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Can visible dust powder (cimexa) drive bed bugs to dormancy?

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  1. yikes_bugs

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Mon Feb 22 2016 15:08:19
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    I had sprayed Cimexa all through the apartment cracks and crevices including baseboards, bed frames, legs of couch, beds, closet etc, on the carper under beds and chests. This is not heaps but layers which are sometimes visible. I know the advice is that the layer should not be visible, but how much ever we try I am sure some are visible to the bugs who are much closer to the spraying. I can clearly see some of the application as well so I am sure the bugs see them.

    I have not seen a single bug in the past 2.5 months since I laid the Cimexa down. There have been spme suspicious bites and blood spots on sheets but the interceptors are empty and so are the passive monitors and my daughter who shows signs immediately hasn’t shown any.

    I am wondering if the bugs can see the Cimexa and hence have gone into dormancy because they know they will die if they walk on it OR is it that I don’t have them anymore.

    Can experts comment based on their experience?

  2. BigDummy

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Mon Feb 22 2016 15:19:53
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    You're giving them too much credit, they don't know about Cimexa. I'd imagine they'd be pretty pissed if they found out about it though...

  3. loubugs

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Mon Feb 22 2016 16:20:20
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    BigDummy - 54 minutes ago  » 
    You're giving them too much credit, they don't know about Cimexa. I'd imagine they'd be pretty pissed if they found out about it though...

    Agreed. They don't "know" about anything like people have knowledge and can apply it to present and future. There is simple learning, but it doesn't equate toward dormancy.

    Professional entomologist/arachnologist. I consult on all matters dealing with insects and arachnids, including those of natural history and biology to pest management and forensic entomology investigations.
  4. yikes_bugs

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Mon Feb 22 2016 17:42:25
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    Thanks Big Dummy and Dr. Sorkin. I was asking because I have heard that bed bugs communicate danger via phremones. So if one bug goes out and starts drying (or feeling hot) or whatever cimexa does, it will warn the others.

    I am wondering if one after the other anyone who goes out keeps dying, some bugs may decide to just not go. I know, this is human logic and probably too much for bugs..but these guys have survived for years and can jump from ceilings to avoid interceptors

  5. yikes_bugs

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Tue Feb 23 2016 23:57:53
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    Lou and Big ...any word on my thought on pheromones from other bugs who might have walked over it and died and hence leading to other bugs going dormant. Apologies if this is a stupid discussion.

  6. loubugs

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Wed Feb 24 2016 5:04:44
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    yikes_bugs - 1 day ago  » 
    Thanks Big Dummy and Dr. Sorkin. I was asking because I have heard that bed bugs communicate danger via phremones. So if one bug goes out and starts drying (or feeling hot) or whatever cimexa does, it will warn the others.
    I am wondering if one after the other anyone who goes out keeps dying, some bugs may decide to just not go. I know, this is human logic and probably too much for bugs..but these guys have survived for years and can jump from ceilings to avoid interceptors

    Pheromones are used by many insects. The bugs don't have human logic. They don't just from ceilings to avoid interceptors. They can climb up and will lose footing on ceilings and sometimes walls and will fall. They don't jump.

  7. loubugs

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Wed Feb 24 2016 5:06:49
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    yikes_bugs - 5 hours ago  » 
    Lou and Big ...any word on my thought on pheromones from other bugs who might have walked over it and died and hence leading to other bugs going dormant. Apologies if this is a stupid discussion.

    I wouldn't worry about any pheromones and dormancy. It doesn't work that way in your scenario.

  8. jim danca

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Wed Feb 24 2016 8:26:29
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    I believe they have detected alarm pheromones in the lab, but in the real world I don't think it plays much of a role.

    PCO and inventor of a bio active bedbug trap
  9. loubugs

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Wed Feb 24 2016 13:11:12
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    jim danca - 4 hours ago  » 
    I believe they have detected alarm pheromones in the lab, but in the real world I don't think it plays much of a role.

    Actually it does. The bugs aren't thinking, but when specific chemicals are there and produced in certain low amounts or high amounts and also in combination with one another, there is a behavioral response. Attraction, repulsion, stop; feeding, mating, etc. There is also vision and touch (and chemoreception with touch, too).

  10. jim danca

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Wed Feb 24 2016 17:12:37
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    Lou, I'm interested in how it would pertain to the age old isolation debate. For instance, pretend there's a high number of bugs present after bombs have been set off. The person isolates the bed with interception devices. What percentage of bugs will readily commit to going into the interceptors vs. which percentage of bugs will wait for a bed sheet to fall to the floor and circumvent the devices. Do you think it's possible that some of the bugs stuck in the interceptors give off an 'alarm' to the other bugs to warn them? Do you think adult bedbugs would be more predisposed to warn younger bugs? And wouldn't nymphs rely more on olfaction? I believe David Cain still maintains that isolation can prolong a bedbug situation.

