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Chicago 2011: Please post updates from the Bed Bug Summit here!

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  1. djames1921

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Sat Sep 24 2011 9:02:25
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    In Chicago for the bed bug conference. Will post some updates.

  2. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Sat Sep 24 2011 10:11:50
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    In Heathrow T3 about to board, see you in the bar later.

    David

    I am happy to answer questions in public but will not reply to message sent directly or via my company / social media. I am here to help everyone and not just one case at a time.

    In accordance with the AUP and FTC I openly disclose my vested interest in Passive Monitors as the inventor and patent holder. Since 2009 they have become an integral part in how we resolve bed bug infestations. I also have a professional relationship with PackTite in that they distribute my product under their own branding. I do not however receive any financial remuneration for any comments I make about pro
  3. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Sun Sep 25 2011 15:29:34
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    Hi David and David,

    I hope you don't mind, but I am making this a GREEN STICKY, so it's easy to find and anyone at the Bed Bug Summit can put their updates/sightings/etc. here.

    I know many of us are eager for all news from Chicago.

    (For those not in the know, we're talking about the 2011 North American Bed Bug Summit, where many forum regulars are now... and nobugs, alas, is not!)

    I started and run the site but am "not an expert."
  4. blargg

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Mon Sep 26 2011 21:20:42
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    Any updates? I've seen some news footage on it.
    Hope all is going well.
    Of course, everyone's secretly hoping for someone to say a miracle cure was found at the bedbug summit.

  5. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Mon Sep 26 2011 23:04:56
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    That is doubtful.

    But we usually hear some rumors about useful products and technologies in the works...

  6. Canuck

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Tue Sep 27 2011 14:18:27
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    :|Attendees must be mesmerized by the presentations. Wish I was there.

    Sheree Swindle / certified K9-assisted bed bug inspector
  7. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Wed Sep 28 2011 14:48:43
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    Hi,

    I have submitted a review for a trade magazine and will try and flesh it out when the jet lag wears off.

    I can assure you there were no massive break throughs. It got rather heated in one or two of the sessions with.

    Best sessions:

    International perspective - Oliver Madge (bedbug foundation) and Sean Rollo (Canada and forum regular)

    Best academic session (I attended) - Richard Naylor (Sheffield University and forum regular)

    Best new session - Psychological impact of bedbugs - Dr Caleb Adler MD (uni of Cincinnati)

    Best comment - "the emperor appears to be naked"


    Best new product
    - Packtite closest.

    Product I most wanted to steal - Insect Inferno heat trailer.

    Most useless freebee - NESDCA key fob torch (you don't need one if you don't visually confirm).

    Best tantrum - one of the heat blokes exploding and declaring all the other heat providers should not be there because they infringe him.

    Worst marketing material - the fact sheet that had a life cycle with larval stages.

    Best special guest appearance - Harris the gnome conferenced in at the axis of evil dinner.

    Best conversation - Mr James and Corey (insect inferno) they both know their heat and products.

    Best dressed - Me of course , day two's black Kobe leather trousers (I wont name and shame the ladies who had to stroke them).


    Best clip to appear on YouTube
    - some clown from NY feeding bedbugs at 1am in the hotel room.

    More to follow.

  8. Canuck

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Wed Sep 28 2011 15:04:36
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    Thank you David; looking forward to hearing more. Pictures would be great for those that couldn't be there to stroke the leather. Sheree

  9. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Wed Sep 28 2011 19:34:47
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    Thanks much, David!

    I look forward to others' reports also.

    Oh to have been a bed bug fly on the wall...

  10. thebedbugresource

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Wed Sep 28 2011 20:27:53
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    There were many highlights of the conference and some very interesting research that was presented.

    Unfortunately, most of this research is still just that ... Research. And most good research leads to more questions unanswered. However, there will be a few new products to come out of it in the very near future.

    I did see one VERY promising product with some EXTREMELY promising efficacy data. I cannot share more than that at this point other than some very respected entomologists have tested it.

    Look for a new monitor to be released in a matter of days/weeks that uses CO2, kairomones, and a harborage mimic. This looks to be an inexpensive alternative for active monitoring.

    Sincerely,

    Sean

  11. blargg

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Wed Sep 28 2011 20:37:09
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    thebedbugresource - 8 minutes ago  » 
    There were many highlights of the conference and some very interesting research that was presented.
    Unfortunately, most of this research is still just that ... Research. And most good research leads to more questions unanswered. However, there will be a few new products to come out of it in the very near future.
    I did see one VERY promising product with some EXTREMELY promising efficacy data. I cannot share more than that at this point other than some very respected entomologists have tested it.
    Look for a new monitor to be released in a matter of days/weeks that uses CO2, kairomones, and a harborage mimic. This looks to be an inexpensive alternative for active monitoring.
    Sincerely,
    Sean

    Monitor or killer?

  12. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Thu Sep 29 2011 6:17:36
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    thebedbugresource - 9 hours ago  » 
    There were many highlights of the conference and some very interesting research that was presented.
    Unfortunately, most of this research is still just that ... Research. And most good research leads to more questions unanswered. However, there will be a few new products to come out of it in the very near future.

    Hi Sean,

    Good to catch up, this comment makes me think about the molecular talks and some of the more academic content which was very good but as you say of scientific value at this stage rather than commercial.

    Given that the majority of the audience were not familiar with the often complex details of the DNA work do you think there is a need for a pure academic conference on bedbugs.

    The pharmaceutical industry have realised the role that personal genetics can play in therapy although it took a long time between the assays we were developing in the 90's to the designer drugs of the current day. The development time however is lower here as genetic knowledge can be more rapidly applied to the field.

    I did have some fun explaining the genetics to a few of the older traditional pest control types in the smoking area. Its amazing how many people mull things over that way, nasty habit but its great clear thinking time.

    David

  13. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Thu Sep 29 2011 14:07:44
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    I forgot best and most viral quote:

    We should call this the Ostrich bug

    Apparently someone came up with it over breakfast and I heard it at least 3 times.

    David

  14. Patrick

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri Sep 30 2011 10:13:52
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    Bed Bug Summit 2011
    Highlights

    I am surprised no one has posted any real comments from the Summit. I will try to summarize some of the highlights from my notes.

    Please forgive any errors or omissions in my note taking. I have tried to provide a synopsis of the most intriguing findings without going too much into detail.

