Got Bed Bugs? Bedbugger Forums » Bed Bug Treatment

What is the gold standard in treatment?

(20 posts)
  1. idealist

    newbite
    Joined: Apr '17
    Posts: 11

    offline

    Posted 1 week ago
    Mon Apr 17 2017 12:34:37
    #



    Login to Send PM

    What should the ideal (best) PCO be doing? What chemicals are best?

    We had a super mild infestation but we've had 2 treatments and are still getting bites. I don't trust my PCO but I don't know what they are supposed to be doing.

  2. Richard56

    oldtimer
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 2,090

    offline

    Posted 1 week ago
    Mon Apr 17 2017 13:03:12
    #



    Login to Send PM

    I've heard the "gold standard" is Vikane gas, but my understanding is that is significantly more expensive than other types of treatments and is limited to free standing structures unless you are just using it to decontaminate belongings in a special chamber as an adjunct to other treatments. Beyond that, the gold standard is really finding the right PCO as all of the methods are only as good as the person who applies them.

    Richard

  3. mp7ski

    junior member
    Joined: Dec '16
    Posts: 322

    offline

    Posted 1 week ago
    Mon Apr 17 2017 13:05:44
    #



    Login to Send PM

    Ideal, well really they would vikane your house or apartment complex for 2 days at 10x, then heat treat it at 130-150°F for 10+ hours, then spend 8+ hours thoroughly steaming and then spraying it with the most effective chemicals with dusts as well, and then have a few follow up visits of steaming and spraying 2 weeks apart. That would be pretty ideal to me... but that will never happen.

    Realistically, at the least, you should expect them to spend at least a couple hours thoroughly spraying your apartment with chemicals and dusts with at least one follow up visit doing the same.

    Realistically ideal would be to use a high quality dry vapor steamer first on all furniture and cracks and crevices, then thoroughly spraying using different chemicals on all baseboards, cracks and crevices, the bed frame, and box spring and mattress(with chemicals labeled for each purpose). Then applying a dust to all outlets.

    Commonly used chemicals that are effective but have also had some resistant built up to in certain bed bugs include Temprid SC, Transport GHP, and Phantom. With Crossfire being a newer chemical that a few pcos have started using. There are a few older chemicals such as Suspend and such but they are becoming less effective as with most chemicals.

    Bottom line, The use of steam, up to date effective chemicals, and dusts would be ideal from a basic treatment with at least 2 or 3 treatments.

    I am not an expert, any advice I give should be considered as amateur advice and not taken as fact. I mean well with all my posts and try to give back. If you plan on using any of my advice, I suggest doing research into said advice to make sure it is in your best interest.
    Study on Thermal Death Points(pages 18-29 of pdf) : http://www.propanecouncil.org/uploadedFiles/Council/Research_and_Development/REP_12221%20Efficacy%20of%20Heat%20on%20Bed%20Bugs.pdf
    Study on Cimexa: http://www.pctonline.com/article/pct0814-silica-gel-research-bed-bugs/
  4. Richard56

    oldtimer
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 2,090

    offline

    Posted 1 week ago
    Mon Apr 17 2017 13:15:17
    #



    Login to Send PM

    Inspect, vacuum, steam, spray, dust, encase, isolate, set up monitors, repeat when indicated. Treat selective belongings separately if indicated. And again, it's important you use the right person, or if you are going to DIY do a ton of research.

  5. mp7ski

    junior member
    Joined: Dec '16
    Posts: 322

    offline

    Posted 1 week ago
    Mon Apr 17 2017 13:20:34
    #



    Login to Send PM

    Richard56 - 4 minutes ago  » 
    Inspect, vacuum, steam, spray, dust, encase, isolate, set up monitors, repeat when indicated. Treat selective belongings separately if indicated. And again, it's important you use the right person, or if you are going to DIY do a ton of research.

    Short, sweet and right to the point. Agreed.

  6. bugged-cdn

    member
    Joined: Jul '14
    Posts: 339

    offline

    Posted 1 week ago
    Mon Apr 17 2017 14:43:42
    #



    Login to Send PM

    Realistically, at the least, you should expect them to spend at least a couple hours thoroughly spraying your apartment with chemicals and dusts with at least one follow up visit doing the same.

