Got Bed Bugs? Bedbugger Forums » Tools/ideas for fighting bed bugs
Guinea pigs [was: Use Your Pets As Bait To Kill Bedbugs...Garlic To Repel Them]
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god is my dog
newbite
Joined: Jun '12
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Posted 11 months ago
Sat Jun 16 2012 7:13:52
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for those that wanna repel these bastards, use sliced garlic and place them around and on the bedframe.............a sure-fire way to repel them.......
of course, it'll take time before the bastards will leave or starve out...........for those that want a quicker, vengeful way to kill these bugs...........why not use your pets as bait ?
after all, you've been feeding your pets for a long time and it's high time they prove themselves to be useful and repay their owners............
just place the pet on the floor in the infected room in a cage (less the pet try to run off) and then surround the cage with wide swaths of double-side tape...........either that or somehow construct some kind of a ''giant'' Climb Up and isolate the cage..........
either way, the pet is unharmed and after a month............surely, all the bugs and hatched juveniles are killed off........
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oldtimer
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Posted 11 months ago
Sat Jun 16 2012 7:37:28
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Hmmm, I am kind if joking this is meant to be a humorous post, but just in case.
1 garlic may work with vampires but it does not work with bedbugs.
2 in most homes bedbugs will find alternative food sources rather than hang out where they are and starve. This may be mice, pets or other people in other rooms.
3 using a pet that way is not likely to be any more effective than actively trapping out bedbugs which despite extensive testing no one has managed with an advanced infestation. It would be great if they could but we live in a biological world not a mathematical, physics or engineering driven one.
4 The biggest flaw in this one is the fact the pet would need to live in cage for a few months and there is no guarentee that bedbugs will not get past the isolation and thus you could spread the problem around.
You could look at options to decon the pet but I don't think you could get the manufacturer to agree its safe to PackTite a pet, the other products about may or may not say yes and we all know the stories of pets in the microwave and ovens.
As I said I hope this is a humorous post because if not its very bad advice.
David Cain
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oldtimer
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Posted 11 months ago
Sat Jun 16 2012 9:51:27
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The user name suggests humor.... "God is my Dog"
I have a dyslexic dog that thinks he is God... it says so right on the side of his bowl...
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oldtimer
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Posted 11 months ago
Sat Jun 16 2012 10:04:31
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Hmmmm, let's put a different perspective on a few things that includes some practicality:
Garlic & Bed Bugs:
Practically speaking man has been cultivating and using garlic since about when? Recorded history, the Egyptian empires, the Roman empires, the days of Marco Polo, Adam & Eve? WHile I'm not sure exactly when this magical plant was first used as a medicine or flavor enhancement by man it is fair to say that it's been around for a long, long time in a galaxy far away type thing. We all agree right? OK, good. Stay with me.Coinsidentally, bed bugs have been around a long, long time too. Probably equally as long as our friend the garlic plant and it's aromatic, flavorful bulb. Over these many years man has made many attempts and expended much effort to rid himself of bed bugs. Such cures and other things are noted in various references and folklore; oil & kerosene filled buckets placed under bed legs, boiling water, lard, fire, brimstone and a bunch of other stuff have been used in an effort to eliminate bed bugs. And, the Romans mashed up and consumed bed bugs as a snake bite remedy, imagine that.
Now here we are in June 2012 and we need to insert some logic & practicality into the workd of bed bug control by pondering a simple question(s): In all these thousands of years in dealing with bed bugs did it take until now, 2012, for man to actually discover that a viable cure to bed bugs was right there under our collective culinary nose? Could man, given all the effort from the past combined with the thousands of R&D type researchers seeking a bed bug cure, have simply missed that garlic was the answer to the bed bug problem? Hmmm, I'll let each of you draw you're own conclusions here. HOWEVER, and as long as I'm ranting about "this subject matter" please consider the following as well; with so many research scientists and formulation chemist working to discover the best bed bug cures is it plausible to think that companies such as Bayer, BASF, Sumitomo, MGK, FMC, Syngenta, Dow and others have simply missed the magical bed bug efficacy properties recently revealed
but heretofor and otherwise hidden in such unique items as soy bean oil, enzymes, cedar oil, clove oil, garlic, thyme and other such stuff? Simply stated, if this stuff worked well we'd have known about it years if not centuries ago.While over the years garlic has certainly become a friend of man, if you bring this earthen jewel as your ally to a bed bug fight it may improve your odor but you'll be fighting alone.