    Session: Bringing the Heat: A look at Heat Treatments

    Dr. Roberto Pereira – University of Florida

    -generally speaking Bed bugs are less resistant to heat than other insects
    -one major concern in heat treatments are bed bug escapes.
    -findings reveal that a pesticide crack and crevice treatment along baseboards before heating will actually prevent more escapes into wall voids because of the pesticide blocking the escape paths.
    -wall voids and exterior of walls treated generally do not reach lethal temperatures and bed bugs along the baseboards and outlets can escape to these cool zones.
    -findings also revealed that bed bugs in harbourages away from the walls, generally do not move and cluster in their harbourage and therefore are exterminated with the heat.
    -findings with the application of pesticides to baseboards before heat treatment
    -100% of bed bugs killed in harbourages in the centre of the room
    -25% (7 of 28) bed bugs at the baseboards moved to cooler temperatures and remained alive after treatment.
    -University of Florida and Florida’s Department of Agriculture is working on a safe application of Heated Nuvan Strips (DDVP)
    -findings revealed 100% kill rate of all bed bugs and eggs in four days.
    -Nuvan strips is a low cost alternative to heat treatments.

    Session: The Search for a Silver Bullet: Where is Science Taking US.

    Dr. Ken Haynes, University of Kentucky

    -very early in this research
    -Bed bugs have symbionts (bacteria) that help them digest blood
    -research focused on “Can we target this bacteria in a bed bug to eliminate them through the introduction of antibiotics?”.
    -North American bed bugs carry 3 different bacteria, 2 strains of Wolbachia and a third bacteria (that I did not write in my notes).
    -Tetracycline and Rifamycin were used as the antibiotics to remove the bacteria.
    -in all testing the best results were the removal of 2/3 of the bacteria strains and the stoppage of egg production to almost nil.
    -the antibiotics were injected into each bed bug, so delivery options will need to be considered
    -in the infant stages and more work needs to be done to figure out a combination of antibiotics that will knock out all 3 bacteria for efficacy results.
    -2nd half of his research focused on finding a better Synergist for pesticides
    -currently most bed bugs in North American are resistant to pyrethrin pesticides by being able to detoxify them in their bodies
    -a better synergist would stop the detoxifying process leaving more of the toxins in the bed bugs and create a better kill rate.
    -in their findings it took 176 times less Deltamethrin with a PBO Synergist than without it to be effective against resistant strains of bed bugs.

    Dr. Richard Naylor – University of Sheffield, UK

    Why Bed bugs disperse from their original host?

    -this session turned some of what we know on its head
    -bed bugs start to disperse from the original host within only 2 weeks
    -after 6 weeks, 19/490 dispersed from the original host
    -in his field research he found bed bugs generally within 3 metres of the host which has implications for preparation and treatment.
    -dispersed bed bugs feed less often than bed bugs that are located near the host.
    -findings showed that bed bugs cluster in harbourages and do not use 100% of a continuous harbourage, leaving space between their clusters empty.
    -why space is left between clusters is unknown, but it seems each harbourage has a certain carrying capacity of bed bugs afterwhich bed bugs will start to disperse farther and farther from the original host
    -More clutter equals more carrying capacity and less dispersion initially, until the carrying capacity of a cluttered space is reached
    -a sparsely equipped space will actually enhance dispersal because the carrying capacity is less and bed bugs will start to disperse earlier.

    Dr. Warren Booth – North Carolina State University

    -Genetic Analysis research on current populations of bed bugs
    -found N.A. bed bugs are highly resistant to pyrethroids
    -Less than 30% kill rate using pyrethroids with bed bugs that are resistant
    -90% of US bed bugs are resistant to pyrethroids
    -there are 2 genetically different mutations of bed bugs that allow them to be resistant to pyrethroids.
    -bed bug populations can have 1 or both to make them resistant.
    -his original hypothesis was that there would be low genetic diversity of bed bugs especially regionally in the US and still low across the US.
    -findings revealed the genetic diversity of Bed bugs is very high across the US.
    -he studied 66 populations across 21 states, finding the diversity the highest in Ohio with multiple genetically diverse populations occurring in the state.
    -yet even with regions (ie, southwest, northeast, Midwest) the diversity was quite varied.
    -this reveals that there are many different introductions of genetically different bed bugs into the US from elsewhere globally.
    -within a single apartment building there can be 1 population or multiple populations of bed bugs that are genetically diverse creating an even greater challenge for chemical treatments

    Session: Spotting Bed Bugs Sooner: New Technology in Bed Bug Detection Devices and Techniques

    My partner attended this session and through our sharing of information, below is what was related.

    -there are many current early detection devices that marry a harbourage concept with a human pheromone, usually mixed within a glue trap.
    -these types of traps are largely ineffective because it confuses a bed bug, because generally they do not associate their host within their harbourage.
    -Climb-up interceptors are the best monitoring tool and best anti-climb up device for furniture.
    -the fabric tape actually allows nymphs to climb up the sides, whereas other products made solely of plastic do not allow the little hooks on the bed bugs ‘feet’ per se to climb up the sides.
    -the fabric tape on Climb-up Interceptors were actually designed by an entomologist with the physiology of adults and nymphs in mind.
    -findings revealed the Climb-Up Interceptors caught far more nymphs and adults than any other climb-up device.
    -findings revealed that a small CO2 device in the middle of a climb-up placed in a room attracted bed bugs better than almost any other pitfall trap available.
    -the Nightwatch system is still one of the best pitfall traps available based on their findings.

    Session: The End of Puppy Love: A Deeper Look at the evolving World of Canine Scent Detection

    -improperly trained canines can fail upto 50% of the time to determine live bed bugs from dead bed bugs.
    -make sure any canine hired has a track record of finding “live” bed bugs

  15. KillerQueen

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri Sep 30 2011 13:08:45
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    A clown from NYC? Who could have done such a thing? Should I host the video?

  16. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri Sep 30 2011 13:23:58
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    KillerQueen - 14 minutes ago  » 
    A clown from NYC? Who could have done such a thing? Should I host the video?

    It would be rude not to and I hear Harris will be after you if you don't.

    David

  17. bait

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri Sep 30 2011 17:36:52
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    Thank you, Patrick.

  18. BuggerBeater

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri Sep 30 2011 18:30:20
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    Hang on, if 90% of bedbugs in North America are resistant to Pyrethrin, why on earth are PCO's still using it?

    Great promise on the bacteria inhibiting idea. The $33 Billion hospitality industry has a lot on the line so I won't be surprised to see hundreds of millions of dollars thrown at this problem over the next couple of years.

  19. theyareoutthere

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri Sep 30 2011 18:47:39
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    Thanks, Patrick for communicating in layman's terms. Great info.

    They
    Are
    Out
    There
    = TAOT
  20. blargg

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri Sep 30 2011 21:53:53
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    Patrick - 11 hours ago  » 
    Bed Bug Summit 2011
    -wall voids and exterior of walls treated generally do not reach lethal temperatures and bed bugs along the baseboards and outlets can escape to these cool zones.
    -findings also revealed that bed bugs in harbourages away from the walls, generally do not move and cluster in their harbourage and therefore are exterminated with the heat.
    -findings with the application of pesticides to baseboards before heat treatment
    -100% of bed bugs killed in harbourages in the centre of the room
    -25% (7 of 28) bed bugs at the baseboards moved to cooler temperatures and remained alive after treatment.

