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Cimex Eradicator Vs Steam Disinfector/ to Bed-bugscouk, EffiCi, KillerQueen....

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  1. Richard56

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Thu Dec 25 2014 14:02:30
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    Several years ago, prior to the release of the Cimex Eradicator, Polti marketed a product called the “Steam Disinfector” which attached to either their Vaporetto or Lecoaspira model steam cleaners.

    This was the device that EffiCi was using for bed bugs per this video posted in 2011 in this forum: http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/video-of-a-dry-steam-treatment

    In this case, the Steam Disinfector was attached to the Vaporetto model 2600. Like the current Cimex Eradicator, the Steam Disinfector produce 180 degrees at the tip. In fact, the Steam Disinfector looks identical to the delivery element of the Cimex Eradicator, disposable HPMED canister and all. At that time I believe the Steam Disinfector was being promoted as a bed bug killer.

    Then, Polti came out with the Cimex Eradicator, a standalone unit, aimed at the Bed Bug market. If memory serves me right, the Steam Disinfector seemed to disappear from their line. Now, the Steam Disinfector is back and being marketed as an overall home “sanitizer” with interestingly no mention of bed bug eradication at all. Is this a marketing distinction, or something more?

    So my question is this: (1) In terms of killing bed bugs, is the Steam Disinfector attached to one of the Vaporetto models, functionally the same thing as what is being called the “Cimex Eradicator” and in fact, is the steam disinfector element identical to what is being used on the Cimex Eradicator?

    I ask, because as a non-professional, and given the high price of the Polti units, it seems that the Steam Disinfector attached to one of the Vaporetto models would make more sense than buying the Cimex Eradicator because it is more versatile, given the number of other attachments for the home. It also might be less expensive, especially if you have an older Vaporetto model that is compatible. On the other hand, if it’s not functionally the same, then it would be less appealing to someone with a bed bug problem.

    Any help and clarification would be appreciated, and a happy holidays to everyone!

    Richard

  2. theyareoutthere

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Thu Dec 25 2014 20:26:12
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    Thanks for asking this question.

    They
    Are
    Out
    There
    = TAOT
  3. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Dec 26 2014 0:18:06
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    Thanks, Richard. I wondered about that too.

    And, this is a small point, but from a consumer perspective, it might be slightly nicer to have a steamer without the name "cimex" in it-- suggesting that one's battle wih bed bugs will be endless. Whereas it won't be, and you will no doubt move on to disinfecting bathrooms and eradicating wrinkles.

    I dropped EffeCi a note so it's more likely he will see this.

    I started and run the site but am "not an expert."
  4. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Dec 26 2014 6:21:21
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    Hi,

    I can only confir that of all the models available only 1 was easily converted to be the Cimex Eradicator and there were about 10 modifications made to get it to the stage I was happy with.

    It may work but equally the CE can be retro fitted with the common tools for more varied use once any bedbug issue is resolved.

    I will have a look to see if the prototype I have is the same model as you listed when I have access to my kit in a few days.

    Hope that helps.

    David Cain
    Bed Bugs Limited

    If you have found this information helpful please consider leaving feedback on social media via google+ or FaceBook or by like/loving the images.

    In accordance with the AUP and FTC (legal requirements) I openly disclose my vested interest in Passive Monitors as the inventor and patent holder. Since 2009 they have become an integral part in how we resolve bed bug infestations. I also have a professional relationship with PackTite in that they distribute my product under their own branding. I do not however receive any financial remuneration for any comments I make about products.
  5. Richard56

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Dec 26 2014 12:29:36
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    NB: And, this is a small point, but from a consumer perspective, it might be slightly nicer to have a steamer without the name "cimex" in it-- suggesting that one's battle wih bed bugs will be endless.
    -------------------------
    LOL. Not a small point, really. Hopefully it's a decal, or something that can be covered with a decal! I suppose the good news is that probably the only people who know what "Cimex" means are those in the same boat

    David: I can only confir that of all the models available only 1 was easily converted to be the Cimex Eradicator and there were about 10 modifications made to get it to the stage I was happy with.
    It may work but equally the CE can be retro fitted with the common tools for more varied use once any bedbug issue is resolved...
    -----------------
    Thanks for the reply, David. Are you saying that the Vaporetto attachments will work equally well on the Cimex Eradicator (CE)? That's good to know, but of course will push the price up even higher.

    Also, curious what the model was the CE was based on, and what modifications were made. I say this because Effi seemed very happy in 2011 with Vaporetto model 2600 coupled with the Steam Disnfector and apparently had hundreds of successful case histories using this combination, according to some of his posts and videos back then.

    Richard

    PS I have long since put my BB stuff away (turned out I never had them) with the exception of your passive monitor. Still keep it by the bed but fortunately, no hits!

  6. theyareoutthere

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Dec 26 2014 13:01:53
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    Richard56,

    I'm in the same boat. I do use my packtite when traveling (and often do a weekly clean), but I have dust mite allergies and find it has assisted with allergies.

    I do have a steamer, and like it.

