Got Bed Bugs? Bedbugger Forums » Bed Bug Treatment
What if BedBugs become Resistant to treatment?
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Buggy for 2 years
newbite
Joined: Apr '09
Posts: 5
Posted 7 months ago
Thu Apr 23 2009 22:59:13
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I got bbugs for the first time in the spring of 2007. I dealt with a landlord who didn't believe I had bbugs, a subsequent move, and many treatments and several recurrences over the course of about 6 or 7 months. Finally, I thought I had vanquished these suckers. I cleaned and kept all my clothes in those XXL ziplock bags for two 2-week cycles, and kept them in for a little longer, just for good measure. I threw away ALMOST all things that were not washable, and dry cleaned everything else. It was nothing I hadn't done before, but I felt so secure that I even bought a new bed that did not need an encasement around it (I had used 3 or 4 cheap vinyl bed bags, which worked well but was annoying to sleep on. I will no longer EVER purchase a mattress without putting an encasement on it. How sad is that?). So, I had been free for almost 4 months. Then, they came back last year about this time (when I was studying for the bar exam).
In that time, I have tossed 3 mattresses, all my furniture twice, boiled, steamed, dried on high heat, dry cleaned, used ammonia, bleach, and feel like I've done pretty much everything people suggest to my clothes. I'm on my third recurrence in my most recent apartment. I've already thrown away the couch when I found a bbug on it, and replaced it with a futon (with a cushion in an encasement).
Finally, the PCO in my new home used a fogger the first time they sprayed here (I hadn't read the post on not to use it). Although it is a national and reputable company who purports to know a lot about bbugs, even the "expert" in their local office seems to know less about bbugs than I do. I don't think that's abnormal, since I moved from NY, where they are prevalent, to a city with far fewer occurrences, but FRUSTRATING! Everything on this site says "check with your PCO" but that's difficult when there are no reliable PCOs to check with!
Now I'm afraid the bbugs are no resistant to all the chemicals, and I'm ready to call in the EPA and get an exception from the ban on DDT. My PCO promises they're going to use a "newer, stronger chemical." I'm doubtful. Any thoughts on resistant bedbugs?
On a more personal note, I'm really starting to lose heart, and wonder, what's the point in living that crazy spartan life of giant ziplock bags, no clothes hanging in the closet (especially difficult for a lawyer), and constant laundering for a month or two if the bugs will just come back after 4 or 5 months?
TWO YEARS IS A ***LONG*** TIME TO DEAL WITH BBUGS. I would not wish this on even my worst enemy.
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I have a few questions which may help others weighing in:
How long have you been in current home?
Is there any chance neighboring units are infested?
What is the PCO using? (Specific chemicals, dusts, etc. which should be provided you in a list.)
Where (roughly) are you?The short answer is that PCOs who mix multiple methods should be able to kill bed bugs even if they're pyrethroid-resistant. Steam/thermal are additional possibilities. (Steam can be used before pesticides and dusts.)
But with such a heavy and longstanding infestation -- and you having moved them several times? Maybe they were in the furniture and other stuff you brought (how long were they gone?), or maybe you were re-exposed to the same source you got them from originally?
Infested neighbors (undetected or untreated) are a big problem and can cause things to stretch on like this too.
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OMG... two years is a long time to be living with bed bugs... You have my profound sympathy for dealing with an intractable infestation for so long.
Don't waste your time seeking DDT... studies have shown widespread resistance to DDT in wild populations from samples collected from different sites around the country. DDT simply won't work like it did in the 1940s... all of the survivors from that period produced DDT resistant mutant offspring.
The key is to find someone with the proper expertise... there are legal products like Vikane gas or thermal treatments that can kill all stages of bed bugs & their eggs successfully in a single treatment.
A competent PCO should be able to eliminate bed bugs from your home with the products that are available currently on the market.
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parakeets
oldtimer
Joined: Mar '07
Posts: 866
Posted 7 months ago
Fri Apr 24 2009 18:17:01
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I sympathize since I have had bedbugs for more than 2 years as well. People blame ME, as if "How could you have had bedbugs for 2 years? Something is terribly wrong!" Well, something is. I cannot self-treat and my landlord is hiring a cheap PCO who never gets the bedbug population in my building totally to 0, so the bedbugs rise again just when I think I'm free.
