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what next?

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DE hazards

LP33

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Posted 4 years ago
Sat Mar 14 2009 21:47:29
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Hi folks, first time poster here from Toronto. I first spotted bed bugs in my apartment two and a half weeks ago. I saw a total of eight adult bugs over a period of four days, all on my bed. Two of those bugs were dead and between the mattress and box spring, and one of those may have been a cast skin. (Unfortunately I didn't take a picture of it or bring it to a PCO to be properly identified.)

As far as I can tell I have never been bitten, although my girlfriend has, possibly here or possibly at her house (she is currently treating an early infestation).

Two weeks ago I got rid of my bed, frame and all. Yes, I realize I could have encased it, but it was very old and stiff, so I figured the time was right. Since that day I haven't spotted evidence of a single bed bug. I've been sleeping on an air mattress surrounded by carpet tape.

My landlord, after bringing a captured bug to a PCO for identification, brought me back insecticide spray and dust. I used the spray (Pro B1 Home and Apartment Insecticide) on all the doorways and the perimeters of all the rooms. However, I then noticed that bed bugs aren't listed on the label as one of the pests it "controls." The closest description is "crawling insect pests." I decided to stop using it, since, as I understand, any treatment that doesn't kill bed bugs may simply cause them to relocate, making the situation worse. I have been using the dust, though (The Exterminator PM-57 domestic ultra light insecticide dust), which does specifically list bed bugs on the label. It was put on the bed, the couch and perimeters.

Two nights ago I was lucky enough to try out a CDC 3000 unit, which did not detect any bugs.

I have been working non-stop doing all the necessary laundering, ziplocking, cleaning, etc. My apartment looks like a disaster area with everything that's usually neatly tucked away in closets and dressers out in the open. I do not leave the house without first showering, then getting dressed right in front of the door with clothes sealed in Ziplocs that have been properly washed and dried, then heading straight out.

Needless to say, day-to-day life has been stressful since this began, to say the very least. I would like to think the bugs I saw were hitchhikers and that I got rid of all of them when I got rid of my bed, but I know I can't assume anything. I'm considering getting a bug-sniffing dog in here, which is effective and somewhat expensive, or maybe just going straight to treatment. I don't intend to stay in this apartment too much longer and when I move I need to be absolutely 100% certain I'm not taking any bugs with me. What should I do?
spideyjg

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Posted 4 years ago
Sun Mar 15 2009 1:19:55
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WTF they just brought you pesticides and said have at them? Did you read all the safety precautions on the products? I can't find anything on the the contents other than the 2 active ingredients,

"Pyrethrins 0.2%
Piperonyl Butoxide 1.0%"

that encompass 1.2% so what is on the label for the other material? If Amorphous Silica, Diatomaceous Earth, or Silicone Dioxide. See the warnings about it being an inhalation hazard.

Hell any pesticide dust is an inhalation hazard and you need a proper respirator.

Jim
buggyinsocal

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Posted 4 years ago
Sun Mar 15 2009 1:20:31
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There are a couple of points here that I can give you some info that may be useful about.

First up, the part where you say that you've never been bitten. If there were bugs in your apartment, you were probably bitten. The problem is that apparently a significant chunk of the population (like maybe as high as 60%) doesn't react to bed bug bites. Chances are that both your and your gf were getting bitten, but she reacted to the bites and you didn't.

Secondly, generally on the boards we suggest against trying to self-treat. It's possible that you had a small infestation and that you caught it in time. However, the fact that it's entirely possible that you don't react to bites means that it's going to be that much harder for you to tell whether what you've done so far has gotten rid of the bugs.

Third, is your landlord responsible for paying for treatment? What are the laws in Ontario about landlords doing their own pest control? Maybe someone here knows that.

Fourth, if you want to be sure that your apartment is clear--which I would suggest is exactly what you want to do before you, say, buy a new bed, and to make sure that you and your gf don't reinfest each other's places--a bed bug dog and handler team that is well trained might be the best option, esp. since you don't appear to react to the bites.

As for moving, many people in the US have their belongings fumigated with Vikane in a truck between the old place and the new place. Somebody recently posted that they couldn't find a Vikane PCO in their part of Canada, but like a typical person from the US, I now don't remember which province he or she was in. Sorry about that.

