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USING SAUNA for heating/treatment of stuff - Questions? / advice needed
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Zilver
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Posted 1 year ago
Sat Jul 9 2011 19:08:08
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Ok, so I will do it this way:
First post will give you a brief explaining of my situation,
In the Second post in this thread I´ll post my actual SAUNA-questions! ( So you can go straight at them if you want to
)I have posted before telling who I lived in a shared studentapartment with 2 others, where one guys room had an infestation which spread to at least a walkin closet where I had some stuff stored, and how I then after a few months got clearance to move from my housingcompany.
Anyhow, I´ve been in my new apartment now for 3-4 months and haven´t really seen any certain signs of bedbugs, so I´m starting to get ny hopes up the move went well. Still I´m a bit nervous, as many others, since i didn´´t see, or did show any reaction from, bites in my last apartment. Maybe I´m a non-reactor.
Therefore I´m a little worried and really have to work on convincing myself to start believing my apartment actually is free from bedbugs.
Guess that´s the normal routine form most who´s been going through this.Now the thing is I´m done with my education! Yippii! Also got a job! Yeah!
The "complicated" part is this means I have to move again...and to another housingcompany who may not be as understanding if I happen to still have the bedbugs. So since I can´t be 100% sure as I´m uncertain if I will react to bites, I consider doing a treatmentrun again. After all I don´t have as much stuff now as before, so it might be worth the extra work.
Also, and that´s maybe as much of a reason, it would probably make me feel better knowing I´ve tried to do my best! -
Zilver
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Posted 1 year ago
Sat Jul 9 2011 19:42:17
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Thing is the studentaccomodations and apartmentareas has a few SAUNAS we can rent for free, and one is just 50m from my apartment. In the summer very few use it (somewhat not surprising haha) so I was thinking I could use it. (of course taking precautions)
So my plan is to have it on like 55-60dC and treat some stuff. In example
* 1) some kitchenwares
* 2 ) a bunch of books I will need for my work
* 3) some machines/electrics , like my TV that isn´t that expensive ( a simple LG 32 flatscreen) so I can take some chances.
* 4) My laptop which I alreeady treated once at 60-65dC in a dryingcupboard in my last move a few months back.
* 5) Also I consider to use it for some some clothing maybe, like thicker sweaters, cardigans etc,some shirts that don´t like the dryerheat of 70dC, and some newer shoes I have.'THE BENEFIT IS I CAN TREAT A LOT AT ONCE AS I CAN UT THE STUFF ON THE SAUNABENCHES AND THEY ARE LIKE 2-3M LONG / 70-80CMs WIDE
So my thoughts/questions:
At 55-60dC that I consider aiming for :
* A ) How long would I have treat stuff in that temeprature? Will it differ a lot, like books needing longer and shirts myabe just an hour or so?
* B) If a bedbug sneaks out from, say a book, in that heat, How long can it survive. Do they die straight away.
( I mean, I don´t wanna risk spreading bedbugs in the sauna, and then maybe to others visiting the sauna, If I happen to have some)* C) Would it be smart to have stuff in some big plastic bags, or some plastic bins/containers, or will it isolate some from the heat in the sauna?
(My thought is no, if it is for so long time in a sauna, but the PCO-pros should know more on heattreatment so I rather have some expertopinions)* D) If you have a lot of clothes, would it actually be smarter to put it all in the sauna, for say a few hours, instead of drying , spending like a 6-9h in total in the laundryroom instead?
Thought maybe it saves me time using the sauna, plus I don´t have to book laundrytimes, but that is IF IT IS an as safe option as a dryer?*E ) Is it anyting in a flatscreen TV that can explode or be hasardous in any other way in these temperatures? (like the battery in a laptop i.ex.)
One last question that may sound stupid:
* F) Could a bedbug actually survive "hiding on me in the sauna since our bodytemp is afterall supposed to be only 37dC ?
Might be a stupid question, but I´m asking since I consider sitting IN the sauna WATCHING OVER the process so nothing bad happens. Don´t wanna start a fire in the sauna of course!