    Oh crap. I guess the success rate of entire-structure heat isn't as high as I thought. The thermapure folks monitor the wall void temp. I guess the wall voids don't quite hit lethal temps in a standard treatment.

  21. Patrick

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Mon Oct 3 2011 9:13:30
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    I would be interested to know how Thermapure measures wall void temps. Since wall voids differ in size, shape and exposure to the exterior walls, I would be interested just how much monitoring is being done in these voids. High, mid and low temps recorded? Interior and Exterior? In the north, homes have vapour barriers and insulation, how do they measure temp on the exterior of the insulation? Better yet, how would you heat up that exterior space on the outside of the insulation? Its just meant to be illustrative that heat treatments are not 100% effective.

    Heat is still very effective, when you consider that the 25% escapes listed above, of the bed bugs behind baseboards/outlets actually represents a much smaller portion of the overall population of bed bugs. Its estimated that as much as 60% of a population live on the furniture where the host spend most of their time, bed/sofas. The other 40% will be dispersed within roughly 10 feet of that host, with only a portion of that 40% in the baseboards and outlets. So the 25% escapes may only represent 3-5% of the over all population, meaning a control of 95-98% of all bed bugs, which is still the most efficacious treatment, besides fumigation.

    Pyrethrin clarification, 90% may have 1 of 2 of the genetic differences that make them resistant, not that 90% are fully resistant. A portion of the bed bug population in the US has both genetic markers and make them very resistant, but a great portion only have 1 of the genetic markers. The resistance %'s vary, where 1 population kill rate maybe be 70% with 30% surviving, while others may have a the reverse with 70% survival. It also depends on the formulations being used, which there are many. Remember as well that this is only 1 study, it will need to be coroborated.

  22. DougSummersMS

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Mon Oct 3 2011 9:33:26
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    Patrick,

    One challenge with treating bed bugs is that anything less than 100% represents a treatment failure.

    Saying that heat is still very effective is problematic... if we are talking about less than 100%

    If wall voids are an issue... Structural fumigation with Vikane gas will treat the wall voids and other hard to heat areas with 100% efficacy.

    Most of the bed bugs are usually harboring in contents... Heat can be used to treat contents... but Vikane gas is far superior... if a structural treatment is required.

  23. JWhiteBBCTV

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Mon Oct 3 2011 11:05:21
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    I think some of the more interesting research was provided by Dr. Naylor in regards to bed bug distribution. Dr. Naylor is finding that bed bugs are distributing through a structure so readily not because of traumatic insemination (which has long been theorized) but instead due to harborage availability (i.e. as hiding places fill, the bugs spread, similar to cockroaches). His data painted the picture nicely but I have some issues with the theory because I've found bugs in one crack and another crack next to it is empty and bugs are spreading throughout the unit. Obviously more work needs to be done but interesting nonetheless. The bigger question is what do you do with this information to improve treatment and monitoring. We'll see...

    Overall I think the Summit went fairly well. Obviously there are always things to improve upon and change (speakers, sessions, etc...) and I'm always open to suggestions on sessions people would like to see. If anybody who attended (or even those who didn't) have any suggestions, please e-mail or PM me.

    There was a vendor on the floor who had some pretty sharp, nicely engineered interception devices that could be used on the bed, socket plates, the strip that goes on the floor under the door (for the life of me I can't think of the name right now). This was the first I had seen of this manufacturer and work needs to be done on his products before I'm going to promote them (I had some concerns about the socket plates they had that you could install that may catch bugs as they travel, they had some areas it looked like bugs could escape). Also, the price points of his items concerned me. It looked like the bed interception devices were going to be twice the Climbups which may become unaffordable for many. They were nicer and thus the increase in price. Nonetheless, it was the only "new" vendor/item I saw.

    As for the clown, he needs counciling (David, do you have that link? That's a keeper).

  24. jrbtnyc

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Mon Oct 3 2011 13:06:12
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    Patrick - 3 days ago  » 
    Bed Bug Summit 2011
    Highlights
    ...
    Session: The End of Puppy Love: A Deeper Look at the evolving World of Canine Scent Detection
    -improperly trained canines can fail up to 50% of the time to determine live bed bugs from dead bed bugs.
    -make sure any canine hired has a track record of finding “live” bed bugs

    Patrick may I abet the grateful chorus of thank you's for your digest of the summit.

    Do you have, or does anyone have, perhaps Doug?, more details about the Puppy Love session, in particular this canine/live bug/dead bug issue? Especially as to whether there are any recent developments improving the pooches' differentiation skills? To me this seems absolutely crucial and central to any consideration of dog detection of bb's.

    Do the poorly-trained dogs only alert to bb's that have been dead for a very short time, or could it be years or even decades?

    So many houses, apartments, or entire buildings might have plenty of long-expired bb's but are clean now. So if the dog alerts, wow, that's mayhem.

    Of course this issue is closely tied to that of handler verification of alerts.

    Did the session also look at the possibility of dogs alerting to dead eggs, old cast skins, and old feces; and how old they have to be before the dog no longer picks up on them.

  25. JWhiteBBCTV

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Tue Oct 4 2011 6:56:28
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    JRbtnyc, unfortunately it didn't get into particulars in regards to addressing current concerns. Pepe Peruyero gave an overview of canine scent (food reward vs. toy reward, etc...), Brian Taggart went through the day and life of a handler and Andrew Klein spoke about the business.

    The problem with canine scent is that in many instances there are no easy answers. Dogs can definitively tell the difference but as for how long that takes after a bug dies, there's no one answer. I've heard two hours, 2 days, two weeks, etc... There are many different factors at play (environmental, dogs ability, etc...) that what happens in one apartment may not in the next.

    I know Rutgers (Rick and Changlu) are performing an extensive study on canine scent right now that is really going to shed some light on what is truly going on with field inspections. Most of the research that's been done so far has been laboratory or controlled field and the question has always persisted of "how effective are individual companies and the industry as a whole as finding bugs in the field".

    I would have love to made the session at the Summit more on research and what is going on but there really hasn't been any ground-breaking research on dogs of late. The format of the sessions is something we're looking to change next year and Rutgers study will hopefully start that process.

  26. thebedbugresource

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    bed-bugscouk - 5 days ago  » 

    thebedbugresource - 9 hours ago  » 
    There were many highlights of the conference and some very interesting research that was presented.
    Unfortunately, most of this research is still just that ... Research. And most good research leads to more questions unanswered. However, there will be a few new products to come out of it in the very near future.

