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Disclosure, disclosure signatures, agenda pushing and civility

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  1. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Tue May 12 2015 15:52:26
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    This is a long post but it covers a lot of ground and I hope it will open a helpful dialogue. First, I want to express my continued appreciation for the experts and pros who post here and all of the help they give others.

    I have started a new thread to discuss the issues of disclosure which are off-topic in this thread ("How reliable is Bed Bug Blue"?).

    I will comment generally about the use of signatures and disclosure from pros. Normally I would discuss someone's signature disclosure off the forums but since questions about a poster's signature have been raised in the other thread, so I will respond to that here.

    Finally, I want to comment on agenda-pushing and on some of the uncivil behavior which also popped up in this thread and others.

    David's signature and disclosures

    A discussion of David's signature came up in the thread mentioned above.

    First, While I do think David's current signature is a big improvement over the prior one, I agree that there are a few aspects which may cause confusion and I would recommend some small changes to add clarity.

    Richard asked about David's signature:

    Richard56 - 1 day ago  » 
    And don't you think in fairness to the discussion that you should disclose your business relationship with the maker of Bed Bug Blue?

    bed-bugscouk - 1 day ago  » 

    Look up, you will see that I have already done so in my sig line.

    While it's true that a relationship with Packtite is disclosed, Packtite is not the manufacturer of Bed Bug Blue, and readers may not be aware that David James (who owns Packtite) is also one of the owners of the company which makes Bed Bug Blue.

    David's signature reads:

    In accordance with the AUP and FTC (legal requirements) I openly disclose my vested interest in Passive Monitors as the inventor and patent holder. Since 2009 they have become an integral part in how we resolve bedbug infestations in domestic and commercial settings. The patent numbers are GB2463953 and GB2470307.

    I also have a professional relationship with PackTite in that they distribute my product under their own branding. I do not however receive any financial remuneration for comments I make about products which are all offered because of their technical merits.

    David's passive monitor products are marketed currently as either BBAlert Passive Monitors or Packtite Passive Monitors. I do think the other names under which the product is being told (besides Packtite) should be mentioned, since users otherwise won't necessarily know which passive monitors you're talking about, and they may not know the BBAlert Passive is also your product. If the product is being marketed somewhere solely as "Passive Monitors" then there would be a third mention of this, and so on. I am happy to help suggest possible wording off-thread if it helps.

    I would also add something like "(The owner of PackTite is also one of the owners of the company that makes Bed Bug Blue.)" I would suggest this go before the final sentence above.

    Disclosing on a case by case basis vs. signatures

    KillerQueen asked about whether disclosure should be in every signature:

    KillerQueen - 1 day ago  » 
    And disclosure should be a constant in a signature not just when you want to put it there. [uncivil comment deleted by admin]
    It's misleading and should be corrected.
    Nobugs - A little clarity please.

    I think KQ is asking whether a pro user should disclose every relationship every time they include their signature? (Please correct me if you meant something else, KQ.)

    My answer would be not necessarily.

    For example, if Paul is talking about Nuvan Prostrips (or a competing product), he should disclose that professional relationship. But if the thread is about DDVP, he doesn't need to also disclose his relationship with Mattress Safe in that post/thread, unless there's some connection I'm unaware of between the two, or unless the thread goes on to discuss encasements, and so on.

    The problem becomes if one is talking about a product or service one has a relationship with and forgets to add the relevant disclosure to that post. It's easy to do this and so most people probably would prefer to include the disclosures in signatures to avoid that issue.

    Agenda-pushing and civility

    One issue which comes up in terms of agenda is promoting one's products or services or those of business associates.

    We have a fine line in some cases between pros talking about what you do to treat bed bugs and advertising your products or methods. This is especially a problem for David, I think, because he has invented a monitoring product (that he actually uses in his work) and he also uses and recommends some products made by David James (who also owns Packtite, which distributes David's monitor).

    I am not going to say David can't ever suggest his monitoring device as an option, because he uses it and it would be absurd to tell someone who uses a product that they can't mention it. Instead, he needs to be cautious about not turning posts into ads, and in the case of Bed Bug Blue and other products, that relationships are disclosed.

