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bugman company says they only need to treat once???

(6 posts)
  1. naconia3

    Joined: Dec '11
    Posts: 1


    Posted 7 years ago
    Mon Dec 19 2011 6:45:23

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    bugman company came out and treated friday. i found 6 dead ones and 2 slow moving live ones. should i worry? do they need to retreat? are the bugs going to move to my other rooms?? help. no one will give me a straight answer. i have kept my family out of that room and am disposing of the furniture in there. i havethrown out tons of bedding and pillows and i am still washing/drying clothes. they say they treated my other beds.

    does my home need to be retreated immediately? do I need to wait.? are those bugs going to migrate? is this company legit? charged 500 to treat and fog and say they will not need to come back. they always do it once????

  2. bed-bugscouk

    Joined: Apr '07
    Posts: 18,188


    Posted 7 years ago
    Mon Dec 19 2011 7:13:47

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    Some infestations can be cleared in a single treatment, it all depends on:

    • How heavy the infestation was
    • What the source of the infestation is
    • How thorough the treatment is / was
    • what methods have been used

    You are also more likley to get a single treatment success with an experienced bedbug specialist who deploys advanced methods to resolve the issue.

    The points however that raise concern from a technical perspective with your post are:

    • The room does not appear to be occupied during treatment which usually results in failure and/or spread of bedbugs to other rooms
    • You do not need to dispose of items as a result of bedbugs, just about everything can be decontaminated
    • Fogging is not a recommended solution with bedbugs

    If you include a little more detail on what was done, names of products and thoroughness we may be in a better position to help you.

    In the mean time I would recommend reading through the FAQ's so you bedbug knowledge is brought up to speed.

    Hope that helps.

    David Cain
    Bed Bugs Limited

    I am happy to answer questions in public but will not reply to message sent directly or via my company / social media. I am here to help everyone and not just one case at a time.

    In accordance with the AUP and FTC I openly disclose my vested interest in Passive Monitors as the inventor and patent holder. Since 2009 they have become an integral part in how we resolve bed bug infestations. I also have a professional relationship with PackTite in that they distribute my product under their own branding. I do not however receive any financial remuneration for any comments I make about pro
  3. soretit

    junior member
    Joined: Nov '11
    Posts: 80


    Posted 7 years ago
    Mon Dec 19 2011 10:45:02

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    David quite correctly did not say the firm who treated you are any good or not as he is in the same business.
    A true professional lets another firm establish if its no good or not.

    I am not a pro which means I am not expert enough to make a judgement on them for different reasons.
    No competent firm would just do one treatment and leave it at that.

    I assume they are going to return to check out how effective their treatment was?
    If not then they don't appear to have any worries about you or your abode.

    Also it seems to be generally agreed that fogging or using 'bombs' is NOT a good way to treat an infestation, the reasons why I wont go into detail.

    The best person to make decisions is you, yourself.
    All you lack is a little knowledge.

    So dont panic, just read all the stuff David talked about and the FAQs (= frequently asked questions) on the Forums page on this site.

    You dont need to be a rocket scientist to understand it all, its real good commonsense advice based on practical experience .

    You have come to the right place to get help so you are definitely on the way to getting your problem sorted.
    Read, then understand what you are reading, and then make up your mind what to do next.
    It so much easier if you do it in that order.
    You will then be able to decide better what kind of treatment a firm should be using and ask them the right questions.
    When you find one who sounds good engage them to sort out your place.

    I was just in your position 5 weeks ago, but delayed much longer than you seem to have done in finding this site.
    That means you are more on the ball than me.
    And I can tell you this site really helps.

    PS reputable firms dont blanket post their product on every thread.
    They answer each question individually, or not at all.
    I hope the site has a policy in place for spammers., Narconia, because you need knowledge first. products second.

  4. buggyinsocal

    Joined: Jun '08
    Posts: 2,431


    Posted 7 years ago
    Mon Dec 19 2011 12:07:37

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    None of us have been in your home, so none of us have seen what your infestation looked like when it started.

    As a result, no one here can say with any amount of certainty exactly how many treatments your place would require.

    However, it seems as if your thread has been attended by folks who are in the middle of a rather larger argument, and your post sounds like you're pretty stressed, so I thought I'd add a few things. First of all, understand that there are a lot of regular posters here who, like any group of professionals and deeply interested amateurs, are often passionately engaged in ongoing debates about the topics that cause debate in the field we're all interested in. Sometimes those debates spill over into threads posted by newbies who are really anxious, and the threads often go in directions that seem to have little to do with the original post. That seems to be the phenomenon at work here. If people start slinging zingers at each other in this thread, it's likely because of stuff going on in other threads which you might not have read. Don't take it personally; it's not about you.

