 6 dead bed bugs. Do you think the DE was working even before we sprayed the mixture? I am completely FREAKED out with these things in my house...and we were wondering if the more we spray, the better are chances are? We have removed just about everything from that room other than the beds, and it's my sons room, so my husband is going to sleep in there as bait...but as a maintenance rule...how often do you re-apply? Thanks for all your info. It's definately giving me some reassurance when I feel like my world has been tipped. Oh...also...do you ever steam clean?

  23. Jeanette

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    Posted 10 years ago
    Fri Jan 23 2009 10:59:41
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    As I mentioned in my earlier post (above), I only sprayed, once, thoroughly, and that, together with applying DE powder around the baseboards, killed the bugs, together with the IPM (laundry, getting rid of clutter, checking each cupboard and taping-up crevices, etc). I have left the thin line of DE powder around the perimeter of each room, placing tape over it, so that it seals the space between the carpet and the wall and continues to contain the DE powder. I have not used steam but othes have used it with success.

    Yes, I think the DE powder you applied before spraying, killed some of the bugs. The powder takes longer to work than the spray but it does kill the bugs.

    My landlord has a contract with a pest control company and I have spoken to a few tenants who have been sprayed several times and continue to have some bugs. In view of this, I decided to self-treat, first, and see if that worked, before I asked the landlord to call in the pest control company.

  24. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 10 years ago
    Fri Jan 23 2009 11:33:42
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    Jeanette - 32 minutes ago  » 
    My landlord has a contract with a pest control company and I have spoken to a few tenants who have been sprayed several times and continue to have some bugs. In view of this, I decided to self-treat, first, and see if that worked, before I asked the landlord to call in the pest control company.

    Thanks for clarifying< Jeanette.

    In my understanding, a lot of times, treatments do not work because everyone in the building who has bed bugs is not being treated at the same time.

  25. Jeanette

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    Posted 10 years ago
    Fri Jan 23 2009 13:04:46
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    That makes sense, Nobugsonme, but in order to do so the landlord should ask all tenants to let him know if they have bedbugs and then do a "clean sweep" of them by treating all those who have them at the same time.

    Some of the tenants who have been treated say they have less bugs, but are not completely bug free so I am not sure how good or thorough the pest control company and their pesticides are or whether these people are following protocols suggested by the pest control company.

    At present, the bugs just seem to "scatter" to another apartment. I have spread a thickish layer of DE, a few inches wide, on the rug before my front door as a preventive measure. I have read that the bugs avoid DE when it is layered on too thick. Besides the entire rug has been sprayed with the mixture I made so I am hoping this will prevent any "newcomers".

  26. Praying Newprey

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    Posted 10 years ago
    Tue Mar 10 2009 11:28:37
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    I wanted to ask you Jeannette if you bought a vacuum with a HEPA filter . I'm new to my bedbites and really short of money and wonder if I can succeed with your method without too much expenditure.

  27. spideyjg

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    Posted 10 years ago
    Tue Mar 10 2009 12:00:47
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    Broken record time...

    DE is not 100% safe! See the CDC links above for your safety. Perma guard sells DE and isn't charged with public safety.

    DE is not 100% safe! See the CDC links above for your safety. Perma guard sells DE and isn't charged with public safety.

    DE is not 100% safe! See the CDC links above for your safety. Perma guard sells DE and isn't charged with public safety.

    DE is not 100% safe! See the CDC links above for your safety. Perma guard sells DE and isn't charged with public safety.

    DE is not 100% safe! See the CDC links above for your safety. Perma guard sells DE and isn't charged with public safety.

    DE is not 100% safe! See the CDC links above for your safety. Perma guard sells DE and isn't charged with public safety.

    DE is not 100% safe! See the CDC links above for your safety. Perma guard sells DE and isn't charged with public safety.

    DE is not 100% safe! See the CDC links above for your safety. Perma guard sells DE and isn't charged with public safety.

    DE is not 100% safe! See the CDC links above for your safety. Perma guard sells DE and isn't charged with public safety.

    DE is not 100% safe! See the CDC links above for your safety. Perma guard sells DE and isn't charged with public safety.

    Get the point.

