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after 4 months of bagged living: killerqueen says never had them!

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  1. killdienow

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Wed Apr 25 2012 9:57:28
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    found a bug in dec. confirmed as bedbug by western pest company (do not hire! ) they sprayed especially after the dog confirmed an issue. 4 months of feeling like i would never know if they were gone and 7 additional dead bugs found: i call killerqueen.
    i had just steamed my couch and found 2 more bugs.

    after emailing with him and telling him i was sure they were bedbugs: he comes to inspect. looks through my samples : (save all your samples!!!)
    and says i never had bedbugs!

    he believed they are "odd beetle". im taking them up to the natural history musuem today to have the entomologist confirm! i cannot believe this! i can unpack!!!

    sooo crazy.

    do not do what i did! namely: trust western pest (not that i did but my building contracts with them ) and i waited without further help. The truth is: if you are in NY, dont waste your time or money with anyone else. 4 months!

    I was expecting hed give me the "all clear" and Id be dubious. He didnt even have to check my apartment. He just looked at my collection. Hes amazing. So kind. And im so grateful for him and bobby.

    He even offered to let me "feed" a bedbug so Id know what my reaction would be! i declined. but thats so smart!

  2. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Wed Apr 25 2012 12:46:17
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    This is why we're always telling people to post a photo even if they are sure they have a bed bug sample.

    Glad you're bed bug free. Did you have some kind of skin issue and if so, do you have any idea what caused it?

    I started and run the site but am "not an expert."
  3. diesel

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Wed Apr 25 2012 12:57:19
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    This is becoming a greater problem with people being lied to so that they can make the profits, very sad. Ok, off the soap box. Anyway, Lou who I am sure you are going to see also said people are starting to see more of these, that it is becoming more common. To an amateur, there are some similarities between them. I guess we should say Killer Queen strikes again, and again, and again. Great work KQ, nice to have an honest guy out there. I know there are so many other good guys, heck any professional on here who comes and ID and answer questions and makes not a nickel, is a great person in my book. You all are appreciated. Without KQ, David, Lou, Effe Ci, Spidey Jim, Sean and so many others we would all be lost.

  4. edtt

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Wed Apr 25 2012 13:12:50
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    wow, yah for no BB's!
    such a horrible thing to have happen to you

    wondering if anybody has heard of pco's "planting" evidence to force consumers to treat?
    (yes I am being paranoid, as I have a dog inspection on Monday)

  5. killdienow

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Wed Apr 25 2012 13:33:53
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    honestly, i do not fe that western intentionally duped us. i think it was an error. thatsaid: an error in this was is inexcusable. they spent months saying "you dont have anymore bedbugs" i would have felt better if they said: "because you never did".

    im writing to my budings corporate office. if we contract a firm: they better be good. and in ny: why not killerqueen?

    thanks to lou sorkin!: he reconfirmed killerqueen's ID. NOT bedbugs!!
    "odd beetles"

    im unpacking asap!!!! freedom!!!

    thanks to all.
    kdn

  6. killdienow

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Wed Apr 25 2012 13:55:56
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    also re skin: had 2 avg looking bites before i saw the bug in dec.
    then the dog confirmed an issue and i had a bite on my ankle that day.
    ive had 2-3 biggish bites with a white head and lots o small red bumbs (non itchy) i figured i didnt react.

    so no diagnosis other than a dermatolist saying "yes that is a bite" to the one on my ankle.

  7. Galileo

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Wed Apr 25 2012 16:45:00
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    killdienow - 6 hours ago  » 
    found a bug in dec. confirmed as bedbug by western pest company (do not hire! ) they sprayed especially after the dog confirmed an issue. 4 months of feeling like i would never know if they were gone and 7 additional dead bugs found: i call killerqueen.
    i had just steamed my couch and found 2 more bugs.
    after emailing with him and telling him i was sure they were bedbugs: he comes to inspect. looks through my samples : (save all your samples!!!)
    and says i never had bedbugs!
    he believed they are "odd beetle". im taking them up to the natural history musuem today to have the entomologist confirm! i cannot believe this! i can unpack!!!
    sooo crazy.
    do not do what i did! namely: trust western pest (not that i did but my building contracts with them ) and i waited without further help. The truth is: if you are in NY, dont waste your time or money with anyone else. 4 months!
    I was expecting hed give me the "all clear" and Id be dubious. He didnt even have to check my apartment. He just looked at my collection. Hes amazing. So kind. And im so grateful for him and bobby.
    He even offered to let me "feed" a bedbug so Id know what my reaction would be! i declined. but thats so smart!