ACTUALLY MY WHOLE THOUGHT WITH THIS I:
IF THE BEDBUGS CAN´T SURIVE ON ME EITHER THEN I CAN UNDRESS IN THE SAUNA and THEN SIT IN THE SAUNA MYSELF, WHILE MY STUFF BEING TREATED, AND THEN WALK RIGHT OUT WITH MY STUFF AND KNOW EVERYTHING SHOULD BE TREATED AND FREE FROM BEDBUGS...INCLUDING ME! Then I can walk up to a friend take a shower and then take my stuff with me on the train to my new apartment, knowing I´ve been trying to do the best I can think off.
Sorry for a long post, but I think you can have understanding and see that at this time i´t feels kind of important for me to try to do what I can to do things right.
Happy for any replies and input. Think the SAUNA-thought may be interesting to discuss anyhow maybe:)
Thanx in advance! -
jrbtnyc
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Posted 1 year ago
Sun Jul 10 2011 0:30:13
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It does seem like a worthwhile direction to think about because 55 degrees Centigrade = 131 degrees Fahrenheit which is certainly hot enough to kill bed bugs.
Saunas are relatively spacious so people could bring their couches, chairs, desks, etc., maybe even beds, to bake in them. Might be quite an affordable way to clear objects of bb's, such as in particular at the time of doing a move, which is often during warm months of the year when saunas might tend to be most readily available as you point out.
Sauna operators might discover they're doing much bigger business as bb clearinghouses in summertime than they had been doing with their traditional recreational clientele previously in winter!
Question might be whether sauna-type heat penetrates such objects sufficiently to kill bb's who instinctively will scramble about inside the objects searching for cool spots.
Has anyone already investigated this. For instance, djames1921, the inventor and producer of the PackTite, who posts not infrequently here on bedbugger.com, may have insights on this.
Inside a sauna does air circulate? Because djames1921 has pointed out that conductive heat (like a radiator if I understand him correctly) often fails to kill bb's since they succeed in moving away to escape from it; whereas convective heat (hot air blowing around, as the PackTite uses) tends to spread the heat more evenly so bb's can't escape. So would it be a good idea to modify the sauna by putting a fan inside it to blow the heat around? But in any event the bb's wouldn't have anywhere to escape to inside the sauna, fan or no fan. Unless they would exit the objects being baked and move to the sides of the sauna and go into cracks and crevices which might be cooler - but that seems like something which it would be easy to prevent the bugs from doing - if the bugs exit the objects looking for a cool haven, and someone is sitting there watching, they could catch the bugs and squish them of course.
Anyway it seems worth some serious testing, unless someone has already tested it and found it doesn't work for some reason.
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Zilver
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Posted 1 year ago
Sun Jul 10 2011 3:45:16
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Thanx for your reply JRBTNYC! Lots of interesting feedback and thoughts!
Actually, on using a sauna, I know some PCO-companies here suggest it as a method to customer, but I ain´t sure how much they actually tested or researched it.
But I guess that if they use like heatingtents for stuff, this should be the same principle? Seems somewhat logical to me.About the heat. If the sauna has been on for like an hour before I go in there the heat has reached all areas, but it´s always "less hot" on the lower levels, like the floor. Something I guess most that´s been sitting in a sauna do know of course
Also I know a towel or especially like a can of beer/coca cola or whatever gets hot when you leave it in a sauna, like when your saunabathing and sit there for an hour or two just chatting, Still I havent really thought about how long it takes and how hot it gets.
I know for sure you can burn yourslef on the can, but the towel you stíll can sit on as you use it to sit on because it feels less hot then the woodenseats. Hmmm...makes your wonder.Still, as you say JRBTNYC , it´s a queation of how much cooler it is on the floorlevel? But that I can just rent the Sauna for a time and test out.