    Agreed. Unfortunately that is often not close to what happens. I've timed a PCO who "treated" my 3-bedroom apartment in under 15 minutes. On leaving when asked if a repeat treatment was being scheduled, I got a shrug and "I dunno". This was a guy sent by a company with a huge, international presence in pest management. I guess that's more of a rant than useful advice, sorry, LOL. Anyway, I've wondered if these types of half-assed treatments could be increasing the bed bugs' resistance to some chemicals ?

  7. idealist

    newbite
    Joined: Apr '17
    Posts: 11

    offline

    Posted 1 week ago
    Mon Apr 17 2017 22:33:04
    #



    Login to Send PM

    Richard56 - 9 hours ago  » 
    Inspect, vacuum, steam, spray, dust, encase, isolate, set up monitors, repeat when indicated. Treat selective belongings separately if indicated. And again, it's important you use the right person, or if you are going to DIY do a ton of research.

    Our PCO says that steam is not effective b/c it doesn't get into as many of the cracks and crevices as liquid. He says the bugs are coming from the walls but we have climbups.

    We are super vigilant about not having clothes in the bedroom (except a few baby clothes). We wash and dry our sheets, comforters and pillows almost daily.

    It's clear that the bugs are still in the bed frames and in our baby's crib. Because of that, it makes sense (to me) that the PCO would use steam in addition to the liquid. Any way I can make them do this?

    Also, what are the best monitors to use. I've looked a a bunch but I don't know what to get. I thought I shouldn't get a monitor while I'm also doing a treatment?

  8. Richard56

    oldtimer
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 2,090

    offline

    Posted 1 week ago
    Mon Apr 17 2017 23:00:25
    #



    Login to Send PM

    Sounds like your PCO is either lazy, misinformed or didn't communicate very well.

    Steam by itself is usually not considered a complete treatment although at least two professionals here have used it as their sole treatment, and I have no doubt that with the right expertise and requiste time, it could work as a complete treatment.

    But more frequently steam is used as one very useful part of an integrative approach to bed bug elimination, the other components which I listed in my previous post. Therefore to say steam "is not effective" is incorrect.

    We have lots of info on monitors both here on ongoing threads as well as in the FAQ's. There is the passive (commerical and home made), the interceptor types, and now an interesting study by Richard Naylor is seeing very good results with certain glue boards.

    Richard

  9. mp7ski

    junior member
    Joined: Dec '16
    Posts: 322

    offline

    Posted 1 week ago
    Tue Apr 18 2017 7:14:23
    #



    Login to Send PM

    bugged-cdn - 16 hours ago  » 

    Realistically, at the least, you should expect them to spend at least a couple hours thoroughly spraying your apartment with chemicals and dusts with at least one follow up visit doing the same.

    Agreed. Unfortunately that is often not close to what happens. I've timed a PCO who "treated" my 3-bedroom apartment in under 15 minutes. On leaving when asked if a repeat treatment was being scheduled, I got a shrug and "I dunno". This was a guy sent by a company with a huge, international presence in pest management. I guess that's more of a rant than useful advice, sorry, LOL. Anyway, I've wondered if these types of half-assed treatments could be increasing the bed bugs' resistance to some chemicals ?

    Sounds awfully familiar, wonder if it's the same company. There's no doubt in my mind they contribute to chemical resistance. Their half assed treatments undoubtedly leave plenty of survivors to reproduce and create generations of bugs that are now more resistant to the chemicals that were used. If every bug that was treated with chemicals died, resistance wouldn't exist, at least from the point of resistance from being in contact with chemicals. I also believe the use of chemicals that aren't as effective as others but are in the same pesticide class, also contributes as well as sticking to just one pesticide each visit instead of alternating pesticides, especially pesticide classes. Now, in certain parts of the country such as Ohio and michigan (and world), chemical resistance is so bad that even the most thorough and experienced pcos have trouble eliminating infestations using chemicals even using an ipm approach. It's scary, I'm scared, I have planned on moving out of an active infestation for a while now, and I finally found a place and put down a deposit and am now having serious doubts... reading about everyone who has moved and taken them with them just kills me. I can't afford this not to work, I just cant... period, or I very well might have to live with them forever...