    That's not the only type of agenda we have to be concerned about here, however. Agenda-pushing, whether it's trying to sell a product, or trying to gang up on someone you don't agree with, is not a helpful thing for other forum users.

    I also have some concerns about the lack of civility in the thread referenced above. In some cases, uncivil comments have been deleted from posts by Richard, David and KillerQueen.

    If someone's posts violate forum rules, please flag them. Beyond that, everyone should also take a step back and examine their own agendas and behavior.

    I tend to give others the benefit of the doubt. If something seems off, ask a question, rather than making an attack. Give the person the chance to respond. If they don't, ask politely again. It really is more effective and helpful for others than simply attacking.

    And I am saying this to everyone now, but especially to the male deer types who are butting antlers:

    You don't need to sling mud or try to make others look bad in order to expose a poor argument. Try to remember that other users are going to be as intelligent as you are (believe it or not), so asking clarifying questions politely and allowing for a response really can be more enlightening and helpful all around.

    If someone is saying something which is incorrect or which they can't back up, it can be exposed without you yourself acting like a jerk to other posters. You come out looking shiny and clean and your enemy is vanquished. Trust me!

    Revisiting the forum rules

    Finally, enforcing rules is not as easy as some might think and it helps if the rules make sense and are clear to all.

    If you feel the forum rules should be changed or could be improved or clarified in order to help avoid any of the issues above, I am open to suggestions. For your reference, I am quoting the rules regarding pros and disclosure in full below:

    Policy on commercial and promotional activity

    If you're a bed bug industry professional who sells bed bug supplies, offers bed bug treatment, or runs a bed bug information website, please do not use the forums for promotional purposes. The site runs ads, and you can find out more about this here.

    If the main purpose of your post in a thread is to drive traffic to your website or advertise your business, it's a form of spam. This pattern will generally be more transparent to others than you may think, and can lead to being banned.

    Please do not link to your own website(s) in your posts. You may link to your website from your username. (Use the space in your profile for a URL.) The exception would be if you run a non-commercial bed bug-related website and are judiciously referring to and linking to specific articles on your site that are relevant to the thread.

    If you are in the bed bug industry, please do not put your phone number or address in posts. You may include your real name, and readers can find your website by clicking your username.

    Disclosure of relationships

    If you post about a product or service, you must disclose your financial connection to the firm or any freebies you've gotten (or other compensation) from the firm or their competitors. This includes professionals who have been paid to be involved in product development or testing, or who have done work for a company in the past. If you're not sure, it's probably best to err on the side of disclosing. This applies to consumers and professionals alike, according to FTC rules regarding endorsements implemented in 2009 which cover forum posts and blog posts and comments (some information on this here).

    Thanks for taking the time to read this and thanks for your thoughtful and civilly-expressed input below.

    I started and run the site but am "not an expert."
  2. Winston O. Buggy

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Tue May 12 2015 20:16:25
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    I applaud your efforts to keep things peaceful and professional at the playground. For the record I am not connected with any product and have not promoted or mentioned any firm I may be associated with.

  3. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Tue May 12 2015 20:31:20
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    Winston O. Buggy - 14 minutes ago  » 
    I applaud your efforts to keep things peaceful and professional at the playground. For the record I am not connected with any product and have not promoted or mentioned any firm I may be associated with.

    Thanks, Winston!

    I appreciate your conscientiousness about this.

  4. ItsJustABug

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Wed May 13 2015 10:15:58
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    Point A to point B, OP thread to the question of disclosure.
    All of that from this: OP asking due to maybe they have not got enough black stuff on the test pad. The question could have been how much black stuff is needed to get a result. with ID pic's attached.
    The reply was:

    Hi,

    In my experience its 100% reliable.

    Having checked the images I can confirm its not faecal as the appearance is wrong.

    Hope that helps.

    David Cain
    Bed Bugs Limited


    Then a decisions & up comes the issues of disclosure .

    I submit: it is this easy to be misleading without intention or disclosure.

    Richard 56
    I stand by my statement that Bed Bug Blue, like other presumptive blood tests, is prone to false positives. Please show studies/evidence (not your experience) to the contrary.