    Jim

  28. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 10 years ago
    Tue Mar 10 2009 13:24:44
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    Jeanette - 1 month ago  » 
    That makes sense, Nobugsonme, but in order to do so the landlord should ask all tenants to let him know if they have bedbugs and then do a "clean sweep" of them by treating all those who have them at the same time.

    Actually, "asking" is never enough. We're told 60%-70% of people may not react to bed bug bites. And we all know how hard it is to detect bed bugs in anything but the more advanced stages of infestation. You can have bed bugs long before you have obvious, in-your-face evidence that someone would trip over.

    You might say that statistically, if multiple people in your building are infested, the odds are some don't have ANY idea. Asking them is not enough. A professional who knows how to search carefully and is willing to take the time needs to search every unit adjacent to an infested unit (adjacent on all sides, above, below).

    Many landlords won't pay for this even if the PCO advises them to. (We hear some change their tune when it becomes super obvious the entire building is becoming infested.) And many PCOs, we hear, don't refuse to treat if the landlord refuses to have them inspected.

  29. needingknowledge

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    Wed Mar 11 2009 20:48:53
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    Hi Jeanette and other folks
    I'm not getting any response to my other post so will respond to this as I now am also cosidering self treatment. I'm a landlord of a 60 unit place in Houston.and a month ago I heard two apartments were infested with "chinches". I sprayed Demon on the advice of a feed store salesperson. Needing to be thrifty as these apartments are losing us money monthly. Now I hear that the infestation is back and it's 3 apartments. They are friends and worker guys from Mexico so the places are messy too.
    I Read all I could on this site and have contacted PCO's and also a pest place that advertises DIY. Terminix "doesn't treat for bedbugs" Orkin sounded knowledgeable but with all the adjacent apts we're talking 10 apartments I'll go broke. I'm loath to put people through all the hassle if I don't know if there is an infestation also I fear a flight of tenants when the word gets around about spraying for bed bugs.
    I got another quote but it sounded fishy. $100 per apt and they use a fogger. Doesn't sound right.
    Anyone have experience with bedlam?
    The DIY guy says he uses pyrethrins and Styrofat?" Also DE but he says it's slow and what your posts were saying about DE is important info.
    I'm really curious about that spray you used jeanette. About how much volume do you estimate per room treated. What kind of sprayer did you use? How fine a spray should it be?
    Also in terms of sealing clean clothes do you think that trash bags(heavy kind) with very tight rubber bands is good enough or maybe duct tape. I hope my questions aren't redundant and now I will visit the Richard Fagerlund article.
    Reading all the posts on this website has made me realise what hell my tenants are going through and even though I am not (yet) being bitten I have had some gnarly bedbug dreams and sleepless nights from worry.

  30. paulaw0919

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    Posted 10 years ago
    Wed Mar 11 2009 21:25:32
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    NeedingKnowledge... I'm so sorry that you have to be here but doing so shows that even though you may be short on funds (and who isn't these days) you are in search for proper treatment options for the welfare of your tenants and for your building.
    I don't know what location your are in and I do know that finding a competent PCO is not easy. Steer clear of the $100 guy...and from the cryonite freezing hype...imo
    Reading posts here and asking questions are a smart thing to do. I do hope that some of our knowledgeable PCO's can shed some insight for you. Being that I am just some one who learned much about bed bugs through experiencing an infestation, the only real advise I can give you is to read over the FAQ's on this site very thoroughly and come to the forums here when you have questions.

    Being that this is a multi-unit building and past DIY seems to only have started to spread the bugs, I would say to search for the most knowledgeable, thorough, experienced PCO that you can. Will it be costly? Most likely. But from what I know of how bed bugs work, if it's not done properly and aggressively it will be much more of a cost and much more of a burden later. IMO, Huge companies have their very good techs as well as not so good ones, and you really never know what you're going to get or how thorough they will be. The FAQ's here also help guide you into choosing a good PCO as well as landlord and tenant rights. I doubt there is state assistance in something of your case or not. Maybe take a look to see? Definitely write your local government about your troubles. I don't think government is that concerned about the spread of bed bugs yet unfortunately but being that it's reached epidemic numbers in certain areas of the country, I don't think they will be turning their heads much longer with all the complaints they have now been getting.

