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Advice on Polyalkyleneoxide Modified Heptamethyltrisiloxane

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  1. Pinkhat

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    Posted 3 months ago
    Wed Jan 16 2019 8:05:26
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    Hi so I'm wondering if anyone has used Polyalkyleneoxide Modified Heptamethyltrisiloxane?
    It has been offered to me as a free treatment by my local council, I'm in the UK and am a council tenant.
    We previously had treatment by David Cain's company which was hugely successful. However we have found the root cause of our problem, a neighbour 3 floors below with an infestation of more than 10 years.
    We have been lucky and have manged to keep ours low with weekly deep clean, passive monitors etc. I am highly allergic so we know immediately that we have one in the bed.
    On last inspection we had one new phaecal trace, but I was bitten.
    I would love to use David Cain but finances are an issue and given that we could continue to get reinfested until the source flat is clear, we may end up paying again and again.
    I spoke to the council and I don't feel I want to allow them to use chemicals, I have an elderly cat and I am asthmatic.
    They mentioned the above active ingredient. I am really struggling with this as I am relient on the council to properly treat the infested flat and as a tenant of 20 years I have never seen them do anything properly.

  2. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 3 months ago
    Wed Jan 16 2019 8:31:19
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    Hi,

    A quick google makes me think you are possibly being mislead by the council on this occasion. The only references I can find to Polyalkyleneoxide Modified Heptamethyltrisiloxane are as a wetting agent. As odd as it sounds some materials are added to water to disperse chemicals better, something that is important with micro climates such as leaves when you are spraying plants.

    My advise would be to ask them for the MSDS and COSHH sheets for the product so you can evaluate it. With a response to this I think you have grounds to ask you local MP and the head of the council for an explanation as to why they are not carrying out their obligations under the 1990 Environment Act section 80 in that they are filing to resolve a statutory nuisance.

    If they are attempting to provide you with misleading information and you have proof of this then its better to take this outside of the department and to those who will appreciate that this is not ethical or acceptable.

    I am pleased were able to help you and that the methods we have taught keep the issue under control but equally saddened to hear that it is still an ongoing issue.

    I have seen council do things correctly but sadly that usually takes someone extremely senior in the "chain of command" being aware of just how bad things are. It would be so much more efficient if people actually did their jobs and complied with their obligations under the law in the first place.

    Hopefully you also find some comfort in some of the resources we have added to help with relaxation and staying positive.

    David Cain
    Bed Bugs Limited

    If you have found this information helpful please consider leaving feedback on social media via google+ or FaceBook or by like/loving the images.

    In accordance with the AUP and FTC (legal requirements) I openly disclose my vested interest in Passive Monitors as the inventor and patent holder. Since 2009 they have become an integral part in how we resolve bed bug infestations. I also have a professional relationship with PackTite in that they distribute my product under their own branding. I do not however receive any financial remuneration for any comments I make about products.
  3. Pinkhat

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    Posted 3 months ago
    Wed Jan 16 2019 12:29:17
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    Hi David, I was hoping you would reply. We have spoken at length on the phone about my block of flats and the issues with the infested flat. It is so bad that they have moved the tenant out as she has severe mental health problems. The infestation must be so bad.
    I am going to follow your advice and go back to pest control and ask for the sheets you mentioned.
    The flat had been badly neglected so they are treating it and then gutting it out. Of course it doesn't help any of us as the flat is empty.

  4. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 3 months ago
    Wed Jan 16 2019 12:34:59
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    Hi,

    If the unit is void they should be using an active monitoring solution to try and limit dispersal. We have been testing something for such long term projects having had to screen a vacant floor in a medical facility.

    It would however require bi-weekly access to the unit to check and QC.

    David

  5. Pinkhat

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    Posted 3 months ago
    Wed Jan 16 2019 13:09:54
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    What are the chances of them doing this though, I told them about the treatment I had from you and they were very dismissive.
    I found this link https://icbpharma.com/en/produkty/provecta/
    Could this be what they want to use do you think? Many thanks for your time Jodi

  6. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 3 months ago
    Wed Jan 16 2019 13:35:58
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    Hi,

    Possibly, I would ask for the data sheets and take it from there.

    The issue I would have with it is that it’s ULV delivery , basically a type of fogger and unless they have worked out a way to defy the laws of physics it’s not going to solve your problem.

    Sadly there can be a disconnect between the staff within Environmental Health departments and you ultimately will have more joy from the enforcement team than the pest control team although this itself often becomes an awkward conflict of interest.

    David

  7. Pinkhat

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    Posted 3 months ago
    Wed Jan 16 2019 14:03:49
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    Thanks David, so I have been speaking to head of pest control, do you mind explaining what you mean about conflict of interest with enforcement? At what stage do I need to contact enforcement?

  8. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 3 months ago
    Wed Jan 16 2019 17:07:54
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    Hi,

    Within the council Environment department the teams are generally split, those who enforce the law when it comes to environmental legislation such as noise and pollution must be qualified environmental health officers as they are enforcing the courts orders.

    The pest control team are not required to be as qualified.

    Sadly this often means those called upon to do the enforcement such as a statutory nuisance / treatment failure notice work for the same department as the people who have failed to control the issue. This creates a conflict of interest as the QC is done by the same team which is not an ethical or ideal.