I dare not move since I still can only afford an apartment and I don't trust multi-unit buildings anymore. (nor do I want to spread bedbugs). A building is only as safe as the most careless tenant. We have a tenant in my building who dumpster dives! In a neighborhood that has bedbugs? I saw him coming into the building with high-risk stuff on trash day (new suitcases and gym bags that people had thrown out, bedding and quilts, etc.) that he obviously got dumpster diving. I gulped "Don't do that, what about bedbugs?" He told me "Oh this stuff doesn't have bedbugs."
There is no disclosure, education or or mandated bedbug-prevention behavior in my building. Even if there were, I doubt there would be a way of enforcing everyone to follow it. I've told people here--we once had a fire in the building, smoke in the halls and smoke detectors blaring, and yet there were tenants who refused to leave. If tenants won't leave a burning building, how can we possibly convince them to cooperate against bedbugs?
I'm glad to find someone else who has had bedbugs for a long time. I get more and more afraid that this is what the future is--living with bedbugs. The more people who get bedbugs, the more bedbugs develop a resistance to pestcides (and they will), and the more the victim is blamed, the less likely we will win over bedbugs. Heat is a great tool, as are a lot of the IPM methods, but unless you bring the bedbug population to ZERO and make sure no one introduces them again--and that isn't going to happen--you will ALWAYS have bedbugs. They will never go away.
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lynnee82
junior member
Joined: Oct '08
Posts: 66
Posted 7 months ago
Sat Apr 25 2009 9:02:34
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So very sorry about your long ordeal. Do you live in a single famly dwelling or apt? We are currently talking with a company out of New York that goes all over the US (we live in the south) and does Vikane treatment to homes and cars. Their treatment is guaranteed for one year. PM me for their name if interested. Again so sorry you have had to suffer so long.
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buggyinsocal
oldtimer
Joined: Jun '08
Posts: 1,130
Posted 7 months ago
Sat Apr 25 2009 13:10:30
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Lynnee82
Vikane cannot be done on a single unit in a multi-unit building. The problem is that if you live in an apartment and your landlord won't pay for good treatment, it can be very difficult to get rid of the bugs. Parakeets lives in a multi-unit building, so unless she wants to pay out of pocket to treat the whole building, since her landlord isn't willing to hire a decent PCO for conventional chemical treatment, Vikane isn't really an option for her since it tends to be even more expensive than chemical treatment.
Thermal would be an option for a single unit; however, if there are bugs elsewhere in the building, which there probably are, thermal wouldn't eliminate the bugs from those units, which means that Parakeets could easily end up reinfested from those sources. So while thermal worked wonders for me, it did so because I was the only infested unit and my neighbors were more than willing to cooperate and all volunteered to allow inspections of their units.
Vikane can be useful to apartment dwellers in term of using it to fumigate belongings when moving from one apartment to another (and many people have had good results with that process), but sometimes people can't move from a multi-unit building for a variety of reasons. And like everything else, Vikane can fail. It's rarer with Vikane than many other treatments, but it can happen.
I think, unfortunately, Parakeets is right. Conventional wisdom tells us that all too often there are a small number of landlords who will take the cheap way out and do the least amount of anything required by law. It sounds like her landlord is complying with the letter of the law but not really attacking the issue in order to solve the problem. Given that that's always going to be the case with a small percentage of landlords, multi-unit buildings are extra vulnerable to long term infestations. And the fact that at least one person in her building continues to dumpster dive also complicates matters.
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Buggy for 2 years
newbite
Joined: Apr '09
Posts: 5
Posted 6 months ago
Sun Apr 26 2009 10:56:57
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I'm sorry this is such a long post, but I am weighing back in after a few posts.
First, It is so good to have people share on this post. Both to hear that there are other long-time sufferers who can sympathize, and to hear some new methods. I'm sorry to hear that you're also struggling, Parakeets. My problem is that people try to convince me that I'm paranoid -- when I'm getting bitten and cannot produce a specimen, exterminators and family alike try to convince me that it's just mosquitos. I'm hoping to be able to eliminate these buggers once and for all. But I do also fear that this is going to become just a part of my life -- this starts to feel like a chronic disease sometimes!