    After you do find a good PCO and do some thorough inspecting, you may find some units that have bed bugs that the tenants didn't know they had a problem...this is because up to 70% of the population do not react to bed bug bites thus don't know there's a problem until infestation levels are very high. You may also find some tenants that may not wish to co-operate in what needs to be done for prep work. This is where a really good, experienced PCO can also do a world of good to help get tenant co-operation and help lead you in the right direction on what options you may have in the problem.

    I am glad you are here, but sorry you have to be. I hear of so many landlords/building owners that just don't give a hoot...It's just soo sad to hear. Families suffering and even worse, bed bugs spreading.
    Again, I hope there are some experts here that can help guide you as well in your battle. Finding the right PCO, taking aggressive action, and then tenant awareness is key. They need to know not to pick up used furnishings, what to look out for in their home, and to know that it's "okay" to let you know about it so action can take place quickly and properly before the infestation grows. Many people never say anyting in fear of getting kicked out, shame etc...
    You will get through this. Best wishes.

  31. paulaw0919

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    Posted 10 years ago
    Wed Mar 11 2009 21:34:20
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    Oh, now thinking..depending on your area...maybe a good knowledgeable traditional PCO treatment coupled with Thermal may be a good option. That along with tenant education..can save you lots of $$ in the long run.

  32. muddy

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    Posted 10 years ago
    Sun Jun 21 2009 19:32:42
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    spideyjg - 3 months ago  » 
    Broken record time...
    DE is not 100% safe! See the CDC links above for your safety. Perma guard sells DE and isn't charged wit
    Get the point.
    Jim

    There are 2 types of DE, which are you referring to then. If it's amorphous DE, it does not give you silicosis and is not dangerous according to all the information I've read.

  33. surrounded

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    Sun Jun 21 2009 20:44:35
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    update:

    since my last post 5 months ago, we were bedbug free for those 5 months. yahoo! that was great. It was definitely the homemade spray that worked in the end, as the PCO did not spray anymore. But I stress that it takes a lot more than simply spraying a bit around your house. You really have to figure out where they might be, how they travel, and take apart and inspect EVERYTHING. and do all the laundry every week, etc etc. But I think that this spray used by Jeanette is great, and if used in conjunction with IPM it can really work.

    In my case they are coming from next door, so I am back. I am moving out. There is a single mother with 3 kids next door, and they have had bugs chronically for nearly 2 years. what a disaster. The landlord is quick to respond with the PCO, but what they really need is education and some HELP, like ripping out their carpeting and caulking the place up, etc. I have given them some info, and resource links, etc. but I am not hopeful and I just need to LEAVE.

    When this problem resurfaced about a month ago, I immediately mixed up some more spray and re-sprayed everything. The bites dropped off, but i noticed the dog was itching a lot. The spray on the bed legs may be too thick, and the bugs may have decided to bite her rather than crawl onto the bed. In any case the bedroom is so booby-trapped with DE that they wont last long. But if another one just comes in from next door.....

    In any case the PCO came after that, and now i am planning my move. I have my moving plans posted in another thread, please critique!

  34. lil_bit_obsessed

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    Sun Jun 21 2009 20:58:30
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    surrounded, i'm glad to hear the spray worked for you!

    how much DE do you use in it? and when the spray dries, does the DE dry up again like a dust, or does it stay where you have sprayed it?

    i'm very curious about this approach. when i used DE two years ago i found that it made me cough quite a bit, and i had to use a dust mask. i understand that it can be dangerous to inhale, and i'm just wondering whether the inhalation risk might be reduced by applying it in a liquid spray instead?

  35. surrounded

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    Sun Jun 21 2009 21:27:32
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    The liquid spray is a great delivery method. after it dries, it stays put. if you run your finger across it, it will come off on your finger, but only if you wipe it. I think the soap factor keeps it adhered.

    I use as much DE as i can get to suspend. so i just keep adding DE slowly, mixing and adding more. i probably use about a half cup at least. hard to say. A LOT.