  10. bugged-cdn

    member
    Joined: Jul '14
    Posts: 339

    offline

    Posted 6 days ago
    Wed Apr 19 2017 17:35:25
    #



    Login to Send PM

    We're now 4 months post-move, mp7ski, and no signs and no bites (I react rather dramatically to BB bites). So it can be done. Crossing my fingers for you!

  11. mp7ski

    junior member
    Joined: Dec '16
    Posts: 322

    offline

    Posted 6 days ago
    Wed Apr 19 2017 18:08:25
    #



    Login to Send PM

    bugged-cdn - 27 minutes ago  » 
    We're now 4 months post-move, mp7ski, and no signs and no bites (I react rather dramatically to BB bites). So it can be done. Crossing my fingers for you!

    I appreciate it, the new place actually just fell through so I'm back to square one. Not sure what to do next. I'm scared of any decision I make. The difference between our situations is quite a bit. I'm getting bit almost every night even with isolation, that's how bad it's been here. And with two little girls, the logistics of even attempting a move while losing everything, spending a ton of money, and doing it right just seems impossible. I'm lost, and scared... I just wish I knew what to do for my family.

  12. mp7ski

    junior member
    Joined: Dec '16
    Posts: 322

    offline

    Posted 6 days ago
    Wed Apr 19 2017 18:24:17
    #



    Login to Send PM

    Just curious, what'd you guys do as far as cell phones and important paperwork? Didn't even take dishes?

  13. bugged-cdn

    member
    Joined: Jul '14
    Posts: 339

    offline

    Posted 6 days ago
    Wed Apr 19 2017 19:08:02
    #



    Login to Send PM

    It is true that our situations aren't​ exactly alike.

    Electronics were treated with Nuvan prostrips. For our cell phones, I did what one of the pros suggested which is put them in a Ziploc, hold it in your hands for a while (heat), crack the bag open and exhale into it (CO2), close up the bag and observe. Nothing.

    We didn't take dishes or pots and pans, etc.

    Important papers, photographs and a few other items of sentimental value are in storage.

    No kids but 2 cats. That's what stressed me out the most because there was only so much we could do to make sure they were "clean".

  14. barelyliving

    senior member
    Joined: Jul '08
    Posts: 403

    offline

    Posted 6 days ago
    Wed Apr 19 2017 19:41:43
    #



    Login to Send PM

    I've been thinking about this question and thinking that if someone was DIYing it maybe the gold standard would include somehow bagging up bedframes and couches with Nuvan strips in order to make sure they were clean at some point so you could booby trap any paths to yourself with Cimexa or the like. Not sure...

  15. justwantthemgone

    newbite
    Joined: Nov '16
    Posts: 48

    offline

    Posted 5 days ago
    Thu Apr 20 2017 11:34:57
    #



    Login to Send PM

    Richard56 - 2 days ago  » 
    Inspect, vacuum, steam, spray, dust, encase, isolate, set up monitors, repeat when indicated. Treat selective belongings separately if indicated. And again, it's important you use the right person, or if you are going to DIY do a ton of research.

    This is reassuring as this is similar to what my pco did.

  16. bugged-cdn

    member
    Joined: Jul '14
    Posts: 339

    offline

    Posted 5 days ago
    Thu Apr 20 2017 14:25:17
    #



    Login to Send PM

    "so you could booby trap any paths to yourself with Cimexa"

    IMHO this tactic works well on paper but is extremely difficult to implement. So many ways a bed bug could end up on the bed (hitching a ride on clothes, magazines or electronics, or pets, dropping from the ceiling, blankets accidentally touching the floor, wall, or furniture).

  17. MS-guy

    newbite
    Joined: Sep '14
    Posts: 41

    offline

    Posted 4 days ago
    Fri Apr 21 2017 16:33:30
    #



    Login to Send PM

    Cirkil. Only biopesticide available and it works better than any other spray. Only downside is that it takes 4-5 weeks for the smell to completely go away - but, in my mind, its worth it.