Here, in a somewhat organized fashion, are my answers to the questions posed, along with some more information that may or may not be helpful in providing advice (but gives me a little more peace of mind to air them in an anonymous forum):
1. How long have I been here? I have been in my current home for 6 months. It was about 3 months before the bbugs resurfaced, and then after the first treatment, another month or so before another recurrence.
2. Have the neighboring "units" had bbugs? I know for a fact that my neighbors have not had bedbugs. I don't live in a big multi-unit building, but I guess you would call it a duplex (It's like a one-floor house with mirror-image apartments on either side). Whether the bbugs have drifted over to their side of our duplex is another (worrying!) question. They're aware that I've had them, and have had treatment several times. They have not told me that they have had any symptoms. I wouldn't want to cause them any trouble, so if Vikane treatment would cause the bugs to drift over, I might consider paying for treatment of their side too . . . (The landlord is not legally required to pay, and has vehemently opposed paying for any of the treatment. To be fair, I'm pretty certain that I brought the problem with me, but it still feels unfair that I've had to shoulder the payment for all the treatment!)
3. What is the PCO using? I know they have tried different things, but I'm not sure what exactly they've been using. The first time they sprayed, back in the beginning of the year, they used three treatments, a fogger with some sort of fungicide or something(?), some dessicant for the baseboards (I think, but there was no powdery residue like there always was with the stuff they used in NY) and Sterifab. Don't even get me started about Sterifab. (see my comments below). After the fist spray, the fogger left such strong odor, I couldn't re-enter my apartment for a couple of days (I slept on the couch at my neighbor's house in newly-laundered clothing). Because of the strength of that treatment, I didn't seek to have them spray 2 weeks later, like I always had been told to do in New York. They also told me it wasn't necessary. But, when a bug fell on me from my closet (traumatic!), I called the PCO again. They were shocked, and this time tried adding steam treatment. Still, I got another recurrence in a few weeks (maybe a month? With how often this has happened to me, I lose track of the time lag sometimes). Otherwise, with every treatment, they keep saying they're trying something stronger. They have fogged every time but the most recent (the most recent time, they used this foam on the baseboards, and in the sockets, but I think that was it).
4. Where, approximately, am I living? I'm living in a city in the south.
5. Did I bring furniture with me? No. I threw all my furniture out when I moved from New York. The previous tenants had not had bedbugs. They left a few pieces of furniture, which I wasn't worried about, and helped reduce the cost of moving. Otherwise, I have bought all the furniture in my current apartment new. I recently threw out the couch because I was certain it was infested. Other than the newly encased futon and the encased mattress and boxsprings in my bedroom, there is no soft furniture in my house.
6. How long were the bbugs gone before the recurrence? See my answer to question 3. The longest they were gone was about 4 months (when I thought they were gone for good). In fact, I always associate them with these little flies that look like fruit flies, but that are not. They had literally appeared before every single re-emergence of the bbugs in NY. They started to appear soon after I unpacked my things from New York (I packed everything in the big Ziplock bags and re-laundered everything when I got here). I guess, like the bbugs, they hitch-hiked down here with my things from NY. The little bugs gave me a bad feeling, and what do you know, a few months later the bbug bites showed up again. I know bbugs can't fly. And everyone I've told this to thinks I'm crazy. But there has GOT to be a connection here. (After the first fogging of my apartment, though, even when the bbugs come back, the little flies have not).
On Sterifab: It is the most useless product on the market. Its active ingredient is ammonia, and I have literally sprayed it on a bbug in close proximity and it took more than one spray to kill it on contact.
A question: I am about to order the Packtite as another way to clear my things of bbugs. I have seen lots of rave reviews on this website, so I figure it's money well spent. I have considered convincing my PCO to get the CDC3000 (or Nightwatch) or even buying it myself (on my first inquiry, the PCO was not going to buy either). I figure it would be helpful in knowing whether the treatment has gotten rid of them for good, or not. Any thoughts on the usefulness of this? The cheaper detection monitors (climbup etc) seem kind of useless to me because I KNOW I have bedbugs now, and I figure the stragglers are probably not going to be on my bed, but maybe in the kitchen or bathroom or who knows! I want to make sure all stragglers are DEAD!
