Got Bed Bugs? Bedbugger Forums » Bed bug science, "experiments," etc.

What is the state of research and funds being invested into a 'magic bullet'?

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  1. mitchbuchanan

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Oct 18 2013 11:38:51
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    How much money and research is going into finding a final AFFORDABLE solution for these bugs? I have tried 4 different PCOs, every treatment method known to man (except heat treatment for which I was quoted a $8,000 price tag which seems ludicrous) and still I have not gotten rid of them, and am now $10,000+ in the red due to these bugs (and recently lost my job to boot).

    My only hope now is that the scientists and brilliant minds of the human race to devise an affordable magic bullet solution to bed bugs. Does anybody know how much money and research is being driven to find a cure to bed bugs? How long will it be until I can finally find peace?

  2. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Oct 18 2013 11:58:40
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    Hi,

    I have to be honest and say its only the US where such vast and unsustainable fees seem to be supported by the market. It may be that this is all a side effect of the overly litigious culture that has been developed but from an outsiders perspective is not pleasant to see to be honest.

    Now as for magic bullets the question you should ask is how long will it take for the next "magic bullet" to be blunted by those that use it. In the same way that MRSA and C-Dif have developed resistance to antibiotics the same occurs with insecticides and tolerance that results in resistance.

    The shame of it is that some of the solutions out there can be deployed cost effectively, environmentally sensitively and in a format that works in both private dwellings and social housing but they take a greater understanding of the issue that some aspects of the industry are prepared to take on. For example I was once told by a trade body "the tent is not big enough yet", when asked for clarification it would appear that some organisations do not feel the issue is pervasive enough yet to take the steps that are needed to get ahead of this issue.

    One of those steps is good quality education, to that end I have said this before and I will say it again "there is no magic bullet, there will be no long term magic bullet and frankly the pursuit of this approach will get you nowhere".

    Its not about finding a bigger hammer its about working better. I am so board of people wanting to discuss how to kill bedbugs, the methods are out there w need to teach people how to use them correctly.

    Hope that makes sense.

    David Cain
    Bed Bugs Limited

    If you have found this information helpful please consider leaving feedback on social media via google+ or FaceBook or by like/loving the images.

    In accordance with the AUP and FTC (legal requirements) I openly disclose my vested interest in Passive Monitors as the inventor and patent holder. Since 2009 they have become an integral part in how we resolve bed bug infestations. I also have a professional relationship with PackTite in that they distribute my product under their own branding. I do not however receive any financial remuneration for any comments I make about products.
  3. mitchbuchanan

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Oct 18 2013 12:48:47
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    I agree with you that the methods are out there, however , after trying 4 different companies, spending so much money, countless hours upon eons of researching and trying out different methods, I'm still living with them. You are right, it's ridiculous that I have to pay 7 grand for a thermal treatment, I guess the capitalistic nature of the US spurs these business to try and make the most profit they can, especially because it is inelastic demand, meaning people like me who are fed up will pay ANYTHING(if having the funds) to get rid of them, and companies are taking advantage of this fact. I guess I don't need a magic bullet per say, just a COST EFFECTIVE treatment that is more effective than what is currently out there.

  4. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Oct 18 2013 12:55:24
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    Heck at $7K I am tempted to say I will fly over and resolve it all for you. I think the only states I am not allowed to work in a Florida and California, outside of that there is nothing stopping me as I tend not to use chemicals anymore.

    The most I have ever charged a single property was less than $1,500 and that was an 8 bed 20 room mansion where the person called me at 3am.

    Sorry to say that thermal / fumigation or any other single application treatment process will not work if you have a "local source" issue.

    As you can gather I am not too impressed with some of what I have seen over the last 10 years and a few people need to be packed off to be used as test subjects for medical trials as it likely to be the only contribution they could make to humanity.

    David

  5. needrest

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Oct 18 2013 16:41:09
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    Even going the D.I.Y. route the cost is through the roof. Dry vapor steamer, DE, climbups and encasements. Not to mention the time involved. I don,t work I don,t get paid. I,m talking around $1000.00 not counting loss of work.

