What's the deal with Raid?(18 posts)
Is it totally useless? I read about the guy who treated his place with nothing but bed isolation and RAID; but he was lucky to have a single-family dwelling. Disclaimer: I'm not talking about RAID and no PCO, but in addition to. I.e. Like I mentioned in another post, I got my PCO to spray everything this time (all the furniture and all the baseboards) he uses Dragnet. But if I'm feeling like he might've missed some spots on the furniture, could I go over them with Raid? Would it help? (If only my sanity?) Harm? (The PCO is hired by property mangement, I've never been in contact with him, only left him "instructional notes). This Thursday will be the 2-week mark since the last (and our 3rd) treatment, and they are not coming back for another.
is the can of Raid you have specifically labeled for bed bugs? If so, you can keep it handy just in case you see one and you can spray the bug directly with it. It will give you piece of mind. But in the big picture, it won't do that much. If I were you, I would NOT try to "treat" areas you thought the PCO missed. I'm not an expert, but I've been reading a lot.
I have a couple of contact killers around the house that are specifically labeled for bed bugs and I use them for just that. If I see one, I spray it and kill it on contact. As for any spots I'm concerned the pco missed, I'm just praying I'm wrong and continuing with the protocols described in this FAQ.
Sort of on topic and off:
1. Do you have a guarantee from the PCO? If so, he can come back if you get bit within the guarantee period or spot a bug. If there's no chance he's ever coming back ever (unlikely as I'm sure landlord must get the guy in there again if you are re-infested) you can always go over some areas with a DE dust you can pick up on the internet (and use properly of course) or perhaps a spray if you really need piece of mind.
2. The Raid part - experience tells me it's a good contact killer, but not a residual for bbs as it claims to be for other pests. Is there any place that lists which OTC sprays are ineffective against bugs and studies proving them thus?? I'm only asking because I discovered 2 separate families that have self-treated their bugged homes with Ortho Home Defense, and with apparent success (have been bb free for 2+ years, and one of the infestations was quite serious and widespread). I know all the stuff about getting a PCO to treat etc, but do we know that all of these OTC sprays are completely ineffective for a fact? I find it quite odd and random that 2 families have purged themselves of this scourge using Ortho. (DISCLAIMER: please, do use a PCO to treat your home and not Ortho. I'm posing this as more of a hypothetical and curious question and am in no way encouraging anyone to go nuts with Ortho in an attempt to rid themselves of bb's.)
Raid can work if you pick the right kind. I had a PCO come in 3 times. She claimed I would probably need 5 treatments, each spaced out by 2 weeks. No warranty. 1st treatment: steam, lots of it, drione and suspend. What it turned out she meant was she only treated if bugs were found or I had bites, otherwise she was just inspecting. After treatment # 1, When I had a bug, she puffed some drione in the vicinity or killed it directly with an eco product. She never did another full treatment and her company refuses to re-treat without a new infestation. So, a bug here, a bug there, this was handled by spot killing. No matter how I argued, that is company policy. SO, I fired her. I hired myself since I ran out of cash to hire another PCO (please ask what a treatment really means before hiring them). I treated my living room, sofas, computer room and my room with a few products, some were raid...raid max for roaches is deltamethrin mixed with imiprothin which is essentially suspend. Bayer Home Pest Control is Tempo Ultra. Also DE and caulking (thanks to this site). I followed guidelines put out by pest companies and labels on how to spray and I do have an older pesticide certification for horticultural products (hence, some experience) I don't recommend doing it yourself but if you have to, check the labels and make sure they are the correct products to use AND KNOW SAFETY PROTOCOLS. If my bugs come back, I will interview every pco in my vicinity with a long list before hiring them but I never want to be PUT INTO A POSITION TO HAVE TO FINISH OFF WHERE THE PCO LEFT ME. Is there anyone who knows of a good pco in the hudson valley, NY area for my future reference? Maybe one who uses a dog? I hope I won't need them but have decided if a next time comes, I will go into debt if need be rather than finishing up their half a*s job.
I know someone who got rid of bedbugs with wintergreen alcohol. I know another person who got rid of them with an illegal pesticide. And there's always Richard Fagerlund's crafty homemade spray. And...
I appreciate the disclaimer, Rasputin, but who are we kidding. Hardware stores everywhere will run out of Ortho Home Defense tomorrow.
So, I have to ask, which formulation of Ortho Home Defense? Ortho HomeDefense Indoor Insect Killer Ready-To-Use? The one that is 4% d-limonene? Or Ortho Home Defense MAX? With bioallethrin and sumithrin? Or something else?
Because if you are going to tell us about the second coming, details would be great.
There is no study of OTC sprays and bedbugs. (Though I think Dini Miller tested the enzyme cleaners.)
If people are in detached, single-family homes, I don't care what you do.
If you're my neighbor, however, and self-treat with any of this stuff and don't tell me what you're up to, I'm gonna be a tad miffed.