    Congrats KDN. Your experience parallels mine in many respects - but 4 mos. against my 2. It's sad we had to go through all this before finding a PCO with integrity and competence - in our cases, KillerQueen.

    How do we empower and promote the good guys - including the many conscientious professionals who post on this site, and call to account others who prey on, or at least fail to help, vulnerable customers in their hour of need. One thing that we can do, is to publicize our own experience as widely as possible, on this site and others. (I will do so on Yelp too. Can anyone think of other equivalent sites?). I think this should be done in as credible a manner as possible, without hyperbole, to have the desired effect. I also haven't shied away from describing my negative experiences, including the name of the company involved. I'm not concerned about being threatened with a libel suit - truth and lack of malice are adequate defenses and I'm prepared to handle any legal threat. (Caveat: I'm not a lawyer, so don't take this as legal advice).

    What other measures can we take, to help ameliorate this unfortunate situation? People are suffering for extended periods, losing thousands of dollars, and being exposed to toxins, in many cases needlessly. Those toxins are also entering the ecosystem and accelerating the evolution of resistance in the insect population, to agents that are still effective and essential for bona fide infestations.

    Any thoughts?

    Galileo

  8. djames1921

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Wed Apr 25 2012 17:00:39
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    This is why the industry standard for dogs is that the handler of the dog must visually confirm what the dog alerts to. This saves scenarios like this from happening in many cases. It is also why you will hear so many experts caution people to not treat until the problem is identified and samples of bed bugs (skins, bugs, fecal. Eggs) are found. I had a person today call me in a panic because her doctor told her the bites she had looked like bed bugs. Our medical professionals need to realize what the impact of their statements are. The lady was about to throw out all her stuff!

  9. killdienow

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Wed Apr 25 2012 17:02:32
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    galileo,
    i plan to write reviews. perhaps make a nyc bedbug website.
    if yelp exists and reviews are allowed online: why cant i review western peat here: they put my mattress inthe hallway while spraying for bedbugs, incorectly ided the bug in question (both he inspector and the follow up supervisor) and then completely ignored all my fears of dead bugs and bites that continued to show up.

    funy thy you are still on here. i feel like i will be too!

  10. killdienow

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Wed Apr 25 2012 17:04:57
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    david: the dog alerted. i asked for proof theu said no. but the proof was in the first WRoNGLy id'ed bug that I initially found. insane.

    ps: can i return my packtite

  11. SmrtBB

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Wed Apr 25 2012 21:05:38
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    Wow, wish I could go somewhere to have a bed bug bite me so I could know what the reaction was! Didn't know that was possible!

  12. cilecto

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Wed Apr 25 2012 21:25:53
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    If I had a PackTite I'd keep it.

    Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night...
    - Psalms 91:5-7

    (Not an pro)
  13. killdienow

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Wed Apr 25 2012 21:42:53
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    also: for the record: i am a "worst case scenario" person. if i read this post (like i read galileos post last week!) i never would have thought "this could be my situation" NO WAY. someone tells you its a bedbug after visual confirmation of bug (and its the supervisor of the company and his minion inspector on two incidents) there is nothing that would make me believe otherwise.