    Hi Sean,
    Good to catch up, this comment makes me think about the molecular talks and some of the more academic content which was very good but as you say of scientific value at this stage rather than commercial.
    Given that the majority of the audience were not familiar with the often complex details of the DNA work do you think there is a need for a pure academic conference on bedbugs.
    The pharmaceutical industry have realised the role that personal genetics can play in therapy although it took a long time between the assays we were developing in the 90's to the designer drugs of the current day. The development time however is lower here as genetic knowledge can be more rapidly applied to the field.
    I did have some fun explaining the genetics to a few of the older traditional pest control types in the smoking area. Its amazing how many people mull things over that way, nasty habit but its great clear thinking time.
    David

    Hello David,

    Thanks for the kind words above about my presentation! I was leery about how interested a US based audience would be with what the rest of the world is experiencing. I was very pleasantly surprised by the overwhelming response by people as I saw them throughout the conference.

    Do I think that a purely academic conference is warranted? I think that this conference already exists; the National Urban Entomology Conference which year after year has morphed in to a bed bug centric event.

    BBC does a good job of balancing Academic and Industry speakers so that there is something for everyone. With that said; many in the audience at the research presentations had their eyes fully glazed over

    Sincerely,

    Sean

  27. thebedbugresource

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Tue Oct 4 2011 19:02:23
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    blargg - 5 days ago  » 

    thebedbugresource - 8 minutes ago  » 
    There were many highlights of the conference and some very interesting research that was presented.
    Unfortunately, most of this research is still just that ... Research. And most good research leads to more questions unanswered. However, there will be a few new products to come out of it in the very near future.
    I did see one VERY promising product with some EXTREMELY promising efficacy data. I cannot share more than that at this point other than some very respected entomologists have tested it.
    Look for a new monitor to be released in a matter of days/weeks that uses CO2, kairomones, and a harborage mimic. This looks to be an inexpensive alternative for active monitoring.
    Sincerely,
    Sean

    Monitor or killer?

    Hello Blargg,

    Killer ...

    Sean

  28. jrbtnyc

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    JWhiteBBCTV - 17 hours ago  » 
    JRbtnyc, unfortunately it didn't get into particulars in regards to addressing current concerns. Pepe Peruyero gave an overview of canine scent (food reward vs. toy reward, etc...), Brian Taggart went through the day and life of a handler and Andrew Klein spoke about the business.
    The problem with canine scent is that in many instances there are no easy answers. Dogs can definitively tell the difference but as for how long that takes after a bug dies, there's no one answer. I've heard two hours, 2 days, two weeks, etc... There are many different factors at play (environmental, dogs ability, etc...) that what happens in one apartment may not in the next.
    I know Rutgers (Rick and Changlu) are performing an extensive study on canine scent right now that is really going to shed some light on what is truly going on with field inspections. Most of the research that's been done so far has been laboratory or controlled field and the question has always persisted of "how effective are individual companies and the industry as a whole as finding bugs in the field".
    I would have love to made the session at the Summit more on research and what is going on but there really hasn't been any ground-breaking research on dogs of late. The format of the sessions is something we're looking to change next year and Rutgers study will hopefully start that process.

    Much appreciation Jeff for the analysis which is a great help in understanding where this aspect of the K9 field stands at present.

  29. JWhiteBBCTV

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Wed Oct 5 2011 7:30:47
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    Sean,

    What you mentioned is one of the big debates we're going to have for next year. I had 10-15 people tell me how great the Where is Science Taking Us session and how great the information was but just about all of those people who said how great it was were technical directors/scientific types. I think 90-95% of the attendees don't understand a lot of the scientific information or don't know what to do with it. I saw a lot of glazed eyes as well. I'm still trying to figure out what to do with the information.

    So, I agree that I would like to see more scientific information but those are really talks made for ESA or the Urban meeting where most of your attendees have research backgrounds. They are tricky at industry meetings because many of the attendees are disinterested or overwhelmed. That being said, many of the attendees aren't even industry folks (hospitality, property management, etc... made up 30% of the crowd) and those types have no interest for that type of information.

    One thought I have for next year is to possibly create two tracks on one of the days. One of which would be scientific and the other more application. I'd like to see more science but it's tough with such a mixed crowd.

    Jeff

  30. thebedbugresource

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    Wed Oct 5 2011 22:13:38
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    Jeff,

    The speakers chosen did a great job of not trying to impress their audience, and more importantly, the other academics, with tonnes of scientific terminology.

    The academics also did a great job of formatting their presentations in the following format:

    1) Here is what I am interested in researching.
    2) This is why I think it is important.
    3) I was hoping to discover ...
    4) My experiment(s) involved x,y,z
    5) The results I found are ...
    6) All of this means "blank" in terms of bed bugs and our battle to control them.

    I really think that the "glazed eyes" were only there during 4 and 5 as this was the meat of the scientific sandwich. The 2 and 6 portions apply to everyone and they were presented in everyday terms. And more than anything 6 got the wheels turning for all involved ...

    The sessions were short enough that the non-scientific or non-industry people would not be lost or tune out.

    Concurrent sessions are sometimes a necessity at a conference but I don't think it warranted it for the Where Is The Science Taking Us day ...

    Sean

  31. Nobugsonme

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    Thu Oct 6 2011 13:29:59
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    I just posted on the blog alerting people to this thread. And to the new article in Pest magazine (UK) from David Cain, about his experiences at the 2011 NABBS.

    Check out the blog post here.

    Check out David's critique here.

    Note: I usually encourage people to comment on the blog side of things to reach a wider audience than we get in the forums, but given the lengthy discussion here so far, I encouraged the blog readers to "come over" to this thread, if they're willing to log in to post (not required by the blog). You may also comment on the blog end if you wish.

  32. JWhiteBBCTV

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    Fri Oct 7 2011 8:55:47
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    I don't completely disagree with David's review in Pest magazine but here's my rebuttal to one of his main points (for what it's worth):

    While I completely understand that some of the sessions were 80% or more of the same information as last year, we had significantly more attendees and shouldn't some of the new attendees have the opportunity to learn the basics? We offered a bunch of new sessions for those that came last year but making each session entirely new every year is an unrealistic expectation. It's not the same crowd every year so 50% of the people there didn't hear the information last year. Also, there isn't that much research going into each topic to make each session new.

    We wanted to provide a balance between basic education and new information. I think most of the sessions did this but there were a few that were redundant. We're looking at new speakers and a new perspective next year combined with new sessions but to think that every year is going to be all new information is an unrealistic expectation. Meetings where all new information is being presented are you're ESA's and Urban scientific meetings which is never what we positioned this as. This is positioned as science meeting industry and providing information pertinent to all.

    I appreciate the feedback, positive or negative. We're always looking to make things better. I just ask for those reading to know that I could provide you with 20 positives for every negative so all in all we think things went pretty well. For those that are considering or want to attend in the future, all I ask is that you get several opinions from attendees before making a decision.