In any case, if you've got more questions about any of that, ask away, and I'll try to check back in tomorrow morning. In the meantime, it's back to more exciting hours of late night paper grading for me.
LP33

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Posted 4 years ago
Sun Mar 15 2009 11:59:45
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spideyjg, that's exactly how it happened. I was handed the two products and some literature from the PCO (a bed bug fact sheet and preparation for treatment instructions) and that was it. On the label for the dust, under Precautions, it says "Keep out of reach of children. Cover or remove food-stuffs, utensils and aquariums from room being dusted. Avoid inhalation, as product contains diatomaceous earth (silicone dioxide) a very fine powder. Use with adequate ventilation. Do not use as a general spray." And it doesn't list any ingredients other than the two you've posted. Will I be okay wearing a mask when I apply the dust?

buggyinsocial, I should have said that I do realize I could have been bitten and just didn't show any reaction. That's pretty scary to me, but I guess it's just another in a long list of reasons why bed bugs are difficult to detect and eradicate.

I'm not sure what Ontario law says about who's responsible for treatment. I'll have to look it up, or somebody here may enlighten us.

As I said, I'd really like to get a bed bug dog in here, although I know that even if it doesn't find anything I still won't be totally convinced and probably still get treatment done.

A PCO told us that Vikane is not available in Canada. I'm not sure if that means it's not legal or what. I know Packtite is an option for any objects that can fit in it, but what about larger things like furniture?
spideyjg

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Posted 4 years ago
Sun Mar 15 2009 12:49:59
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See the tag up top for DE Hazards.

DE is a highly effective tool when used properly and safely. Get a respirator that is rated at P, N or R 100 for best filtration.

Is the PCO gonna come back and treat the joint? If so ask him whether you should apply anything or not. Odds are not.

Jim
buggyinsocal

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Posted 4 years ago
Sun Mar 15 2009 13:01:36
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I think if you want to be 100% safe with the products you were given by the LL, you should look up what specific mask you should use during application. Not all masks and respirators are equal; most are designed for specific tasks. I didn't use DE, so I don't know the specs on the equipment off my head, but I bet Spideyjg does.

I also remember hearing that Vikane isn't available in Canada. That doesn't entirely surprise me. While it is used for multiple pests, it's primarily used in my neck of the woods (southern California) for dry wood termites, which I wouldn't imagine that Canada has as big a problem with (being not an esp. dry climate and all).

Unfortunately, when it comes to getting rid of bed bugs, there are only two treatments that I know of that when applied properly have a good chance at getting rid of all the bugs in one go: fumigation with Vikane (which is clearly not an option) and thermal remediation. I think there's someone doing thermal in Vancouver, but I don't remember if there's anyone in Ontario, but I seem to remember that the answer is no. (If I'm wrong, I'm happy to be corrected.) (I should also mention that those treatments tend to be more expensive anyway. Vikane must be used on a whole building or on a moving truck. Thermal can be used on a single apartment, but it's not widely available. Like Vikane, it's a treatment more widely available in the desert Southwest US because people use it for, yep, you guessed it, dry wood termites. Because of the bed bug resurgence, it's gaining popularity elsewhere. There are now thermal providers in Boston, at least one in NY/NJ, and I believe one in Ohio. But I have a vague recollection that someone here from Ontario posted looking for info but found that there weren't any thermal providers in the area.)

Treatment with chemical pesticides can be very effective, if done properly. But it usually takes a PCO to apply the specific chemicals in the most effective mixtures in the most effective places. And Bedlam is the only chemical pesticide that kills bed bug eggs, and even then it's not 100% effective. That's why in most chemical treatments, PCOs return every two or three weeks to reapply chemicals and do whatever other remediation they do (like steaming, vacuuming, etc.), because it takes about two weeks for freshly laid bb eggs to hatch into first stage nymphs. Since we don't have any pesticides that reliably kill the eggs, my understanding is that reapplication at that point takes out the next generation.

Given all of that, I have to agree with you. I would start by finding out who is responsible for paying for treatment. I would also, given what your landlord did so far, be somewhat skeptical about the chances of your LL hiring a good, reliable PCO.

Once you know your rights, I might post here in a new thread asking for bed bug dog/handler recs for your metro area. We have a number of pros who come by the boards regularly, some of whom have been willing to get handler/dog team recs for people before. you might be much more confident in the dog's report if you got a rec for the dog/handler team from a pro, no?

The other thing to keep in mind is that unless you live in a single family house, you will need to have the neighboring apartments inspected for bed bugs as even f you're clear, it's possible that they're also in an adjoining apartment, and they'll come back if you chase them out of your place if that's not the only place with them.