  7. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Dec 26 2014 13:04:32
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    suppose the good news is that probably the only people who know what "Cimex" means are those in the same boat

    Yes-- this is maybe what makes it a small point for me.

  8. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Dec 26 2014 16:35:49
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    Hi,

    As I said I will happily share the model it's based on but I am sure you can appreciate that te details of the full specification are what I was paid to produce. As such they are commercially sensitive and given the fact that the CE is the only product so far to meet that exacting specification it's somewhat commercially sensitive. I could offer to send you a report based on consulting time but it would push the post of your purchase out of budget.

    The standard tools with the oval connector will work with it. We have actually used some of the "normal" tools on specific projects.

    While it is a valid point that other units will suffice at the level that I work there is a significant difference for me between something that is 98% perfect and something that is 99.99%. For most people that small difference makes no noticeable difference but when you have 20-100 times the output of an individual those small increments amplify.

    To give you an example I have the equipment needed to power my tools on any voltage in te world because it's easier to bring them with me that to modify what is available locally. It's a why settle for second best scenario.

    Yes it may cost you a little but it will save you in professional fees and you have a powerful tool which if you go on to use it for other applications will more than cover the cost in a year or so. I am personally trying to get my cleaner to use it instead of chemical products in my weekly clean.

    It would also be an opportunity for someone entrapreneurial to start a postal rental service on the units. We considered it for the UK but already have out hands rather full of existing work.

    David

  9. Richard56

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Dec 26 2014 23:31:45
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    David,

    I didn't realize that you were involved in the development of the Cimex Eliminator (CE) and therefore understand why you may not be at liberty to discuss some proprietary information, but if you can share the model it was based on that would be great.

    If I read between the lines, what I get out of your post is that: (1) The CE is definitely the best thing out there in steamers for bed bugs; and (2) The Steam Disinfector (SD) attached to one of the Vaporetto models may be identical (or it may not be identical) to the CE, but that is proprietary information.

    If this is the case, then hopefully Effi can chime in for more of a field report, as he sucessfully used the older configuration (SD combined with the Vaporetto), and I assume he is familiar with the CE.

    -- Richard

  10. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Sat Dec 27 2014 12:14:24
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    Hi,

    The model is:

    Polti Vaporetto Eco Pro 3000

    Out of all the range available (about 30) it was the one that had all my MUST have features and a few of the SHOULD have ones. The others in the range were all more of a compromise and when you view the world as having huge differences between 98% and 99.99% it was a heated debate. In the end it came down to the fact that I had proprietary knowledge to share on why one of the features was critical an it took about two years for that reason to be tested.

    So yes the CE is the only steamer I consider optimized for bedbugs and much of what is out there an used I would personally have nothing to do with because having played with steam since 2006 there was a good reason why we only took it seriously from 2011 onwards.

    As I said I know the tools for the model above will work on the CE so yes you can add functionality beyond bedbugs and the superheated steam wand make cleaning a breeze. In fact I am seeking partners to exploit some additional IP we have developed around its use in this area but saddly the IP is valid only in the RoW and specifically not the US but that's OK with me because there are a lot more non US residents in the world than US residents.

    Hope that helps and thanks for understanding why I cant always share all the finer details of my work, I often have to agree not to publicly disclose information which someone has paid to access.

    David

  11. Richard56

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Sat Dec 27 2014 22:52:59
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    David said: The model is:

    Polti Vaporetto Eco Pro 3000

    Out of all the range available (about 30) it was the one that had all my MUST have features and a few of the SHOULD have ones. The others in the range were all more of a compromise and when you view the world as having huge differences between 98% and 99.99% it was a heated debate. In the end it came down to the fact that I had proprietary knowledge to share on why one of the features was critical an it took about two years for that reason to be tested.
    -----------------------------------------------
    Thanks for the info, and it's starting to make more sense, or hopefully so. This is where I'm at now in the comparison of The Cimex Eradicator (CE) vs a Vapretto model plus the Steam Disinfector (SD) attachment.

    After comparing specs on Polti's international website between the Vaporetto Eco Pro 3000
    and the CE, they look identical and in fact all specs are identical, including maxium pressure (4bar) with the exception of the boiler power. The boiler power of the Eco Pro 3000 is 2000 watts and the boiler power of the CE is 1500 watts.

    Now I think I remember you posting some time ago that the Vaporettos you tested were too powerful for bed bugs even on the lowest pressure setting, so what I'm guessing is that a lower wattage version was developed to take care of this issue?

    If that's true, then I understand not only the advantage of the CE over the Eco Pro 3000 for bed bugs, but I also understand the premium price, since the CE is more of a niche item, mostly for professionals, and Polti therefore wanted to recoup some of the money in re-engineering the product, etc. Fair enough.

    But besides the difference in boiler power, everything else between the two units seems identical. I also should add that the unit Effi featured in his 2011 videos -- the Vapretto 2600 -- apparently discontinued, also had a boiler power of 1500 watts, like the current CE, and that could account for the fact that he had no problems with the pressure of the machine. Hopefully, I'm right so far.

    What I don't understand, however, is that when you go to Polti's USA web site, they only feature two pertinent machines. The "Eco Power" and the CE.