    i called killerqueen because i was really wantig to unpack and know if they were gone.
    NOT because i thought i never had them! killerqueen even said to me before coming: "are you going to believe me if i tell you that you dont have them?" thay was the million dollar question.
    could i get rid of the "headbugs" as he calls them once he says that i can unpack.
    i NEVER would have thought this was going to be the result. not only are they gone. they were never here!!! if you are reading this and think "this is not relevant to me, i know i had them" consider you might not. i NEVER would have considered it. it my mind: i had accepted the worst and thought any idea that i disnt have them would be trying to pretend an issue didnt exist. i never found fecal spots. but collected a lot of black balls of random things. once its in your head that they have been here: even two dog inspections saying clear, the initial pco saying clear, and lack of accrate evidence(other than 8 bugs dead that i thought were bbs! because the pco said they were! or at least the initial twin was!)bedbugs are so pervasive in nyc. i figured it was very feasible. i cant beliee this!!!!

    should i return my steamer and sell my packtite? or keep them!?

  14. KillerQueen

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Wed Apr 25 2012 22:39:11
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    Thank you killdienow and everyone else how commented. I never put this screen name and you together. lol I had no idea. I just sent you an email and like I said there, I'm very happy that this is over for you. Don't forget I'm going to drive by your place tomorrow so I better see a mountain of empty trash bags and ZipLocks on the curb

    Like I tell soooo many people ... they really have no idea how often I see this. The companies that tell people they have bed bugs when they don't get written up with reviews by clients thinking this company saved their lives. Sad thing is they never find this out and the reviews are taken to heart by people who actually have bed bugs. I always think it's the reason that 30% of my business is working behind previous failed treatments. Meaning .... there're real good at getting rid of the bugs when theres none there to begin with =) .... That's just my story but I have hundreds of them ... that's the sad part.

    Again, I'm very happy for you .... Thanks again!

  15. KillerQueen

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Wed Apr 25 2012 22:41:43
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    Hey Lou ... think maybe I should give up the bed bug business and focus on a new specialty?

    How many Odd beetle specialist are in NY right now? I think I may be able to corner the market.

  16. Galileo

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Wed Apr 25 2012 22:51:31
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    KDN:

    Yes, Yelp has PCO reviews. I would urge again, that we post strictly factual information, not speculation. If a K9 pointed inaccurately, you don't know whether it was poorly trained, incorrectly handled, or prompted to point by the handler for venal reasons. The end result would be the same - you ended up undergoing expensive time-consuming treatment with toxic agents for an imagined problem. In both our cases, there was deemed to be "no need" to rigorously search for clearcut physical evidence of an infestation. No concern about no apparent fecal traces despite numerous "bites". You subsequently had the purported BB's ID'd as some beetle species by our own Lou Sorkin, the eminent AMNH entomologist. These are facts that, I believe, one can point to with a clear conscience and no risk of legal consequences. (Note: Please don't rely on anything I write here for advice on legal matters).

    I don't intend to make this my life's calling, but I do feel a sense of obligation to the pro's and others on this site who have given of themselves to point us in the right direction, to add my voice to the public discussion. I think the leaders in the field have substantially defined best practise (although important research and innovation is ongoing). The question is why the best, highest integrity, most efficient practicioners don't overtake and ultimately drive out their lesser counterparts, as is usually the case in other markets. Some of the answers probably lie in regulation, licensing, education, etc.

    Best wishes to all.

    Galileo

  17. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Wed Apr 25 2012 22:57:56
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    You don't need a new New York bed bug site; you can post reviews here -- the key is to be absolutely factual and not jump to conclusions. Remember people can sue you for defamation and win if you say something about them you can't prove. (I'm not a lawyer.)

  18. KillerQueen

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Wed Apr 25 2012 23:17:21
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    The sad thing about Yelp is that they extort businesses for money and by doing so they block actual reviews by clients. They claim their filter does this (an it does to a point) but when you get calls from their sales team telling you they can remove negative reviews and unblock a few positives if you pay 350.00 a month .. well that is extortion.

    I have 23 reviews on Yelp ... 21 of them 5 star reviews. Of the 23 reviews, 17 five star reviews are filtered or hidden from view.

    The two negative reviews I have are as follows.

