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Vikane Success?

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OutOutDarnBugs

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Posted 6 months ago
Sat May 23 2009 13:41:44
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So, after initially finding my infestation at the end of November and beginning treatment immediately, I didn't see anything (signs, bugs, etc.) from the end of January until last Sunday. There are minimum (if any) signs of bugs in my apartment (other than the two nymphs I found on my bed) and the thought now is that the bugs are in the walls and traveling among the units. Many units in my building have had infestations, the most recent (besides mine) being found in March. Luckily, I had still been living out of ziplocs (5 months, baby!), so I didn't have to re-wash all of my stuff. I guess that's something to be grateful for, huh?

Anyway, my lease is up at the end of July and I am moving. When I hadn't seen anything, I was still intending on vikaning before I moved, just for my sanity's sake. However, now that I'm still (apparently) dealing with bugs, I definitely want to vikane, or treat ALL of my stuff in some way. This isn't to say that I'm not treating my apartment here before I move- I am. But since I'm financially supported by my parents still, I want to get my stuff fumigated (or heated?), in addition to being treated before moving.

When I was getting my stuff vikaned "just because" (ie. before finding bugs last weekend), I wasn't as concerned about how reliable it was (I know this is bad, but since it was just an extra precaution, anything was better than nothing). But now, since I know I'm still dealing with all of this, and could potentially be dealing with it all the way up to moving day, I want to make sure that the vikane works.

I know that there have been users who have vikaned and had it not work. I'm definitely taking their stories into consideration. But I was hoping to hear of people (in NYC in particular, but anywhere would work, too) who found it successful.
Adele

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Posted 6 months ago
Sat May 23 2009 14:44:28
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There are many folks on the boards who have successful Vikane fumigation experiences - but that process is as prone to failure as any other process and you should not assume a 100% success rate regardless of what they sell to you

my expereince with the process was not good - as you read and I don't believe in the process because there are so many variables that can go wrong - for example

1) if your stuff isn't packed exactly the right way - ie you have plastic in the boxes by mistake or the boxes are too full the fumigant won't get to all your stuff

2) or the truck is too fuil and packed too tightly and the fumigant can't circulate properly

3) you have an old truck that has some unseen holes in it and Bed bugs & beyond NEVER tarps the trucks - its just too much work for them - the gas will leak out and they fools won't know it - or if they don't place the fans properly in the truck to circulate the fumigant

4) and if they don't leave the gas in the truck long enough

5) IF you have some incompetent fool that can't shoot the right mixture of the gas

well guess what ? you have failure!!! and you won't know that it's failed until you get your stuff home and unpack it

You see where I'm going? there are a lot of IF's

For my money I would rather hire a competent PCO - and get a steamer and a packtite and save the exra money

That said - and to answer your question - there are many people on the boards who have had Vikane done successfully.

You can reach out to Spideyjg or Paulaw0919 both of whom had successful fumigation done by competent companies (not bed bugs & Beyond)

There are also many people who have had successful PCO treatments as well
OutOutDarnBugs

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Posted 6 months ago
Sat May 23 2009 14:56:25
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Thanks so much, Adele, for all of your help and insight. All of the things you listed are definitely things to think about- I've been hearing mixed reviews about BB&Beyond and their tarping methods. Recently, a PCO mentioned another company that, instead of tarping the truck, moves all of your stuff to a Vikane chamber, which is completely sealed off, as not to let any gas escape. I'm still looking into that, as well.
spideyjg

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Posted 6 months ago
Sat May 23 2009 15:33:08
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Th company we used treat a chamber for wood boring pests beetles, powder post beetles, and they require 10X the concentration that termites do. BBs require 3X the concentration as termites.

These guys had a triple concentration for killing BBs. Ask the provider what concentration they use and how do they monitor it. I'd go for the sealed chamber guys rather than the ones that blew Adele's treatment.

Don't know about those guys in NY but ours did tarp their trailer like they tent for termites.

Vikane itself is effective but as Adele points out many factors can proiduce a failed result. There is much more art and science to heat or fumigation to ensure every possible location gets lethal exposures.

Done properly they can be a 100% one shot kill. Done wrong you get results like Adele did.

I still don't get why there aren't thermal trucks to do this work.

Jim
OutOutDarnBugs

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Posted 6 months ago
Sat May 23 2009 15:59:47
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Thanks, Jim. I'm leaning towards the sealed chamber guys, but the PCO I spoke to is going to talk to them and check out their establishment before he fully recommends them. If BB&Beyond isn't tarping, I'd rather go with guys who try to contain the gas as much as they can. And, obviously, I want to talk to them and ask them all my questions, too.

