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Vikane in NY ???
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paulaw0919
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Posted 5 years ago
Fri Sep 7 2007 13:48:16
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Upon my search on information of Vikane I came accross this company. Bedbugs and Beyond
I did not contact them but did notice that their address is in NY.
I know that vikane has been used for some apartment buildings though I don't know how large. I don't know the good this company is, but found it interesting being located in NY. -
persona-non-bugga
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Posted 5 years ago
Mon Sep 10 2007 5:53:09
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Very interesting. It would be incredible if NYC apartment buildings and hotels could be wrapped up and zapped with Vikane. It would be a kick to see a thirty-story building covered in a tarp. But since this is NY, some buildings would pretend it was a massive art project (a la Christo) rather than admit to a bed bug infestation.
http://www.bedbugsandbeyond.com/page4.html
Under "Services," this company's website says:
"Our treatment method is preformed by using a sealed, tented or chamber fumigation method with Vikaneâ„¢ gas fumigant that will kill bed bugs and other oxygen breathing pests with in the containment structure."
Sealed fumigation? Maybe there's a way to apply the Vikane without a tent?
http://www.bedbugsandbeyond.com/page9.html
Then there's this odd tidbit under their "Learning Center," which the company put in caps for emphasis.
"One important fact is that bed bugs DO NOT TRAVEL UP ONLY DOWN so a correct treatment method of Vikaneâ„¢ fumigation is KEY to the successful eradication of these pests."
To which I say: huh? I've seen a few youtube videos of bed bugs scurrying UP walls. They're pretty fast.
The apartment below mine had bed bugs for several months before I did. I believe the bed bugs traveled UP from my neighbor's unit to mine.
If successful treatment really does depend on this questionable "fact," then I'm concerned.
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paulaw0919
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Posted 5 years ago
Mon Sep 10 2007 8:01:23
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I know that other companies such as Western and Royal Fumigation perform structural fumigation and that they were successfull. This bedbugs and beyond I think is a newer company. To me this means that pest control companies are looking for better ways to rid this bugs. The PCO that I used in the past is now looking into fumigation as well, possibly camber fumigation for personal items.
To me, where fumigation is possible, it will have alot less length of time in the suffering for the persons dealing withthe bugs. I feel it's very good and that it's starting to become more accessable to the consumer and a great start in the right direction. Again, it does need to be performed correctly, and that there is no residual so that immediate reinfestion is possible. But with large, spread infestations this sounds promising. I wonder how many other new company sites for structural fumigation we will be seeing in the near future? Maybe, especially in large apartments they could be smart enough to do a structural fumigation and follow up with one conventional treatment with a residual to at least lower the risk upon reentry to the building....That would mean one chemical treatment vs many, many in the exposure to people and the bugs (and the resisitance they are developing).... -
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Posted 5 years ago
Tue Sep 11 2007 2:24:20
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Vikane can be a wonderful option in many situations.
But for buildings with regular exposure to bed bugs (such as hotels, where a new bed bug-carrying traveler may enter any time) it may not be so useful.
If some fear of continued exposure exists, as in many homes, and in badly infested hotels or multi-unit dwellings, then an option might be vikane followed by DE and careful cleaning used to maintain the home as bed bug-free.
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persona-non-bugga
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Posted 5 years ago
Tue Sep 11 2007 11:07:07
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paulaw0919; "To me, where fumigation is possible, it will have alot less length of time in the suffering for the persons dealing withthe bugs. I feel it's very good and that it's starting to become more accessable to the consumer and a great start in the right direction."
Oh, I'm totally with you there. I'm just hoping Vikane can be used more readily on apartment buildings - especially those several stories tall, because the current ad-hoc piecemeal "treatment" of bed bugs in our cities seems to be doing nothing to dampen their spread and is probably encouraging it. We need a knock-out punch like Vikane here in NYC and elsewhere.
I've seen houses in Florida and the Caribbean tented and sealed off for termite fumigation. But I have no idea how they would seal off structures much taller and larger than the average private home. Is it even possible? I imagine anything is physically possible, but I fear it may just be a matter of being too cost-prohibitive.
What intrigued me about this fumigation company is that their office is in the heart of Harlem - a typical Manhattan neighborhood where multi-unit buildings are the norm. Even the brownstones all adjoin each other. If pros figure out how to fumigate these sort of residences with Vikane at prices that landlords and management companies can stomach, then that would make me very happy indeed.
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your host
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Posted 5 years ago
Tue Sep 11 2007 21:49:50
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non-bugga,
yes--they tent apartment buildings.
it's expensive though. And the bed bugs can be brought back in the very next day. A single-family home owner can control that better than a building.
Also, I think attached houses (townhouses, attached brownstones, etc. are tricky.) But if a tall building can be tented, no doubt a wide one (or joined ones) can too. The trick there would be convincing a row full of landlords, which has got to be hard! -
UESbugs
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Posted 5 years ago
Thu Oct 25 2007 12:56:14
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Someone just replied to me on my other Vikane post about bedbugsandbeyond, so I did a quick google search and found this post.