  6. endless_nightmare

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Oct 18 2013 20:46:29
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    I think a lot of it is education also

    As silly as it may sound, I had no idea that a heat treatment could fail when I paid for them, otherwise I would have never given them a dime. So yes they ripped me off, but a lot of it is my own fault, if I had come to this board in due time and taken the time to see that indeed they fail often.

    The problem is that you become so sick and tired and desperate and you think it's so expensive, it's gotta work, you don't really have the money but you fork it over anyway.

    In the end the PCO that solved my issue was the cheapest one.....

    Had I called him first, I'd be a lot richer today

    Andrea
    not a PCO
    Spinal Cord Injury Advocacy/Volunteer
  7. needrest

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Sat Oct 19 2013 8:14:46
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    Hi endless nightmare, I agree. More education needed on both sides of the fence. Folks getting treated/folks doing the treatments.

  8. needrest

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Sat Oct 19 2013 8:33:37
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    Hey David, Have you ever thought about "opening up shop" in the states?

  9. Raising Cain

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Sat Oct 11 2014 15:04:55
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    CimeXa is as close to a magic bullet as you will find. It's only been on the market a couple of years so many PCOs have not yet included it as part of their treatment. I decided to start using the DIY approach because of concern over pesticide health risks and, if that didn't work, I would use a PCO. I detailed my situation and approach (DIE..Dust, Isolate, Encase) in this thread. I had a moderate infestation which had spread throughout my apartment. CimeXa was the key to clearing it in about 3 weeks. It's a very safe, highly effective, low cost product. Here is more detail:

    Resistance - CimeXa is a dessicant which works by destroying the waxy, protective outer coating on a bed bug. Once this coating is destroyed, the bed bugs will slowly dehydrate and die. Because desiccants work through a physical mode of action, the bed bugs cannot become resistant to them as they can to pesticides with other modes of action. A troubling article in September issue of PCT indicates that bedbugs are developing resistance to the newest dual ingredient pesticides at an alarming rate. I suspect over time PCOs exclusively using these pesticides will notice worsening results and then be forced to change to a dessicant or new types of pesticides will have to be developed.

    Repellency - Tests show that bedbugs will walk through dessicants like CimeXa so long as they are not mounds; only a light dusting is required to achieve desired results. The possibility for repellency is greater for other types of pesticides including dusts. These dusts typically contain some silica but also pyrethrins or pyrethroids which often repel the bedbugs.

    Efficacy - This article in August issue of PCT summarizes lab AND field test results for CimeXa. In lab tests, CimeXa dust was highly effective against all three strains of bedbugs, killing all of them within 24 to 48 hours. In those tests, the popular liquid insecticide Temprid SC was considerably less effective, especially against the two populations highly resistant to pyrethroids. In field trials, CimeXa dust caused a rapid decline in bed bug numbers in treated apartments - an 82.3 percent reduction was noted after one week and 98.1 percent fewer bugs were found by the final evaluation.

    Safety - CimeXa has been designated Level 3 toxicity by the EPA which is the lowest level of toxicity (other than zero) on their scale. It's been approved by New York state (rigorous review process) which has yet to approve other popular products such as Transport and Phantom. It's been approved as a food additive and for use on mattresses. There is no inhalation hazard beyond that of household dust because the product is made exclusively of synthetic non-crystalline silica gel, not the naturally occurring silica found in sand mines which can cause silicosis. The only potential health problem revealed in testing is eye irritation at the highest intake level. My eyes are so sensitive that I am unable to use suntan lotion on my face. I didn't experience any irritation when I used the product. All that said, I think it's prudent not to leave large amounts of CimeXa in exposed areas over a prolonged period of time. The literature indicates treatment over a 3 month period should pose little to no health risk.

    Cost - Using pricing at domyownpestcontrol.com/, a 4 oz bottle costs $11.66 (includes free shipping). In the University of Kentucky study, 1 to 3 ounces were applied in each of the 6 apartments. I used about 3 ounces in my apartment.