But seriously, thermal trucks sound like a good idea, too. Wonder why people haven't started setting those up.
Adele

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Posted 6 months ago
Sat May 23 2009 16:16:40
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Out - it's ok to name companies names here

can you tell us the name of the fumigation company you are considering? also are you working with a PCO from the forum? I think it's great that he will speak to the firm on your behalf

I ask because i am curious as to what they are going to say and if there is a more effective or competent company that does Vikane fumigation more reliably in the NY area

well people should know

I am a vocal opponent to Bed bugs & beyond and the shoddy work they do - but vikane is an old chemical treatment that has been used for a very long time for termites and other purposes as Jim pointed out and when done properly is 100% effective
OutOutDarnBugs

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Posted 6 months ago
Sat May 23 2009 16:48:15
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Thanks, Adele. Sadly, I can't remember the name of the other company. As soon as I'm reminded, I will definitely post it, as well as what they tell me. If there is another option for people in NYC other than BB&Beyond, it would be great to know. Even if they make the decision to use BB&Beyond for their fumigation...

I am, in fact, currently working with a PCO from the forum (or one who posts every now and then). I previously worked with KQ, who was fantastic, and who I would highly, highly recommend. Right now I'm speaking with another PCO, not because KQ wasn't great (he truly was!), but because my LL has contacted this other PCO to potentially check out the rest of the building using a k9. The PCO that I'm using right now has gotten good reviews from some posters, whereas some people didn't like him as much. I'm willing to give him a chance, since it seems as if he's willing to go to bat for me.

But, as soon as I find out the details (and the name! Damn my bad memory!) of this other company, I will totally let you guys know.
Adele

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Posted 6 months ago
Sat May 23 2009 20:30:36
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bad memory, huh? alrighty then...

well, good luck to you
OutOutDarnBugs

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Posted 6 months ago
Sat May 23 2009 20:53:10
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Yes. Unfortunately, due to grad school wrapping up, work taking a toll on me physically and mentally, and the resurgence of these pests, my brain has been in overload and apparently details aren't sinking in.

Thanks for the luck, Adele. I'm hoping it starts soon.
OutOutDarnBugs

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Posted 5 months ago
Mon May 25 2009 17:56:18
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Bump?
MartyJMK

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Posted 5 months ago
Wed May 27 2009 11:54:40
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Hi Out,

As you know we're dealing with similar situations. I'm still trying to get my management company to let me out of my lease since they won't take care of the issue in the rest of the building.

Can you post the name of the treatment company that does the sealed chamber treatment? From reading everything I have I'm leaning away from BB and Beyond now.

Adele, I'm still in ziplocs, using the Paktite and trying to be as vigilant as possible. Did you move while doing these things and were you successful?
OutOutDarnBugs

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Posted 5 months ago
Wed May 27 2009 15:46:35
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Hey Marty,

I'm sorry we're at this point together. I just found out I can move into my new apartment on July 1, so while I'm totally happy about that, I'm also more determined to fix this problem before I move, now.

Anyway, the PCO I'm working with told me the name, but I've forgotten. When I find out again, I'm going to call and speak to them about the chamber. I'd rather not post the name until I find out more, just so I'm not giving out incorrect information. From what I understand, though, they're relatively new at fumigating personal belongings for bed bugs, but they've done fumigation for other things.

This, obviously, poses a dilema: Do I go with a company that's (potenitally) new to bed bugs but does a chamber, or go with a company that has experience, but uses a truck and possibly does not do a complete job the first time?

As soon as I get more information, I'll let you guys know.
Adele

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Posted 5 months ago
Wed May 27 2009 21:42:48
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To answer your question - I am methodically and slowly treating every single thing I own in the packtite and sealing in contractor bags and weekly steaming all my furniture and everything else that can't go into the Packtite

So I am doing much much more then just being vigilant - and yes I am feeling like I have got all if not most of the problem - but mind you before I started doing this I felt like I had almost killed them all but not quite all of them because I was still getting odd bites now and then .

now I am not getting bitten at all - but this is a slow and tedious process and I have another month to move so I am taking my time and being thorough