Have a nice day ! paul b.
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god is my dog
newbite
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Posted 11 months ago
Sun Jun 17 2012 1:08:56
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i wasn't joking about using pets as bait.......................of course not your beloved dog or cat but a hamster, etc will do...................
garlic works since a friend of mine got rid of the little farkers in 2 rooms with nothing but garlic slices placed on bedframe and under mattress........................and still use garlic to repel the bugs.
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oldtimer
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Posted 11 months ago
Sun Jun 17 2012 8:40:36
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Maybe someone should set up a hire or loan service to rent out pets for such an application, I can't image that the humane society would not be in complete support of this concept, PETA may also want to be considered for endorsement, when you have their approval I will happily give you some seed funding to get this one off the group. If they don't support it we could always use homeless people as a fall back option.
Having had to deal with the mess in people's homes when they have attempted to repel bedbugs with garlic, rosemary, nut meg, ground nut shell, fern and various other plant materials I can only suggest that you set up a trial, do a controlled study and present your data.
Unfortunatly uncertified stories of what people's friends, friends auntie Maud from the old country once did fall far short of what is required to declare a universal solution to bedbugs.
Often the stress and lack of sleep associated with bedbugs can result in people loosing scientific focus at times. I hope you resolve your infestation soon enough to realise the major flaws in this approach.
David
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oldtimer
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Posted 11 months ago
Sun Jun 17 2012 8:46:08
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While it may be possible to use other mammals to attract bed bugs you need to realize that this has been tried and researched before by a number of individuals.
Absent of a competing host it is possible that a hamster, gerbil, mouse or lab rat may attract bed bugs however, larger mammals such as humans will out compete/out attract your rodent pets for a number of reasons including, but possibly not limited to: a) The quantity of CO2 expelled is relative to the respiration rate and size of the individual animal, b) The heat signature/aura given off by the animal is directly proportionate to the animal's size, & c) The preference of the bed bug for specific hosts. And, by the way, if you're going to try this animal thing, I suggest you use a chicken as it is documented that bed bugs do well feeding on chickens and, in fact, one of the most highly infested locations documented in the literature was an organic poultry house in the NE where "zillions" of bed bugs were found (but no garlic).
While garlic may be working for your friend, unless your friend is a qualified researcher with suitable replicated trials that prove it actually works you will continue to garner the skepticism of those of us who work with bed bugs on a professional basis.
And, it kinda-sorta reminds me of the Elephant Watoosi methodology as follows: Each morning for several weeks whilst retrieving the morning paper I observed my neighbor Scott dancing the watoosi on his driveway. Over time my curiousity got the better of me so I inquired as to what he was doing. He responded: "If I dance the watoosi each morning it keeps elephants from trampling my tomato gardern". Upon hearing this I replied Scott, there are no elephants for 8,000 miles and he said, "See, it works!"
Now just for fun, I will be videoing bed bugs within my jars crawling all over the garlic and, even after using a high magnification lens we won't see any of them so much as "holding their nose" (that is if they could hold their nose, which they can't as bugs have spiracles through which they respire and not noses as we humans do).
Over the years I've observed what I refer to as "The Bull Durham Concept". If you haven't seen this movie or understand baseball you may not understand the reference. At some point in the movie Crash (ie Kevin Costner's character) comments something like ". . . if he thinks he's batting 500 cause he's wearing lady's underwear then he probably is . . ." So, if you think that something is working for you then maybe it is.
paul b.