    From my own experience and the most recent studies, I would say CimeXa should be the cornerstone of any treatment plan. The second most important product would be quality encasements like SafeRest by Everyday Pure. Simply put: a thorough treatment of bed frame and use of encasements will take care of bugs already in the bed. CimeXa will take care of bedbugs outside of the bed. Certainly, if you follow a DIY approach, CimeXa is much safer than other pesticides. Additionally, in comparison to the very popular dessicant Diatomaceous Earth, CimeXa works faster and more reliably in killing bedbugs and is a bit safer because DE will often contain small amounts of crystalline silica. The ultimate test of CimeXa will be the results from more widespread use by PCOs. Until then, cautious optimism imo is the best way to view this product.

  10. Raising Cain

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Sat Oct 11 2014 20:56:34
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    Sorry but I forgot to include an important link in the above post. I wrote that CimeXa kills bedbugs faster and more reliably than Diatomaceous Earth (DE). Right after that, I meant to place the following link to a study by the University of Kentucky on the efficacy of DE:
    http://www.pctonline.com/pct1213-Diatomaceous-earth-study.aspx
    University of Kentucky also performed the efficacy tests on CimeXa using very similar methodology (I summarized results and provided link in earlier post).

    Bottom Line: DE did not perform well in field tests and article provides possible reasons whereas CimeXa perfomed like a champ. DIYers and pros alike should be using Cimexa instead of DE as their dessicant of choice. As I mentioned above, because resistance to non-dessicants is proceeding at an alarming rate, I expect more and more PCOs will choose CimeXa as their leading pesticide of choice.

  11. Strawbale

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Mon Oct 13 2014 22:02:52
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    Thanks for your input, Raising Cain. That's very good to know. I haven't found any bedbugs, but I'm still convinced they lurk somewhere. I had read good things about Tempo dust (even some research on it, such as here). Do you know if Tempo and Cimexa have been compared in trials? Are they essentially the same? If Cimexa is better, why? Thanks so much for your time.

  12. Raising Cain

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Tue Oct 14 2014 12:52:23
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    Do you know if Tempo and Cimexa have been compared in trials? Are they essentially the same? If Cimexa is better, why?

    I'm not aware of any recent tests of Tempo 1%. The products are similar in that they are in dust form but very different in that CimeXa is a dessicant while Tempo is chemical-based. CimexXa is safer and would probably outperform Tempo overall because Tempo is pyrethroid-based so you have resistance and repellency issues. University of Kentucky did test Temprid (made by same manufacturer as Tempo) in the same trial as CimeXa. Temprid contains the same pyrethroid as Tempo and a neonicotimoid as well. It didn't perform as well as CimeXa on the pyrethroid-resistant populations of bed bugs. That said, Temprid is a liquid insecticide versus dust which could affect efficacy; also Tempo 1% contains some ingredients labeled as "trade secret" so that further complicates projecting how it would perform in actual tests.

    The only way to be 100% sure is independent testing by a reputable organization. Your question would be moot if the US federal government provided grant to some university to conduct annual tests of bed bug pesticides, much like Consumer Reports' annual evaluations of selected products. Such a yearly review would garner much attention and be discussed on news, blogs and websites. For example, if those DE and CimeXa studies I referenced above had been performed within that structure, I doubt anybody would be using DE today and CimeXa use would be more widespread.

    In the absence of government action, word has to be spread in other ways. For example, the "pro tip" on doyourownpestcontrol.com states the following: "Cimexa Dust is considered the best dust for bed bugs." Jeff White posted a video at BedBugCentral just after the DE efficacy study and stated his company had switched to CimeXa. I hope NoBugsOnMe will change the DE FAQ to reflect the latest developments. I suggest renaming it to "Dessicants", talk about the difference between dessicants and other types of pesticides, and then discuss DE and CimeXa in that context.

    I haven't found any bedbugs, but I'm still convinced they lurk somewhere.