  33. Patrick

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    Fri Oct 7 2011 10:07:47
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    @DougSummerMS - Absolutely Fumigation is the number one effective treatment, unfortunately its also the most costly, which most residential, governmental or corporate customers are unwilling to bear the costs, unless the issue is completely out of control.

    However, just because Heat treatments are about 95-98% effective it does not necessarily represent failure. Without getting into proprietary processes, there are other procedures that can eliminate the other 3-5% after a heat treatment has been performed.

    @JWhite - On the new interception devices I would agree that the manufacturer had some interesting items, but the main bed interceptor did not have fabric tape. That fabric tape that allows nymphs of any stage to climb into the trap in my opinion is of utmost import, without the tape its an inferior product (not to mention the much greater cost). We need efficacy backed by science, if its aesthetically pleasing that's just a bonus.

    As far as glazed eyes at the seminar, I would hope that the scientific part of the conference never gets taken away. For the pest companies, its these sessions that provide a competitive edge against competitors that do not attend these conferences. Most of the time companies can see the possibility of in the field changes to processes from these sessions. We all hope companies are on the same page for success with bed bugs, but its simply not the case. Some companies are more effective than others because they continually educate themselves and change their procedures to reflect that knowledge.

    @jrbtnyc - The most significant issue to come out of the canine presentation besides the possibility of the higher than 50% fail rate was also the 15% false-negatives findigs that was presented. This is a huge issue. This means that 15% of the work recommended from a canine could be treatments that never had to be done, money not needed to be spent. In a time when most government housing, property managers and others dealing with budget crunches specifically due to bed bug treatments, an extra 15% can mean alot.

    Essentially it was suggested that canine results should be followed up with a visual inspection to confirm and if there is no visual confirmation, then it should be followed up with active monitoring to determine the validity of the canine detection. This is not what the industry was hoping for.

  34. JWhiteBBCTV

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    Fri Oct 7 2011 11:12:14
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    Patrick,

    The tape is not an integral part of every interception device. The way the Climbup is designed it is integral. The way others are designed it is not. While I haven't worked with the rubber service on the trap I referenced, I don't expect it to cause issues with the bugs walking up and into the trap.

    There are easy ways around the need for cloth tape that I can't share at this point due to NDA's but because that device doesn't use it it doesn't mean it doesn't work.

    Jeff

  35. bed-bugscouk

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    Fri Oct 7 2011 12:02:05
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    Tape or no tape I think the take home point for me in that talk was the lack of clear declaration that the speaker had a vested interest in the product. I know many were shocked to hear the admission when the direct question was asked.

    Personally I find it difficult to understand how that was not picked up sooner through the peer review of the papers that have been published and due diligence processes. It does call into question the impartiality of all those involved and shines a dim light on the industry.

    David

  36. jrbtnyc

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    Patrick - 5 hours ago  » 
    ...
    @jrbtnyc - The most significant issue to come out of the canine presentation besides the possibility of the higher than 50% fail rate was also the 15% false-negatives findigs that was presented. This is a huge issue. This means that 15% of the work recommended from a canine could be treatments that never had to be done, money not needed to be spent. In a time when most government housing, property managers and others dealing with budget crunches specifically due to bed bug treatments, an extra 15% can mean alot.
    ...

    Do you mean false positives. If I understand correctly, when a dog alerts to an area where no bed bugs are present, we call that a false positive – leading to unnecessary remediation expense in that area if the handlers don't follow up with visual inspections as they're supposed to do so as to ascertain which positives are false and thus save the expense.

    Whereas if a dog fails to alert to an area that *does* have bed bugs, we would call that a false negative, is that correct.

  37. JWhiteBBCTV

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    Mon Oct 10 2011 8:53:59
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    Let me say a few things here about what David is talking about. To say one situation that happens all the time is shedding a dim light on an entire industry is ridiculous.

    David is referring to a researcher conducting research on a product that he is named on the patent for. What the researcher is finding is that the product he is named on the patent for is one of the better, if not best, product out there.

    Where David's opinion falls apart is his "vested" interest assumption. Universities and university researchers are named on patents all the time. If the researcher isn't receiving any royalties on the product and is only named on the patent because he provided information and helped design it, where's the interest? Even IF he/university is receiving royalties, if he is conducting good, ethical research and his findings can be replicated by anybody else, where's the issue?

    I agree that the situation probably should have been presented up-front to dispell any of these concerns but I know him very well and the reason it probably wasn't mentioned is because he's conducting honest research and the findings are the findings. Before David dim's the industry and stands up in the middle of the room and point fingers and creates drama you should probably try to replicate the research. I agree the situation creates some awkwardness but the findings are what they are whether he's named on the patent or not.

    What David wants you to think is that when somebody asked him the question and he said he was named on the patent that the whole room gasped, a woman sobbed in the back, somebody passed out and tomatoes were thrown. Following that the sun was blocked by the moon, a gargoyle landed on the hotel and the Stay-Puft marshmellow man walked in the back of the room. That didn't happen because university and university researchers are named on many patents. It probably should have been mentioned up front but an industry dimmer is WAY over-the-top.

  38. bed-bugscouk

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    Jeff,

    With all due respect your position on this falls apart at step 1. If there is no conflict on interest declare it, declare that you are on the patent and therefore it is a mute point. However being on the patent of one product and not declaring your research on that product opens up a whole can of worms including, failure of the peer review process as it is a conflict to publish without disclosing, you should not review other products in a similar class if you had a hand in developing another.

    Non of this would be that big an issue had a large portion of the room not been amazed at how well his product came out against all others in the 2011 talk.

    Going back to the 2010 talk I know you appreciate that at least 2 people in the room felt strongly enough to correct the analysis and the method of testing that had been used. I know I personally advised one protocol which was ignored and the passive placed in a location where bedbugs could not get to it. If you still feel that is an unbiased resereach method feel free to try and convince me.

    As for it shedding a dim light on the industry, well yes I will give you the fact that one incident does not exactly shed a dim light but the reality is that this is not just one incident is it? Would you like me to disclose the content of some of the email I am in possession of which confirm this is not just one incident?

    We could also look at the testing protocols and recommendations of some of the products out there but I have a feeling you "may or may not" be too keen on that one either.

    I am actually testing and retesting products at present because I think some of the results are dubious at best. I will be publishing a consumer advisory towards the end of this week which further highlights how some aspects of the industry is not only failing itself but more importantly failing the customers and consumers.

    As for your last paragraph would you care to confirm if anyone else shared the same concerns as I did and if they had a conversation with the organisers as well and what the outcome of those conversations was?

    Dim light or not the way that was conducted stank and to make light of it casts more doubt on you than me.