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oldtimer
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Posted 11 months ago
Sun Jun 17 2012 8:59:24
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Paul,
Please can you confirm that this poultry house in the NE was not manufacturing chicken Keiv?
David
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oldtimer
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Posted 11 months ago
Sun Jun 17 2012 9:17:18
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Hey David,
Crap, now I have to search for that poultry house deal information. In the photos of this place the dead bed bugs appeared like drifted snow along the floor-wall juncture. Dr. Frishman and Joe Barile included this "field case history" in their bed bug presentations during the Innovations in Pest Management seminar series of meetings a few years ago. i think you can find it via online search as well.
On another subject, I was searching the sniffer and the related information from popsci online. I can't wait to try this one out.
Happy Father's Day to all ! pb
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your host
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Posted 11 months ago
Sun Jun 17 2012 14:33:57
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Happy Fathers' Day to all, and that includes you, Paul!
I think you should make a video of yourself dancing the bed bug Watoosi.
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oldtimer
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Posted 11 months ago
Sun Jun 17 2012 16:57:58
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Thanks much !
BTW, that was my neighbor Scott doing the dancing and I'm not even sure how to spell watoosi either !
Best wishes to all ! ! ! pb
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oldtimer
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Posted 11 months ago
Sun Jun 17 2012 17:19:03
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I have only one thing to add;
Whoe's the daddy?
David
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oldtimer
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Posted 11 months ago
Sun Jun 17 2012 18:01:55
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I have documentation and video of that chicken farm if my memory is correct. At that time I was learning the chicken dance to provide better IPM but I'm going to look into this elephant thing. Just sounds like the right thing to do. I'm also working on my garlic necklace so I'll post my results ASAP.
I'm just wondering of the EVOO would also help in some cases.
Forgive typos on the phone... Yeah I'm working on Fathers Day
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oldtimer
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Posted 11 months ago
Sun Jun 17 2012 21:57:23
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That would be cool to see the video KQ !
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Michigan Man
newbite
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Posted 8 months ago
Sat Aug 25 2012 19:24:47
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I own a hotel. Our biggest problem in treating BB's is that they will go dorment in a vacant room. We are going to use a caged guinea pig with legs on the cage protected by climbout interceptors. We will than dust the floor around the perimeter of the cage. This should attract and kill the bugs while keeping them from going dorment.
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your host
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Posted 8 months ago
Sat Aug 25 2012 19:58:29
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Even if your method doesn't mean the bugs actually bite the animals, Michigan Man, active bed bug monitors might be a better choice. There's some smell involved with guinea pigs and aren't some customers allergic?
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Michigan Man
newbite
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Posted 8 months ago
Sun Aug 26 2012 21:13:46
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Chemicals and bed bugs also have undesireable odors. I think the odor could be overcome. The Guinea pig would never leave his cage. I don't think after cleaning the room very many people would have a allergic reaction. Would a monitor keep the BB's from going dorment?
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theyareoutthere
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Posted 8 months ago
Sun Aug 26 2012 21:22:16
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Look at the bedbug beacon or other CO2 attractants. They have to be pretty hungry to flush. Hotels in Europe use the Passive to catch them early (I'm sure hotels here do too and I just don't know it).
My allergies are such that I would still be sick after a cleaning. It gets into the carpet padding, corners of drawers, etc. Also, and this happened when I was in college, what if the gerbil escapes. You have to clean the cage sometime, right? I'd rather have a bedbug beacon running than a gerbil....(we had the gerbil illegally and that little sucker could run on those short legs...in another sad case, a hamster was almost killed when he escaped and run into the girl's restroom on a busy Friday night).
I don't know if that's your actual picture, but I wouldn't have too many identifying factors on this site if I were in the industry. Good luck!!!
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theyareoutthere
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Posted 8 months ago
Sun Aug 26 2012 21:24:13
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Pardon me, they have to be hungry to react to a CO2 flushing agent. I was trying to do history edit and it wouldn't work. Good luck!