    There are other neem oil concentrates out there- but Cirkil is the best in my mind.

    I have NO connection to the company but I recommended it to a friend who went through this torture and it worked wonderfully. I myself had used propoxur - which is hard to find and much more expensive. Also, propoxur is not a safe biopesticide like Cirkil. I did use Cirkil around my house once I discovered it to make sure the propoxur got them all. I still use it occasionally (and its a good garden spray for many outside pests, too).

    Also, Cirkil can be used in a "rag in a bag" protocol to treat books, electronics, clutter, etc. I use it for my bags after I return from trips. Put suitcases in a plastic bag with a rag soaked with Cirkil - seal it up- and five days later I know contents are safe to bring into house from garage.

  18. bugged-cdn

    member
    Joined: Jul '14
    Posts: 339

    offline

    Posted 2 days ago
    Sun Apr 23 2017 5:41:36
    #



    Login to Send PM

    Also, propoxur is not a safe biopesticide like Cirkil.

    That's putting it mildly.

  19. Richard56

    oldtimer
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 2,090

    offline

    Posted 2 days ago
    Sun Apr 23 2017 15:04:18
    #



    Login to Send PM

    Other than the smell, Cirkil seems like a perfect DIY treatment due to it's very flexible label which allows direct spraying on most surfaces, including mattresses, in addition the usual cracks and crevices.

    The only objection I've noticed from pro's here in past threads is the smell, and I get the distinct impression that is what it has not caught on with the PCO community. I doubt if I would put up with that smell on a daily basis either, as a pro would have to do if it became their go-to bed bug product.

    That said, for the individual homeowner, putting up with the odor for 4-5 weeks, on perhaps a once in a lifetime event, should be at least considered, again due to the combination of it's efficacy and very broad label which should make application for the DIYer much easier, and safer, than with other pesticide based approaches. I could therefore see spraying and then vacating/vacationing while the spray odor subsides, unless it's important for a human lure to remain in place. Maybe a pro can comment on that aspect.

    I also think Cirkil's "rag in the bag" concept could be extended to DIY "kill chambers much in the same way that some here have proposed for heat. The difference being the safety factor as heat DIY heat chambers are fraught with danger for the DIYer while a Cirkil kill chamber would not have those same risks.

    That said, haven't heard as many efficacy studies or even as many anecdotal stories as I would like -- other than it "stinks" -- but again, I think that may be due in part because of the resistance of the PCO community has to the product for understandable reasons which again may be of less concern to a DIY homeowner.

    Richard

  20. bed-bugscouk

    oldtimer
    Joined: Apr '07
    Posts: 14,497

    offline

    Posted 1 day ago
    Mon Apr 24 2017 6:39:18
    #



    Login to Send PM

    Hi,

    There is no universal "gold standard", there is not enough joined up thinking that way. Plus the reality is that if everyone did the same it would fail super fast as bed bugs adapt. The best acknowledged standards are:

    • Australian code of best practice
    • EU code of best practice

    My personal approach is:

    • Investigate
    • Super-heated steam
    • DE (tested and graded source)
    • Passive+ Monitor
    • Educate my clients

    The problem comes with the fact that the first item on that list is the most critical as it dictates the format of what follows. As case may be 30 minutes to treat or it may be 3 days but those as the elements we use.

    Hope that helps.

    David Cain
    Bed Bugs Limited

    If you have found this information helpful please consider leaving feedback on social media via google+ or FaceBook or by like/loving the images.

    In accordance with the AUP and FTC (legal requirements) I openly disclose my vested interest in Passive Monitors as the inventor and patent holder. Since 2009 they have become an integral part in how we resolve bed bug infestations. I also have a professional relationship with PackTite in that they distribute my product under their own branding. I do not however receive any financial remuneration for any comments I make about products.

RSS feed for this topic


Reply

You must log in to post.

253,386 posts in 40,546 topics over 123 months by 17,741 of 18,101 members. Latest: hopeful77, omgwhut, jadew077