Please, if you have any more advice, I would appreciate it. I may seek the Vikane gas treatment, but as I said before, I have to pay for all the treatment, so it will depend on how expensive it is. -
buggyinsocal
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Joined: Jun '08
Posts: 1,130
Posted 6 months ago
Sun Apr 26 2009 11:19:11
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Vikane, like thermal, does require some prep work. Everything actually has to be taken out of plastic (bins, bags, etc.) because Vikane doesn't penetrate plastic. And you would need to be out of the house at least overnight during treatment which would mean putting yourself and your neighbors up at a hotel if the landlord isn't paying for treatment. (Out here in the southwest, Vikane is most often used to treat termites. Vikane can also be used to treat bed bugs at a higher concentration, so if you go the Vikane route make sure that you're getting a provider who understands that they need to use 3x the concentration usually used for termites.)
Unlike thermal, Vikane can only be done on the whole structure, not just on your unit in the duplex. As a result, your neighbor would also have to undergo Vikane treatment since you don't live in a single family home. That's one of the downsides to Vikane, that and it tends to be slightly more expensive upfront than some other treatments.
Also, from your description above, I would want to rule out one other possibility before spending money on one of the more expensive upfront treatments:
1. Reinfestation sources. If you were clear of bed bugs for 3 months, it's unlikely that you had a population in your home that slowed their metabolisms down for that long when there was food around. (I'm not saying it's impossible, just that it's unlikely). If you were clear for three months and then the bugs came back, if I were you, I would want to rule out the chance that you're being exposed to them at work or at the homes of friends and family to make sure that when you get rid of them this time, you don't reintroduce them again.
That said, if you can find a PCO who'll do Vikane properly for bed bugs and/or a good thermal provider, many people here (including myself with thermal) have had good results with those treatments. A number of people here have had Vikane failures, so it's not foolproof, and another small subset of people here had less than satisfying experiences with thermal (damage to items in the house, multiple treatments required), but overall, those two treatments seem to have a faster effect on getting rid of all the bugs if done properly than chemical treatment. The trick, of course, will be finding good PCOs in your area who are experienced with either and being able to afford either. (I live in southern California which has a massive drywood termite problem, so PCOs out here have more experience than normal with thermal because it's used as an alternative to Vikane for termites. As a result, it was very easy for me to find a PCO with a lot of experience in both. I do realize that not everyone's in that position.)
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ReluctantSurvivor
newbite
Joined: Feb '09
Posts: 3
Posted 6 months ago
Tue Apr 28 2009 21:19:37
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Hi Buggy for 2 years,
I don't post on this forum very much, but I popped online for the first time in weeks on a whim and saw your story and related to it all too well. I had bed bugs for a full year before I found someone who could solve the problem. I went through terrible roommate issues, throwing out all my furniture and many, many belongings before a moving to a new place ... and STILL managing to bring some with me (yuck). I also fell into the trap of ineffectively using products which are, themselves, of dubious effectiveness and spending hundreds and thousands of dollars on exterminators who were never quite successful, dry cleaning, plastic bags, mattress encasements, etc, etc ... and days upon days of laundering and preparing my apartment for exterminations. And many sleepless nights.
What finally made a difference is a PCO who posts on this site: Killer Queen, who is hands down the most knowledgeable, professional, thorough PCO I've come across. His expertise in every possible area - from knowledge of the pest itself, its habits and biology, knowledge of which pesticides bed bugs have shown resistance too in recent studies, practical knowledge about what products to use, how to use them effectively and safely, structural knowledge of apartments, homes and buildings and all the potential harborages, etc, etc - is beyond impressive. And he was willing to spend as much time as was necessary to deal with the problem. He solved the problem that plagued me for a year, and for that I am incredibly grateful.
Since you said you lived in a city in the south, and not in NYC, I can't give you my first choice recommendation: call killer queen. But I can tell you some of what I learned from him (and hope that he'll jump in and add some of the many, many details I'm missing). Here's some things you may want to either request from your PCO or find a PCO that's willing to do:
-Inject some kind of dessicant dust (DE, drione, etc) into the walls (i.e. under the baseboards and also behind the light switch and outlet plates) with a duster. Once this is done, you'll want to eventually seal the baseboards, etc with caulk.