    And the example you use, "hemastiix" is a bad one. The test that I and other pro's here have spoken favorably about is not hematix but the phenolphthalein presumptive blood test (Kastle Meyer).

    And don't you think in fairness to the discussion that you should disclose your business relationship with the maker of Bed Bug Blue?

    What about disclosure of the non pro status as well if a non pro is going to put forth info on products as what appears to be advice & debate professionals by monitoring every word in there statements, even if it clearly said "In my experience"
    What about increasingly debating issues in threads when clearly out of respect for the OP & rules should at some point see ( its now become a debate) to start a new thread.

    This OP did not start the thread for a discussion on BBBlue in the manner it was addressed, but in a request question to figure out if they had a operator failure in testing. Maybe the OP's question should have been how much suspect fecal is needed on test pad to get a reliable test result?
    But they were soon ignored & debate ensued by all parties until Nobugs moved it here.
    Maybe there needs to be a flat out titled debate any subject category. A free for all bedbuggers man cave .
    Since no test is 100% , not DNA, not pregnancy, not BBBlue when there is room for human error by the tester use of said items its like KQ states nothing is 100%. That doesn't mean it isn't a useful tool.
    Disclosure is needed when one appears to have an agenda & appears it could be fueled by other agenda's on a pro and none pro basis alike because the common members & visitors all lose help in the scuffle that ensues. Criminal research shows they all have a % of failure rate if you look at blood testing methods.

  5. Winston O. Buggy

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Wed May 13 2015 10:47:42
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    With all due respect to junior member its just a bug, I think we all have a pretty good idea what we are talking about. I only mention the jr member part as this blog has been here some eight years and this is not the first time this or an allied issue has raised its head, items a new comer would not be aware of. Fact is that a number of "experts"come with strong personalities as well as ego's and when you get a bunch of them together in a room, blog or elsewhere they sometimes step on toes or try to out shout the other. NB is trying to keep things orderly and respectful especially among those who have important input but not at the expense of others. For those who contribute and are affiliated with or have economic interests it is best they disclose that in some type of organized manner least there be an appearance of impropriety which I am sure was not intended by anyone. So lets not trip over the details of this one particular post but look forward to a brighter and better bedbugger.com

  6. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Wed May 13 2015 11:06:00
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    Hi Itsjustabug,

    Thanks for your comments!

    ItsJustABug - 10 minutes ago  » 
    This OP did not start the thread for a discussion on BBBlue in the manner it was addressed, but in a request question to figure out if they had a operator failure in testing. Maybe the OP's question should have been how much suspect fecal is needed on test pad to get a reliable test result?
    But they were soon ignored & debate ensued by all parties until Nobugs moved it here.

    First, just to be clear, the purpose of this thread is not to "move the debate here". I did need to respond both to direct questions which arose in the thread and some of the issues I saw happening.

    Also, to be fair, David, the first respondant, did offer a response to the OP and Richard's subsequent response was a response to David's and to the OP. I don't think it's true the poster was completely ignored. I also think that there were some issues which arose in the thread which do need to be addressed-- like disclosures which are relevant when recommending a product, as well as the agenda-pushing and civility issues which are coming up in other threads as well.

    If your point is that the whole conversation shouldn't have happened, well-- that's easy to say when it wasn't a debate you were part of. However, most of us have been part of derailing a conversation in this way ourselves at some time.

    As I said, I try to give others the benefit of the doubt and I truly think all parties involved mean well.

    Maybe there needs to be a flat out titled debate any subject category. A free for all bedbuggers man cave .

    I think that would be problematic because the thread would quickly be 5 pages long and no one could follow what the topic was if every argument were included.

    However, I am toying with the idea of having "official industry thread on fecal stain testing," "official industry thread on passive monitors", "official industry thread on encasements", etc. threads. These could be collected in a list within a single green sticky, to avoid adding lots of green stickies, but also still allowing us all to direct people there easily.

    In fact, we already did this "official industry thread" thing once before.

    A long, long, time ago, about the only controversy here was canine scent detection. (I know, can you believe it?!?) It was in its early days, and there were a lot of kinks to be worked out -- even mores than today.