Anyhow , that´s why I also was thinking about some container, like bags and bins. I already have a few of these myself:
http://www.clasohlson.se/Product/Product.aspx?id=163426346They can take up to 120dC so I´ve used for baking stuff in, and for pooring hot water over stuff I put in there. My thought is that the walls on them might not even be easy for a bedbug to climb.
But I doubt is, since I think they might be able to climb that kind of plastic?Ikea also have this kind of storage in some textile material with a zipper.
http://www.ikea.com/se/sv/catalog/products/60179467It´s an idea I considered as it´s spacious and it´s not a thick fabric so I doubt it would isolate from heat. Still i wouldn´t trust the zipper being all airtight so I guess you have to keep an eye for the end of the zipper where the zipper locks up if some bedbug try to run.
Question still is; How long do a bedbug survive in around 130dF/55dC?
Looking at this and how fast they die at 120dF one can wonder. http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/how-hot-how-long-how-dead
Not that time is a real problem. If I rent the sauna I have it for like 24h. More because I wonder if the bug would have time to run and hide before it dies of the heat.
Many thoughts here, as always when you wanna do stuff right in treatment
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jrbtnyc
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Posted 1 year ago
Sun Jul 10 2011 8:12:42
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Should be easy enough to place a fan inside the sauna pointing vertically to circulate lots of air and make sure the lower reaches are just as hot as the higher. Also put thermometers in there if they aren't already, to verify.
Sauna's asset is, it's already thoroughly worked out from a technical point of view so there are zero concerns about safety plus there's an existing infrastructure for equipment so presumably, new entrepreneurs would be able to get up and running relatively easily.
Also, I don't know what sauna prices are but maybe they're relatively affordable compared to current bb-elimination heat treatment setups? And also more numerous, so people even in smaller cities and towns might be able to find one?
For doing furniture, one hurdle would likely be that existing saunas are set up for humans to walk into, so they might be in interiors of buildings inconvenient to lug couches and etc. into; also their doors might be too narrow. So could saunas be reconfigured to face the outside of a building, maybe even abut a parking lot, and have wide doors so a van could pull up right next to them and the furniture go directly in from the van.
From the sauna operator's point of view having two different customer bases would be a substantial attraction it seems to me, if they prove to be compatible with each other.
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Zilver
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Posted 1 year ago
Sun Jul 10 2011 9:55:45
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Yep , as you say, it might even be a possible new market for saunamanufacturers!
Haven´t really thought about that perspective when I started the thread, but it sure is an interesting one! The heater used in a sauna isn´t that expensive so I think it will be more about solving the safety etc, but I doubt it would be cheap enough anyhow for normal people to use.
But could be a cheap solution that PCOs maybe could use and possibly a good alternative to offer for their customers. Especially if it was possible to build some movable solution to put up i.ex. outside the house treated etc.I ain´t even thinking about treating furnitures as I lived quite "simple" in my new apartment.
It´s more about if it could work as an option for me for treating TV, books and maybe clothes and some other stuff.But the thing is that the 55-60dC I mentioned of course is a low temperature for a sauna. You can easily get the temp up to 75-80dC if u want to, but I ain´t sure it would be something to recommend looking at it from a safetyperspective!
Also I sure couldn´t sit in the sauna for long keeping a look at stuff for hours then. To hot! Would be nice to hear some opinions from some of the pro´s or someone with more experience of heat-treatments.
But It´s alway interesting to speculate and discuss new solutions and approaches JRBTNYC!
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Zilver
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Posted 1 year ago
Sun Jul 10 2011 14:21:09
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Besides, is this the thread you where thinking about where saunas are discussed as a possibility when treating:
http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/traditional-sauna-for-bb-treatment
Remembered I read it, but didn´t think of it straight away as it didn´t gave me any more exact answers on the questions I had on what times that is needed for different things treated.
Still it has lots of usefull and interesting info.
Only I was hoping to get some more thorough and exact answers on temp, time etc , if that´s even possible
Also, just being as paranoid as these little bugs make you, I really wonder if a bedbug could surive hiding on me in those temps? (like 55-60dC...and yes, I know it sounds like a silly question )
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jrbtnyc
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Posted 1 year ago
Mon Jul 11 2011 10:10:21
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Now that it's a weekday again may I bump this to the top in hopes some of the experts will weigh in.
