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Thermapure Heat vs Temp-Air - which method is best?

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  1. 123bugs

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Sun Oct 3 2010 23:58:23
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    Looking for information or opinions as to whether the heat treatment method used by Thermapure is better, or the Temp-Air method. I have access to either where I live.

    My understanding, or opinions I have heard (may or may not be correct):

    Thermapure
    -heat air outside the structure using propane, pump it into the home with big ducts (fans to blow air, sensors to monitor temperatures)
    -some people comment that this is not safe
    -some people comment that this method results in more damage to furniture, etc
    -some people comment that pumping the air in from outside results in moisture (Thermapure says that is not true)
    -only give 30 day guarantee

    Temp-Air
    -heat air inside the home, using electric heaters (fans to blow air, sensors to monitor temperatures)
    -some people comment that itis a bit more neighborhood friendly (ie less embarassing) - run electric cords into the house, not big ducts
    some people comment that the heaters do not have enough btu's to heat inside the exterior walls and some bedbugs could survive
    -give 60 day guarantee

    Thanks!

    P.S. Hoping to get information as to which METHOD is better via this thread - there is another thread re Thermapure's policies regarding their patents if anyone is interested in that topic.........

  2. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Mon Oct 4 2010 0:26:44
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    It's a really good question.

    One thing to be aware of -- and you've probably already thought of this -- is that readers who have an opinion on this probably fall into two groups:

    1) People who used a ThermaPure or Temp-Air provider and may be biased for or against the system they used (but these biases are based on the experience of one particular service provider).

    2) People who are in the business of killing bed bugs with heat or thermal methods. They will probably have a bias towards one or the other, and this may simply be because they use that method. Or they may use neither of these and be biased against both.

    I hope everyone who offers an opinion will make their position/bias on this topic really clear.

    I started and run the site but am "not an expert."
  3. labugman

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Mon Oct 4 2010 10:42:58
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    Good points and certainly almost any question or answer is going to come with some bias, but facts are facts. Unless I hear to the contrary, Thermapure leads the pack in burning down houses. Thermapure was sued for burning down a house, they denied they were responsible and the homeowner had to sue. The fire was so extensive that not only did the house burn to the ground the fire spread to the and lawn shrubs. This is a fact and can be researched.

    Using propane fired heaters will add moisture to the process. In spite of the denial by Thermapure, the fact that direct fired propane heaters will introduce large quantities of water as a combustion byproduct is a scientific fact. A typical Thermapure project will add more that 5 gal of water to the indoor air every hour. Secondly the outlet temperature of a propane fired heater is in excess of 300 degrees F. Carpets and floors that are in direct contact with a duct pushing through 300 degree heat can easily be ruined. Manufacturers of vinyl windows provide information that high heat ( in excess of 140 fahrenheit) will warp the windows. There is no doubt that the Thermapure method of reaching the necessary temperatures to kill bed bugs as spelled out in the expired Forbes patent is dangerous to the property and the technician.

    Using individual electric heaters is more expensive for the contractor because the equipment is far more expensive and time consuming to set up. The safety comparison between the Thermapure method and the methods that use individual electric heaters is obvious.

    The data and study as well as the extensive trial and error by Charles Forbes the inventor of the process to kill bed bugs with heat is conclusive. How the property is heated is the difference.

  4. toledo

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Mon Oct 4 2010 12:12:05
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    labugman....Is there any affiliation you should be disclosing to us? What is YOUR experience?

  5. labugman

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Mon Oct 4 2010 14:17:21
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    Holy Toledo,

    I have no affiliations. And I am a believer in killing bed bugs with heat.

    I am certain that beyond the companies we mentioned here there are other manufacturers of portable heating devices. I have not seen any method as careless and dangerous as the method boasted about by Thermapure on their video at this site. Thermapure could use the individual electric heaters but for some reason, I suppose costs, they insist on a method that is dangerous to everyone involved.

    Thermapure or any other company using direct fired, open flame heat as a means of reaching necessary temperatures are exposing their technicians and the property of their clients to inexcusable risks. There are far safer methods to achieve the same goal without nearly the same amount of risk. If you want to do your homework I am sure you can find a dozen or more manufacturers of safe and reliable products to achieve the goals. I don't have a preference to any manufacturer.