  36. muddy

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    Mon Jun 22 2009 10:59:44
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    Inspired by Jeanette I laid down some liquid DE today. The only thing is I couldn't spray as it kept up the nozzle, so I painted it on instead. Much better than blowing dry DE as it keeps from making polluting the air, at least relatively. It also helps to see the clear strips where its painted down.

    I live in hope. At least it's getting me to clear out my junk and try to minimize my possessions, something I've been meaning to do for a long time. My biggest worry is taking them with me again when i move in the next month.

  37. spideyjg

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    Mon Jun 22 2009 11:11:25
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    muddy - 15 hours ago  » 

    spideyjg - 3 months ago  » 
    Broken record time...
    DE is not 100% safe! See the CDC links above for your safety. Perma guard sells DE and isn't charged wit
    Get the point.
    Jim

    There are 2 types of DE, which are you referring to then. If it's amorphous DE, it does not give you silicosis and is not dangerous according to all the information I've read.

    The CDC doesn't differentiate and if somewbody can explain why a fossil of a freshwater diatom is less hazardous than a fossil of a saltwater diatom I'd be stunned.

    Some DE is heat processed to increase the crystalline silica. There is no safe DE when it comes to the inhalation hazard factor. There is bad and there is worse. Precautions should be taken to avoid inhaling it.

    Don't spread it where it can get airborne and wear a P-100 respirator.

    Jim

  38. buggyinsocal

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    Mon Jun 22 2009 12:00:12
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    And the article that I have found that talks about the amorphous vs. crystalline silicas issue says, well before it points out that amorphous silicas do not seem to present an inhalation hazard, that in order to study that they had to synthesize amorphous silicas in the lab, because any amorphous silicas that they bought were so contaminated with crystalline silicas as to be useless for the study.

    I'm sure Spideyjg and I would agree that if you're up to synthesizing from scratch pure grade amorphous silicas in your own private lab, we're pretty sure you're in that small group of people who possesses the full skill set to be likely to follow all safety procedures when handling any substance, so we're not going to worry about you.

    But since everyone I have ever seen post about DE on these boards has bought his or her DE commercially, even if you're buying amorphous DE, you're buying something that is likely to be contaminated with the crystalline kind, which is the kind that causes inhalation hazards.

    (I'm also personally curious why so many people are so distrustful of the possibility that a PCO here is telling the truth but is perfectly willing to believe a website selling DE that that DE is 100% amorphous not crystalline DE. But that's another story for another day, I suppose.)

    If you'd like a link to the article in question, here you go:

    http://www.springerlink.com/content/2qwuhntutubkc1kf/

    And yes, I looked, it's a recent article as peer reviewed stuff goes. It was published in 2002, which given the timeline for scholarly publication is pretty darned recent.

  39. spideyjg

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    Mon Jun 22 2009 14:34:19
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    Exactamundo Buggy! There is no way short of you having a lab and the expertise to ensure that what you have has low crystalline content. You cannot undo the inhalation.

    I don't know why people have such an aversion to following a simple $15-$30 safety precaution.

    Jim

  40. muddy

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    Mon Jun 22 2009 16:18:04
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    I think people will take notice if something is fully explained to them. I don't tend to respond to anyone telling me not to do something without some sort of explanation. Maybe that's why you've not been taken notice of. My guess is that most peole here are adults, they're not going to respond to being patronised.

    That said, I've taken note of your warnings and thank you for highlighting the risks. I've been using an FFP3 mask and tried not to too much in my lungs. I've not been entirely successful here though I've certainly noticed it effect my breathing. The DE I've bought is said to contain no more than 1.5% crystalline silcate and I need to trust that that's the case and I'm not risking my health with a dangerous product. I know there's no way of knowing that for sure and I'm taking a risk, but without taking that risk I'm going to be stuck with this goddamn problem and so I take the risk.

  41. boobersnap

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    Mon Aug 24 2009 21:09:18
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    As far as I can tell, nobody has offered an answer to 'what kind of sprayer' is used for the "The liquid spray".
    Thanks…

  42. (deleted)

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    Wed Aug 26 2009 9:10:23
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    Hi Jeanette,
    Thank-you for sharing this wonderful story with us. I am ready to go out to buy some of the items on your recommended list including the amazing spray. Please tell me what type of tape you used in your cabinets. Did you also use tape around the baseboards too and if so what type of tape? And thanks be to God for guiding you through this stressful time.
    Namaste,
    Judy

  43. spideyjg

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    Wed Aug 26 2009 13:23:44
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    Sealing is better accomplished with caulks and foams than any kind of tape.