I had asked the Vikane guy on phone these very same questions. Let's put it this way:
1. a single truck treatment for the smallest truck of 12ft, starts in the four figure range (am I allowed to post prices?);
2. the truck has to sit for a minimum of 24 hours; and
3. the truck is made of metal and fiberglass, no wood or anything of which that is permeable.
So, when I asked, why can't they just tent an entire building and get on with it? He answered a few ways, 1. it's illegal to tent a building that is attached to other buildings (almost all bldgs in Manhattan are attached, don't forget about street level where even highrises meet), 2. if a 12" truck costs 4 figures, how much do you think the landlord would have to spend on an entire building even if it were possible to close off an attached group of buildings somehow, 3. you'd have to convince an entire building to evacuate for at least 24 hours *with their pets and oh yes, NO belongings. How is it possible to rally up hundreds of unwilling NY'ers (and there surely will be those annoying stubborn ones who are unwilling to participate and get them to leave their homes, and what? return naked? There is no residual, so, infestation can be immediate.
It's much easier to treat a single home, and they do it all the time. I heard a small house in Queens was $12,000. A SMALL house. Landlords of NYC are not jumping on this for a reason. BRING BACK DDT!!!
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UESbugs
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Posted 5 years ago
Thu Oct 25 2007 12:57:25
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When I said I found "this post", I meant, the post titled Vikane in NY. Everything else is what I just wrote according to a conversation I had this morning with a Vikane guy.
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paulaw0919
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Posted 5 years ago
Thu Oct 25 2007 13:54:10
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I would like to add some knowledge of what I have here. I called three different companies when looking to Vikane my home. All three were in the same price range. I have a 2000 sq ft home. It cost me $7500 to perform with the company I chose. One company was only about $150 less and the other was about $800. One of the companies did an apartment building of about 10 apts. and the cost was a little more but not so much in compared with the size. Most of the cost to do a building I believe is the man power an time it takes. There was about 6 men total here and one took shifts to stay at the location 24hrs be sure the gas kept the same levels.
I'm sure alot must have to do with location, for in FL. it is much less. In FL they do it often of dry wood termites. Dry wood termites takes 1X and bedbugs take 3X the amount of drywood termites. So the cost in the fumigant alone goes up in the case of bedbugs as well.
The only thing that I can stress, is whether you Vikane a structure or a truck for bedbugs...make sure they hold the fumigant in for an extended amount of time for total egg kill. I've done research on Vikane and it takes longer for the fumigant to penetrate the eggs. If the company you choose fumigates for bedbugs on a regular basis they know it takes at least 3X and the correct duration time. (that differs on how good a seal, weather, wind, temp etc...it's all on a computer data from DOW) -
jimmypop2008
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Posted 5 years ago
Thu Oct 25 2007 14:11:35
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I ahve spoken with bedbugsand beyond a few times. I didnt' realize anyone else in NY did it. I have a three floor house, probably in the 3,000 sq ft range and i thing we are probably talking 5 figures. At least from them. The one thing is that if you don't do tenting, then they have to do tape which is more expensive and takes longer. The problem with tenting is tht the whole world knows you have a problem. Not exactly the ebst way to make friends with your neighbors.
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paulaw0919
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Posted 5 years ago
Thu Oct 25 2007 14:45:13
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I priced them out after I had already went with another company to price compare and get help with advise. They were very nice and informative. They were also the cheapest of the three companies I looked at (we live in NJ) It ended up that they couldn't treat us anyway because they aren't licensed in NJ yet.
I can see you the taping thing would take longer. I wonder if it holds as good of a seal? I went with the tent. I don't care what my neighbors thought. Some know and that's okay. I did what was right for my home and family. After 6 traditional treatments I could not rid them totally. They way I look at it, if anyone wants to know they are more than welcome to ask. The nieghbors I do know, know that I'm a clean freak so this can happen to anyone.
In my opinion only...I think the tent way is the way to go. The fumigant gets fully loaded inside and outside the structure. No matter how deap the bugs may go...I would think they are getting hit by both sides because anything inside the tent gets fumigated. (inside and out) Just an opinion. -
jimmypop2008
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Posted 5 years ago
Thu Oct 25 2007 14:52:43
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So Paula you ahve been okay since the fumigation?
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paulaw0919
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Posted 5 years ago
Thu Oct 25 2007 15:11:39
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Good question. Not sure yet. I think so but my skin is doing so many freaky things right now it's hard to tell. I feel if I went with Vikane much sooner, it would have been much easier on the mental state. I have alot of phobia's jut moving about the house right now, in fear I'm spreading them in case they all didn't die. I'm sure therapy and time will cure that.