    I know there are other methods available to get a structure to the necessary "kill" temperatures. Raising the temperature of a structure is skilled labor and requires training, and proper equipment. This is a great business opportunity for this industry and I encourage PCOs to get involved, just be smart about it and you don't need to buy a license. Most of the manufacturers will train you and there a billions of bed bugs waiting to be toasted. Go get them.

    What I am aware of is the financial wreckage of businesses and personal lives of honest people that have walked into the Thermapure web. I am not your daddy, but you can't say you weren't warned.

  6. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Mon Oct 4 2010 16:15:32
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    labugman - 1 hour ago  » 
    Holy Toledo,
    I have no affiliations. And I am a believer in killing bed bugs with heat.

    Sorry, labugman. You clearly have a strong bias against one firm. Saying a little more about why you have it would help. Otherwise, you come across as someone on the warpath against a particular firm.

    Also, linking to the evidence you refer to is a good idea. That way people can make up their own minds.

  7. Firedragon

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Mon Oct 4 2010 19:35:41
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    Our firm uses the Thermpure system (which utilizes both propane and electrical systems). To be honest we have been very successful and have had no problems with The licensor. We currently work in a metropolitan area where we rely heavly on the electrical system which (Labugman has not mentioned)which works great as long as you have the power. We use the direct fired heaters as well and have had no problems with that method either.

  8. labugman

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Mon Oct 4 2010 20:03:39
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    Hi Fire Dragon,

    If you read my posts I said I prefer the electric units because they are safer. The propane fired heaters are dangerous for many reasons including damaging materials and contents. The idea is so foolish I doubt that your insurance company has any idea what you are doing and if they did they would cancel your policy.

    So far as you being a licensee of Thermapure I wish you luck, you will eventually need it. I have a question as to why you are paying a license fee for a patent that is in the public domain?

  9. kannon_bosatsu

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Mon Oct 4 2010 20:14:58
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    The idea is so foolish I doubt that your insurance company has any idea what you are doing and if they did they would cancel your policy.
    So far as you being a licensee of Thermapure I wish you luck, you will eventually need it. I have a question as to why you are paying a license fee for a patent that is in the public domain?

    Labugman, you are really not adding anything to the conversation here. If you want to argue about patents and such, perhaps you should do that in the thread you originally started.

    The OP was looking for advice and you are derailing every post on this subject with your own personal vendetta.

  10. Firedragon

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Mon Oct 4 2010 20:48:56
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    Like I said Labugman, When the propane system is used properly by trained technicians it is safe. We have done quite a few jobs with no problems. Why are you so sour on ThermaPure? I speak with several Licencees and I have not heard them complain either.

  11. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Mon Oct 4 2010 23:26:18
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    Yes, per kannon_bosatsu's comment, labugman, please take the licensing conversation to this thread. Please do not turn every conversation into one about licensing. Firedragon, your input on that licensing thread is welcomed too.

  12. labugman

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Tue Oct 5 2010 10:55:54
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    Fair enough. The fact is that using direct fired propane heaters to raise the temperature of a structure is inexpensive, dangerous and has a significantly higher likelihood of doing damage including catastrophic damage. So if there is a choice of which method to use I recommend the use of individual electric heaters. I have no preference to the manufacturer because there are many.

    It is my opinion that any one considering heat treatment for bed bugs hire only contractors that use the individual electric heat units. These units are safer, easier to control the temperatures and have many safety overrides.

  13. 123bugs

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Tue Oct 5 2010 21:41:12
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    Thanks for the comments everyone.

    I will take the possible differences in safety that may be inherent in the type of system used into account when making a choice.

    Any other comments, opinions, or information on the differences between the methods, please?

  14. elias2000

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Oct 8 2010 16:24:49
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    Since ThermaPure is currently suing Temp-Air for patent infringement (of which I’m guessing the original poster is already well aware), I can’t go into great detail about the Temp-Air products or any in-depth comparisons.