    There are some forms of treatment that, if done properly, should remove all the bugs from even an advanced infestation in one treatment. Using a structural heat treatment (when large heaters are brought in to raise the temperature inside the whole home to over 120 degrees for hours on end) or having the place tented and fumigated with a higher concentration of Vikane than is generally used for termites, for example, both have a very successful rate when done properly. There are limitations and downsides to both these forms of treatment (including external temperature at time of treatment, possible damage to items inside the home, lack of protection from ongoing exposure to bugs if you can't sort out the vector of infestation, the fact that Vikane cannot be done on single units within a multi-unit building, the fact that these treatments are not available everywhere, etc.)

    Good PCOs have enough experience to understand the specifics of a particular infestation, and as a result they generally use a combination of techniques to maximize the benefits and minimize the downsides to any one particular treatment. For example, a PCO might treat with heat and then apply some residual chemicals or dusts as a back up against reinfestation.

    Some of the PCOs who are most experienced with bed bugs can, actually, get rid of a small, contained infestation when it is caught early in a single treatment without using the full frontal assault style treatments like heat or Vikane.

    Please remember that when we're reading your post, we don't know what your original infestation looked like. Your post doesn't even say how long you think the bed bugs were there. That's not a criticism of your post; that's an explanation for why you're going to get some variance in the answers you get since there is more than one possible right answer to some of your questions--including whether one treatment is enough to get rid of the problem and whether you should trust a pest management company that says they can get rid of bed bugs in a single treatment.

    I'm explaining that because my opinion is that reading Soretit's post might give you an impression that is not entirely true. There are reputable PCOs out there who would be able to treat an infestation in a single treatment. Where Soretit is half-right is that the handful of PCOs I've seen here whose opinions I trust are not the sort of folks to run around bragging that they could treat an infestation in one treatment because they know how complex bed bug infestations can be because there are so many variables involved. Again, one-off treatments like Vikane and heat are a different ballgame; unless something goes wrong, Vikane and structural heat should work in one treatment. If the PCO used dry vapor steamers to zap the majority of the bugs, and if the PCO had reason to believe that the bugs had't migrated to hard to reach placed, and if the treatment took a long time (which may be a sign that they did extensive steaming), and if the infestation was small and contained and caught early, then a one time treatment might have worked.

    On the other hand, we've generally heard from experts that most fogging or bombing is a bad idea with bed bugs. The foggers that are available to consumers are generally loaded with chemicals that don't work well on bed bugs. In fact, they tend to make the problem worse.

    That said, we also don't know whether the PCO used exactly those words with you. Even if the PCO did, sometimes when PCOs are explaining technical things to clients who don't know much about pest control, they may use imprecise terms to the clients in trying to make a point to someone who doesn't have a lot of technical background.

    In short, there's a lot we don't know about the situation that naconia3 is describing.

    If you can provide the forum with a bit more information, we can likely be more help. Bed bug treatments are complex, and exactly how effective any particular one will be depends on a lot of factors.

    For example, did your PCO give you a list of what chemicals were applied? Sometimes as laypeople we use terms that aren't exactly correct (see my points above), and you'll likely get more helpful advice if the regulars here know what chemical pesticides and other substances were applied in your home.

    Also, did your PCO know that the room with the infestation was unoccupied or that it would be unoccupied after treatment? My understanding is that many chemical treatments rely on us acting as bait to be most effective. That is to say, the PCO puts down a residual chemical pesticide--something that the bugs must cross, and after crossing it and coming in contact with it, the bug will eventually be affected by the chemicals in the pesticide. As it was explained to me years ago, bed bugs don't come into as much contact with residual pesticides as some other common household pests like roaches and ants. As a result, you need a live mammal--preferably a human--sleeping in the room or rooms that have had residuals applied so that once the bed bug is engorged with a meal, its belly is more likely to get dragged across the residual as it scurries back to its harborage. (I apologize for being so graphic, but, unfortunately, my understanding is that it's important to know these things.) If the bug isn't eating, it's coming into less contact with the pesticides, which means that they take longer to kill.

    In other words, as clients sometimes we do things that we don't think have an effect on how effective a treatment is that do, in fact, have an effect on treatment. As another example, many people vacuum and/or mop after treatment. This is a perfectly natural reaction to having an insect that many people consider to be vermin in our home, but doing so can remove the treatments laid down by the PCO.

    Every PCO has a slightly different approach, and some PCOs take more than one approach in a particular infestation. For that reason, it's really hard for anyone to give 100% reliable advice about how good a treatment or a claim is without knowing a lot more than we know based on your post.

    Again, absolutely none of what I've just said is meant as a criticism of what you've done or posted. I just wanted you to understand why it can be so hard to get one clear answer when all you want is this horrible insect out of your home.

    If a company says that they have a very high success rate with one treatment, the question I would ask is what their policy on retreatment is. Many companies have clear standards for how much and what kind of proof they need to in order to come out and retreat.

    With bed bugs, it's normal to see some bugs post treatment--esp. after a first treatment. However, how long after a treatment you may continue to see bugs varies widely.

    I hope some of that helps, and if you post more specifics, people here may be able to offer even more help.


    While I'm a big fan of thermal treatment overall, when done properly, I'm less of a fan of a PCO who provides thermal coming onto the boards and telling someone who's just spent money on chemical treatment how awesome thermal is--especially when that provider may not be in the same country as the person who just posted in what is clearly a pretty anxious mental state.