  11. loubugs

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Wed Feb 24 2016 17:32:16
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    jim danca - 9 minutes ago  » 
    Lou, I'm interested in how it would pertain to the age old isolation debate. For instance, pretend there's a high number of bugs present after bombs have been set off. The person isolates the bed with interception devices. What percentage of bugs will readily commit to going into the interceptors vs. which percentage of bugs will wait for a bed sheet to fall to the floor and circumvent the devices. Do you think it's possible that some of the bugs stuck in the interceptors give off an 'alarm' to the other bugs to warn them? Do you think adult bedbugs would be more predisposed to warn younger bugs? And wouldn't nymphs rely more on olfaction? I believe David Cain still maintains that isolation can prolong a bedbug situation.

    The bugs aren't people. They don't understand future. Interceptor devices can be blind interception or can attract because of construction, so bugs can crawl in. Granted there are some videos out there that shows certain bugs crawl up the interceptor, but don't just fall in. There are some in the population that aren't being attracted or blindly falling in because they just haven't gotten there or they're staying where they are at the moment and not moving anywhere. If soem come across a sheet on the floor, they can crawl onto it; if it goes up and onto the bed, they might crawl up and gain access to the bed. Some bugs when bothered produce larger amounts of the active pheromone chemicals; some can be stuck in glue and maybe just in a monitor device, but maybe not. These bugs aren't thinking of protecting younger bugs when producing the active chemicals. Olfaction is picking up on odors and the antennae have receptors to pick up on odors. If you give bed bugs many places to go such as interceptors of all types and you are bait, then they can be collected in interceptors, but this might not pertain to 100% of the bugs present. Interceptors simply left in the room (not under legs of beds or sofas) will capture bed bugs so there is no bait. Sometimes the interceptors do not work well for some reasons.

  12. yikes_bugs

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Wed Feb 24 2016 20:12:56
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    loubugs - 6 hours ago  » 

    jim danca - 4 hours ago  » 
    I believe they have detected alarm pheromones in the lab, but in the real world I don't think it plays much of a role.

    Actually it does. The bugs aren't thinking, but when specific chemicals are there and produced in certain low amounts or high amounts and also in combination with one another, there is a behavioral response. Attraction, repulsion, stop; feeding, mating, etc. There is also vision and touch (and chemoreception with touch, too).

    Lou, If bugs can give out chemicals to give a 'Stop' signal as you mentioned above, wont a bed bug that went out and touched Cimexa and then got burned give a 'Stop' signal. Or are you trying to stay that they dont understand causation i.e. I am burning because I went out and touched something?

    Then I am curious why have you suggested several times to put an invisible layer of dust? I understand to not put thick layers since they will avoid it, but why invisible?

  13. loubugs

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Thu Feb 25 2016 5:30:31
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    yikes_bugs - 9 hours ago  » 

    loubugs - 6 hours ago  » 

    jim danca - 4 hours ago  » 
    I believe they have detected alarm pheromones in the lab, but in the real world I don't think it plays much of a role.

    Actually it does. The bugs aren't thinking, but when specific chemicals are there and produced in certain low amounts or high amounts and also in combination with one another, there is a behavioral response. Attraction, repulsion, stop; feeding, mating, etc. There is also vision and touch (and chemoreception with touch, too).

    Lou, If bugs can give out chemicals to give a 'Stop' signal as you mentioned above, wont a bed bug that went out and touched Cimexa and then got burned give a 'Stop' signal. Or are you trying to stay that they dont understand causation i.e. I am burning because I went out and touched something?
    Then I am curious why have you suggested several times to put an invisible layer of dust? I understand to not put thick layers since they will avoid it, but why invisible?

    No. You're making them out to be human or at least some vertebrate animal with a larger brain. The stop reaction is to make them not continue to crawl about but to stop; it is an arrestant chemical called histamine. It's not getting burned by CimeXa. They don't understand causation. You don't need to produce clouds of the powder to have it work. Large amounts are picked up (sensed) by the bug as it crawls and it will move around it rather than crawl through it.

  14. yikes_bugs

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Thu Feb 25 2016 20:38:16
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    Thanks Lou. Thanks for all the help. My final question is: When are you going to come out with a simple solution to get rid of this havoc (kidding :))?


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