I will also replace my bedframe and get new mattress encasements - that may be overkill but better safe than sorry

as for the fumigation - inthe ny regional area - I think Western fumigation may be able to help you - but I would also talk to bed bugs & beyond and ask them if they have access to a sealed fumigation vault versus truck based treatments

whoever you speak to - make sure you make it clear to them that you want PROOF that they are using the gas at 3X level and using the appropriate amount of gas for the vault chamber

I also think that Suburban exterminating on Long Island does vault fumigation

If you are going to fumigate I would only consider doing it with vault based fumigation and NOT fumigating it in a truck - that's the cheap and easy way for them - they just stick a tube in the back of the truck and charge you a grand and then call it a day - that's shoddy and I don't think it works

just be careful not to re-use the same truck and get a different truck to drag your stuff out
OutOutDarnBugs

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Posted 5 months ago
Thu May 28 2009 6:13:16
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Yes! Oh, Adele, you're great! That was the name of the other company: Suburban exterminating on Long Island.

More and more, from hearing your expertise, I'm DEFINITELY leaning to the vault. I don't have a whole lot of stuff (what with living in a studio apartment, and only for a 9 months... 6 months of which have been spent in bags and afraid to acquire anything new). I really really don't have the money to pay for a vikane treatment that doesn't work... sadly, this economy doesn't allow me to save anything and I'm living paycheck to paycheck (as so many of us are) on a teacher salary.

I also have a Packtite, so I'm doing all my Packtitable stuff before it gets Vikaned, anyway. Just for an extra precaution.

Thanks, also, for letting me know about getting PROOF of the amount of gas they are going to use! All these things I would have never thought of, and I'm glad to benefit from your knowledge (even though it was gained through a unpleasant event).
paulaw0919

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Posted 5 months ago
Thu May 28 2009 7:27:04
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When I was in touch with Dow during our fumigation they said that the fumigation company should provide you with a stats sheet when the process is done. Back when I had this done, I asked for this sheet after the fact and it was not easy to get from the company.

I would let the fumigation company know that you want a copy of the written report of the fumigation before you go forward in doing it. I don't know if they do this type of report with trucks, vaults etc... but it's done on structural fumigation.
Basically it looked like a spread sheet that showed the amount of fumigant put it, the rate, the ounce hours, how it was monitored hour by hour, and if gas was needed to be added or not to be kept at the projected rate.

If you tell them in advance, and then again the day of the fumigation they are more likely to be prepared to give you the sheet when all is done. (if there is even a sheet with smaller jobs?)
MartyJMK

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Posted 5 months ago
Thu May 28 2009 9:31:16
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Thanks Out, Adele and all. This is very helpful.

Out, I just got confirmation that my management company is going to let me out of my lease! So hopefully I'll also be in a new place by July 1st (June 15th if I can get everything coordinated). They're still not taking responsibility and refuse to treat or notify the other units, unfortunately.

So I'm planning to discard my mattress and couch (both confirmed with BB activity from KQ). I know these should be wrapped in plastic before discarding and marked so as not to transmit any bugs elsewhere, but does anyone know of how to do this? As a single woman in a studio apartment, I can't do this alone and I don't know if a moving company would do it if it's BB exposed?

Also, this may be a dumb question about the fumigation and truck vs. chamber, but once it's fumigated, how does it get moved without potentially re-exposing? Is the chamber moveable into a truck? Honestly I don't want to pay a ridiculous amount of money if it just ends up potentially contaminated.

BB and Beyond asks that stuff be packed in cardboard boxes. Seems a little crazy since the dreaded BBs love cardboard. Since I already have my clothes and some belongings in ziplocs, couldn't those just go in unzipped?
paulaw0919

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Posted 5 months ago
Thu May 28 2009 10:06:25
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Cardboard is better for fumigation. It can easily penetrate through wood. Plastics...not so much. Thick plastic bags, not a good idea.
What ever fumigation you decide to go with, be vigilant, take precautions and get a prep-list if they have one. Follow their directions and ask them questions along the way.
Adele

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Posted 5 months ago
Thu May 28 2009 11:02:45
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you really don't want ANY plastic anywhere in your boxes - ziploc bags or anything

ALL of your stuff has to be accessible to the fumigant for this to work - and personally I am not a believer in this process to begin with but lots of people have done it successfully.