Over the weekend I had checked the bedbugger.com forum tag for «sauna» and there was only one other thread listed.
But now I've discovered I was unknowingly running up against a couple of software/data anomalies (a.k.a. gotchas).
Just now I googled «“bed bug" sauna» and found some bedbugger.com *blog* entries which don't show up on bedbugger.com *forum* tags.
Plus via Google, I found several bedbugger.com *forum* entries about saunas whose tags weren't for «sauna», they were for «bed bug sauna», which is why they didn't show up when I searched the «sauna» tag. (I've now gone to all those threads and added a tag for «sauna».)
So, for anyone interested in reading up on this topic, go to
http://bedbugger.com/category/sauna
http://bedbugger.com/category/bed-bug-sauna
and
http://bedbugger.com/forum/tags/bed-bug-sauna
or
http://bedbugger.com/forum/tags/sauna .It appears this topic has already received a certain amount of serious discussion and that no one has specifically debunked it (is that true?), such that henceforth we should officially now declare saunas to be a valid tool against bed bugs and should make sure we always mention it to *anyone* who, for instance, is planning a move and wants to make sure not to bring any six-legged hitchhikers to their new residences. That obstacle of not having a thermal moving company in a particular town might thus be overcome for most people, no?
If your town doesn't have a company that thermally treats moving vans, but does have half a dozen well-established sauna facilities, and those facilities are going mostly unused during the warm summer months which is when traditionally you're most likely to be moving anyway, this would seem like a major step forward.
Even better, the sauna option may be a *whole lot more affordable* than most thermal moving options are. If someone has a friend with a van, and they have a couple of big strong pals who are willing to help move furniture etc. into and out of the van and into and out of a local sauna, sounds to me as though it might be possible for folks to move bb-free for a surprisingly low cost!
The van used for the move might be subject to infestation by bugs exiting the furniture which could be a concern because the van itself obviously isn't going to go into the sauna (in that respect it's different from thermal movers where the inside of the transport portion of the vehicle itself gets heated), but can't we allay nearly all that concern by placing white sheets in the van and keep checking them for squishables.
* * * *
Now *I* have to go read all those newly-discovered bedbugger.com references about saunas myself, including the ones about the sauna(s) in Vancouver, British Columbia.
After breakfast....
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jrbtnyc
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Posted 1 year ago
Mon Jul 11 2011 10:50:06
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Via another Google search I found a very good forum thread about saunas which had had no tags and to which I've now added a «sauna» tag and a «bed bug sauna» tag:
http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/infrared-sauna .
In particular, see excellent detailed analysis by djames1921, inventor and producer of the PackTite, at
http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/infrared-sauna#post-30867
and
http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/infrared-sauna#post-30988 . -
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Posted 1 year ago
Mon Jul 11 2011 10:58:03
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Hi,
I would strongly suggest that you contact these people:
As with all matter bedbug experience trumps planning and logical thought as bedbugs don't always willingly follow logic.
I seem to recall its one of only two facilities in the world that can do this and the other is not sauna based (although the idea of building one in my warehouse to de-stress have a lot of appeal).
With regards boxes I think you need to think wire cages to allow heat exchange rather than boxes which reduce heat exchange.
Hope that helps.
David Cain
Bed Bugs Limited -
jrbtnyc
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Posted 1 year ago
Mon Jul 11 2011 11:30:42
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bed-bugscouk - 27 minutes ago »
Hi,
I would strongly suggest that you contact these people:
http://www.bchousing.org/resources/Programs/ILBC/technical%20bulletins/29-09-12-15-Heat_Treatment_Room_for_Bed_Bugs.pdf
As with all matter bedbug experience trumps planning and logical thought as bedbugs don't always willingly follow logic.