    Heh, I know the feeling - I still believe they're lying in wait somewhere in my apartment. But I do know where at least some of them are. I didn't treat the box spring before encasing it. After I encased it, I stood it against the wall for about an hour while I treated the metal bed frame. After the hour, I noticed in 4 places BBs were trying to bite/pierce through the encasement so I decided to delay placing the box spring on frame for 4 hours to monitor their progress. Three of them gave up but the 4th was still gnawing away - none of them made any headway. That night I had anticipated a relatively calm sleep but my imagination ran wild. I envisioned a scenario where 100+ bugs would take turns gnawing at the same spot in tag team fashion and eventually would break through. A mob of hungry and angry BBs would feast on me. I'd either sleep through it and awaken to find 100+bites or I would awake in the middle of it to a scene right out of Willard or Hitchcock's The Birds. I now tell myself they're all probably dead since about 3 months have gone by and I doubt they would have gone dormant because of the temperature. No way I'm brave enough to test my theory by removing the encasement and inspecting the box spring!

  13. BigDummy

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Tue Oct 14 2014 13:21:29
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    Just to clarify for the readers; gnawing isn't something bed bugs are built for, they cannot chew their way out from an encasement.
    They'll just wait for you to tear it on your own...

    HVAC/Locksmith/Bed Bug Control for a non-profit homeless shelter and long term veteran housing.
  14. Raising Cain

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Tue Oct 14 2014 15:30:51
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    Just to clarify for the readers; gnawing isn't something bed bugs are built for, they cannot chew their way out from an encasement.

    Fair enough - the way I stated it imo was accurate but perhaps misleading to someone who is not familiar with how bed bugs bite. I never used the word "chew" in my post; I said "bite/pierce", placing pierce next to bite to indicate that was the nature of the biting mechanism. Biting is typically associated with teeth but obviously that is not always the case. Similarly, gnawing is typically associated with chewing but the word is also used more broadly to mean any wearing or eroding action. So a BB persistently pressing its elongated beak against the encasement fabric could correctly be described as a gnawing action.

  15. BigDummy

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Tue Oct 14 2014 16:17:43
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    You say tomato, I say eff you.

  16. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Tue Oct 14 2014 16:41:18
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    Hi BigDummy,

    Sorry to take this off subject slightly but how are you getting on raising your colony?

    You learn a lot from working with them in that way.

    David

  17. BigDummy

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Tue Oct 14 2014 17:13:30
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    Getting ready for a termite treatment in a few weeks, We're paying to have the dose increased to get rid of any stragglers in that property and I'll have a few sacrifices hidden within the structure for my own test. Speaking with an entomologist friend today while working on an infestation and he had concern over the gas used in a crawlspace house as opposed to a slab house and asked if I had any ready to go for the test.
    Other than that just feeding and separating in preparation for a controlled breeding/feeding and collecting of eggs like the experiment I toyed with earlier this year.

  18. theyareoutthere

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Tue Oct 14 2014 19:13:08
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    BigDummy - 2 hours ago  » 
    You say tomato, I say eff you.

    I'm trying to decide if this is against the site's policy....nah, I say it to Abs all the time (but not OUT LOUD).

    So, you are hiding part of your colony during vikane treatment for termites? In sealed bottles right? I would hate to think of any of them gnawing on BD or his family.

    They
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  19. AbsolutelyFreaking

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Tue Oct 14 2014 20:57:37
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    theyareoutthere -  » 
    I'm trying to decide if this is against the site's policy....nah, I say it to Abs all the time (but not OUT LOUD).

    OUCH!!!

    . . . But against the policy or not, I thought it was eff'n hilarious . . .

    . . . You say tomato, I say eff you. Hahahahahahaha! Hilarious!

  20. theyareoutthere

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Tue Oct 14 2014 21:01:35
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    It's not OUT LOUD, Abs. To your cyber face, I'm pretty sweet, right?

    The issue I have with Raising Cain is it sounds like he is recommending a plan of action based on research, and it's fine that it was his choice. I'm just concerned that he's not an expert and saying things like the encasement should take care of the bed and XYZ the rest....well, my personal thoughts are that kind of recommendation should be left to the experts. If you are clear two years...maybe...or maybe jointly write up something with one of the experts. But, I'd feel bad if people followed the advice and felt like they had failed whereas an expert knows how to find harborages, how to clean a bed, how to apply products correctly, etc.

  21. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Tue Oct 14 2014 21:04:47
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    Swearing is not formally off limits.

    Hinting at swearing ("eff") is really not a problem.

    And for that matter, Big Dummy can do no wrong.

    Hope this clarifies the site policies!