    Jim

  44. (deleted)

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    Wed Aug 26 2009 14:43:54
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    Thanks Jim. I will try my hands at another new skill. I just dusted my daughter's room periphery, and then put new quarter rounds up where they were missing. Now I'm going to caulk the periphery. and then spray with the magic formula. Oh things seem to get me down and then I get new hope and rally to do more warfare.

    What do you think about my situation? I own an old "triplex". I live in the top two floors and I rent the main and the basement apartments. If I do everything to destroy the BB's including decluttering, the spray and making it impossibe to get to my bed....will they move downstairs? I haven't told my tenants yet but i did hire a pest control fellow to evaluate with his sniffer dog. There was nothing on the first floor or basement...all he caught was a VERY MILD hint in my third floor bedroom on one side of the bed. He didn't recommend spraying so I have continued working on the place. My only limit is the fact that I work full time and there are only so many hours in the day or night to do the job well.

    I would love to hear your opinion.

    Thanks for your time,
    Judy

  45. (deleted)

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    Thu Aug 27 2009 16:02:42
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    Hi Jeanette,
    I was having trouble deciding on how much D. Earth I should add to the alcohol/water/soap mixture. I kept adding more and more and it didn't get "black". It remained a beige colour. Then after about three cups of D.E. to one cup of alcohol, one cup water, 1/2 cup dish soap, I filled a spray bottle. When I pumped the handle, nothing came out! So I panicked and went to Home Depot and bought three more sprayers hoping that one would work. I haven't tried them yet because by the time I looked at the concoction again, it had shrunk significantly!! I guess the alcohol evaporated. I really felt badly cause I didn't know whether to add more alcohol or just throw it out and start again.

    PS. is there anyone in Toronto who would like to correspond about Toronto PCO's? I used Purity's K9 unit but has anyone used their PCO's? I have already spent over a thousand dollars and I haven't even had the house sprayed. I would love to know your experience with PCO's.

  46. Nobugsonme

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    Fri Aug 28 2009 1:01:20
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    Kirshenblat - 8 hours ago  » 
    PS. is there anyone in Toronto who would like to correspond about Toronto PCO's? I used Purity's K9 unit but has anyone used their PCO's? I have already spent over a thousand dollars and I haven't even had the house sprayed. I would love to know your experience with PCO's.

    You may have more luck in a new thread, since people in TO may not be reading this.

    Start by reading these, and you can add to them or start a new one:
    http://bedbugger.com/forum/tags/toronto-pcos

  47. gregkala

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    Posted 9 years ago
    Sun Oct 25 2009 11:33:50
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    Hi all, I'm new to the forums as a sublet seems to have brought bedbugs into my apartment. Hooray!
    It seems that the first post detailing Jeanette's steps is missing from this thread, anyone have the steps? Thanks all!

  48. watkinsnewan

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    Sun Oct 25 2009 12:17:28
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    gregkala This is not the step you want to take there are many dangers when working with DE!! If you start a NEW THREAD and introduce yourself and let the elders in here know your situation than they can give you some Advice!! otherwise Please read DE dangers above in search box!! That search box was A life saver for me!!

  49. bug_off

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    Sun Jan 31 2010 8:17:30
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    Hi folks, I can't seem to see the start of this thread, what was the mixture?

  50. wchicago

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    Mon Feb 1 2010 16:43:28
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    hi

    this recipe was from a fagerlund article. i haven't used, it, but some folks on this board have and seemed to like it/think it was effective

    Make a mixture of approximately 40 percent water, 40 percent alcohol and 20 percent dish soap. Then mix as much diatomaceous earth in water as will become suspended.

    article here:
    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/04/28/HOG27PEHTJ1.DTL&hw=bedbugs&sn=003&sc=380

    best of luck to you!!!