    So the k9 chatter was constantly blowing up into big dramas. Someone would say "how do I know if I have bed bugs?" Someone would respond, "get a k9 inspection," and suddenly, the eight billionth thread would turn into pros and cons and ins and outs of k9 inspections. And many of these contentious threads became highly uncivil.

    And so you know what we did? We started an "official" k9 industry thread, which was a green sticky.

    The first post gives you an idea of what we had in mind:

    Nobugsonme - 5 years ago  » 
    This thread is for discussion of the bed bug k9 industry including various training approaches, trainers, certification, etc.

    It is not a thread for talking about specific bed bug k9 services.

    If you are a consumer, this is not the thread to ask for recommendations about bed bug k9s. Instead, start a new thread (tag it "bed bug k9s").

    This is a space for people to discuss the bed bug k9 industry. This is a topic which has consumed many other threads which started out on other topics, and I think it is important that a dedicated space be provided, so people can be sent here rather than diverting other discussions.

    Since this topic seems to bring up a lot of conflict on the forums, I hope this is a solution both for those who want to discuss the bed bug k9 industry and those who don't!

    If you are on another thread and want to engage in debates about trainers, methods, and certification for bed bug k9s, please move it here. (Bookmark this thread if you are in the industry.)
    Feel free to say, "let's go to the *Official* bed bug k9 industry thread!" before someone else does. That way, we can keep other threads on topic.

    Rules: please be civil to people you do not agree with, and respect their differing viewpoints. Your cooperation is much appreciated.

    What this did was allow us to respond to any poster's questions in a reasonable manner, without diverting the thread into a debate on whether or not people should even use k9s, whether they're effective, etc. If it looked like a debate were going to start up, any poster could say, "please take this to the official k9 industry thread in the stickies" and the debate part of the conversation -- anything that people felt they needed to say but which would divert the thread at hand -- could go there.

    I took the k9 industry green sticky down last year because it had been silent for a long time. The need for debating k9 scent detection died out more or less once all of the pros and experts here more or less came in on the side of visual confirmation for dog alerts. (It's nice we can all agree on some things, right?)

    I am inclined to try again for some other "bones of contention". One complaint I hear is that the same arguments come up time and again. Putting a specific type of argument in one place would mean experts and others with opinions on specific issues don't have to keep having the same discussion all over the forums, but can have them in one place (hopefully once). And OPs won't have to wade through convoluted discussions which reach far beyond their own interest and needs.

    I welcome input on extending this "official industry thread" idea!

    Disclosure is needed when one appears to have an agenda & appears it could be fueled by other agenda's on a pro and none pro basis alike because the common members & visitors all lose help in the scuffle that ensues.

    Non-pros can certainly have an agenda, which is why I mentioned "agenda pushing" taking multiple forms and did not attribute it specifically to pros.

    I think your concern addressed by my comments above:

    One issue which comes up in terms of agenda is promoting one's products or services or those of business associates... [snip]

    That's not the only type of agenda we have to be concerned about here, however. Agenda-pushing, whether it's trying to sell a product, or trying to gang up on someone you don't agree with, is not a helpful thing for other forum users.

    [snip]

    If someone's posts violate forum rules, please flag them. Beyond that, everyone should also take a step back and examine their own agendas and behavior.

    I tend to give others the benefit of the doubt. If something seems off, ask a question, rather than making an attack. Give the person the chance to respond. If they don't, ask politely again. It really is more effective and helpful for others than simply attacking.

  7. ItsJustABug

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Wed May 13 2015 12:21:44
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    I made a attempt to inject some missed points on the entirety of the other thread as seen by common readers not knowing who is who .An some having a debate agenda.
    This statement by Richard could also be miss leading to OP & newbies as stating him self a pro depending on perception, perception is reality in many cases.The underline part would seemingly put him in the same group with pro's so should there not be some disclosure for any one debating a pro as a pro or non pro?
    I am on topic just not the political topic of the pro disclosure. Don't get me wrong Richard is highly intelligent & educated & able to stand his ground ,the point is should the new comers & OP not be informed who is who just as required when a none pro makes a known ID.