    1. From a guy I never met. I have never been to his residence before. And I never taken a penny from him. He has never written a review for anyone other then me. Yet if you write a 5 star review for anyone when you first join Yelp, your review will be filtered and not seen by the public. This guy wasted my time and so did his land lord and after two attempts to help him ... everything fell apart. Nothing was my fault ... and both him and his land lord never wanted to pay for my services.

    2. For a client that had a bed bug problem that I treated and solved on the first visit. She clearly states I solved her problem but the rest is down hill from there. She was impossible to work for and I knew this the second I met her. I told her I had no availability for three weeks in the hopes that she wouldn't wait for me and would find someone else. She waited. I recommended another company that would provide the same results and less money ... but she would have it. I tried everything to not work for this woman because I knew she was an absolute nightmare from jump street.

    Her husband even called to apologized for how she treated me. She was the worst person I ever had to work for in the last 4 years. The second I found bugs in her house while doing the inspection, she treated me like it was my fault.

    She mentions nothing but lies in her review ... so much to the point that she would not recommend my services .. yet her sister called me 6 months after she publicly trashed me. A direct referral by the lier.

    So yeah, their reviews when they started on Yelp with no history were never filtered. They have always been on the main page (front and center) for everyone to see. In short, I have 4 - 5 star reviews showing but the sickest thing is I have 17 - 5 star reviews from actual clients that I have helped and nobody gets to see them. A - 1 star review from a sicko I never worked for but cost me money .. and another nut case that was impossible to work for and did nothing but lie in her review.

    Just google Yelp scam ... and you will see class action law suits that have been brought against yelp for there advertising scams. .... It's discussing and many, many businesses are talking about it online. They are in fact hurting a lot of small businesses with their practices.

  19. Galileo

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Thu Apr 26 2012 0:20:54
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    Wow. The thick plottens! That is very sad, KQ. I certainly hope the lawsuit succeeds and forces Yelp to change their practises. The publicity generated by a trial in itself should be quite damaging to them.

    Are there any other worthwhile sites for posting PCO reviews?

    Galileo

  20. KillerQueen

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Thu Apr 26 2012 1:11:40
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    There has been a few class actions against them .. all tossed out but millions of small businesses are getting screwed because of them. When I researched them I found a site with thousands of business owners venting on a blog site. I think it was removed after the case because I can't seem to find it now.

    Checkout this link and judge for yourself. http://yelpscam.com/negative-yelp-press.html

    Sorry for the typos above ....

  21. killdienow

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Thu Apr 26 2012 9:20:03
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    i recommend businesses create a google business listing and reviews get written on that.

    my review for western pest control:technician and supervisor incorrectly identified a bug as a bedbug. since there was no other evidence other than bites a dog was brought it. signaled my bed, no visual confirmation was done. a treatment was done. the company did two follow up visual inspections which i no longer trusted since the dog was only thing to find problem. they told me the problem was gone repeatedly in very dismissive fashion and no linger responded to my complaints of finding dead bed bugs 3.5 months later. (my id based on positive confirmation) i stayed in bags for 4 months because i continued to feel random bites or see spots.
    my last attempt at closure was bringing in killerqueen aka john furman aka boot a pest. he tild me the truth. i never had bedbugs. it was a odd beetle. ive emailed western to find out what went wrong. did they know or was it a mistake? either way: unacceptable. but alas im thrilled to be writing from my iphone out of a ziplock and will put on jeans that didnt go through the dryer. thank you again killer queen. you rock.
    also: i think western mostly does big contracts. ie hotels. so maybe they have less experience dealing with people who live in homes!!? (i do not know the nature of their accounts: that is speculation). if writing reviews brings lawsuits than the entire internet is going to get sued. plus: 300$ for a steamer $300 for a packtite $100 on ziplocks, plastic bins, wood putty and shellac, 4 months of mental distress living in bags. LOTs of money eating out and avoiding home. toxic exposure to unnecessary poisons. a lost couch, artwork, clothes, speakers, radios and more all thrown out , lots more dryer/laundry bills.... plus lots more ... who has the better case!!!

    insane! but today: thrilled!