  51. BuggedOutInCT

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    Wed Feb 3 2010 8:54:56
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    I'm new here, so maybe I have not learned how to read the Forums correctly. But I do not see any kind of success story posted. The first post in this topic is "Thank you, Dottie" etc. Is the original post not shown due to a cut-off date, being archived, posts over a certain age not shown, 50-reply limit, etc?

    Also seems to mostly be about DE; I have difficulty believing DE alone could end an infestation, even with all the other tactics (dryer-treating and sealing clothes, vacuuming, etc.). Can anyone guide me to the original Steps Taken to arrive at the Four Months Bite Free mark?

    My bites started around Christmas (ironic, yes) and I'm in the midst of the fray right now. I'm also allergic, so the bites aren't just annoying: without immediate and continual topical cortisone treatment they grow to the size of a quarter, are incredibly itchy, etc. Will post my sad story on the newcomers page.

  52. Jeanette

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    Fri Mar 12 2010 20:20:18
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    Hi BuggedOutinCT and others who have asked some questions regarding the steps I took to get rid of the bedbugs that I had almost two years ago.

    By the grace of God, I am still bedbug free though I still live in the same apartment. I waited to be sure I was bedbug free before moving, knowing a stray bug could live without "food" for upto 18 months. I am moving in June.

    Judy, regarding the type of tape I used in my cabinets: After emptying each cabinet and examining it closely, I used wide transparent sticky tape so that it seals the gaps but does not look ugly. The type one uses to seal boxes when packing to move. I used wide grey masking tape around the baseboards.

    I have not visited this site in a long time, but thought I would check it out today and see if I could answer any questions about my story. So here goes for those who want to read the steps I took to get rid of the bed bugs.

    "I had a mild infestation of bedbugs and went through a lot of stress, fear, despair, hard work, prayer and finally hope, and it looks like success. I would like to share my success story with you and your readers. I read tips on your website and other related websites and learned a lot on how to deal with this awful problem and am very grateful to be bug free for four months. I would like to help others with my experience.

    I got rid of my box spring and bed frame but kept my mattress since the material is such that the bugs cannot get into it. I also checked my mattress seams very carefully and vacuumed it thoroughly. It had no signs of bed bugs, larvae, etc. The bugs were hiding in the bed-skirt between my mattress and box spring. I caught them around 4:00 am one morning when getting bitten and put the bed linen in the tub in hot water right away. The next day I threw out the bed skirt and bed linen after washing and drying it on a high heat setting.

    I bought a new box spring and bed frame and encased both the box spring and mattress in vinyl covers and placed the bed frame feet in metal bowls of mineral oil. In this way, I isolated my bed. I take a shower before going to bed each night to make sure not to contaminate my bed, accidentally.
    I have put double-sided carpet tape in a rectangle-shape on my bedroom ceiling, over my bed, as recommended on one website, to prevent any surviving, starving bedbugs from dropping onto my bed from above.

    I checked the Internet and learnt about IPM and started de-cluttering my apartment and doing laundry, bagging it, and am storing the bags in the trunk of my car. It was summer when this problem started and if, perchance, a bug happened to get into the clean laundry, the heat in the trunk of the car would definitely kill it.

    I only kept a few Extra-large Ziploc bags of clothes in current use on a table in my living room, the legs of which I taped with double sided sticky tape as a double-precaution.
    I checked all my closets and cabinets and taped all crevices between the shelves and the closet structure.

    Then I proceeded to kill the bugs using a spray, following the advice in an article by Richard Fagerlund who is a board-certified entomologist and whose website is http://www.askthebugman.com. The article on the Internet suggested making a mixture of approximately 40 percent water, 40 percent rubbing alcohol (preferably ethyl alcohol) and 20 percent dish soap and as much food-grade diatomaceous earth in water as will become suspended.
    I used Chemfree Insectigone Crawling Insect Killer which contains 80% amorphous diatomaceous earth along with the ethyl alcohol, liquid soap, and water and sprayed the entire carpet area in my small apartment. I also sprayed behind the fridge and stove and other areas in the kitchen like between the cabinet and fridge, i.e., anywhere where the bed bugs could hide but not where I kept my dishes and foodstuff. I was very careful, using a dust-mask while spraying and leaving the appartment after spraying to let the stuff settle down and then I would open the patio door to let in fresh air. I also spread the Chemfree Insectigone Crawling Insect Killer along the edges of the carpet and some other areas.