    David

  39. JWhiteBBCTV

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    Mon Oct 10 2011 15:32:54
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    I'm sure others were concerned and in fact when I stumbled across the information recently I was concerned about how it was going to be viewed. Again, I agree that it should have been up-front and the fact that it wasn't casts an even more negative light on the situation. I truly don't think there was any intentional bias in the experiments and the findings but if you want to question everything, be my guest.

    I still go back to my original statement. If the research is sound, the design is sound and it can be replicated, this is all just drama.

    I also don't disagree with your statement that EVERY industry doesn't do itself favors with these sort of topics. How many products are being sold out there that have "research" conducted on them where the protocol was designed to make them succeed? I can't tell you how many "protocols" I've looked at and chuckled as it's obvious it will make the product look good. I could also name several "researchers" (more independent researchers, not university based) where you question their position with a given product. I'm not saying those researchers are doing bad things but you could at least question their position and claims.

    Sometimes it just feels that you could pick apart any test by anyone and you're never happy. It's always about what's wrong with everything. Is anyone doing anything right in your eyes?

  40. Nobugsonme

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    Mon Oct 10 2011 16:22:09
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    Thanks for your comments, Jeff.

    As an outsider who is not in the industry, and someone who was unfortunately not present at the conferences, I have to say, it does seem to be a conflict of interest for someone publishing a research study about a product not to openly declare in the article that they are listed as one of the product's inventors.

    I am not a scientist, so someone can correct me if I am wrong.

    I became aware of this particular situation when seeing a patent application (one of the many news items Google comes up with on any given day), and was surprised that I knew nothing about this connection, having read the study in question.

    Even if the inventor is personally making no money from the venture because it is going to a university they worked for, it seems like this is worth stating, to clear the air and keep everything transparent.

    A research study carried out by an inventor can certainly be correct in terms of its findings, and I don't doubt that it was, but if it's okay for the inventor to also be the tester who is saying "this works great" in a peer-reviewed journal, then why not disclose?

    I am not naming any names or the product in question, because no one else has yet, though I will say, many experts seem to think highly of it, it's one we run ads for, and seems to be very popular with consumers.

  41. theyareoutthere

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    Mon Oct 10 2011 22:04:32
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    I wasn't at the conference either and am relatively new, so this thread has gotten to the point where it seems like it needs a new thread on the recent issue. Hope that doesn't sound rude, but this seems like neither side is going to agree on some of the final points of the other side of the discussion.

    The two arguments are both right in a way, to my unscientific mind. It is common for items to be funded, or even reviewed, by a party with an interest. Even if a researcher gets no direct funds from a patent, the ability to obtain tenure used to be based on things like research grants obtained, articles published in scientific journals, etc. That is a form of compensation.

    There was an article in today's paper that drug companies still will not be required to disclose the relationship with doctors. This is an overall issue in a lot of industries. To my untrained eye, it seems relevent. It would impact my view of reliance on the efficacy of the product, if the main review is completed by someone who MAY have or where there may be the appearance of a vested interest in the sale of the product. It's hard to have a purely independent test in what appears to be a small world.

    On a separate matter, there probably should be a lot of "repeat" information each year of the basics, if 30% of the audience are property managers, government, etc vs PCOs and members of the scientific community. Just my opinion, and I'm opinionated Hope it didn't offend

  42. KillerQueen

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    Mon Oct 10 2011 23:17:46
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    My room was nice

  43. bed-bugscouk

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    Tue Oct 11 2011 4:24:21
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    KillerQueen - 5 hours ago  » 
    My room was nice

    Obviously you missed the pea I planted in your bed.

    David

  44. bed-bugscouk

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    Tue Oct 11 2011 4:59:13
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    Hi Jeff,

    That actually highlights part of the issue, if you stumbled across it recently then with all due respect you have not been doing your due diligence, either on the products you endorse or the speakers you engage.

    I take on board your comments about "own protocols" but I can assure you mine was no more complex than ensuring the passive was located in the correct place as per the instructions and to remove any isolation devices from the bed while it was being tested. Sadly the researcher failed to do this and instead placed the monitor between the box spring and mattress, I could equally ask why they decided to defy logic and do that but as I found out shortly after that they were on the patent I was not exactly surprised.

    I am sorry that you feel that my reviews and comments can at times feel as if they focus on the negative, it is certainly not my intention but at times someone does need to say when the emperor is in fact naked. Its also true to say that i have had longer in the specialist bedbug arena than others so I have more of a point of reference. Yes at times I express my opinions strongly but that is because I am passionate about what I see, I never give a maybe or maybe not opinion as I consider that to be worse than giving no opinion at all. I guess that one has something to do with my forces up bringing and my fathers insistence that we are judged by our actions in this world and that at the end of the day we only have ourselves to fall back on at the end of the day.

    As for focusing on the negative I would actually say that the positive input I have can been seen in projects such as the bedbug foundation where I have been extremely supportive with time and education as well as the insistence that the project must meet the needs of the home owner, the hospitality industry as well as the pest management industry. Respectfully if you view what I do as negative I would look at it from the consumers perspective, I am not challenging you, like a good scientist I challenge everything I see. Without people asking why and how we don't make advances in this world in any field let alone bedbugs.

    At times yes I will slam something that I find does not work and if the error in the product is large enough I will naturally challenge those who have endorsed it in the past. I would hope that most people would understand why and check their own procedures but some choose to dig in their heels and argue back. Thankfully those who know me well enough know that I always think things through to a complete and logical conclusion before entering into wider discussions. I look forward to your comments on my latest testing which will be out in a week or so.

    David

    PS Nice dodge on all the questions in my post.

  45. JWhiteBBCTV

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    Tue Oct 11 2011 15:38:48
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    David, and that's why we disagree professionally as often as we do. You're a black and white person as you just said. You don't do "maybe or maybe not" and that's fine. I can respect that. I rarely think things are that clear-cut and if you want to build your career on that approach, all the power to you.

    As for my due-diligence, we heard about the product, tested it in the field, found it to be valuable and a good tool and promoted it due to it's fit in a bed bug treatment protocol. This was well before any of these tests that this thread has become about. Beyond that, I don't care who's on the patent or what it's patented for. I hardely consider that not doing my due-diligence.

    As for your questions in your previous post, I don't nor want to try to convince you of anything. I just try to pose a different view of some of the things you originally state. As I just said, you are typically very one side or the other and you're well-respected on this site so people listen. I just want to make sure that when you do provide a right or left argument for or against something, if I think there is a gray area that people hear about it. Just trying to provide a balanced view.

    As for your comments about 2010 and 2011 tests, just because you didn't agree with the methodology doesn't mean it was done that way for nefarious reasons. You want to be a conspiracy theorist, be my guest.