    What I can tell you is that several of the statements made about ThermaPure are (intentionally or otherwise) not accurate and here’s why:
    1. The ThermaPure technology can be delivered using electric heaters, direct-fired heaters, or indirect fired heaters.
    2. ThermaPure licensees have successfully treated well over 100,000 projects without damage.
    3. ThermaPure licensees in North America establish their own guarantees. However, all of the companies delivering ThermaPureHeat either have bed bug-sniffing dogs to verify a 100% kill after the treatment, or have access to an independent K-9 detection service that will be happy to confirm the kill.
    4. ThermaPure’s most recent patent combines silica-based desiccants with heat to provide a perimeter barrier for those structures where there is migration between connected rooms, such as in apartment buildings, hotels, student dorms and the like.
    5. ThermaPure has established an effective protocol so that tenants and property owners do not take bed bugs out of the habitation in their purses, backpacks, briefcases, clothing, etc. in order to prevent a re-infestation once the occupants return.
    6. The temperatures used for bed bug eradication in structures are between 120F and 150F. Wood destroying insects found in wood inside of walls require temperatures between 140F and 180F. Each of these temperature ranges can be delivered to occupied structures without any damage.

    7. The reference to a fire caused by the ThermaPure process is inaccurate. In 2002, according to fire department investigators, an external source touched off a grass fire that spread to home being treated by ThermaPure. The ThermaPure equipment was not the source of the fire.

    8. We license ThermaPure technology -- a carefully developed technology – as well as the training, know-how, marketing support and ongoing technical support to approximately 50 licensees in the US and Canada. We provide our licensees options on heating equipment from different manufacturers – both propane-fired and electrical – along with fans, filtration, digital or wireless temperature probes, and a variety of other important, equipment and materials. Our licensees receive at least one week of hands-on field, and classroom training at our corporate headquarters, (plus field support) in order to be certified to deploy the ThermaPureHeat process
    9. Our licensees often use electrical heaters to do smaller jobs, such as heating hotel rooms and dorm rooms and to supplement propane-fired heaters as appropriately needed. In order to treat a single family residence of 3,000 to 4,000 square feet a technician will need about 4 million BTU’s of energy. Most of the electrical heating systems for insect eradication do not have the BTU capacity to treat that size of a structure. Treatment of 2,000 square foot apartments, townhomes and smaller can be achieved with the specialized electrical heaters designed and engineered by ThermaPure in conjunction with a heater manufacturer
    10. Not sure where you got you information about furniture damage, etc., but it’s simply not true. When properly applied by ThermaPure-trained technicians, propane-fired heaters, used in combination with fans, thermal blankets and filtration are extremely safe. Anyone who truly knows the heaters understands that there are Rego valve controls, which adjust the output temperature to safe (both for the contents and the employees) and effective levels. Anyone who would argue differently is sadly or intentionally mistaken, or perhaps has some kind of personal axe to grind.
    10. The combination of heaters and properly placed fans brings negligible additional moisture into the structure.
    11. Many of the world’s largest and respected pest and environmental companies are ThermaPure licensees – for good reason. And that list continues to grow. Stay tuned.

    While you choose to hide behind an alias in order to provide intentionally inaccurate information I’m happy and proud to publicly identify myself and provide the truth. My name is Alan Elias and I work on behalf of ThermaPure.

  15. 123bugs

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Oct 8 2010 19:15:58
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    Wow.

    I am a regular person with a potential bedbug problem. I am trying to decide what to do to treat the bedbugs I believe I have in my home, if or once I confirm that bedbugs are the problem. I have either read or been told negative things about each competing company and therefore feel very confused as to a) which method would be safer and b) which method would be more effective.

    I did not say I had or was providing 'information.'. I was clearly SEEKING information in my post.

    I clearly stated that the points listed after my query were either a) "my understanding" - ie. in reference to statements each company told me themselves about their process and policies or b) "opinions I have heard" - referring to things I have read or been told about either company's process or policies. c) WHICH MAY OR MAY NOT BE CORRECT - how much more clear could I be that I don't KNOW what is true and what isn't? And that I am looking for information to help me sort out what is true and what is not?

    You seem to have taken my query as being biased against Thermapure. It is not, or certainly wasn't meant to be. I am (or certainly was, prior to reading your post) JUST as likely to use Thermapure as Temp-air. I had read that Thermapure has burnt some houses down - but I didn't even put that in my post. I said some people have said there could be safety concerns. And don't you think that if it was correct that Temp-Air can't get the home hot enough to kill bedbugs that that would be of major concern to me as a potential customer?

    There have been multiple posts on this forum that state that Thermapure vigorously sues their competitors. I have read those posts, so yes - I was aware of that issue on a general basis. I was not specifically aware that Thermapure is suing Temp-Air. (Now I am.) Frankly - and not meaning to be rude- I don't care! I don't care what is going on between Thermapure and any other company, except to hope whichever company is acting ethically and with integrity in the market place wins, I suppose. I to get rid of my bedbugs. HENCE, I specifically requested that people who ARE interested in that please carry on their postings on the other thread that deals with that topic.

