They can't live long without any oxygen/air (correct?) so...theoretically(16 posts)
If you put a 26" Flat TV -
in a XX large zip bag, getting out all the air. Then put duct tape around the opening to ensure it remains air tight. Made sure there were no holes or anything. No pesticide strip or anything, just no air. Then just left it like that for 2-3 weeks. Shouldn't that kill/suffocate anything that could possibly be living in there?
Would one of those space bags be better for this? Little concerned about using the hose from the same vacuum I have been using on the floor.
Just still searching for options/ways to save my TV and a couple other small electronic items. No indication they are infested but have been in the same area I sleep and close to the fireplace and out in the open when in use.
Shouldn't that kill/suffocate anything that could possibly be living in there?
No, not reliably. At least, not when it comes to bed bugs.
One of the PCOs or entomologists can probably explain why, but bugs require very little air. In addition, we know that bed bugs can slow down their metabolisms.
You might be better off using a bag and putting a DDVP strip in there if you can make sure that the bag stays completely air tight. (I would suggest doing that kind of treatment outside rather than inside if at all possible. I also wouldn't recommend doing the treatment inside at all if you've got pets or small children that will puncture the plastic bag.)
Thanks buggyinsocal. I probably should've dug a bit deeper into the forums because I found a couple topics that covered my initial idea.
I will probably have to go the way with the strip on these items then. I would have to leave it out on my balcony (kitty inside and no other storage option). I have read differing opinions on this method and am a bit scared of using something so potent. But I have to be sure if I am going to keep and move these things with me. I will probably do my thing of putting the items in a contractor bag with the strip, zip tie that, then immediately put that the XXL Hefty zip bag. Then put the Hefty bag in a plastic tote to protect it against the elements.
Many questions about the strips though.
Would 1 whole strip be too strong for just 5-7 items (at most)? Can you cut them or find small ones for this purpose?
How long do I let it treat then air out?
There has to be enough air and space inside for the strip to permeate through everything right? In that case perhaps I should do the TV separate from the other small things?
I thought I read somewhere that the strips could possibly damage electronics?
I only used DDVP strips on CDs and DVDs that couldn't be in the apartment for thermal treatment, so I can't speak to the corrosion of electronics. I have, like you, read some threads that hypothesize that that's a possibility. I've also seen posts that suggest that if the time is limited, that shouldn't happen.
(If I recall correctly, we're talking about 2 to 3 weeks being the max time before you start to see corrosion, but I can't recall for sure or who said that.)
One PCO says that using strips this way is not an off label usage. I've also seen one post also by a professional who said that he doubted the air would circulate enough to make the fumigant effective--at least in a sealed container.
I put one strip each in fairly large Rubbermaid bins. I didn't want to cut the strips up because I tried to minimize my physical contact with them.
I'm not sure I'd call DDVP potent. It's not really about concentration, I don't think. I think it's more that it's a class of pesticides that we don't really use much. What's "potent" about it is that it's a gas, not a liquid that must dry, and I get the sense that given the physiology of the bugs, that makes them more susceptible to it. (Or, at least, that's my layperson's guess.)
The thing is that since it's a gas, and since gases are hard to contain, people need to be careful about how and where they use it.
As for how long, huh, I'm not sure I ever read anything about that. I can tell you what I did, but that doesn't mean I did it right.
I would open each bin and let it sit outside for as long as it took me to take the other bin that had been sitting there over to clean the outside off, haul it upstairs, and unload its contents inside.
So I would guess 20 to 30 minutes per bin.
If any of the PCOs want to weigh in on whether the gas is heavier or lighter than air or how long a container of a particular size should be aired, maybe you can get a more reliable and more specific answer.
A cunning plan indeed but sadly not a novel one.
The issue is that unless you can create a vacuum inside the bag you may remove a lot of the air from around the outside of the item but you are not going to remove the air that is effectively held in the bag inside the appliances.
This air trapped in side the frame of the TV is enough to sustain life for a bedbug for a long time and they are only likely to die through old age or development slow down. Fear not I was speaking to a gentleman on this subject a few days ago and we may have a bright idea. Seal it for now so that nothing can get out and once we have tested the theory a few times we can let you know if it will work.
The only current effective sealing bag processes that work are DDVP stripes if they are available in your location or Vikane gas fumigation, also if available.
Hope that helps.
David CainIn accordance with the AUP and FTC (legal requirements) I openly disclose my vested interest in Passive Monitors as the inventor and patent holder. Since 2009 they have become an integral part in how we resolve bedbug infestations in domestic and commercial settings. The patent numbers are GB2463953 and GB2470307.
"Open minds find faster solutions"
"Astral Entomologist - because so many people say my ideas are out of this world"
bed-bugscouk - 10 hours ago »
Fear not I was speaking to a gentleman on this subject a few days ago and we may have a bright idea. Seal it for now so that nothing can get out and once we have tested the theory a few times we can let you know if it will work.