  22. killdienow

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Thu Apr 26 2012 9:21:49
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    sorry: in fairness. western also brought a followip dog for free to say "all gone" i got a "bite" that night and didnt trust it.

  23. theyareoutthere

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Fri Apr 27 2012 1:56:08
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    I was wondering about Yelp...one of my health care providers...who is WONDERFUL with skilled and patient staff..got talked into a groupon thing (that's another story)...

    Anyway.... 5 negative YELPs from Groupon...They can't figure it out because those 5 are very long one and two star reviews. I guess they aren't supposed to do this, but they asked some of the long-term customers who do multiple referrals if they would feel comfortable writing a YELP review.

    I followed the guidelines...stated facts, kept it short, not effusive, four starts..it's filtered. There are at least 10+ filtered. I contacted them and they said it's their modeling system...uh-huh.....

    It's frustrating to write a review and not have it posted.

    They
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  24. KillerQueen

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Sat Apr 28 2012 1:02:33
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    Yeah .... Yelp is a mess. I'm going to work on other sites for references because I prefer people read actual accounts from past clients rather then a website telling you how wonderful "we" are.

    I know a client has posted on Angie's list so that is another avenue for me. I setup my business on there after they posted but haven't really looked into their site yet. I'm still plugging along with my own web site so once I go live with that I'll focus more attention on the referral side of things.

    In the mean time feel free to use yelp if you want ... just saying in most cases they will filter your review unless I spend $300-$600 in advertising with them.

    Thanks again!

  25. loubugs

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Sun Apr 29 2012 13:43:47
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    KillerQueen - 3 days ago  » 
    Hey Lou ... think maybe I should give up the bed bug business and focus on a new specialty?
    How many Odd beetle specialist are in NY right now? I think I may be able to corner the market.

    Hey KQ,
    Odd Beetles R US.
    A specialist has to know why this particular species is called odd. Male, female look very different from one another and immature is distinctive, too. This species is quite commonly encountered in NYC (and other places, too), but no one really found them until they started hunting for bed bugs. The larval stage is often more collected or seen by the general public. I will get a picture plate together as soon as possible and post it.
    I've presented many lectures to the PMPs/PCOs over the years, but it's possible that some haven't paid attention and just waited until the end to grab their paperwork for having taken the class. I try to make mine more visually oriented and even give out free loupes to attendees (if a large audience, then sometimes not everyone gets a loupe).

    Professional entomologist/arachnologist. I consult on all matters dealing with insects and arachnids, including those of natural history and biology to pest management and forensic entomology investigations.
  26. theyareoutthere

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Sun Apr 29 2012 17:59:15
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    I had an odd looking beetle that I was going to take a picture of and ask about. It got out of the bag...so I'll be freezing anything found in the future. It looked to large to be a BB, but it was very odd looking. I have trouble because I just haven't ever paid that much attention b4 all the media attention...

    I think education is good..most of the media attention is good but very extreme (and sad but true).

  27. loubugs

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Mon Apr 30 2012 3:41:30
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    Odd beetle is a common name for a particular species of dermestid beetle called Thylodrias contractus. It's also called a tissue paper beetle. See how you can get into trouble with common names? The female is what superficially resembles a bed bug, normally a late instar nymph (such as a 5th instar) or adult bed bug.

  28. Winston O. Buggy

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Mon Apr 30 2012 9:01:54
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    How odd or should I saw bless you! This underscores the need for proper identification for all. In order to do this saving samples is paramount. How often do clients catch something and "throw it out, or my favorite "flush it down the toilet" or insist "I know for sure its a bed bug" then when the tech gets there and inspects to confirm it is one dermestid or another, not to mention roach nymphs and spider beetles.
    On the professional side especially with early instars, damaged samples or days when you forgot the glasses, take it back to the office if in doubt. Train all your techs in top ten basic id and encourage them to ask if unsure and not give the easy answer. Attend a Lou Sorkin ID seminar.


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