I seem to recall its one of only two facilities in the world that can do this and the other is not sauna based (although the idea of building one in my warehouse to de-stress have a lot of appeal).
With regards boxes I think you need to think wire cages to allow heat exchange rather than boxes which reduce heat exchange.
Hope that helps.
David Cain
Bed Bugs LimitedBut that seems like a different topic, if I'm understanding you correctly. Building a specialized heating unit in a residential complex will certainly have many challenges. As a separate investigation, why don't we ascertain to what degree we can utilize *existing* sauna facilities, standalone not affiliated with any residential building, for bed bug elimination, where we don't have to build anything new and the overhead costs may already be long-since absorbed by the regular sauna business. For the sauna operators, bed bug elimination might be welcome "gravy", especially if it's most active during the warm months of the year when regular sauna traffic might be light anyway.
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oldtimer
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Posted 1 year ago
Mon Jul 11 2011 11:37:59
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Different topic, hmm I really don't follow your logic there.
The facility uses a sauna heater to decon bedbug, you want to use a sauna and heater to decon bedbugs. Therefore they are the most likely people to help you in working out the feasibility of using a sauna heater inside an existing sauna to decon bedbugs.
You are more likely to get accurate information and data from them than asking others to guess as to this projects feasibility. I am sure most existing sauna owners would also agree and will most likely say show me that it works before putting my sauna at risk.
I could be wrong and sauna owners may be a "shoot from the hip" breed but something tells me that is unlikely.
They might also tell you that its not feasible, i have not heard much internationally about this project working well and if it did I am sure we would have attended at least 2 or 3 presentations about it.
David
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jrbtnyc
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Posted 1 year ago
Mon Jul 11 2011 12:02:11
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Okay so I would have to first read up on all those bedbugger.com sauna discussions which I haven't done yet, so as to familiarize; but this isn't an avenue I'm going to pursue myself as a priority since I'm working on other things; but if others reading this thread are interested, perhaps they can take this and run with it; meanwhile if anyone starts a thread asking how to move without bringing bb's along, I'll point them to this thread so they can at least be aware of this idea.
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buggyinsocal
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Posted 1 year ago
Mon Jul 11 2011 12:31:01
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It appears this topic has already received a certain amount of serious discussion and that no one has specifically debunked it (is that true?), such that henceforth we should officially now declare saunas to be a valid tool against bed bugs and should make sure we always mention it to *anyone* who, for instance, is planning a move and wants to make sure not to bring any six-legged hitchhikers to their new residences.
See, I think this is a dangerous approach in terms of recommending any kind of treatment although this does explain pretty clearly what the differences in how you and I approach solutions to bed bug problems.
I don't think an idea needs an official debunking before we stop recommending it. And saying that is not saying that people who want to experiment, and who have the resources to do so, are welcome to try stuff--so long as their experiments don't run the very real risk of exposing others to bed bugs.
But I do try to differentiate between people who just want their bed bug problem gone (which is frankly most users) and people who want to tinker with new ideas.
I am hesitant to recommend to newbies that they try anything until it's been proven to be effective.
I only recommend to bed bug sufferers ideas that have been proven, first through controlled lab experiments and then in field trials, to be effective and safe.
It's true that no one's proved that saunas don't work, but of course, no one can prove a negative.
I suspect that's why in most fields, the gold standard of proof is repeated results that are reproducible in both controlled laboratory conditions that meet the methodology of the industry and then continue to be effective in field trials. While we cannot prove a negative, we can prove that in test after test, an idea that sounds logical, effective, and otherwise like really good idea turns out not to be as effective in actual field applications as the theory might seem.
Given that I had my apartment treated with thermal and that I bought a Packtite post treatment, I'm clearly a big fan of using heat to kill bed bugs.
That said, my concerns about using a sauna to treat items are pretty much the same as my concerns about trying to do DIY treatment in a car or in a home with heaters:
*Heat treatment is actually way more complicated than it looks.