    Richard56
    The test that I and other pro's here have spoken favorably about is not hematix but the phenolphthalein presumptive blood test (Kastle Meyer).

    If it had been a green sticky, I would not have had a thing to say there.

    That might eliminate the need of non pro's to disclose them self as such & openly debate knowledge with the experts. But doing such in someones thread is different , when debating with experts they give the impression they are equals on the subject of bedbugs & bedbug products and poster then hold their every word as professional or is it just my opinion they should disclose their credentials to challenge a pro in a manner such on some one's thread.
    And to Winston I understand more then you may think, I have not been here years & I have read years of back post's by all of you . But I an not the type to go mind the children because the men are talking . I've lived my entire life in mans ego world ,its kinda hard to find a place with out it actually.But thanks for the words of wisdom.

    For those who contribute and are affiliated with or have economic interests it is best they disclose that in some type of organized manner least there be an appearance of impropriety which I am sure was not intended by anyone. So lets not trip over the details of this one particular post but look forward to a brighter and better bedbugger.com

    It is details that started the entire trip, details of disclosure & why doesn't David just put the connection to BBBlue & Packtite & all the other products All together on his signature ..
    I understand more then you may think I do.

  8. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Wed May 13 2015 13:08:31
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    ItsJustABug - 38 minutes ago  » 
    as required when a none pro makes a known ID.

    Richard56
    The test that I and other pro's here have spoken favorably about is not hematix but the phenolphthalein presumptive blood test (Kastle Meyer).

    Itsjustabug,

    I agree the phrasing "I and other pros here" is misleading. I did not notice it in the thread not in scanning to find it just now. Perhaps you can flag it so I can take a look? Thanks! (Okay--- I now see it: http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/how-reliable-is-bed-bug-blue#post-223630 ).

    I don't agree that non-pros shouldn't debate pros. There can be valid reasons for doing this.

    It is details that started the entire trip, details of disclosure & why doesn't David just put the connection to BBBlue & Packtite & all the other products All together on his signature ..

    Again, if you read my original post, it is a bit broader than all this.

  9. ItsJustABug

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Wed May 13 2015 13:53:38
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    Nobugs ,

    I don't agree that non-pros shouldn't debate pros. There can be valid reasons for doing this.

    I didn't say they shouldn't debate pro's actually I agree with you., I said the debate shouldn't be miss leading to new comers in a thread such OP's thread , my opinion is there should be some non pro disclosure as well when challenging a pro's expertise in some one else thread, the miss leading phrase is unintentional I am sure.
    Any way you got my point & I thank you for allowing me to make it here under disclosure topic.
    Again, if you read my original post, it is a bit broader than all this.

    Yes and trust me I do understand all that is involved, I just tried to keep my post short for the sake of everyone.
    Now I'll not hold up the political disclosure topic here any longer. Thank you Nobugs

  10. Chansey

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    Wed May 13 2015 14:39:31
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    May I just say that it's very discouraging to me, as a new member, to come onto these forums to read for advice, to find new avenues of dealing with this pest problem, and to encounter basically what reads as a contest of "see whose steam vac is bigger." (I tried to keep that G-rated. :P) While I know these forums are not a substitute for an actual professional examining/treat the problem, they can be a wealth of information. Yet here I have been on my last few visits wading through petty arguments that really seem as if 2 people in particular have a grudge against each other and won't let it go.

  11. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Wed May 13 2015 16:20:23
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    Chansey - 1 hour ago  » 
    May I just say that it's very discouraging to me, as a new member, to come onto these forums to read for advice, to find new avenues of dealing with this pest problem, and to encounter basically what reads as a contest of "see whose steam vac is bigger."

    I hear you Chansey, and I appreciate your humor and your serious input (and again, I appreciate your input, Winston and Itsjustabug).

    Chansey, I hope we can find ways to better manage the discussions (such as my suggestions above, perhaps) to make things better for you. Because you are the main reason the site exists.

    I do have a lot of hope that we can. And I think it's important for those involved in such conflicts to understand how others like yourself perceive such discussions.