-Use Phantom on cracks and crevices. This is only one thing that Killer Queen uses, but this pesticide's claim to fame is that insects can't detect it. The problems with many pesticides commonly used are that 1) Bed bugs are becoming resistant to many chemicals (like deltamethrin) and 2) once applied, many residuals are repellant to bed bugs, so after application the bugs just chill out in the walls until it wears off. NOTE: If your PCO uses this, make sure they're not mixing in a flushing agent. While there is a logic to flushing agents that many believe in, Killer Queen very astutely pointed out that if you use flushing agents, you don't know which way the bug will run. Will they indeed be "flushed out" of the wall, or will they run deeper into the wall and hide? Plus, the practice of mixing flushing agents with phantom nullifies the idea of phantom in the first place, which is suppose to be undetectable. NOTE #2: If you have books on your bookshelves and you're worried there might be bedbugs in them, then this is another area you may want your PCO to spray Phantom. Once it dries, it's undetectable and the bugs will eventually leave the books, walk over it and die.
-steam cleaning. No revelation here, but it works (especially if your PCO moves slowly enough and is thorough enough). Bed bugs may be becoming resistant to pesticides, but they're not resistant to being burned alive (and it kills their eggs, too).
That's just scratching the surface. But that's some of what I learned from Killer Queen (and I think he's posted about all of that at different points on this site, too if you look around). I bring it up because he's very up to date with info on pesticide resistance and he's the only one who's been able to put an end to my bed bug problem (thanks again, John!)
And again, that's stuff to request/run by a professional. Wouldn't recommend doing it yourself. (Although I think you actually can get phantom as a resident outside of new york and maybe california ... you lucky dogs!!!!)
Hope that helps! GOOD LUCK!
-RS -
gopherguts
newbite
Joined: Apr '09
Posts: 2
Posted 6 months ago
Tue Apr 28 2009 23:26:25
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I am so happy I came across this site. Not that I'm happy others are suffering too but its nice to not be alone. I've had bedbugs for almost a year now. I've been through the same old thing as everyone else meaning I've being insane with protecting myself. I feel like I've done everything right. I live in NY and my landlord has sent out an exterminator every time I complain but its been about 6 or 7 treatments and there are still stragglers. I was lying on the couch tonight and one ran across me. I've never seen that before. Usually they hide out pretty good. So I bagged up every article of clothing and sprayed with that goodnite stuff (cause I was freaking out) but I'm worried that once he sprays again they will just come back. I'm thinking the recent problem could have been from my neighbors upstairs. They just recently discovered they have them (and really really bad, like the scary photos you see on the Internet) and I'm wondering if because they sprayed their apartment (and the people across from us who we share a wall with) if its possible they just all scattered? So my concern is should I hire an outside person and try a new treatment? Also I have a small dog so we have to be really careful. Any suggestions?
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bugged18
newbite
Joined: Feb '09
Posts: 33
Posted 6 months ago
Wed Apr 29 2009 20:40:51
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Since your advice so far is chemical I thought I would add this. I had total chemical failure ( demand, phantom, kicker, bedlam, permacide, suspend did not work except first application of suspend for two weeks only) but now gone so far.... this has completely gotten rid of them for at least two people on this site. it is a mechanincal killer they can not get immune to.
Jeanette on this site ( type in search or follow link to thread of how she did it ) used a nontoxic DYI recommended by a epidemiologist. The key is the DE. A poster on the thread, spideyjg, says is not safe. It is is in a safe form when mixed as described it will not become airborne ( which is the only way it is dangerous. If you touch it or a bb walks on it it will come off. I guess spideyjg has not made this mixture and used it so he does not understand.