Hope that helps.
Thank you - David - you rock. Please let us know how this turns out!!
well, I throw a piece of cedar and a bed bug in a fairly sealable glass container. After 12 hours the bug had little energy when I opened it up and took a look at him, that night wasn't fairing so well. Again I opened the container. Tonight (48hours later) he's dead. So two things thinking here, either a lack of oxygen is potent or cedar (fencing or deck material) has something in it that helps knock them down a little in reduced oxygen.
While cedar oil is often used as a less toxic, more natural tool in fighting other pests, I'm not sure your experiment proves that cedar is of much use against bed bugs.
I applaud your efforts to find an efficient and affordable solution to bed bugs. Sadly, the cedar one has already been the subject of a lot of experimentation, and, unfortunately, so far there's nothing reliable on cedar being effective on its own.
It's possible that the cedar had some effect on the bug. But it's also possible you caught a bed bug close to death. Is this a bug that was collected from a residence that was already being treated for bed bugs?
Chances are it's not limited oxygen. Since the bugs are small, they need a lot less oxygen than we do--so little that trying to suffocate them doesn't work.
It's also important to remember that when removed from a food source, bed bugs can drop their metabolisms, allowing them to survive without even as much food and air as they normally need.
I agree that cedar (please not these are chunks of wood not oil) on it's own might weaken the bed bug and best and in duration may cause serious harm, but it's gradual at best. I found two more and through them and double checked to see if some air was getting in, minimal but not air tight. One of the bugs last 24 hours, I figure he was moulting or just moulted due to the light colour in some areas of his shell. The other guy well he some how got smooshed, which surprises considering how hard they can be to pinch. BUt maybe he was had a soft shell state too. But he did last longer than 24 hours. Outside of a ventilated environment the cedar is definitely not as effective and it definitely is not a repellant.
Even a long stay under water doesn't kill insects. It needs multiple weeks, maybe months, to drown them, while it also depends on the temperature. I once considered to fight a beetle (weevil) plague that way, but the method would have killed the plants even faster. Finally imidacloprid applied to the soil made an end to the long lasting plague, still don't know how. But the insecticide does nothing against bed bugs, not even a high dose. Only a few dead bed bugs, probably the very weak ones. Sigh. It seems only a matter of time until they win.
Best thing is to either heat cold -30C or heat +70C for duration or the other method is to starve.
Keep important items in plastic bags and then do not open for up to 2 years.
A method that is similar to your oxygen removal is pumping in carbon dioxide into a sealed room. But too complex for the average person.
The old school 1950 method was to put potassium cyanide into a saucer of acid and the fumes would kill the bed bugs. But illegal now I think?
But a good attempt to think out side the box.
A partial vacuum in a scientific cylinder may work too.
Rather just seal up for two years or discard.
little bugger - 3 days ago »
Best thing is to either heat cold -30C or heat +70C for duration or the other method is to starve.
70C = 158F
I am not an expert but this is MUCH higher than the temperature needed to kill bed bugs, in my understanding. And since higher heat is more likely to damage your stuff, this may not be a good idea.I started and run the site but am "not an expert."
If you research books related to museum conservation/preservation you'll find many how-to's and in depth articles on the use of anoxia in the control or elimination of pests using oxygen scavengers and warning against the corrosive effects of dichlorvos on metals, particularly soldered joins. I'm sorry I tried to quickly find a few for you but am too tired to go too far in research right now but if you google "museum conservation dichlorvos anoxia metals" or something like that you'll soon find a relevant trail to follow. I remember finding several a few years ago. Also, remember that the standards for museum conservation for anything far exceed the expected lifespan of most of our contemporary electronics (unfortunately!), but the advice will be excellent and well researched.
Try starting here: http://www.museumpests.net/default.asp They may not be talking bed bugs but we could learn a lot from their methods of air sealing, etc.
Hope something proves useful for you.
Unless things have changed very recently, conservation work has different target pests with different susceptibilities. Bed bugs don't attack wood, textiles, etc, & as such haven't really been much considered as a conservation issue. They are exceptionally hardy, though & are able to survive many of the tools used against other pests.
I'm not theorizing on their ability to survive without air, I'd assumed people had already been researching that, I know nothing about it. Just saying that sealing something in an anoxic environment or with a dichlorvos strip is done often & professionally by these people and we can look to them for materials & methods in this regard rather than attempting to "reinvent the wheel" as it were. Type of bug is irrelevant.
To date all oxygen depletion and replacement experiments I have conducted with bedbugs have failed to produce satisfactory results. I can see why others have declared early successes but there is something about the survival abilities of bedbugs that means they can still wake up a few days later.
If you search for zombie bedbugs on the forum you will see some of what I am talking about.
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