*Done improperly, heat treatment can have very nasty unintended consequences, including infestations of spots that are particularly hard to treat. If the bugs escaped into the sauna, for example, I'm really not sure how on earth you'd get them out of there. Chemical pesticides degrade at high temps and lose efficiency. Heat treatment of the areas adjacent to the sauna where the bugs would flee to would be pretty tough; I'm imagining them, for example, getting into the cooler spots where the controls are kept, for example.
(If you're not familiar with how heat treatments usually work, you might want to read this thread where I give my probably deeply flawed because I'm a layperson and not a professional and definitely not a scientist's version of how heat treatments generally work.
It's vitally important to understand the issues around the science behind this. I'm not a scientist, so I don't fully understand it, but even I can grasp the basics of it, even if I can't explain it terribly well.)
It's important to remember that a lot of the challenges David James faced when he created the Packtite were around getting the air to circulate properly and creating a container that the bed bugs couldn't escape from when they tried to run away from the heat.
It was hard to engineer those factors into a suitcase sized object; Saunas have not been engineered to be either of those things.
Simply putting fans in the sauna to circulate the air might not work, as many electronic devices shut off at very high temps. And it's important to note that many electronic devices are not designed to operate at very high temps. As a result, the wiring in a fan running in an environment that hot might be in danger or damage that could result in an electrical fire.
Maybe it's not, but I don't know that, and I cannot recommend to other people to try something that might cause a massive fire.
Other reasons that a sauna might not be an effective tool in the war against bed bugs include the following:
*Saunas may not be designed to raise temps at the same rate as is the norm for heat treatment of bed bugs.
*Saunas are a less passive method than trying to heat items up in a car, but because they aren't designed for bed bug treatment, they may not raise temps at a rate that would be effective in getting the bugs out of the insulated spots inside certain items (I'm thinking really upholstered furniture, for example.)
*Putting items inside containers to prevent the bed bugs from spreading may make the items harder to heat up evenly.
I'm not saying that I wouldn't be okay with having methodologically sound lab tests run to see if this works, but I'm not sure access to saunas is really going to be a bed bug solution that is going to help a lot of people, so if research funds are scarce, I'd rather see the lab time devoted to something that's more universally available.
That said, I realize that sauna availability is likely somewhat regional. Maybe in places where they're more common, scientists can pursue that.
I, however, won't be recommending an unproven treatment as a reliable treatment until it's been proven. That doesn't mean that I want to discourage people from experimenting; I just think it's important to keep in mind the potential downsides to experimental treatments, and in this case, that downside not only includes items that aren't debugged the way a bed bug sufferer thinks they are, but also the possibility of infesting a spot that it seems to me would be especially hard to treat.
Especially since the heat room thing linked to up thread has been proven to work.
And, frankly, if I owned a sauna (which, ha, I live in coastal southern California, I won't even be able to afford a condo, let alone a home with a sauna!), I really, really, really wouldn't want to risk infesting it with bed bugs. After all, the last place I'd want to be food for bed bugs is in the sauna. It's bad enough when the bugs feast on our exposed skin while we're asleep in bed. I suspect even bed buggers who prefer to sleep in the nude put some clothes on while they're fighting an infestation. There are a lot of sensitive areas I really don't want those very itchy bites on, all of which have always been more exposed every time I've been in a sauna than they were in my bed while I was fighting bed bugs.
I don't know many people who go into saunas wearing more clothing than they wear to bed while fighting bed bugs. There are a lot of places on my body I'd really prefer not to expose to the bed bugs for biting.
And in the parts of the world where saunas are more common, my general sense is that the people there are less hung up about nudity than your average person from the US, so I think that's extra incentive to avoid a bed bug infestation in or near a sauna.
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jrbtnyc
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Posted 1 year ago
Mon Jul 11 2011 13:16:50
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Hi buggy, these all are worthwhile thoughts, the kind of discussion which can elucidate real-world problems and hopefully lead to progress.