  12. Winston O. Buggy

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Wed May 13 2015 16:48:59
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    It is unfortunate but a public forum sometimes exhibits public growing pains. In the begining when
    Cimex ruled supreme some of us may have had ideas (that we argued about) but now some have products, branding and consulting relationships for us to argue about. Although truth be told you would be hard pressed to find better high quality information at any other BB web site, you just have to dodge the steam sometimes from those big steamers. (FYI steamers and vacs are different, but I'm sure u knew that).

  13. Richard56

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Wed May 13 2015 17:27:41
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    IJB: This statement by Richard could also be miss leading

    Richard56
    The test that I and other pro's here have spoken favorably about is not hematix but the phenolphthalein presumptive blood test (Kastle Meyer).
    ----------------------------
    No intent to mislead. On review, it's a badly constructed sentence that can be read both ways. A better sentence construction would be: "The test that was spoken about favorably, both by myself and several pros, is not..."

    That said, I'm not sure why it deserved a call-out in this thread. If you had addressed it (or flagged it) in the thread where it was originally posted, it would have already been clarified.

    NoBugs: Feel free to make that change in the thread if you see fit.

    Richard

  14. theyareoutthere

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    Wed May 13 2015 19:57:55
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    Winston O. Buggy - 3 hours ago  » 
    It is unfortunate but a public forum sometimes exhibits public growing pains. In the begining when
    Cimex ruled supreme some of us may have had ideas (that we argued about) but now some have products, branding and consulting relationships for us to argue about. Although truth be told you would be hard pressed to find better high quality information at any other BB web site, you just have to dodge the steam sometimes from those big steamers. (FYI steamers and vacs are different, but I'm sure u knew that).

    Agreed...great resource

    To newbies finding this, I'm not an expert (less than an expert actually). These heated discussions tend to come and go. So, don't let it discourage you.

    Given that I know my way around a monoslope vs. hoop barn, I'm always careful to avoid anything that steams. Crap! Is that crap on my boot? Hate when that happens....

    Back on topic...

    They
    Are
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    = TAOT
  15. ItsJustABug

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    Wed May 13 2015 21:21:07
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    Richard
    I would have to address the reason for my actions tomorrow as i'm outta time today .
    As for the call out here ,Nobugs moved the subject here ,as it should be. An it's nothing personal I assure you, just clarification reasons. Good night

  16. Bug Buffet

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    Chansey - 1 day ago  » 
    May I just say that it's very discouraging to me, as a new member, to come onto these forums to read for advice, to find new avenues of dealing with this pest problem, and to encounter basically what reads as a contest of "see whose steam vac is bigger." (I tried to keep that G-rated. :P) While I know these forums are not a substitute for an actual professional examining/treat the problem, they can be a wealth of information. Yet here I have been on my last few visits wading through petty arguments that really seem as if 2 people in particular have a grudge against each other and won't let it go.

    I strongly agree with this. We Newbites have enough to deal with in our attempt to research our issue thoroughly without feeling as though we are an audience to a heavyweight boxing match among the pros. It's especially discouraging because the pros, whether highly-educated scientists or highly-experienced PCOs, all have valuable information and guidance to offer.

    I'm all for interesting debate, but every time I see a thread going south from conflict, it makes me sad, because I know I'll need to leave until the atmosphere cools down.

    I realize that NoBugs is doing all she can to keep things on an even keel here, but we all have to do our part to help out by being as civil as we can to each other, even if we don't all feel the same way about as issue. It's all about agreeing to disagree agreeably.

    After all...our common enemy doesn't care if we devour each other...as long as we save them a place at the table.

  17. Richard56

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    Fri May 15 2015 14:51:51
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    Chansey: ...Yet here I have been on my last few visits wading through petty arguments that really seem...

    Bug Buffet: I strongly agree with this....
    -----------------------
    Hi Chansey and Bug Buffet,

    I’m not going to defend incivility, but keep in mind that what may seem “petty” to you as someone new to the subject, may not seem the same to those studied, invested and caring about that subject. And in fact, the outcome of some of these discussions, may in some instances effect the kind of advice that newcomers like yourselves get here in the future.

    I’ll also add that some of these same people both you seem to have problems with, were the first to respond to your questions when you first arrived here. Caring can cut a number of ways.