    I started and run the site but am "not an expert."
  22. theyareoutthere

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Tue Oct 14 2014 21:06:48
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    Et tu, Nobugs?

    NB and BD are the only two nonexperts in Ab's signature....

  23. Nobugsonme

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    Tue Oct 14 2014 21:09:08
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    theyareoutthere - 5 minutes ago  » 
    ... Raising Cain is it sounds like he is recommending a plan of action based on research, and it's fine that it was his choice. I'm just concerned that he's not an expert and saying things like the encasement should take care of the bed and XYZ the rest....well, my personal thoughts are that kind of recommendation should be left to the experts. If you are clear two years...maybe...or maybe jointly write up something with one of the experts. But, I'd feel bad if people followed the advice and felt like they had failed whereas an expert knows how to find harborages, how to clean a bed, how to apply products correctly, etc.

    Yes- and this is part of the culture of the site, that for the most part, non-experts shouldn't be giving treatment instructions.

  24. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Tue Oct 14 2014 21:12:19
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    theyareoutthere - 3 minutes ago  » 
    Et tu, Nobugs?
    NB and BD are the only two nonexperts in Ab's signature....

    Where did the Julius Caesar reference come in?!?
    I have nothing but love for you, TAOT!

  25. theyareoutthere

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Tue Oct 14 2014 21:19:33
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    Sniff, sniff...thanks...I'm really very sensitive...

    Et tu...meant are you jumping on the BD bandwagon like Abs, BIS, my grandmother (who lurks), etc?

    Ok, I'll quit hijacking this thread.

  26. Nobugsonme

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    Tue Oct 14 2014 21:45:35
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    theyareoutthere - 24 minutes ago  » 
    Sniff, sniff...thanks...I'm really very sensitive...
    Et tu...meant are you jumping on the BD bandwagon like Abs, BIS, my grandmother (who lurks), etc?
    Ok, I'll quit hijacking this thread.

    Oh, good-- I thought you felt stabbed in the back!

    I have been a Big Dummy fan since day 1.

    And publicly, though I don't do cat fights.

  27. theyareoutthere

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    Tue Oct 14 2014 22:17:50
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    Cat fight? It's my middle name.

  28. Strawbale

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    Wed Oct 15 2014 0:41:48
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    Thanks, Raising Cain, for clarifying the difference. I see what you're saying. I don't know why it hasn't gotten more attention (Cimexa). I think sometimes there's a reluctance to ascribe too much success to a particular product for fear it will cause readers to somehow abandon everything else they need to do and just begin wantonly blanketing the house with the product.

    And for sure, some may do just that.

    So while it's important to look at the big picture, of which the best dust is just one part, I think it's also important to share every scrap of research there is on which dust performed the best and maybe why..

    I can't see how this isn't an important enough health threat (especially in certain areas) to warrant a lot of research grants. You've all heard of 'stupid' grants - such as these. It's just hard to believe these wretched creatures, this scourge, hasn't prompted anyone to spend some serious money.

    I laughed out loud at your nightmare description. So familiar!! I haven't been bitten since encasing, deep cleaning, putting DE down (yes, ), and spraying liberally with Temprid SC. Still, I am uneasy. I never found a 'harborage' and concluded they are in my box spring. Or were.

  29. BigDummy

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Wed Oct 15 2014 8:18:20
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    Cimexa is in use on the professional level, maybe it just hasn't become popular yet with the DIY set.

  30. AbsolutelyFreaking

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    Wed Oct 15 2014 10:49:52
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    Raising Cain -  » 

    Just to clarify for the readers; gnawing isn't something bed bugs are built for, they cannot chew their way out from an encasement.

    Fair enough - the way I stated it imo was accurate but perhaps misleading to someone who is not familiar with how bed bugs bite. I never used the word "chew" in my post; I said "bite/pierce", placing pierce next to bite to indicate that was the nature of the biting mechanism.

    I also thought the word "gnawing" was misleading and confusing.

    Raising Cain -  » 
    Biting is typically associated with teeth but obviously that is not always the case. Similarly, gnawing is typically associated with chewing but the word is also used more broadly to mean any wearing or eroding action.