And I agree with Hopelessnomo.....if you live in an apt don't try anything yourself beyond DE. I live in a single family so if I screw up, I am the only one who pays the price.
So you're bedbug-free now, purple? You had a weird PCO there. A strict constructionist. The Spot Treatment PCO, all pests killed on contact. Yikes.
It is my HOPE I am bed bug free, no sightings of any kind; castings, fecal spots, blood stains, bugs dead or alive for just about 5 weeks now. I regularly inspect and clean. No bites or marks that resemble any kind I had before for the same amount of time. Until then I was still getting a bite now and then. I did have a bad rash for 2-1/2 months (and 3 dr visits) before I discovered the cause and I do have that weird skin thing many talk about......I feel crawly a lot, feel bugs on me and looking directly on the spot know there isn't anything there. I am itchy a lot, my skin has become very ultra sensitive to fabrics, stray hairs. Sometimes I am certain my face is being bit and I know it is not as I am looking into the mirror! I feel as though I still must have them because of my weird skin reaction but they are not evident. The one good thing about my former PCO was she showed me how to inspect and this site has shown me what to look for (I had all of the signs originally). I still do DE and just yesterday re-inspected my mattress/boxspring encasements. I even tore off the dust cover underneath my sofas and did a long inspection with a flashlight a few weeks ago. And I caulked like mad. So, if they are still here, they are hiding well and I am not reacting to the bites like I used to. My boyfriend, who also reacted when we were originally infested, has nothing now. That's why I asked about a bed bug dog in my area; I really would like to put this to rest, one way or another.
Purple, it does sound like you got a dud.
Anyone who needs a personal introduction to each individual bug before treating is way off.
For others, we have a FAQ on choosing a PCO also. They are not all the same, as Purple discovered, but we think it's worth searching for one experienced with bed bugs, rather than doing it on your own.
Rasputin, there do seem to be people insisting they got rid of bed bugs in all kinds of ways. Would you believe I get a lot of emails on this? One guy claimed to aim a hair dryer at his baseboards, and thinks everyone should do that. Another used sticky rice, another basil. I don't really buy any of it. Yes--the product you describe is probably more effective than these methods, but remember--some people get rid of bed bugs easily because they only have a couple. (In such cases, a good vacuum and a load of laundry may even do it depending where they are. But I wouldn't count on only having a few, or on this method.)
I'm not advocating that people sprinkle basil over the floor and hope for the best.
As purplebugladee laid out in the post following mine, there are a lot of OTC products that serve the same purpose as the pesticides your PCO uses and feature similar ingredients. The vast majority of pesticides and tools the PCO uses can be purchased in stores as well. I'm NOT advocating DIY pest control by any means, but suggesting that you can use tools to cover spots that the PCO may have missed, as the original poster was inquiring about. Let's face it, 90% of the work here is done by the person being infested and not the PCO. As such, it quite frankly sucks if you have to pay a guy $1000+ to spray $100 worth of pesticides and miss spots after you've done the majority of the work. If spraying Bayer Home Pest Control makes one feel better, I say go for it.
The Ortho in question was the indoor MAX type. Again, I'm not advocating it's use as a DIY bed bug cure. Wondering whether or not tools of this sort have ever actually been appropriately and thoroughly tested on bbs.
Here's hoping the bugs are gone! And knowing how to inspect puts you ahead of most everyone else. I hope things work out.
"If spraying Bayer Home Pest Control makes one feel better, I say go for it."
I disagree. Especially for someone in an apartment. But, come to think of it, for someone in a house who is paying $1000+ to a professional? Hmm. A PCO with a $1000 fee is bringing something to the table, or is there something I'm missing?
It may be the same chemical ingredient that is in a professional version of the product, but it's almost certainly not the same percentage of the active ingredient.
The last thing I want to do is use a product that, if perchance a bug should walk on it, will merely give it the sniffles.
Resistance? Repellency? Safety?
These are not tedious questions. They can have an impact on your health and happiness, and I am including your chances of getting rid of your bedbugs under happiness.
People will do whatever they intend to do, obviously. And a small number of people actually do know what they're doing around pesticides but others, well, perhaps have not yet discovered their limitations.
But the beauty of a site like this, where so much suffering and regret has been gathered, examined and, one hopes, transformed into something approaching real knowledge, is to share the best available information and to do what we can so that new people don't make the mistakes we have already made.
We have been repeatedly told to stay away from Raid because these products are extremely repellent and have the potential of scattering bedbugs far and wide. (Will Raid kill a bedbug if directly sprayed? Probably. So will soap. Will it kill a bedbug that walks on it a day later?)
No one has yet warned us or advised us about Bayer Home Pest Control or you-name-it-OTC-product. I have no clue whether it works or not. Or whether it would help or not. (And 'not' is a fairly big category that encompasses an indifferent result to actual harm, to the project that matters, getting rid of your bedbugs.)