If I were you, and I had a good dog/handler team clear my apartment, and all adjoining ones, and I went 60 days with no signs of new activity, I'd feel as confident as I was going to that I was clear.
BugsInTO

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Posted 4 years ago
Sun Mar 15 2009 14:11:19
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Hi Fellow Torontonian:

Please make sure to post your bldg (w/o apt #) on the BedbugRegistry.

Check the City of Toronto Public Health website for more info on bedbugs. You can also call and ask for an Inspector to call you.

http://www.toronto.ca/health/bedbugs/index.htm

If your apt is covered by the Ontario Residential Tenancies Act, then it is your landlord's responsibility to maintain your apt in a pest-free condition - you do the preparation and they do the pest treatment. [FYI - Don't be mislead by misinformation from the Ontario Ministry Tenant Hotline. The Act says that the landlord has to maintain the unit in accordance with municipal standards, and each municipality can have a different standard. Toronto Public Health has made it clear that Toronto's standard includes "free of bedbugs." {Caveat - I am not a lawyer.)]

Encourage your landlord to hire a good professional and to use an IPM with both chemicals and steam. It's in your landlord's best interests to do it right the first time. And, you probably don't need a second career.

You should check with your neighbours too and see how they are doing.

Good luck.
losingit

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Posted 4 years ago
Mon Mar 16 2009 9:12:58
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LP33 - I'm in toronto too, as far as I know it's the LL responsibility to pay for treatment, unless you have a lease or something that says otherwise. I'm not positive about that but from my experience renting in T.O. that's usually the case.

If you want a dog to check out there's only one company in Ontario as yet. Call Purity Pest control. I used him quite a few times, handler and dog are trained by the top guy in Florida - Bill Whitestone I think.

If you got a new bed, mattress/boxspring, I'd get the BugLock encasements too. I got mine at Sleep Country. They're pricey but well worth it.

Keep us posted!
Emmm

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Posted 4 years ago
Mon Mar 16 2009 23:49:00
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LP33 is my boyfriend, and we're both fighting what appear to be really minor infestations. We're pretty sure the first bites I had were from his place, in fact, though the source of bbs for both of us is a mutual friend (who's not really a friend at the moment).

He tossed his bed, as he mentioned, and has not seen anything since. I know it's not likely, but is it at all possible he managed to get the bed bugs when he got rid of the very old bed and mattress? He's on an air mattress at the moment.

I personally had Kody in because while my roommate and I never saw bed bugs, I'd been bitten (two times, multiple bites each time, spaced 9 days apart), it made no sense that our friend had them and LP had them, but not us. Kody identified two places (one of two couches and my bed), and away we went prepping for treatment. That was easy. LP's concern is if Kody doesn't pick anything up, can he trust it? Should he get treatment anyways? Also, shouldn't Kody go into the other units as well to check? Because perhaps LP simply sent the bugs a-packing by doing what he was instructed to do. LP has actually seen adults and casings, while we haven't. So who knows how bad it had to have been to get to that point?

My opinion on his landlord's mishandling of the situation is pretty curse-filled... and they aren't exactly bad landlord's, either.
MyWorstFear

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Posted 4 years ago
Tue Mar 17 2009 0:08:31
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Is it even legal for the LL to hand you pesticides and tell you to do it yourself?
Emmm, it's possible that when your boyfriend tossed the bed and mattress, a few bugs dropped off and "escaped", now hiding in cracks and crevices or the sofa waiting for their next meal (you guys!).
Emmm

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Posted 4 years ago
Tue Mar 17 2009 0:11:23
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It's possible, absolutely. He was exceedingly careful, though. (Wrapped mattress in plastic, duct taped, etc. Bed frame too, I think?)

My biggest hope is that he somehow is magically clean. Because I think I just found another bite (on my chin-- roommate and I sat on the couches first time since treatment Friday), and I'm just ready to cry all over again. At least if he's okay, it's just one infestation to fight instead.
LP33

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Posted 4 years ago
Tue Mar 17 2009 23:10:32
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It's true, I did carefully wrap the bed in the mattress bags and taped it tightly shut before taking it out of the apartment, although it's entirely possible some bugs could've escaped during the process.

The landlords told me that everyone in the house (four units total) has been on the lookout for bugs and haven't seen any. I pointed out that they still could be anywhere, however, it's a pretty safe bet that if I get an inspection and/or treatment in my apartment, it won't get done in the rest of the house. So, am I wrong in thinking that treatment would be kind of useless in that case?