The link
http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/four-months-bite-free-steps-taken
last I read it was 7 months no bites, the epidemiologist who came up with this says he never has a recall.
last... for me I had to add vaseline on the ceiling ( not the wall may not work ) about 2" band around the whole perimeter. I sprayed the de mixture above the doors also because they were jumping from there. You may want to paint a strip of high gloss paint under where you will apply the vaseline first because the oil of the vaseline may soak into ceiling board. the My bed and office chair is in mineral oil cups and have been chalked. Now, no bb bites for the first time in a year and a half! Use your judgment for your situation to customize. PLEASE FOLLOW HER SIMPLE SAFETY PRECAUTIONS when applying the de mix.
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spideyjg
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Joined: Jul '08
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Posted 6 months ago
Wed Apr 29 2009 21:25:18
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bugged18 - 17 minutes ago »
The key is the DE. A poster on the thread, spideyjg, says is not safe. It is is in a safe form when mixed as described it will not become airborne ( which is the only way it is dangerous. If you touch it or a bb walks on it it will come off. I guess spideyjg has not made this mixture and used it so he does not understand.
PLEASE FOLLOW HER SIMPLE SAFETY PRECAUTIONS when applying the de mix.I understand perfectly.
Here we go.......
Water and 40% alcohol have no killing ability nor does dish soap. The only killing element of that mix is DE.
Soap kills bacteria because it washes away the oily coating, destroying the cell. Now would that have any effect at all on a multicelled organism such as an insect??????Please David, Sean or some pro toss a flag if I am wrong on this.
Issues......
You have to mix it therefore have to deal with raw, poofy, easily airborne DE, guess what, inhalation hazard precautions would be needed.
Now soap is going to have "some" ability to bind the dust and when dried leave a tacky residue containing DE. Now what assurance do you have that the DE will never become airborne from that sediment?
If in fact DE is the only killing element of that mix what benefit is this residual goo over properly applied DE via a duster?
Another thing that concerns me is that DE is a dessicant and works via tearing the bugs skin to interfere with respiration and hydration control dehydrating and killing them.
Soap is a bit of a lubricant so let's run down some questions that I have no answer for....
Is this DE impregnated slippery resigoo more or less effective than regular DE?
Does this application method lessen the respiratory risks?
Does this prevent the DE from becoming airborne?
Does this method lend itself to potential overapplication?
Does the resigoo diguise the DE and bugs are less likely to avoid it? Only a benefit if the efficacy is identical to raw DE.No ifs, ands, or buts that DE can be an inhalation hazard and while this mixture hypothetically on the surface, may reduce dusts generation on application as opposed to a bellows duster and dry DE, the airborne droplets will still contain suspended DE and what on earth makes you think wet DE, inhaled, is safer than inhaled dry DE?
I get it.
Jim
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Joined: Mar '08
Posts: 596
Posted 6 months ago
Wed Apr 29 2009 22:21:40
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My thoughts on the "mix" is ridiculous. If the original poster of that link above got rid of her bed bugs .. Chances are she did it by "I got rid of my box spring and bed frame" and after the water evaporated, it left DE in areas that may have contacted bed bugs. The mix.. sounds like something out of a comic book. After evaporation of both water & alcohol .. what is left? MMMMM .... DE.
You should remember folks .. there will be cases where people can toss a mattress and box spring and solve a bed bug problem. It’s not always likely and I don’t encourage it as your answer to an infestation. But I’m sure some people have gotten away with it.
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Joined: Mar '08
Posts: 596
Posted 6 months ago
Wed Apr 29 2009 22:25:27
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Short and sweet .. because I don't want to change the direction of the thread .. Greetings again ReluctantSurvivor, Thank you for trusting in me to help you solve your BB problem. And thank you for all the kind words. Glad I was able to help! Best, KQ
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spideyjg
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Posted 6 months ago
Wed Apr 29 2009 22:53:44
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Forgot to add but goes without saying. If I ever need to apply DE as a pest control method, I'm not overcomplicating the process by mixing up some brew.
Hell I was at the dentist a few weeks back and there is a device for "sandblasting" cavities that would possibly rock as a powered duster. $2500 though.
Jim
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Posted 6 months ago
Wed Apr 29 2009 23:29:10
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It's already out there Jim. http://www.technicide.com/exacticide.html May not blast out like you mention .. but I use it.