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your host
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Posted 8 months ago
Mon Aug 27 2012 3:16:02
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My understanding is a Bed Bug Beacon emits CO2 that would attract them in an empty room (when hungry of course). I am talking about ACTIVE bed bug monitors, not passive ones, though many hotels use those as well. This is our FAQ on the Bed Bug Beacon. It's refillable so if you use it over and over the costs are reduced over the initial outlay.
Kids keeping guinea pigs are pets to dote on is one thing but I don't think it's very humane keeping an animal caged for this sole purpose. Not when there are alternatives.
How long are your rooms typically unoccupied?
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oldtimer
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Posted 8 months ago
Mon Aug 27 2012 8:16:48
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Hi,
In essence what you are currently doing with your hotel is reacting to issue and therefore they are larger, more diffused and harder to deal with than something that can be quickly and easily dealt with.
In contrast if you invest the time and small annual sums to get Pro-Active you can fix issues in as little as 30 minutes without the use of chemicals, would out room closures and within the need to replace furniture.
How much does this cost? Well about 30 seconds per bed once a week and 5 cent per night per bed.
Given the fact that your customers greatest concern is bedbugs I have to wonder why the industry is being slow to adopt this sensible and cost effective approach.
If you are interested in understanding more PM me but please stop with the guinea pig torturing as its not socially or morally acceptable and having had to deal with infected guinea pig cages in occupied rooms let alone unoccupied I can assure you it's a piece of logic that is flawed and likeso much in bedbugs you only know why through experience and learning from the mistakes of others.
David
In accordance with the AUP and FTC I openly disclose My vested interest in Passive Monitors and Pro-Active systems as the inventor and patent holder.
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theyareoutthere
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Posted 8 months ago
Mon Aug 27 2012 12:56:00
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David is an expert. I'm not. But, I did look up where BBs infested hamster cages (since I didn't know about that). The interceptors may stop them from getting to the gerbil cage, but they are pretty quick and the people checking the cage may get bites. It also sounds a bit cruel (i guess you could have two).
The other thing is gerbils and other rodents can have mites.
I'm from the Northern Great Lakes area. It is not uncommon to have small hotels (even as small as 5 units on 2 stories) where the only time it is busy is during the summer and if it is a winter with good snow for trekking, snow mobiling, etc. It seems like a bed bug beacon and passives would be a good idea to research.
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London_Bug
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Posted 8 months ago
Tue Sep 18 2012 17:27:10
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Strange though it may sound, I think this idea may have a kernel of logic in it. We, as a species, have been fighting bed bugs for centuries, and I wonder if some of our old sleeping technology, such as four poster beds, were actually designed with the purpose of keeping the little bloodsuckers out.
If you isolated yourself in a four poster, with the drapes sealed up all around you, so they couldn't get in, and the canopy over the top so they can't do the ceiling sky-diving routine, while at the same time getting man's best friend to sleep at the foot of your bed, well, surely the bugs are gonna bite mutt rather than you?
I know it sounds horrible, but when needs must the devil drives etc etc, and in the case of bb's Satan has the pedal to the metal....
[Oh, and before you consider me a complete monster, this was only a thought, I don't have a dog, (yet <g>), and it would be complimentary to the ongoing eradication war. What you might call a "remedial action" taken through necessity after spending months unable to switch the light off at night in fear of these creeping vampire insects]
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oldtimer
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Posted 8 months ago
Tue Sep 18 2012 20:54:54
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The drapes are just going to provide a good refuge for bed bugs... the concept of a canopy bed is seriously flawed and highly unlikely to be successful.
Providing a live animal is just going to ensure that the bed bugs have a source of blood meals which will allow them to continue to reproduce at an optimal rate... One of the goals of isolation is to deny the bed bugs a source of blood meals which are required for BB reproduction and development.
The abuse of a captive live animal for this purpose is despicable.