If you have knowledge to share, that is fantastic. Questions, even better. I too want to know whether an Ortho product is something people can use as an adjunct, when faced with less than professional pest control, or no professional pest control.
However, at this point, speaking for myself, I only have questions, no answers so, unlike you, I can't recommend that people buy these products to supplement or substitute their PCO's work. I can think of a number of better alternatives.
And, if it matters, I am someone who wishes PCOs were not necessary. In the big picture, the prohibitive expense, the inadequate materials, and the wide differences in skills and professionalism make the eradication of this pest with traditional pest control a very difficult proposition.
I hope your own situation is improving.
I agree with everything 'nomo just said.
Rasputin, I think you know I was not equating your idea with the basil method. Sorry my larger point was not clear. I suggest people read the DIY pest control FAQ since I was probably clearer there.
And like 'nomo, I am open to new information. But it has been said by many others, many times that Raid is repellent and not very effective: not a winning combination.
Unfortunately, you guys might be surprised (or perhaps not) as to how little a PCO who charges $1000+ for a home treatment brings to the table. Obviously not all are created equal, but I wouldn't entrust half of the ones I spoke with to rid my home of bedbugs.
Again though, I'm not advocating DIY pest control because like you, I realize the tools we have on hand are not as powerful, and in many instances just plain old ineffective, as those available to professionals. What I really want to know is how weak or strong or effective the stuff we have available really is. How does Bayer's 0.05% B-Cyfluthrin stack up the 10% Cyfluthrin that's being used in most people's apartments and homes? I have no clue, but would love to know as both products are specifically labeled for bedbugs. One is certainly less toxic than the other, but by how much on a relative basis? I for one would love to know.
On the one hand, its effectiveness can be solid and we can use it as a supplement. On the other, it may not, and would thus be prudent to remove "bedbugs" from the label and perhaps deter potential DIY-ers who read the label and think they've got all they need to fix the problem. The fact that no one really knows for sure is why I bring this up in the first place: there should be (maybe there is, I don't know) a database that details the effectiveness of these things.
"Unfortunately, you guys might be surprised (or perhaps not) as to how little a PCO who charges $1000+ for a home treatment brings to the table. Obviously not all are created equal..."
I agree completely, Rasputin, and knowing 'nomo, I bet she would too (her last post kind of implied she would).
Not all PCOs are equally experienced, but a person in a single-family home is in the best position to find the best ones. It's a lot of work to interview PCOs, but the first task is eliminating the ones who are not experienced and those who don't want the work. You would think they would tell you that they don't do bedbug jobs, but they may simply quote you a fee. The answer may not be the biggest firm or the one who quotes an impressive-sounding fee that makes you think they know what they're doing.
If you find a PCO who knows bedbugs, then you stand a good chance even if all the technicians it employs are not equally talented. The treatment protocol will be solid, the PCO will have an investment in the firm's reputation, and you can correct the problems that arise with the services by speaking with the manager or, depending on the size of the company, the technical manager.
A good PCO will want to solve your bedbug problem and be willing to try different things. And there are a number of really great PCOs who have more than just respect for their profession but also curiosity--and passion to use an abused word that is nevertheless apt.
And that PCO may not be the type who will pour you a drink when you visit their office or say soothing words when you call on the phone or who is interviewed by the press.
If you live in a private home, your chances of solving your problem are excellent.
Not all PCO's/PMPs (pest management professionals) are equal, each bed bug situation is different and people cooperate at different levels and have a wide range of clutter and tolerence. It's not always just a case of material but experience in treating and approach. I don't recommend the use of insecticide concentrates or residuals other than dusts for non professionals. And remember dusts like bed bugs should not be immediately visible. One of the better contact products to use is a product called Bedlam as it has significant effect on eggs as well.It is a crack and crevice aerosol; so crawl around and give the suckers a one second blast and remember to read the label.
I would like to add Raid home insect killer who claims to kill bb too DOES NOT WORK dont wast your $$
I can confirm W.O.B's statement about Bedlam. I tested it when the product first hit the market with great results, and usually have some on hand for small jobs or for follow ups. Moved away from using it extensively due to the cost and amount it can take to treat even just a room. Plus, if you've never had to depress an aerosol can for hours on end, feel lucky! It flat out hurts and renders your finger useless for a day or two from over exertion.
And yes, there can be big differences between A.I's (active ingredients) that are found in both PCO products and OTC. Remember, the AI is only part of the mix, the other 95-99.5% of the product is usually a closely guarded (and trademarked) formula. Not to mention, the AI's can come in several different forumlations. Cy-Kick CS for example, is a micro encapsulated product, I'm not sure if the Ortho stuff is as well. That can make a big difference in the residual active life, as well as the potential exposure to humans and animals. Now that several patents have been running out on some products, there are a LOT of "me too" products on the market at a cheaper expense because they didn't put in the decades of research and testing to bring it to market.
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