    Also keep in mind that some of us don't own a home; in many places, renters are beholden to landlords when it comes to what kind of treatment we get. I was lucky in that my landlord was willing to take my opinion into consideration, but that's seldom the case. I was also lucky in that at the time I got bed bugs, I could afford to pay for the treatment I wanted; that is not always the case, and when you're dealing with renters, that's very often the case.

    I understand that often the cost of thermal is less over the long run than the total costs of chemical. However, for people who don't have top-tier financial resources--people who live paycheck to paycheck, who don't have access to credit, people who are stuck in a bad financial situation--the upfront cost of thermal--no matter how much they may want to go that route--just isn't a realistic option.

    I would be much more inclined to look favorably on a particular business that seemed to show some awareness of that. The posts you've made read to me like you're calling people who cannot afford heat treatment or people whose landlords won't allow heat treatment stupid. That may not be your intent; even I cannot measure intent from a post online. But I thought you might want to be aware that your words are having that effect on readers even if that effect is counter to your intentions.

    I am not a big fan of chemical pesticides; I prefer to use more natural means whenever possible to treat pests in the home. (This is largely because I live very close to the results of DDT production. That Superfund site that Monstrose Chemical created between the end of WWII and the year I was born (and I'm 40 years old) has a lot to do with my general skepticism about the notion that chemical companies will always do what's best for all of us. I suspect that living so close to that reminder of how companies behaved badly in the past makes me more likely to worry about what we'll find out 40 years from now about what chemical companies are doing right now.

    However, my personal preference should not dictate to others what their decisions are, especially when many people don't have a lot of choice in what their pest control is. There are plenty of people who have no other choice but to go with chemical treatment because that's the decision that their landlords have made. Having been infested with bed bugs and being familiar with how acute the level of anxiety is, I try to temper my own personal opinions about what the best treatments are by reminding myself that other rational people can look at the same evidence that I do and come to different conclusions, and some people don't have the ability to make that decision on their own because the decision is being made for them. I try not to increase their anxiety levels, which, frankly, your post will do.

    If your goal is to earn credibility for your company, GregK, I think you're doing your company a disservice by appearing to be so defensive in response to the criticisms that have been offered by folks like Lou Sorkin and David Cain. Those are two folks who've been in the bed bug arena for a very long time. I've been on the boards long enough to know that Lou doesn't have a horse in the thermal or chemical treatment race; he's an entomologist who just cares that people get the information about bed bugs right. He studied the bugs for years when no one else did, and there are few people who know as much about bed bugs as he does (mostly other academics and a handful of PCOs, and very few of them volunteer their time here because they have such an overwhelming drive to be sure other people get information about bed bugs right). If he's offering (as he is in another thread) advice about the accuracy of the info about bed bugs on your website, that's free advice from an expert, and rather than dismissing it, it might behoove you to take the advice and improve the site's appearance--not only in terms of improving the credibility of your site but also in terms of earning you and your company more respect from people who read the thread.

    David Cain is not a big fan of thermal, but he's also in an entirely different country, and as Nobugsonme has reminded us more than once, sometimes there are basic differences from country to country that make different treatment strategies make sense. For example, the box springs in the UK, I understand, are very different from those common in North America. I don't see how that would make thermal less effective, but I'm not in the UK, so I may not be the best person to comment on those differences.

    Again, if your goal, GregK, is to improve the reputation of your company, you would impress me a great deal more if you responded with reasoned posts that showed your willingness to hear what others had to say and/or if you took into account the emotional state that many of your potential clients are in when they're dealing with bed bugs for the first time. I'm not seeing much of that in this thread, and it's leaving a bad taste in my mouth, which makes me sad since I had thermal treatment and am, as a result, a big fan of it. You, of course, don't have to be concerned about my opinion; I don't do this for a living. I do, however, think and teach about effective arguments for a living, and right now, your posts aren't making very strong ones in my mind.

  5. soretit

    junior member
    Joined: Nov '11
    Posts: 80


    Posted 7 years ago
    Mon Dec 19 2011 13:23:54

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    Sorry about my part in all that, Narconia.

    One thing to put your mind at rest is to send a short private message to Nobugsonme with the name and address of the company who treated your home.
    I think she might be able to work out if that company is well established and legit or not.

    Nobugsonme runs this site and that might sort out at least one part of whats worrying you.

  6. theyareoutthere

    Joined: Sep '11
    Posts: 3,255


    Posted 7 years ago
    Mon Dec 19 2011 23:07:08

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    Narconia 3,

    BuggyinSoCal provided you good advice. There are great PCOs out there and the FAQs section provides a lot of information, too.

    I've had a thread taken over by other parties. It rarely happens here, but it tends to happen with new PCOs who don't know the rules. They come on, post an ad on every thread, and then there's a reaction since no consumer really wants to come and just scroll through ads/spam.

    Good luck!


    = TAOT

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