    Richard

  18. Bug Buffet

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri May 15 2015 16:57:37
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    Richard56 - 1 hour ago  » 
    Chansey: ...Yet here I have been on my last few visits wading through petty arguments that really seem...
    Bug Buffet: I strongly agree with this....
    -----------------------
    Hi Chansey and Bug Buffet,
    I’m not going to defend incivility, but keep in mind that what may seem “petty” to you as someone new to the subject, may not seem the same to those studied, invested and caring about that subject. And in fact, the outcome of some of these discussions, may in some instances effect the kind of advice that newcomers like yourselves get here in the future.
    I’ll also add that some of these same people both you seem to have problems with, were the first to respond to your questions when you first arrived here. Caring can cut a number of ways.
    Richard

    Whoa....easy there! I wasn't criticising any particular poster, I was simply making statements based on my observations. I Have found the information here, especially from the pros, to be both insightful and helpful. I also didn't state that I had any problems with any of the posters - I'm just talking about what happens when threads take the occasional downward turn, which can happen on Any board Anywhere.

    I may be a newbie to This[u] board, but I have been posting to various boards for years, so I know what happens, both positively and negatively. Sometimes that happens when a post is responded to with an intensity that isn't necessary, especially when the poster and the responder have had very little in the way of previous interaction.

    If you can find any previous post I have made that indicates that I've had any problems with other posters, let me know - I'm more than willing to apologize to any offended party.

    In the meantime, since I'm getting a sense of where this may be heading, I'm going to just back away slowly, only responding to posts directed at me specifically.

    Yeesh.

    BB

  19. Richard56

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    Joined: Jul '10
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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri May 15 2015 17:16:30
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    No harm, BB, and this really isn't heading where you think it may be. I was just trying to point out from the other side that some things that seem petty to others, may not be to those in the discussion. And, yes, I'm sure there have been some stuff going on that was just plain petty, but that sometimes happens.

    When I re-read this thread earlier, NoBugs comments about the Canine Thread and related Canine discussions, reminded me of how it was back when I first arrived here. Some of those threads btw made what was going on here recently look kind of tame. But you know what, I stood out of the way, read everything front to back, and ended up knowing just about everything there was to know about bed bugs and canine detection.

    Today, when someone asks about whether or not they should hire a dog team, everyone is pretty much in agreement, that "yes", dog teams have a place but only if you insist on visual verification. It wasn't always like that, and took a lot of, er, spirited discussions until things got sorted out.

    Be well,

    Richard

  20. Nobugsonme

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    Joined: Mar '07
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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri May 15 2015 23:24:44
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    Bug Buffet,

    Your input is very much appreciated!

  21. Bug Buffet

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    Joined: Sep '14
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    Posted 4 years ago
    Sat May 16 2015 8:37:25
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    Richard56 - 15 hours ago  » 
    No harm, BB, and this really isn't heading where you think it may be. I was just trying to point out from the other side that some things that seem petty to others, may not be to those in the discussion. And, yes, I'm sure there have been some stuff going on that was just plain petty, but that sometimes happens.
    When I re-read this thread earlier, NoBugs comments about the Canine Thread and related Canine discussions, reminded me of how it was back when I first arrived here. Some of those threads btw made what was going on here recently look kind of tame. But you know what, I stood out of the way, read everything front to back, and ended up knowing just about everything there was to know about bed bugs and canine detection.
    Today, when someone asks about whether or not they should hire a dog team, everyone is pretty much in agreement, that "yes", dog teams have a place but only if you insist on visual verification. It wasn't always like that, and took a lot of, er, spirited discussions until things got sorted out.
    Be well,
    Richard

    Ahhh....well cool then. Thanks- I get what you're saying. I've been on boards where there has been both lively debate and deep agreement going on at the same time, which can look like a free-for-all to the new and uninitiated.

    I'm just so grateful for both the pros and seasoned posters like you, who allow us newbites (cute name for newbies here) both to vent and get some of the best advice out there (for free!). And of course ultimate kudos go to our Hostess With the Mostess, NoBugs.

    BB


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