  46. bed-bugscouk

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    Tue Oct 11 2011 15:48:30
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    JWhiteBBCTV - 6 minutes ago  » You want to be a conspiracy theorist, be my guest.

    It's OK proof seems to be rather easy to come by in this world.

    The wheels are now well and truly in motion and I am sure things will now progress to their logical conclusion.

    David

  47. KillerQueen

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    Tue Oct 11 2011 20:42:04
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    bed-bugscouk - 1 week ago  » 

    KillerQueen - 14 minutes ago  » 
    A clown from NYC? Who could have done such a thing? Should I host the video?

    It would be rude not to and I hear Harris will be after you if you don't.
    David

    Not a video for the weak. http://www.facebook.com/bootapest

  48. JWhiteBBCTV

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    Wed Oct 12 2011 9:44:42
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    Hey David,

    I would caution you to use the exact protocol that the tests use if you're looking to replicate the results. We've found that running tests within different rooms in our building can create different results. More impotantly, different strains and colonies of bed bugs can also create different results. Field collected bugs behave completely differently compared to bugs that have been in a lab for 3 months vs. bugs that have been in a lab for years.

    If you're completing your own test, the only thing I would mention is to use populations that have adjusted to lab settings before you run the test. I would hate to see you spend the time and have your results questioned because of a strain of bugs or room you tested in.

    Then again, you probably know this. Just trying to save you time and headaches.

    Jeff

  49. bed-bugscouk

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    Wed Oct 12 2011 14:21:40
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    Hi Jeff,

    This is exactly why I prefer to do field based projects, to catch bedbugs in their natural state and to see how they behave in a "normal" environment. Its why I have always been so confident about the data we have collected because its from normal conditions and has no strain bias.

    Given your admission that you get different results in different rooms in the same building I think its fair to say that either you need to up the repetitions before drawing conclusion or the only conclusion you can draw is that experiments should only be conducted in the field. This would appear to contradict the conclusions drawn in the meeting and thus invalidate the results by your own admission.

    To replicate the data that was presented in Chicago I would have to travel to the lab at Rutgers which I don't think I would be welcome to do and personally at this stage I would not want to be associated with their research approach as it seems as if it would fail our ethics policy.

    Sorry if this comes across as negative but I am only using my scientific training and principles to reply to the comments you made.

    David

  50. JWhiteBBCTV

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    Wed Oct 12 2011 14:54:51
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    Ugghhhhh, you're impossible. That's the conclusion I draw from this. I try to extend the olive branch and be friendly and you tell me everything I do if it's not in the field is invalid because it doesn't match your standards. Do you try to be this difficult or is it just your nature?

    Again, you're working in a black and white world. Field research is extremely difficult to do with bed bugs. You need a place to do it where there are lots of bed bug infestations, property managers that will allow you to do it, tenants that will allow you to do it, semi-predicatable infestations to take the variability out or tons of replications, all which can takes months and sometimes years to achieve. Lab results can provide you insight into which products may or may not work best when applied in the field. That's it. If you take Rutgers or any others lab studies and say that study said this or that monitor didn't work when used in the lab and therefore it won't ever work, that's you or anybody elses fault for not understanding research.

    I agree the work needs to be done in the field to draw final conclusions, it's just not realistic in all settings and can take years to achieve. So instead lets do quick and dirty lab studies to provide insight while these field studies are worked on. I guarantee 80-90% of the time the results of the lab studies play out similarly in the field.

    I don't even know why I entertain you. My conscience tells me to stop and walk away because this is going nowhere but here I am....

  51. bed-bugscouk

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    Wed Oct 12 2011 15:28:37
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    Jeff,

    I am only commenting on what you have said, if you will write things I have no choice but to think about them and reply as best as I can.

    I am black or white because some issues are actually that clear. Some things work and others don't. Some things add value and other simply add expense. In the case of the later I will always wear my consumer hat and advise people against wasting their money. I know from PM comments and remarks people make when they meet me or reach out for help it is appreciated.

    I am not sure of anyone else would view your posts as an olive branch (I may be wrong there and people feel free to chip in) but without people challenging what is said there is no healthy debate. I realize that part of the business model of the organization you work for is based on the idea that you are the go to people for bedbugs but to assume that you have it 100% right all the time is possibly a mahoosive flaw in that model.

    I will at some stage hold you to your word on that you "guarantee 80-90% of the time the results of the lab studies play out similarly in the field". I can think of at least 2 or 3 occasions when I personally know that not to be true.

    I can offer the answer to why you entertain me, its because deep down in your sub conscious you know well enough that I am more often write than wrong and that when we disagree although I may not always show my hand of cards on day one you just cant resist trying to work out if I am bluffing or not. We I can assure you that the next subject we will disagree on I am 150% right and have the two degrees to prove it, I just need to find a few hours to write up the results.

    David

  52. jeffklein

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    Wed Oct 12 2011 18:19:07
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    My two cents as far as the Summit was it provided a good range of ideas, research, people and products. I didn't agree with everything stated (especially the Heat Treatment research pointing towards escape but then I have five years of real world results)(and we monitor wall void temperatures). Overall I feel it was worth the time and energy to attend. The lecture on liability scared the heck out of me and probably saved me a lot of expense. I met some crazy (think clown) and some brilliant (think leather) people and thoroughly enjoyed the discourse and fellowship. The gentleman from BEAP had some amazing monitors and we intend to start using them to pest proof buildings. The info on fumigation, canines, chemical treatments, resistance, heat treatments, biology, the visit from the EPA, all shed light on what is going on in the industry as a whole. I am glad I went.

    Bed Bug and Thermal Remediation Specialist
    Please email me directly for support. Thank you.
  53. JWhiteBBCTV

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    Wed Oct 12 2011 19:15:10
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    Thanks Jeff, and that's actually what I wanted to return this thread to, it's original purpose. If anybody has any insight, thoughts or experiences on this years Summit, please feel free to share in the thread or e-mail me at jeff.white@bedbugcentral.com We're always looking to get better at what we do and any feedback or ideas are always appreciated.

    Thanks for those that have already asked questions, provided experiences and ideas and I apologize for David and myself's back and forth on a relatively unrelated topic (from what the thread was intended).

  54. blargg

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    Wed Oct 12 2011 19:56:58
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    Jeff,

    Your BBTV youtube videos are awwwwesome by the way.
    Kudos to you for educating the people.

  55. JWhiteBBCTV

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    Wed Oct 12 2011 21:11:15
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    Thank you much, updating a bunch of the older ones is next on the hit list.

  56. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Wed Oct 12 2011 22:29:54
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    I appreciate that both of you are here, Jeff and David.

    And I have to say, I also really appreciate the civil nature of the discussion.

    But it probably is best to take this conversation back to the Summit.