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spideyjg
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Posted 6 months ago
Wed Apr 29 2009 23:45:41
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Interesting but this...
http://www.danvillematerials.com:8888/danville_en/search.do?reqCode=initDetail&id=200259-00
Watching the dentist prep it I thought about many hard to reach and angled places where this would have come in handy with a hose and angled dental tip blasting dust. Looking later I saw the psi was 30 to 120 which would be insane to dust with but the idea stuck.
I would loved to had that one you listed when dusting under all the wall carpet joints that took 2 back breaking days. Hell probably could have blasted through in an hour with that thang!
Jim
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bugged18
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Joined: Feb '09
Posts: 33
Posted 6 months ago
Mon May 4 2009 1:18:04
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Jim, I did not read in detail all of what you guys wrote about de but i did not use it after I found out it was dangerous until I had NO other way to get rid of bb. You are speculating I noticed on the method as opposed to trying it and seeing what happens in real life. I posted to follow safety jeanette recommends and this wa snot made up by me but by and Epidemiologist in santa fe who has a nationally syndicated column "ask the bug man". People have killed themselves ( I am not in that frame of mind but pointing out the distress this causes ), and talk about it a lot on this board because they are sprayed and sprayed and sprayed and it does not work. Resistance is real and de was my only solution ( heat, vikane, steam would not work in my situation after consult with those pco ) and many others who lack funds. aside from the psychological, you can not see your family, friends, no end in site... think about it. What if you were poor on welfare. I heard these people on the bus talking about bb, so sad.
Other hand, I am still scared of DE (but do not cough of have any problems I know of from it) and included this on a separate post concerning the post bb bites, crawling, mites, who knows myself and others are suffering from. I appreciate your position and feel people need to be warned ( I spinkled it all over my last place before I knew it was dangerous ). I hope you will do the same with my position and suggestion.
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spideyjg
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Posted 6 months ago
Mon May 4 2009 1:45:41
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Bugged,
I am not against the usage of DE. Only that it be used in a safe manner. I'm the one harping about proper respirators and HEPA vacuums as safeguards. Some web hucksters act as if it as safe as cake flour.
I treated every crack and crevice with it and even built furniture from IKEA with it rubbed onto the wood surfaces that would form a seam and once assembled I cleaned the excess and sealed the seams. Notice the white dust that is DE.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v186/spideyjg/BBs/BedBugproofing016.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v186/spideyjg/BBs/BedBugproofing017.jpg
Finished product...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v186/spideyjg/BBs/BedBugproofing019-1.jpgI wore protective gear at every stage though.
I respect your position and experience but my question is just comparing the liquid DE suspension mixture vs properly applied dry DE in efficacy.
I hope neither of us ever has to test the hypothesis. I'm not that curious. :)
Jim
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buggyinsocal
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Joined: Jun '08
Posts: 1,130
Posted 6 months ago
Mon May 4 2009 9:14:16
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And even if you cannot inhale the DE once it's suspended in liquid (and take proper precautions while mixing the concoction up in the first place), when the liquids in that mix evaporate, you're going to be left with powdered DE in your apartment.
If it's sprayed in places where it can get stirred up ( as opposed to, say, behind baseboards and into walls or cracks and crevices in undisturbed placed), most of us don't wear respirators around our bedrooms, so you can get exposed.
I think DE is a very useful tool, but the way your post is written about it, it runs the risk of making people feel safer around it than they should. I'm a big proponent of pest control that relies less on chemical pesticides being available as an alternative to chemical only treatment (mostly because I think that with any chemical pesticide long term you run the risk of resistance and I think it's a good idea to have multiple weapons in our arsenal. Plus I live in California, land of the crunchy, environmentally friendly types, and I know that some people are unilaterally opposed to chemical treatment, and I don't want neighbors who won't use chemical pesticides and who foster larger infestations). But I also worry that people will read the reports of DE as, as spidey says, as safe as cake flour and not see that like anything else, DE can be hazardous. Not being really upfront about the fact that after it dries, that mix presents just as high an inhalation hazard as if it has never been mixed while saying "follow the safety directions" is probably not clear enough or specific enough for people in those first few weeks of bed bug and sleep deprivation induced panic. That's what concerns a lot of us around here. Not the mix itself, but the fact that all of the safety info needs to be clearly explained in painful detail.
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