    The Eco Power machine again is identical in both look and specs to both the CE and Eco Pro 3000, again with the exception of the boiler power. In the USA, the boiler power of the Eco Power unit is 1000 watts.

    Now I really don't know much about power conversions, so I'm not sure how 1000 watts in USA current translates into european watts, or if indeed they are the same. Maybe you can help out here.

    But the main point is that unlike with the European models, all the specs on both of the USA machines -- Eco Power and CE -- are IDENTICAL -- with both machines are 1000 watts.

    So, given this, while I can understand why the CE in Europe is being sold at a premium, I don't understand why they would sell the CE at a premium in the USA since Eco Power plus SD appears identical to the CE in all respects, except the former has more attachments. And perhaps they won't since SD pricing is still not available. But it still begs the question why they came out with two different models that are the same. It would only make sense if they decided to price the CE lower than the Eco Power plus SD, but something tells me that is not what is going to happen.

    The other thing is this. You mentioned you arrived at the CE after testing many units and then tweaking them -- apparently with boiler pressure. Have you tested, or do you know how the American CE unit holds up to those standards. In other words, how close is the 1000 watts of boiler pressure in the American unit to what you apparently consider the ideal boiler pressure of 1500 watts for the European CE? Hopefully, your improvements have been passed along to the American version, but there's always the possiblity that specs got lost when translating from European to American power, and as you yourself have said, just a 1 or 2 percent difference can mean a lot.

    Thanks for any help and insight you can give on this.

    Richard

  12. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Sun Dec 28 2014 7:37:46
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    Hi,

    Sorry your barking up the wrong tree. Power in Watts is an SI and as such it's a universal measurement unlike for example "pints" where the US pint is different to the UK pint.

    As I said before I can only help you so far and make it a point not to attempt to debate pricing because I am one of those who measures value in terms of worth and ability to do a job not in monetary terms.

    Hope you understand why I can contribute further at this stage.

    David

  13. Richard56

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Sun Dec 28 2014 11:26:32
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    David said: Sorry your barking up the wrong tree. Power in Watts is an SI and as such it's a universal measurement... I can only help you so far and make it a point not to attempt to debate pricing because I am one of those who measures value in terms of worth and ability to do a job not in monetary terms.
    Hope you understand why I can contribute further at this stage.
    -----------------
    David,

    First, want to say I'm a big fan of yours, you have generously helped so many here, and btw still have and use your BB Passive years after my bb scare. I certainly understand and respect your position in regards to the CE, so I won't address you anymore in this thread, but I'd like to keep it alive for any others who might be interested in the subject.

    Given the previous statement that "watts are watts", I'll revise and condense my previous post. My analysis is just that, my analysis, and is open to debate/comments/clarifications from anyone interested.

    To define some terms: CE=Cimex Eradicator; SD=Steam Disinfector; V2600=Vaporetto 2600 (older model?); EP3000=Eco Pro 3000; EP=Eco Power Machine.

    In Europe, we have learned that the CE was based on the EP3000. Referring to the spec sheets available on the Polti site, other than attachments and price, there appear to be only one functional difference between the CE and the combination of the SD and EP3000 (European Combo). The CE is 1500 watts and the European Combo is 2000 watts. I'm assuming the difference in wattage is what makes the CE better for bed bugs, i.e. less presure that possibly might blow some bed bugs away. So, if you opt for the CE, you pay more for less attachments but you get a more specialized unit, designed specifically for bed bugs. Fair enough. You could then opt to add cleaning attachments by paying extra but you would sacrifice 500 watts in power that might be useful for some cleaning task other than bed bugs.

    In the United States, the EP3000 is called the Eco Power Machine (EP). The picture and all specs are identical with the exception of wattage. The EP3000 is 2000 watts and the EP is 1000 watts. The CE base unit in the United States is also 1000 watts and therefore is identical both in picture and specs to the EP if you add the steam disinfector (SD).

    A few conclusions/questions:

    1. In Europe, as I elaborated before, I can understand why the CE is more expensive than just adding a SD to an EP3000. The machines are not the same.

    2. In the U.S.A., however, the machines appear identical, so I see no advantage to purchasing a CE over the combination of the EP and SD.

    3. The U.S. version of the CE is different from the European version. The U.S. version is 1000 watts, the European version is 1500 watts. Assuming that only the European version was tested for bed bug efficacy, I'm wondering if the U.S. version is as good. If not, I suppose one could purchase the European version and then use a transformer to make it work on U.S. current.

    4. Effi posted several videos a few years ago using the V2600 coupled with a SD. The V2600 apparently is an older model but still available in some places. He suggested that based on many of his case histories that this was an excellent combination for killing bed bugs. The V2600 is also 1500 watts, like the current CE. If Effi sees this, and assuming he has used the current CE, it would great to hear how the older combination of the V2600 and the SD compares to the current CE. I am also curious what steam adjustment setting (the lowest maybe?) Effi found best on the V2600 for bed bugs, as I believe that there are several distinct settings on the machine, as opposed to a continuous steam adjustment on the CE.

    Richard


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