    In my dictionary (The American Heritage) the first definition of gnawing is: "1. a. To bite, chew on, or erode with the teeth." (Emphasis added.) . . . But, yes, further down in the definition it states: "1. To bite or chew persistently: . . . 2. To cause erosion or gradual diminishment."

    Raising Cain -  » 
    So a BB persistently pressing its elongated beak against the encasement fabric could correctly be described as a gnawing action.

    Ummmm, (imo) not so much . . . but even if technically correct in its broadest sense of the word . . . it's very confusing and misleading when discussed in connection with bed bugs! (imo.)

    theyareoutthere -  » 
    NB and BD are the only two nonexperts in Ab's signature....

    So what are you saying TAOT? . . . Would you like me to add something to my signature regarding you? I can do that! [insert sinister/evil laugh]

    theyareoutthere -  » 
    It's not OUT LOUD, Abs. To your cyber face, I'm pretty sweet, right?

    Ummm . . . you're kidding . . . right?!?!?!

  31. AbsolutelyFreaking

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Wed Oct 15 2014 12:03:01
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    Dear Nobugs,

    I just came up with some more ideas for the "new" system when it's up and running!!!

    Can we adopt a "Survivor" like mentality and forum users get together and "vote" someone off the island???

    . . . or at least . . . after so many "dislikes" on a particular post, be able to delete a particular post? (Or be able to vote for a post to be deleted?)

    (I'm a genius I tell ya!)

    Would you like me to put this up in the green stickies forum wish list??

  32. Raising Cain

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    Wed Oct 15 2014 12:37:57
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    @AbsolutelyFreaking You know I let this silliness go yesterday. I never responded to BD's zinger and had no intention of responding today. I was preparing a response to Strawbale's thoughtful post when I saw your comment. But I'm kinda fed up with all this niggling gnawing crap so if you and others want to continue to play this game then take a shot at answering these questions:

    (1) Do you believe BD's response was appropriate given my reply to his original post?
    (2) What do you believe was BD's primary motivation in making his original post: to educate readers or to undermine my credibility?
    (3) Here is what Nobugsonme said concerning BD's words and site policy:

    Swearing is not formally off limits. Hinting at swearing ("eff") is really not a problem. And for that matter, Big Dummy can do no wrong. Hope this clarifies the site policies!

    Here is a direct quote from Forum Rules: PLEASE READ! which she left out: "It should also go without saying that swearing at other users is not permitted."

    Do you believe Nobugsonme handled the situation appropriately?

    If you and others are interested in more substantive matters, maybe take a shot at these:

    (4) I stated that there is no reason for anyone to prefer DE over CimeXa in the fight against bed bugs. CimeXa is far more effective and more reliably safe than DE and it only costs $11 to treat an entire apartment. Do you agree?

    (5) If you agree, do you think Nobugsonme should update the DE FAQ to include Cimexa (citing the DE and Cimexa studies both of which were conducted in roughly the past year) and possibly other dessicant dusts like Drione?

  33. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Wed Oct 15 2014 12:55:43
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    I can think of one good reason why someone may pick DE over Cimexa and simply put it's that while this website is available all over the world Cimexa is not.

    I think that's a rather valid point don't you?

    David

  34. Raising Cain

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Wed Oct 15 2014 13:06:39
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    Touche David! though I could make the reasonable argument that its availability was implied

  35. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Wed Oct 15 2014 13:10:25
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    There is no touché implied or needed and it's also an inappropriate comment to make.

    It would have only need valid if I had of chosen to point out the inaccuracies of gnawing comments but so do feel others have covered that faux pas well enough.

    David

  36. BigDummy

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Wed Oct 15 2014 13:34:41
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    Raising Cain - 51 minutes ago  » 
    (1) Do you believe BD's response was appropriate given my reply to his original post?
    (2) What do you believe was BD's primary motivation in making his original post: to educate readers or to undermine my credibility?

    Lighten up Francis, it was a joke. My primary motivation was to educate with a bit of humor; assuming that you're important enough to warrant your credibility undermined is I hope your attempt at the same.