VIkane is an old treatment that has been used for many purposes - but my expereinces as you know is that it has been a really ineffective treatment but that may becasue of the way BB&B did it

but my point is that you want to do everything you can to increase the odds of success and not hinder it
OutOutDarnBugs

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Posted 5 months ago
Thu May 28 2009 17:35:15
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Marty, I feel like I'm reading about myself! I'm having many of the same questions. Being a young woman living alone in a studio apartment, I'm not sure about how to get my stuff TO the vault, as well as getting it back, un-contaminated! And I definitely can't move out my bed by itself (I've decided to keep it... even though I'm slightly uncomfortable with it, it was purchased in August, and I really really don't have enough money to replace it).

In terms of packing, I'm getting rid of EVERYTHING in plastic (I realized that I don't actually have that much...) and packing very loosely in cardboard boxes. Some people even recommend getting banana boxes (with holes cut out in the side), so I think I'm gonna look into that. Any way to have the gas penetrate as much as possible. I'm still trying to figure out how to pack my clothes for the vikane. And my books... being a graduate student and a teacher, I have a fair amount of books, but I don't want to pack them tightly... I can't figure how to fan them out, either.

I'm DEFINITELY gonna ask for all the gas information in written form, for sure now!
buggyinsocal

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Posted 5 months ago
Thu May 28 2009 17:56:06
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I'm also a single woman who lives alone. While I'm a lot stronger than I look, I can't move large furniture by myself.

In the end, I enlisted the help of a good friend who came over for a few hours at a time on key prep/clean up days, since I just couldn't move some items by myself.

As for the books, maybe milk crates? They have the advantage of being completely permeable.

And as someone who's moved WAY too many books in my life, book boxes are awfully heavy. It probably would be wise to spread some of them out throughout other boxes, which not only helps with the fumigation, but would also reduce the number of "Oh my God, is this filled with lead? No? Oh, books. That explains it" boxes.

Not that I've had that experience often or anything.
IveBeenBugged

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Posted 5 months ago
Thu May 28 2009 18:08:57
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Well this was good timing. I was getting ready to post that tomorrow it will be one year to the day that I moved out of the old bed bug infested building - had my stuff vikaned and got rid of the bed bugs.

If you can get a truck one size larger than what you would need. Pack loosely. I used a combination of open sided plastic containers (think file boxes) and banana boxes. The banana boxes alreay have holes in the sides. I also used boxes and cut holes in the sides. I packed the truck about half full.

I opted not to take my bed (to many bad memories). I spray painted it with bed bugs written on it and put it out for bulk pick up the same morning they came. It was sealed in a protect a bed encasement.

I also had the new place sprayed three times over the first 6 weeks as an additional precaution. This was done by a professional company.

Adele I'm sorry your still having problems. I had hoped to not see you on the forums or at least find out you also were now BB free.
Adele

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Posted 5 months ago
Thu May 28 2009 19:32:09
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aahhh IBB - you're sweet as always!! I'm glad you are doing well

I think I've become a fixture here - but I am doing better each dayis better and I feel that I will get there
needsleepplz

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Posted 5 months ago
Fri May 29 2009 19:07:17
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I also used bb&b but put my belongings immediately in storage. A month ago I took one item out and it was still infested. Bb&b assured that it could not have been them etc and he had proof that there was no way any bug could have survived. I'm freaked out now bc almost everything except for a bag of clothes is in storage. This is a nightmare...I'm worried about finding a bb free apt and if I do I'm worried about reinfesting incase thr vikane treatment was unsuccesful.... I feel like throwing everything out and starting fresh..
Adele

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Posted 5 months ago
Fri May 29 2009 21:38:01
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yes but did you seal your belongings before you put them into storage?

if not -they may be right - you may have picked them in the storage locker. That is how I contracted my bedbugs was from storing stuff in a storage locker.

I am not defending bed Bugs & beyond because they obviously do shoddy work and it's just as likely that they screwed up the fumigation as well - they insisted the same thing to me. It's not our fault!!! Oh and they also say they never get complaints either

I mean really what else are they supposed to say - that they are incompetent fools that can't seem to do properly the ONLY thing that they advertise they do?

it's really unfortunate but both scenarios are equally likely and the bottom line is that if you puilled one thing out of the locker that is infested - it is likey that ALL your stuff is infested and you need to proceed accordingly
needsleepplz

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Posted 5 months ago
Sat May 30 2009 8:06:39
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Actually it was the storage unit that they recommended and that since there wasn't a person 'living' in the storage unit, bed bugs from other units would have no reason to roam around since they only go where food is. They said they're going to vikane again when i take my belongings out of storage but i don't even know if i want it. Do you know if anyone had a success story using bb&b? This has costed me way too much money and i'll probably go through the throw everything away route.