    Often this needs to be explained to the MP or the head of the council because they have not seen the mindfield before walking right into it.

    Hope that helps.

    David

  9. Pinkhat

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    Posted 3 months ago
    Fri Jan 18 2019 9:18:41
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    Hi David, so I followed your advice and the council sent me a data safety sheet, here's where I'm confused it's for Permex 22e which on my research isn't chemical free, and does not even contain Polyalkyleneoxide Modified Heptamethyltrisiloxane. I feel completely misled. I have not replied to them yet. Permex 22e actually contains Permethrin which is highly toxic to cats, the whole reason I asked them about non chemical treatments was because I have an elderly already unwell cat.

  10. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 3 months ago
    Fri Jan 18 2019 9:26:33
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    Hi,

    While I fully appreciate the concern for your cat but from a technical perspective a simple Permethrin would be more likely to resolve the situation in your property than bendiocarb which would be their go-to of choice.

    I would suggest you reply and ask them how this is chemical free as you have requested and precisely how treating your property is ever going to resolve the infestation that is the source of your issue.

    If they offer further incorrect answers or information I think it warranted asking someone more senior, outside of the department to assess exactly what is going on.

    I am sure I have explained to you in the past that these issues are always drawn out and are always best done in writing rather than through conversations so that you have a full paper trail because sadly people often just don't do their jobs.

    David

  11. Pinkhat

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    Posted 3 months ago
    Fri Jan 18 2019 9:59:52
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    Thanks David, yes we have discussed how drawn out these things can be. I have only been corresponding with email so I have a paper trail.
    If course the big question is how they intend to resolve the source problem. They have treated the property every 2 weeks from November to end of December. Now they say they are gutting the flat and then treating again.

  12. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 3 months ago
    Fri Jan 18 2019 10:07:13
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    Hi,

    Huge tip, the correct order is resolve then renovate. Do it the wrong way around and you seal in the problem in the source flat and spread to the others.

    They should be running active monitoring to at least attempt to reduce the dispersal.

    David

  13. Pinkhat

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    Posted 3 months ago
    Fri Jan 18 2019 11:45:32
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    Thanks David. I have emailed and asked all the relevant questions. I have a good relationship with a local councillor who is happy to help me if I need her.

  14. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 3 months ago
    Fri Jan 18 2019 12:03:36
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    When you feel you have enough of a comedy of errors timeline it up and ask the councillor or MP ask why so many errors and lack of action has been made. When framed as “why have you not upheld your responsibilities under the 1990 Envronment Act section 80” the duty of care and enforcement is the same person and thus the lack of action is inexcusable.

    Funny how they quickly decry others and yet behave some chronicly themselves.

    David

  15. Pinkhat

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    Posted 2 months ago
    Thu Feb 7 2019 6:45:14
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    Hi David, hoping you see this, so the council finally sent me the correct safety data sheet. The product is called Vazor Provecta. It says it is an insecticide. The active ingredient is polyalkyleneoxide Modified Heptamethyltrisiloxane. Have you come across this treatment? According to the council it is new and they only just got it.

  16. Pinkhat

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    Posted 2 months ago
    Thu Feb 7 2019 6:47:34
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    Ok so I've looked online and it says it is insecticide efficacy enhancer, I'm guessing this means it is added to an insecticide. I really give up with the council.

  17. Pinkhat

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    Posted 2 months ago
    Thu Feb 7 2019 6:49:05
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  18. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 2 months ago
    Thu Feb 7 2019 12:22:20
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    Hi,

    All I can say is good luck to them.

    It will not solve your problem in this situation and given that they are acting as both enforcement officials and treatment providers. At some stage someone is going to stop and review the route they have taken and what options do they look at when they fail to enforcement themselves to do something.

    Their logic appears to be to try and focus on dealing with the issue at your end rather than the blindingly obvious and correct deal with it at the source.

    David

  19. loubugs

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    Posted 2 months ago
    Thu Feb 7 2019 12:56:20
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    Maybe you found this already.
    http://www.mtwatershed.com/2013/07/01/polyalkyleneoxide-modified-heptamethyltrisiloxane/
    and Safety Data Sheet
    http://www.essentialingredients.com/msds/Silwet%20L-77.pdf
    I don't know how this is listed as nontoxic
    https://icbpharma.com/en/produkty/provecta/
    as it contains Polyalkyleneoxide modified heptamethyltrisiloxane.

    Professional entomologist/arachnologist. I consult on all matters dealing with insects and arachnids, including those of natural history and biology to pest management and forensic entomology investigations.
  20. Pinkhat

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    Posted 2 months ago
    Mon Feb 11 2019 11:24:51
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    Thanks for the input, I can see from the data sheet that it is toxic if inhaled, I need to check this for my asthma. They are saying that it has no chemical residue, which is obviously different to being a non chemical product. They must think I'm stupid.
    The treatments in the source flat are still ongoing so it really is hard to know what will happen. The council have suggested DE powder too but made sure I know how messy it is! I had treatment with DE from David's company and it was successful. The bottom line is I don't trust the council but am in between jobs so cannot pay for treatment. This is really getting me down.


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