I've had a few bites, but nothing on the kids yet. No signs on sheets that I can see or call specs. The occassional what looks like a small dried bugger under a 10x magnifier from the kids in their crib, but that's about it
Hubby doesn't react to much so it's hard to tell. But we do live in the country and have biting midges, wood in the back yard etc... I'm sure I've gotten blemishes, bumps etc on me before this bedbug ordeal. So right now I'm just on high alert for a while. Right now I'm bagging dirty laundry still. Hubby bags work clothes before going to work and before he goes to the car to come home just in case. They did keep it in for an extending time to be sure, so I think we're okay. The temp at night was in the low 50's at that time, worries me a bit. But when I called DOW they said that it wasn't a problem. (Fans were put in the rooms during fumiation to help spread it around persay..) We even had the minivan in the garage, the car outside the garage but under the tent to be fumigated as well. (Food for thought, if that's an option for you) -
jimmypop2008
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Posted 5 years ago
Thu Oct 25 2007 15:14:16
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I spoke to someone at western and they said they are pretty much coming to the end of the season now. Not warm enough for long enough.
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nyjammin
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Posted 5 years ago
Fri Nov 2 2007 13:14:47
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Bedbugsandbeyond's website states:
"Sulfuryl fluoride prevents insects from metabolizing the stored fats they need to maintain a sufficient source of energy for survival by disrupting the glycolysis cycle. Mortality may be delayed for the insects for several days following fumigation, therefore insects that have received a lethal dose may still by alive for up to 3-5 days following fumigation. Sulfuryl fluoride has also been demonstrated to reduce oxygen uptake in insect eggs."
Since the bugs can live up to 5 days after fumigation, can't the bugs still lay eggs and thereby create a new infestation since the eggs have not been exposed to the fumigation?
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paulaw0919
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Posted 5 years ago
Fri Nov 2 2007 14:12:26
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I would call and question them on that. I know from researching Vikane that with Termites it is true that you may see a few live ones up to a week or so after a fumigation. That is because they are not aiming to kill the eggs with termites. The termite babies cannot live with out the adult. This is not true with bebugs as we know.
The section of their website that you are reading is talking of the Vikane Product itself and how it works on insects in general. This is not on a page for bebugs alone. I'm sure they do fumigation for other bugs than just bedbugs. Below is a copy and past of the page. SERVICES
VIKANE™ GAS (SULFURAL FLOURIDE) FUMIGATION OF BED BUGS AND ALL OTHER OXYGEN BREATHING PESTS
Bed Bugs and Beyond treats 100% of targeted pests using Vikane™ gas introduced by Dow AgroSciences. Our treatment method is performed by using a sealed, tented or chamber fumigation method with Vikane™ gas fumigant that will kill bed bugs and other oxygen breathing pests with in the containment structure. Vikane™ gas fumigant will eliminate bed bugs and other oxygen breathing pests, even those that cannot be found through visual inspection, because the fumigant penetrates cracks and crevices to kill pests wherever they hide.
Bed bugs are exceptionally challenging to treat because you must eliminate all stages of life to be successfull, most importaint the egg which Vikane does upon fumigation. Bed bugs can be widely dispersed throughout a structure, infesting tiny cracks and crevices the thickness of a business card; and there is an extremely high risk of resurgence if all bed bugs in every stage of life are not killed in a single treatment method.
Vikane is made up of sulfuryl fluoride which is a highly effective nerve agent that displaces oxygen and will kill post-embryonic life stages of an insects eggs. The dosage of sulfuryl fluoride required for a specific pest is calculated in “ounce-hours,” ounces of Vikane™ multiplied by hours of exposure. In general, insect eggs require a higher ounce-hour dosage compared to later life stages. However, the ability to control egg stages of social insects is not necessary because newly hatched larvae cannot survive without adult care. Furthermore, the higher dosages required to control insect eggs can be obtained by increasing exposure time, concentration of sulfuryl fluoride, or a combination of the two.
Sulfuryl fluoride prevents insects from metabolizing the stored fats they need to maintain a sufficient source of energy for survival by disrupting the glycolysis cycle. Mortality may be delayed for the insects for several days following fumigation, therefore insects that have received a lethal dose may still by alive for up to 3-5 days following fumigation. Sulfuryl fluoride has also been demonstrated to reduce oxygen uptake in insect eggs.
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nyjammin
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Posted 5 years ago
Fri Nov 2 2007 14:36:36
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Ok, just spoke w/BB&Beyond. They said that the above is for termites and that ALL bbs and their egges should be dead because they use 3x more the treatment. But the way it was worded concerned me and that the paragraph was right under the bb treatment so I thought they went together.
Makes me feel better about the Vikane.
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paulaw0919
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Posted 5 years ago
Fri Nov 2 2007 15:48:02
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Thanks jammin. I put an email in to them about it asking as well. It did look a little "grey" But from what I've learned I thought it was about insects that needed adults when born. Thanks for the confirmation.
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