  37. AbsolutelyFreaking

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Wed Oct 15 2014 13:58:35
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    Raising Cain -  » 
    @AbsolutelyFreaking . . . . if you and others want to continue to play this game then take a shot at answering these questions:

    Dear Raising Cain,

    Based on the above quote, I take it that this is an open invitation for me (and others) to answer/address you questions . . .

    Therefore, speaking for myself only:

    Raising Cain -  » 
    @AbsolutelyFreaking You know I let this silliness go yesterday. I never responded to BD's zinger and had no intention of responding today. I was preparing a response to Strawbale's thoughtful post when I saw your comment. But I'm kinda fed up with all this niggling gnawing crap so if you and others want to continue to play this game then take a shot at answering these questions:

    It is my impression and opinion that I'm glad you "let this silliness go" . . . because it seems to me your sole purpose in joining the forum was to "Raise Cain" and stir as much shit up as you can. . . .

    But just because you chose to "let this silliness go" . . . doesn’t mean I didn't have the right to voice my opinion (for educational purposes and future less bed bug knowledgeable readers) that I also thought the use of the word "gnawing" was misleading and confusing when used in discussing bed bugs . . .

    And when that was pointed out . . . instead of you maybe just acquiescing that some people might find it confusing (which you sort of did by stating "Fair enough - the way I stated it imo was accurate but perhaps misleading to someone who is not familiar with how bed bugs bite") . . . you had to "argue" your case so you would be "right" at all costs . . .

    Thereby enforcing my initial impression that you are only here to stir and argue. IMO you have some valid points and potential good ideas . . . but they are possibly getting lost in your lust and desire to argue with anyone and everyone.

    Raising Cain -  » 
    (1) Do you believe BD's response was appropriate given my reply to his original post?

    It is my impression and opinion that appropriate or not, as I stated earlier, I thought it was funny . . . mostly because of your never ending hankering to argue and butt heads.

    Raising Cain -  » 
    (2) What do you believe was BD's primary motivation in making his original post: to educate readers or to undermine my credibility?

    It is my impression and opinion, and I honestly thought, that BD's primary motive was to let less educated forum users know that bed bugs cannot gnaw or chew through encasements.

    Raising Cain -  » 
    (3) Here is what Nobugsonme said concerning BD's words and site policy:

    Swearing is not formally off limits. Hinting at swearing ("eff") is really not a problem. And for that matter, Big Dummy can do no wrong. Hope this clarifies the site policies!

    Here is a direct quote from Forum Rules: PLEASE READ! which she left out: "It should also go without saying that swearing at other users is not permitted."
    Do you believe Nobugsonme handled the situation appropriately?

    It is my impression and opinion that I believe that if you have an issue with how Nobugs handled the situation, then you should address it with her, as this is pretty much her site. However, it appears that you have an issue with the forum rule that swearing AT other users is not permitted. . . . Therefore, it is my impression and opinion that I guess Nobugs will need to decide if "eff" is a swearword . . . which she stated above that she views it as "hinting at swearing [and] is really not a problem."

    Raising Cain -  » 
    (4) I stated that there is no reason for anyone to prefer DE over CimeXa in the fight against bed bugs. CimeXa is far more effective and more reliably safe than DE and it only costs $11 to treat an entire apartment. Do you agree?

    It is my impression and opinion . . . and I, myself, have used neither DE nor CimeXa (nor have I done the research you have apparently done). . . and, therefore, have not formed an opinion, for myself, regarding one over the other.

    However, with that being said, I communicate almost daily with a very knowledgeable pest professional (so I let them do my research for me regarding what product to use) . . . and he has advised me that CimeXa is a very good product. Therefore, personally if I had to choose one or the other, I would probably go with CimeXa (subject to availability). However . . . I don't plan to ever go the DIY route (knock on wood) because I would be a basket case!

    Raising Cain -  » 
    (5) If you agree, do you think Nobugsonme should update the DE FAQ to include Cimexa (citing the DE and Cimexa studies both of which were conducted in roughly the past year) and possibly other dessicant dusts like Drione?

    It is my impression and opinion that . . . once again, this is Nobugs site and I personally believe she strives to give the best information available.

    Again, please keep in mind, Raising Cain, that the above are my impressions and opinions . . . and I am entitled to them. . . . but thank you for asking me for them.

