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4 Treatments and still getting bites!!!!!

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  1. Ricardo

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Fri Jan 25 2008 22:51:11
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    So I had the 4th visit from my PCO. I caulked up all cracks and baseboards in my bed room and the hallway leading to the bedroom. I also encased my mattress and box spring and got rid of all the cardboard boxes in my bedroom. I was away at Xmas and came back about 8 days after the treatment. After 2 days back I started to get bites again( about 12 days after the treatment).I hve parkay floors and there is one area in the bedroom that got wet and left cracks around the parkay floor.

    I have gone through periods of anxiety and fear and then periods of acceptance that I will just have to live with them. But from what I have read if I just live with it they will get worse.

    1.How can I find out where they are coming from? I find no evidence anywhere I tried double sided tape and caught spiders and some other bugs but no BB's.

    2.I seem to be getting bites back at my mothers house although I was very cautious to wash everything before I went there. the house is 2 floors with 4 bedrooms on the top floor. My mothers room is on the opposite side of the house and she says she has had no bites. My sister and some guests have stayed in my room there and claim to have got no bites. I have seen no evidence there except some small blood spots on the pillow and what I felt were bites. How can I find out for sure if there are bugs there?

    3.Do you know of any bedbug experts in Toronto? If so could I please have there contact Info.
    My landlord paid for the first three treatments and the PCO did the last one for free.

    4. Some people have said "just move out". How do I guarentee I don't bring them with me?

    5. What do you think I should do? (Ineed some guidance as I am feeling quite lost in the pain of this situation.) I figure if I can put a set of things into action and go step by step my fears and anxiety might start to go away.

    6. I heard that there is a strain of bedbugs from New York that are resistant to pesticides. What are all the the possible pesticides that could be used to treat Bed Bugs? My PCO used Dragnet and some form of FOG no dust though. I think he also used some thing that had chrysanthemum extract in it but I might be wrong about that.

  2. (deleted)

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Sat Jan 26 2008 1:15:30
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    Ricardo, this sucks, I'm so sorry.

    Some thoughts:

    1- Read this post http://bedbugger.com/2007/11/25/notsosnug-killing-bed-bugs-one-by-one/ to get some ideas. Double-sided tape is not the most effective we hear.

    Go to the blog (blue bug below) and search for Toronto. Lots of articles will come up. (Sorry, I'm having difficulties accessing the blog and can't provide links.) You can read them and identify who are some of the people (PCOs and entomologists and bedbug dog handlers) interviewed in them. There was a recent one that discussed a bedbug dog that inspects hotels in the area. Perhaps you can consider an inspection.

    2- The majority of people are said not to react to bedbug bites, so the lack of reports of bites is not surprising. The best thing to do is to have your mother's place inspected by a qualified PCO and/or a bedbug dog.

    3- The articles might give you somewhere to start and as you know there is a Canadian entomologist/PCO you can consult at thebedbugresource.com

    4- You can't. No guarantees. But there are some treatments (for your stuff, done in containers) that are effective and can be recommended for people who are moving, but in Canada my understanding is that Vikane treatments are not available. That would leave perhaps thermal treatments. Maybe BakedBedBugs can point you in the right direction for providers in your area.

    5- I would start with investigating the possibility of there being other apartments in your building also infested. Were the adjacent units inspected?

    6- I don't think anyone can say that resistant bedbugs are "from" New York; they're probably everywhere and anywhere. (If you heard this form your PCO, please refer him or her to this PDF article by Romero, Potter and Haynes.)

    You can ask Sean at thebedbugresource.com about the protocols and materials available in Canada. Some of the solutions available here in the US cannot be used there. If I understand correctly it has to do with whether bedbugs are on the label.

  3. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Sat Jan 26 2008 10:04:44
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    Ricardo,

    You told us in previous posts that you had four treatments spaced a month apart. As some of us said to you previously, this is too long a gap. Most PCOs who know bed bugs seem to recommend treating at approximately 2 week intervals. (The eggs hatch within 10-14 days, and this interval helps break the cycle.)

    Are you in an apartment building, or a single-family home? If you are in a building, a likely problem is that neighbors may be infested yet untreated, or improperly treated, and the bed bugs may keep returning to you if this is so.

    If you are in an apartment or multi-unit building, I would recommend the landlord has a qualified PCO inspect all units carefully for bed bugs. Sadly, I would question whether your PCO an expert on bed bugs. It is not necessarily the methods used but the time frame that worry me. What did he have to say about the fact you're still being bitten?