  57. Canuck

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Thu Oct 13 2011 13:50:13
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    I second Nobugsonme's point. Very appreciative to the contributors, especially both Jeff and David. Better than Coronation Street and Days of Our Lives mixed together in one spot.

  58. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Thu Oct 13 2011 15:12:38
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    Just keepin it "real" what can I say.

    David

  59. jeffklein

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Wed Oct 19 2011 15:49:01
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    Some of the facts I took away from the summit:
    46% of those bitten have a delayed reaction of over one week.
    Adults vs Nymphs is about 1:3 Out of this 80% is 1st and 2nd stage nymph
    Management companies and Hotels must have a written action, engagement and follow-up plan in place. Detailed records must be kept. Landlords have a duty to protect and as such must a) warn tenants when there is an issue, b) evict tenants who interfere or are non-cooperative c) must assist tenants who are mobility impaired with preparation and d) must provide for periodic inspections (Duty to investigate). This is as per Jeffrey M Lipman, a trial attorney who is in the process of bringing several million dollar class action suits against Property Management and Hotel companies. In addition there has to be a reasonableness of the inspection and warning. As managers there is an Implied Warranty of Liability. There should be no communication verbally as all communication needs to be tracked. If a tenant or client refuses treatment or inspection you must get a signed copy of the refusal.
    Reproduction Potential: Dr. Phil Koehler University of Florida
    Home- 10 weeks- 35 thousand, Subway- 10 weeks-25 thousand, Clothing Store-10 weeks- 1000, Office-10 weeks-10,000. Long meals give bed bugs greater breeding ability. In a home in 12-16 weeks the bed bugs can grow to a level that is harmful to the occupants.
    C02 Flush using a cartridge such as a bike tire inflator or a bed inflator is a good test. Must be held static in one area(best to discharge over the bed). Insects will emerge from cracks and crevices. Out of all monitors black climb-ups had the highest catch rate. Canines were still the number one detection tool. Dry ice in a climb-up makes a good home made trap but has a liability issue for professionals.
    Richard Naylor University of Sheffield:
    One insect (ONE!!!) can start a building wide infestation. The tropical bed bug may be here now
    Dr Dini Miller: No Pest Strips did not work in 14 days on soft items. Location of items in the bag affected mortality. The nymphal stage survived. When vacuuming use a stocking to cover the end of the suction tube. After vacuuming throw away stocking(think bed bug filter). The dryer and heat boxes are very effective at killing bed bugs and their eggs.
    Thermal treatment coupled with chemicals is a home run! (but I knew that already)

  60. jrbtnyc

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Wed Oct 19 2011 18:57:07
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    jeffklein - 3 hours ago  » 
    Some of the facts I took away from the summit:
    46% of those bitten have a delayed reaction of over one week.
    ...
    C02 Flush using a cartridge such as a bike tire inflator or a bed inflator is a good test. Must be held static in one area(best to discharge over the bed). Insects will emerge from cracks and crevices.
    ...

    Jeff K. can you elaborate on these two items, and/or can others who were at the summit do so.

    The delayed reaction – wow, 46% of instances > one week – is really important for people to know about in my view, because so many false alarms can result from such. For instance, how many times do people on a business trip get bug welts just after staying in a particular hotel, but got bitten not at that hotel but at one where they had stayed at a few days or a week or more earlier? Furthermore: if someone gets bitten, say, ten times, and has a delayed reaction, will the ten resulting welts all appear exactly at exactly the same time or will their appearance be spread out over a day or more – thus adding to the confusion? Additional question: if 46% of people reacted only after more than 7 days, what percentage reacted after more than, say, 24 hours, as opposed to what perecentage reacted within 24 hours? Does this topic merit its own thread.

    Then, the CO2 as a means of flushing out bb's sounds very intriguing. Have there been discussions about this previously on bedbugger.com, and are experts/practitioners aware of this as a possibly useful tool. Likewise does this topic merit its own thread.

  61. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri Oct 21 2011 6:30:22
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    Hi jrbtnyc,

    No CO2 flushing does not warrant its own thread because it only works if the bedbugs are extremely hungry and have not had a source of food in some time. It was discussed in Chicago last year and I have repeated the experiment in field conditions and am yet to get it to work in the same way it was demonstrated on video because the locations we treat are usually occupied.

    It only really works if you are inspecting a property that has not been occupied for a few weeks and then quality visual inspection is still the gold standard if you have access to experienced people.

    David

  62. jrbtnyc

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Fri Oct 21 2011 16:58:51
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    bed-bugscouk - 10 hours ago  » 
    Hi jrbtnyc,
    No CO2 flushing does not warrant its own thread because it only works if the bedbugs are extremely hungry and have not had a source of food in some time. ...

    Ah, so the way it's supposed to work is the CO2 attracts the bb's to come out thinking food is nearby, so it only works when they're very hungry? In that case I misinterpreted Jeff K.'s brief synopsis from which I thought, because he used the term "CO2 flush", it meant the CO2 in sufficient amounts caused the bb's not to be able to breathe so they were forced out as opposed to being enticed out. So, glad to have that clarification.

  63. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Sat Oct 22 2011 15:32:08
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    Hi,

    The way the paper was presented was in fact as flushing but the reality is that it only works as a burst that attracts only hungry bedbugs. It's why prolonged CO2 product wins the race in normal situations, very much a tortoise versus rabbit scenario.

    David

  64. jeffklein

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Sun Nov 6 2011 11:55:27
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    I agree. In a population of bed bugs (like my clutch of 2500) there are always those individuals that will feed given every chance they can. I have one female that would feed every other day or more if she was given the chance. It may be because she is a spectacular egg layer and this drives her quest for nourishment.

  65. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Sun Nov 6 2011 19:06:13
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    jeffklein - 7 hours ago  » 
    I agree. In a population of bed bugs (like my clutch of 2500) there are always those individuals that will feed given every chance they can. I have one female that would feed every other day or more if she was given the chance. It may be because she is a spectacular egg layer and this drives her quest for nourishment.

    Jeff has an Uber-bed bug with an insatiable desire for blood (and should we presume also an unstoppable egg output?)

    Sounds like the basis for another bed bug horror novel.

  66. theyareoutthere

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    Posted 8 years ago
    Sun Nov 6 2011 19:26:56
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    Question for Jeff:

    If she is a spectacular egg layer, how many eggs a day?
    Does it differ depending on if she is being fed or not?
    Do you isolate her from time to time to figure this stuff out?
    How old is she?

  67. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Sun Feb 19 2012 22:55:39
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    This post is being UN-stuck.

    Please use the link at top to add it to your favorites and/or subscribe to updates.

  68. djames1921

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Tue Feb 21 2012 20:42:46
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    Here's my Chicago update: I still haven't figured out who charged their lunch to me TWICE! I will continue the hunt until my prey is captured or my packtite freezes over.


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