Yes, saunas are not proven to work, so maybe it takes a desperate broke person who absolutely needs to move at rock-bottom cost, and a sauna owner whose regular business hasn't been all that great lately, to go into the experiment with mutual awareness of the possible pitfalls but also of the possible benefits, and report back on bedbugger.com with at least anecdotal information suggesting whether it seems worthwhile for others to try.
One point of yours did perplex me though: no one has to worry about bed bugs biting them in the sauna do they, because any bed bugs in the sauna at way hotter than 120 degrees Fahrenheit (presuming we include that very-easy-to-use vertical fan so the floor isn't a cool zone) aren't biting anybody and never will again, isn't that correct? Maybe there's a locker room next to the sauna we have to frequent and maybe there are now bed bugs in the locker room...but we're *awake*, we can look and see if there are any bed bugs trying to get onto us and if there are, we can prevent them from doing so...can't we?
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Posted 1 year ago
Mon Jul 11 2011 13:29:43
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Jrbtnyc,
Part of what others are trying to point out is that bed bugs in a heated environment will attempt to flee. If they can flee into cracks and crevices in the sauna, they will.
The reason some posts are tagged "bed bug sauna" and some are not is because the Bed Bug Sauna designed by BC Housing and purpose built into a new building was specifically designed to treat bed bugs in infested items, not humans. The temperatures reached may be comparable, but other aspects of design, maybe not so much.
There are links in some of those threads to the actual designs.
A conventional sauna might work if items were carefully controlled so as not to allow bed bugs to escape, and with monitoring of core temperatures of all items. However, there are reasons based on bed bug behavior which mean experimenting with a conventional sauna may pose real risks to the sauna owner and to the objects treated.
The kind of anecdotal evidence you seek would not be worth too much unless enough time had elapsed for one to be sure bed bugs were not somehow introduced into the environment, something people may not notice for some time.
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Zilver
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Posted 1 year ago
Mon Jul 11 2011 15:00:14
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Really nice to see the discussion "heating"´up, hehe, a little in this thread. Thanx mates for taking your time to share!
Still, it took some turns away from my inital thoughts and questions, which of course is fine, and turned out as much to be a discussion on treating stuff in general using a sauna.
Please note , when I started this topic my idea wasn´t to bring big stuff like furnitures, beds etc into the sauna, or to leave them openly exposed on the wooden benches like I saw was an idea someone presented in some of the other thread here on bedbugger.
So, just to clarify. David i.e.x commented on my thought on using plastic-bins/boxes/containers. Well, my reasons for considering them was mainly for safety even though they may not be as efficient and the procedure of heating up stuff may take longer
So David (and you others as well of course) //
Actually my thought was to use these plastic containers for three reasons:1) Before I even put stuff in them like books, I would let them take a bath, sink them in to water. The tapwater here at hottest comes with a temperature of around 50dC /122dF, enough to kill bedbugs in a quick and effective way according to the numbers commonly presented.
2) They are then quite large so I for sure wouldn´t fill them up to the edges with books, kitchenware or whatever I put in there. (My thought is to not have the lid on so hopefully bedbugs in the bugs shouldn´t go up the box as there is more of a hot air over the box.)
3) Since they are with "easy to see through-plastic" my thought was it would be beneficial as it would be easier to keep and eye on and check during treatment. Also I could put some digitaltermomters in to the box/container reading the temps in the middle of the box in the bottom (Which I guess should be the most protected/isolated) and still be able to easily check on the thermometers.
I also wouldn´t jam the sauna with a lot of stuff. ONLY TWO OR THREE CONTAINERS AT THE TIME, MAXIMUM!
My thought was that the if I had decontaminated the box with the hot water-procedure, then my worry would be with what I put in the boxes. Secondly my thinking was then that if it was any bedbugs in that stuff they would initiallly flee down in the box, where it´s initially cooler. This would make them less likely to escape, but sooner or later the heat would reach them in the bottom of the containers/boxes/bins, but then it would be too late to run away.
Still, As you say David, everything isn´t about logic with bedbugs and we can´t always count on that. If it seems like a stupid idea, and it´s a big risk spreading bedbugs I would NEVER do it!!!