    I started and run the site but am "not an expert."
  4. Ricardo

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Sat Jan 26 2008 13:18:49
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    Thanks for the replies.
    It is an small 2 floor apartment I live in. I have asked the neighbors if they have seen any evidence of bedbugs and they say no. The guy above me told me that he thought he was getting bites after my treatments but hen he sort of changed his story 3 months later and said he was not getting bites and that back then he thought it was just mosquitos or something else. I feel like he might be the source but have no way of telling. The landlord said he could not do anything if my neighbors are not complaining about bedbugs. I told him that it was in his interest to get the other apts checked out because if they saturate the building the problem would be huge. He told me at other apts he manages they have been able to erradicate the BB's with one or two treatments and doesn't understand why mine isn't the same.
    The PCO said he was surprised that they were back and thought maybe I was reinfesting some how. I have followed all of the instructions and still I get bites. When I talked to the PCO he instilled confidence in his abilities. But the more I hear from people on this site I realize he is not all that good.

    I think I am going to put all my possesions in storage for 12 months. If there are BB's in my possesions will 12 months in a storage locker starve them to death?

  5. BBsBlow

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Sat Jan 26 2008 16:24:47
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    You'd need 18 months of storage to be on the safe side. Personally, I'm going to wait for 2 years. And even then I'm probably going to dump everything that's there.

  6. fightorflight

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Sun Jan 27 2008 2:36:36
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    I am looking at trying to save some of my belongings by putting them into storage. Many who have done this are aware that, in the storage unit, your bugs can wander away into other units - so you must try to be very careful to pack your things into bags or whatever with an airtight seal, or at least do your best. I looked up the Christmas tree bags - they are 3 mil thick and a whopping 80 x 110 inches, and they're on sale right now because it's after Christmas!

    And oh yeah, I'm in for the whole two years.

  7. angie

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Sun Jan 27 2008 2:53:15
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    I personally am hoping that the Nebraska freeze will kill all of my straggler bugs cuz all my salvaged belongings are in my garage!! Please don't tell me that I am wrong that a couple months of cold storage is wrong??!!

  8. NotSoSnug

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Sun Jan 27 2008 3:03:55
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    Madam Minister, your reference skills are wonderful!

  9. fightorflight

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Sun Jan 27 2008 3:26:28
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    Re bagging, sealing, etc.: Am I the only one who starts to get confused after a while about whether I'm trying to keep the bedbugs in or trying to keep them out? Same difference, I guess.

  10. Ricardo

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Sun Jan 27 2008 13:27:05
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    So if a person has bed bugs do all the furniture and things have to go into storage? Don't the bugs concentrate in the bedroom?

  11. (deleted)

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Sun Jan 27 2008 16:09:12
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    Ricardo,

    Some PCOs who can't solve your bedbug problem will nearly always say either that you don't have bedbugs anymore or that you are "reintroducing" the bedbugs. (We as sufferers have our own reflexive explanations too.) A good PCO will acknowledge that there are at least a couple of other possibilities (the neighbors may have them or be a source and/or, surprise, the bedbugs are simply not all dead yet). Your PCO should be recommending to your landlord that other apartments be inspected. You can't just ask the residents if they think they have signs (although I think you did the right thing by talking to them about it). I understand this is political between the landlord and the PCO in many cases, but it doesn't help you solve your problem.

    I didn't realize what Nobugs said, that your treatments have been spaced a month apart. I would put money on that being the reason why you still have them. That's just not the way to do it. Can you lobby for a change in the schedule? And if this PCO is not amenable, lobby the landlord for a different PCO?

    If you want out, consider that the risks are huge but they can be managed. I would strongly suggest that you consider finding a commodity thermal provider so that you can move, if that is what you end up doing. Storage is the option of last resort. You give up your stuff for a long time.

    And no, bedbugs can be in anything and everything that you own and in every room of your home. Sadly. Oh God, did your PCO only treat your bedroom?

  12. Ricardo

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Sun Jan 27 2008 19:23:57
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    At this point the landlord has told me he won't pay for anymore treatments. He paid for 3 and the PCO company gave me one for no charge. So far all contact with the PCO and landlord has been civil and polite. I am going to speak with the landlord again and explain it is in his best interest to continue treatments. I asked if the PCO could inspect the neighbors but he did not have time that day.
    What is involved in a proper inspection?
    I assume a commodity thermal provider is something you put your stuff in that heats up? I wonder if the spray booths used at body shops would work? I think they heat up to bake the paint.

    The PCO did treat the entire apartment. It is not a huge place 600 sq feet or so. He sprayed around all of the baseboards through out and the mattress metal bedframe and wooden chest of drawers. Then he fogged.He did not use dust. After the first treatment I found one dead bed bug on the mattress. After 2 more treatments I flipped the wood dresser over and found 3 dead bedbugs in some cobwebs. So this tells me that the fog probably did kill some of them. I have Caulked around the edges of the switch plates and electrical in the bedroom, so it now would be difficult to remove them for dusting.

    Thanks for your postings and info I am begining to feel better. Although those bugs have been hungry the past 2 days. My new nickname Itchy Richie. Urghhhhhh........ I especialy detest the bites on the face

  13. (deleted)

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Sun Jan 27 2008 19:52:41
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    Contact BakedBedBugs, a Vancouver thermal provider, the website is http://www.bakedbedbugs.com/ to ask if he knows of any thermal options in Toronto. I think his name is Tony.