  38. theyareoutthere

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Wed Oct 15 2014 14:13:35
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    I thought BD was joking, and I joked about the forum rules because it seemed "off the cuff" and not AT you. I was trying to point out that my gut instinct was BD was being funny, since....he is always being funny? Unlike a certain professional on this site who tries to be funny, but is about 50% of the time. Since my personal ratio is even lower, my comment is pot calling kettle....

    Abs puts up with all sort of disses from me (that are tongue in cheek), but she has talked to a lot of the experts on this site through her very hard work on the calendar of experts last year.

    I'm not an expert but the word "gnawing" doesn't appear to be accurate. It may also connotate an action that would frighten several people vs. bite. The skin reaction to a bite is what we see vs. the bite mark. So, many people are non-reactors. I'm saying this because people are always asking for confirmation of bed bug bites on their skin.

    People will tease you on this site and they will point out inaccuracies like in Chicagobbordrocks and in your post.

    Good luck. I thought you might be an expert lurking, but that appears to be cleared up.

  39. theyareoutthere

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Wed Oct 15 2014 14:15:24
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    I'm too busy to correct my not at all well written post above, but had to come on and support my girrlllllllllll....

    Big Dummy.

  40. AbsolutelyFreaking

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    Wed Oct 15 2014 14:26:00
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    theyareoutthere -  » 
    . . . . but had to come on and support my girrlllllllllll.... Big Dummy.

    LOL! (And I'm sure s/he appreciates it!) hahaha!

  41. theyareoutthere

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    Wed Oct 15 2014 14:30:22
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    BD better appreciate it or else I'll rant. Oh heck, I'll rant anyway....

  42. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Wed Oct 15 2014 15:12:48
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    Just for clarity--

    As others suggested, "swearing" and "swearing at someone" are not the same thing.

    "You say tomato and I say eff you," is not the same as "f--- you, Raising Cain." Far from it.
    (Note, Raising Cain, since you raised questions, I am using demonstrating what would be off limits here, as opposed to actually insulting you.)

    Keep in mind, Big Dummy is paraphrasing a song, and the implied "you" is not a single individual. In the context of the exchange above, it could even be read in such a way that Big Dummy is the one who said "tomato" and your response to same was an "eff you".

    And obviously, I was joking when I said Big Dummy could do no wrong. I am sure it's possible Big Dummy could violate the forum rules and I would act accordingly.

    However, I do have a bit more patience for people that support others, are funny and helpful, and don't register on websites solely to stir the pot. If you haven't noticed, this is the first time I have addressed you directly and I have found your comments about myself and others to be rude in the past. Keep in mind also that the rule to treat others in a civil manner kind of precludes having a username that jibes at another member.

    I see your suggestions for revisions on the DE FAQ. Will look at that soon.

  43. KillerQueen

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Wed Oct 15 2014 15:25:00
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    I've been here I guess about 6 years now and you know what? This thread got me thinking.

    I'm convinced that this bug drives everyone crazy - Pro's included.

    Makes me wonder if we're winning the race/war or is the bug having a better time than us?

    We're all MADDD!!

  44. theyareoutthere

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Wed Oct 15 2014 16:13:44
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    I forgot about the song. I wonder what % of BD's jokes....ARE OVER MY HEAD????

    (dramatic music as I look off into the distance frowning....as would.... the great actor William Shatner)...

  45. buggyinsyracuse

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Wed Oct 15 2014 16:56:49
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    KQ - you comment reminds me of the movie 28 Days Later, where you soon realize that it's the humans you have to be more afraid of than the zombies.

  46. Raising Cain

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Mon Oct 20 2014 3:31:00
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    Strawbale wrote: I can't see how this isn't an important enough health threat (especially in certain areas) to warrant a lot of research grants. You've all heard of 'stupid' grants - such as these. It's just hard to believe these wretched creatures, this scourge, hasn't prompted anyone to spend some serious money.

    Yeap. A bill has been languishing in some House subcommittee for 3.5 years. Austerity..austerity...austerity. This may literally come back to bite all of them. Check it out:
    http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d112:HR00967:@@@L&summ2=m&


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