But in this case my actual biggest worry would be me, myself, bringing bedbugs with me into the sauna on my clothes etc. Of course I would take every precaution possible, as when going to work, friends etc making that not happen.
Still that leads me to my final question which is interesting anyhow.'
If a bedbug try to hide away on me, Can it survive on me in 55-60dC , as our bodytemp is cooler?I would guess no, and maybe it´s a really silly question. Just made me think and sometimes we think silly thoughts when we worry about bedbugs
Hoping you still can take some time to share your thoughts! Thanx for bumping JRBTNYC! I was really happy to see so many replies coming home today
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oldtimer
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Posted 1 year ago
Mon Jul 11 2011 17:25:42
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Hi,
The only way to work out if it would work is to study these equations and do some very long mathematics:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_conductivity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_conduction#Fourier.27s_law
I appreciate that you are looking for a simple yes or no answer but the answer to this question can only really ever be found by working through the equations or taking tips on what the BC facility have found through experience.
The probability of walking bedbugs into the sauna on your clothes is however low if you take sensible precautions not to get too up close and personal with them in the infected location. It does however take a lot more skill to get people to accurately screen items than most would give credit for. I once trained a girl in London who was very good but had to take a break every 30 minutes to keep her eyesight fresh. She once extracted 3 nymphs from 6,000 sheets of paperwork in about 6 hours.
Good luck with the maths.
David
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Zilver
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Posted 1 year ago
Mon Jul 11 2011 20:23:29
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Actually I´m not really looking for yes or no David! I´m looking for a YES haha
But If I can´t get a definit YES , then I won´t got through with it. Would be pointless asking for expertadvice and not taking it, you know
Actually I´m certain I could manage to get the temps right, I´ve been bathing sauna enough to know things heat up pretty thoroughly and well.
But as you say, the cheking up, the detection-part I´m not sure I have the skills for. Logic tells bedbugs wouldn´t flee upwards towards hotter air, but the little maybe is still an uncertaintyfactor.And the fact as I said is that I hope my new flat is bedbugfree, so this was just as a second step to feel more certain. Mostly beacuase it seems impossible to find any monitiors to buy in the EU and get them shipped to sweden.
So, when you can´t monitor you sort of wanna find ways to treat and doubletreat to be more certain. Maybe paranoid , I know
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your host
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Posted 1 year ago
Mon Jul 11 2011 20:48:01
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Zilver - 23 minutes ago »
Mostly beacuase it seems impossible to find any monitiors to buy in the EU and get them shipped to sweden.
So, when you can´t monitor you sort of wanna find ways to treat and doubletreat to be more certain. Maybe paranoid , I know
David is in London and I am sure his invention the BbAlert Passive, is for sale and being shipped from the EU, if that's helpful.
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Zilver
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Posted 1 year ago
Mon Jul 11 2011 21:03:53
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Didn´t actually realize it was out on the market. Thought it was still in the experimental phase pr something.
Thanx for pointing me to it Nobugsonme!!! Really glad you did! Especially since David is so humble and professional that he hasn´t mentioned it. Following the non-personal advertisement rules for the site/forum I guess.
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oldtimer
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Posted 1 year ago
Tue Jul 12 2011 6:31:55
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Zilver - 9 hours ago »
Especially since David is so humble and professional that he hasn´t mentioned it. Following the non-personal advertisement rules for the site/forum I guess.Yes it was a combination of wanting to keep on track with the sauna issue and my modest wall flower existence
. I cant shout from the roof tops or I would sound like a spammer and there is so much more to participating in a forum like this than gaining a few coins.David
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Zilver
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Posted 1 year ago
Tue Jul 12 2011 7:29:14
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True , true...actually I recommended these forums today to a swedish journalist doing some articles on bedbugs in studentaccomodations! Told her it was a very nice site to get a more info and understanding for the problem. Also included some comments and thoughts.
Let´s see if I get some replies or feedback from her.
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