    I prayed a lot as I believe in the efficacy of prayer. I do what I need to do and then leave the outcome to God. So far, it has been four months since I am free from bug-bites and it feels good. However, I know these creatures are hardy and can survive for up to 18 months hence I have not yet put my clothes back into the drawers but am considering doing that soon, after first spraying the underside of all the drawers with the mixture I described earlier. That is what the article suggested.
    I am so relieved to be bug-free, as far as I can tell. However, it is a harrowing experience that one cannot share with others for fear of being treated like a social pariah. As well, my apartment has shoes, books, clothes, etc, in Ziploc bags and is not my usual comfy home space, at present. I cannot invite anyone to my place not only because of how it looks but because of the likelihood of a lurking bed bug that might get into their clothes.

    However, I am very grateful to be able to get a good night’s sleep without fear of being bitten, watch TV or read a book on my couch, use my desk and PC, and cook and eat a meal without getting bitten. Under the circumstances, I am leading a pretty normal life and have regained my peace of mind.
    I hope some of your readers can benefit from my experience."

  53. Nobugsonme

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    Sat Mar 13 2010 3:03:47
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    Jeanette, FYI: the little pound sign after the date and time stamp on each post is a permalink. You can use it to link to any post here, rather than cutting and pasting the content.

  54. yelunatic

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    Sun Apr 11 2010 21:49:30
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    I read the original article and I am confused. It seems that there are 2 seperate mixtures. One was the water, alcohol and soap mixture and the other was just water will DE. Am I correct? Did you use a combination of both?

    Also, I can't seem to find the chemfree product online. Any help would be appreciated.

  55. Newbie

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    Sun Apr 24 2011 0:07:13
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    Yelunatic,

    Chemfree Insectigone can be found online here: http://www.valleyindoor.com/product.php?productid=647

    I'm in Toronto, Canada and it's hard to find ethyl alcohol. Can someone tell me where to buy it in the states or online?

  56. 91RubbingAlcohol

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    surrounded - 2 years ago  » 
    The liquid spray is a great delivery method. after it dries, it stays put. if you run your finger across it, it will come off on your finger, but only if you wipe it. I think the soap factor keeps it adhered.

    I use as much DE as i can get to suspend. so i just keep adding DE slowly, mixing and adding more. i probably use about a half cup at least. hard to say. A LOT.


    What is this mixture you speak of, what is it composed of, in what ratios, etc.?

  57. makesmenuts

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    Mon Oct 17 2011 12:59:56
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    I don't see the formula here, but it sounds odd. Doesn't water render DE useless for fighting BBs?

  58. AshamedandScratching

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    Mon Oct 17 2011 13:04:18
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    It's in some of Jeannette's later posts and someone else links the article.

    approximately 40 percent water, 40 percent rubbing alcohol (preferably ethyl alcohol) and 20 percent dish soap and as much food-grade diatomaceous earth in water as will become suspended.

    I can't vouch for this as I didn't try it.

  59. makesmenuts

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    Hmmm, I'm far from an expert, but it sounds like just mixing together a bunch of ingredients that work fine on their own, and I'd be worried about the DE's residual effectiveness after being in liquid because I could swear I read that water ruins it.

    The main ingredient in dish soap is already a main ingredient in many "natural" contact killers. There's a bunch of it in the Rest Easy I use, and I use DE on its own too. I'd just use the ingredients separately rather than making a "magic mixture."

  60. Chicago Way

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    makesmenuts - 1 month ago  » 
    Hmmm, I'm far from an expert, but it sounds like just mixing together a bunch of ingredients that work fine on their own, and I'd be worried about the DE's residual effectiveness after being in liquid because I could swear I read that water ruins it.

    I know this thread is a month old, but this is my understanding as well. I do not understand why Mr. Fagerlund suggests this, but I don't understand Mr. Fagerlund's views on several bug bed matters.

    Everclear is a source, albeit expensive, of ethyl alcohol. Although supposedly illegal in Chicago, I purchased some locally to make lemoncello (not for bedbugs). Unfortunately it went down the drain with much of my liquor when i moved.


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