    And did you do any reading in the blog? About the dogs and PCOs?

    You are going to overcome this. Once you decide what you are going to do, whether you are going to hire a PCO and get additional treatments or move out, you can plan your next steps. It's hard to say what I would do in your position; you should research the options. Perhaps another (proper) round of conventional PCO treatments, by someone who is experienced and thorough, will do it. There is a solution and you can put this behind you.

  14. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Sun Jan 27 2008 21:27:13
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    There is a dog who works in Ontario also.

  15. Ricardo

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Mon Jan 28 2008 1:04:59
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    Yes I got a private message from Doug Summers about a BB dog I am going to try to get him out to my mothers house to confirm the pressence of BB's and their location. It is expensive but worth it I guess. I am not finnancial stable right now which makes this all that more difficult. My mother was wary about beleiving a dog could do that sort of thing and she is not that easy to deal with. The family has tried to convince me that the bites I got when I was there on 3 seperate stays were probably psychological and because of the lack confirmed research on bites it is tough to tell. I have read about the bites and heard that they can be residual and old bites from long ago can flare up again and then there I have also heard that this is not true and that a bite is a bite not a flare up from previous bite. This is what makes it so psychologically damaging not knowing.
    My aunt is coming to visit my mother next week and is slated to stay in the bed room where I feel I was getting bit. I suggested she get the Large ziploc bags and have my aunt store her belongings in them.
    What do you think I should do about this issue?

    Thank you for your support and reasurance that I will get through this. It has put me close to the edge and I need to be concentrating on my career and work situation not whether I am spreading bedbugs where ever I go......

  16. Ricardo

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Mon Jan 28 2008 1:06:36
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    Can some one tell me how a PCO should conduct an effective inspection?

  17. BakedBedBugs

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Mon Jan 28 2008 2:22:25
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    Hi Ricardo,
    It sounds like you are experiencing "the perfect storm" of challenges to a successful treatment.

    Right now, there are no ThermaPure Heat thermal providers for bed bugs in Toronto. Sorry. If you do a search for TempAir thermal pest control they may have a mobile thermal provider for your contents in the area I am unaware of.
    There is a decent video of a bed bug inspection on the Vancouver Bed Bug Control website that you may find helpful.

    Best of luck! Feel free to contact me with any questions, I'll help as best I can.
    Tony Canevaro

  18. fightorflight

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Mon Jan 28 2008 3:20:43
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    >Thank you for your support and reasurance that I will get through this. It has put me close to the edge and I need to be concentrating on my career and work situation not whether I am spreading bedbugs where ever I go......

    Yes, absolutely!! This is a complete crisis in one's life and it it undescribably difficult for those afflicted to attend to the other responsibilities in their lives (kids, jobs) and battle the bugs, too. Turns out, though, that humans are very resilient and can adapt to a lot of shit and stress. Just one day at a time...

    >My aunt is coming to visit my mother next week and is slated to stay in the bed room where I feel I was getting bit. I suggested she get the Large ziploc bags and have my aunt store her belongings in them.
    What do you think I should do about this issue?

    I think it's fantastic that, despite all of your other stresses and your family's lack of cooperation, you are taking the task of protecting others (even if they don't want to be protected) very seriously. You're a real *mensch*.

    good thoughts,
    ForF

  19. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Tue Jan 29 2008 3:10:54
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    Ricardo,

    Some of the good PCOs who comment on this site do extensive visual inspections.
    On the other hand, we hear other companies don't even do inspections anymore because they think they're too difficult (or take too much time). There's no doubt that a thorough bed bug inspection takes lots of time, experience with bed bugs, and is--therefore--probably not the norm.

    Though dogs are not perfect either, if you can use a bed bug dog that alerts for live bugs and eggs, and the dog handler also helps you verify visual evidence after the dog alerts, this may be your best bet.

  20. bugbasher

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Tue Jan 29 2008 8:49:15
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    Ricardo, I sent pm with a good website that takes you through complete inspection and shows you how and where to look for them.If you don't have 20/20 vision you will need a magnifying glass.Good luck

  21. pleasehelp

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Tue Jan 29 2008 10:12:09
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    Hi bugbasher, do you mind posting the link here for everyone? Thanks much!

  22. bugbasher

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Tue Jan 29 2008 20:55:47
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    Hi, I gave Ricardo a link to University of Kentucky website that explains how and where to search for the little bloodsuckers : http://www.ca.uky.edu/entomology/entfacts/ef636.asp It's really a great site for those looking to take charge and find the little sob's.The harborage I have found was in a recessed screw hole,just like what they show.

  23. Ricardo

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Wed Jan 30 2008 23:36:14
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    Thanks for all the support. I am making a list of all my options and from moving out to sticking with more treatments. And I m going to make my decision soon. I am just going to have to put up with the bites for now. not much I can do.


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