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your host
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Posted 8 months ago
Wed Sep 19 2012 1:55:50
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I feel it's wrong, but leaving that aside for the moment, I also don't think it would work.
The canopy, by your description, seems like a variation on the mosquito net, yes? Mosquito nets on beds work because mosquitos don't crawl. They don't work for bed bugs, however. You'd need something fully enclosed.
I have actually seen marks which I believed to be really old fecal stains on furniture in historical homes in Europe. The rich and famous had them too. I suspect they probably benefitted much more from staff who could brush and clean their beds daily, rather than the design of the furniture itself.
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oldtimer
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Posted 8 months ago
Wed Sep 19 2012 5:12:27
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The only merit to this concept is in the historical reference that "Gentlemen always traveled with a pig". The well healed of coaching days would travel with a piglet which was tied in the bed while they ate super. The availability of food meant that hungry bedbugs would gorge on pig rather than human.
I have tested one of the bed tent based products and have found good uses in some situations but it is not a universally implement(ed/able) solution by any means.
One of the key issues for me with this thread is that its just trying to fight one the wrong battle field, in fact I am getting rather board of the years and years of treatment crisis debate when the reality is that to fight on this ground is to already admit you have lost the first few battles in the war.
I think you will also find there are rules and regulations that govern the number of bedbugs that can be fed on an animal, I have looked into it to save my own forearms and the figure of 20 per week on a rabbit comes to mind. Therefore you may need to have 4+ dogs in your room to comply with UK legislation and surely after a few weeks it would have been cheaper in pet food bills to get the job done correctly the first time around?
David
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Koebner
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Posted 8 months ago
Wed Sep 19 2012 7:06:30
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London:
1) You mean "complementary" as in "an adjunct to" not "complimentary as in "flattering".
2) If you'd read more about bed bugs, you'd know this companion animal revenant has been rightly kicked to death time & again as a notion, here, & elsewhere.Canopy beds were developed in the period before ceilings, corridors, & multiple bedrooms were features of domestic life. They provided a measure of privacy at a time when servants & other family members routinely shared a bedroom with the head of the household & spouse. At a entirely practical level, the canopy & drapes protected the occupant from draughts, & crucially, from rodents & their feces falling from the thatch above.
I've slept in an uncanopied bed in an ancient house & have experienced the joy of waking with a rodent in my bed, of having rodents fall into my hair, & the gentle sift of rodent droppings from above.
When canopy beds were developed, beds themselves were luxury items beyond the reach of most people, & canopy beds were the preserve of the wealthy due to the enormous relative cost of their construction & hangings. Canopy beds remained a symbol of wealth long after their functional purpose had been lost; the drapes of many 19th century canopy beds are purely decorative & do not close, this despite the very high prevalence of bed bugs in that period.
Whilst protecting the occupants from draughts & mammals, the drapes & canopy made dealing with fleas, lice, & bed bugs all the harder.
Read any domestic manual from earliest times until the mid-20th century & you will find one desperate attempt after another to control bed bugs. The only true methods of control available were expert inspection & regular, scrupulous cleaning. This stuff doesn't even require research, just sofa-surfing, & has been covered recently in the BBC The Victorian Farm living history series, & its earlier period versions, as well as in Dr Lucy Worsley's BBC4 series on the history of the home.
As Doug says, draped beds are the absolute inverse of what is needed.
You may not know, but we already have the Bed Bug Beacon, designed to mimic as closely as possible the attractant properties of the human. Of course the Beacon also has the practical advantages of not needing to be fed, watered, exercised, nor vaccinated, & not being covered by the legislation you can find here; http://www.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-pets/pets/cruelty/ here; http://www.defra.gov.uk/food-farm/animals/welfare/on-farm/legislation/ or here; http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/science-research/animal-research/.
I know you're new, London, but seriously, do more reading before flying zombie kites like this. We have working wheels - there's no need to bang on about the possible applications of square ones.
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