    "Hide behind an alias???" In case you haven't noticed, that is kind of the point of this forum - that people can obtain help and SUPPORT from experts, and other sufferers - while maintaining their privacy.

  16. 123bugs

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Oct 8 2010 19:17:16
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    Accidentally sent that while still editing it............

  17. 123bugs

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Oct 8 2010 19:29:23
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    I am living a nightmare, exhausted, crying at the drop of a hat, not coping in any way. I have spent thousands of dollars on bedbug related items (mattress encasements, bed bug beacons, steamer etc etc etc) and haven't even treated for them yet as still can't find sufficient evidence. I have missed several days of work. My child can't go to her friend's houses or have them here, nor say why. etc etc. ETC!!!!! (No point expounding on the actual bedbug experience- you probably wouldn't understand -or care). Then, after spending the day shopping for hard-sided luggage and picking up my big soggy box of $400 more of bedbug stuff from the post office that is leaking bedbug spray all over my porch right now -I come home to your post. Man, this 'hiding behind an alias' thing is a treat!

  18. KillerQueen

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Oct 8 2010 19:37:12
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    123,

    If you're outside of NY, why not give me a call and I will help where I can. It sounds like you need a bit more then the site is giving you right now. Private message me if you would like my number.

    Best, KQ

  19. Xcel

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Fri Oct 8 2010 20:11:23
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    123,

    I believe that elias2000 was refering to labugman and not you.

    It is pretty obvious to everyone that labugman has some kind of an axe to grind with thermapure. I know much of what he or she said is false.

  20. labugman

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Sat Oct 9 2010 7:44:44
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    I would be interested to hear from Xcel and tell me what single fact I have posted here is false.

  21. labugman

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Sat Oct 9 2010 10:34:15
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    Since I am not likewise constrained from commenting on the lawsuit with Temp Air I will spare Elias 2000 from having to provide the distasteful details.

    The patent for killing bed bugs and other insects by using heat is a patent that has expired so any one using heat to kill pests so long as they follow the Forbes patent are not violating any patent rights. David Hedman somehow got another patent which later became the '812 patent and it added a silly wrinkle to the expired Forbes patent by adding filtration as a step that improved on the Forbes patent. So for you heat enthusiasts, make sure you do not use any type of filtration when you are killing bed bugs. As a side note the latest stunning invention that David Hedman has introduced is the worthless '812 patent plus the use of silica gel, so don't use that either.

    The suit against Temp Air and about a dozen other companies and individuals is noting more than legal extortion. David Hedman has hired a lawyer on a contingency basis, meaning it costs Hedman nothing to file the suit and his attorney only gets paid a percentage of the settlement. So these defendants have to hire an attorney and defend a frivolous lawsuit that can easily cost a half million dollars or more. Hedman and his lawyers are well aware that most of the defendants will offer a settlement rather than go to trial where anything can happen. Right, OJ?

    So David Hedman is suing a dozen individuals and companies for violating a patent that David Hedman has sworn under oath to be ineffective and dangerous. If you read his '491 patent you will see these statements are facts and the lawsuit filed by David Hedman amounts to no more than legal extortion.

    What my point is, and I have not been sued nor am I involved in this present case is "buyer beware." This is an information and mutual aid site after all.

  22. 123bugs

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Sat Oct 9 2010 11:34:07
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    Labugman -
    I can't speak for other posters, but I think that it is highly unlikely that a person who hasn't been personally affected by their involvement with Thermapure in some way would take the time to do a great amount of research on the company and it's patent and lawsuit history.

    To me you come across as someone who has been very negatively affected by Thermapure, in some way. I can speculate:
    - perhaps you are the person whose house you state that they burnt down
    - perhpas you tried to start a competing heat treatment company and they sued you (seems likely)
    - perhaps a person who is dear to you was involved in with the company in some way
    - etc

    Whatever the situation is, perhaps you feel you need to remain anonymous to protect yourself legally.

    I cannot speak for others - but I think that posters want to know why you are so upset about Thermapure in order to evaluate the statements you are making, and that is why posters are encouraging you to give some idea of what your involvement with the company has been. Perhaps you can explain it in terms that still leave you protected legally, if that in fact is the issue preventing you from disclosing your involvement. (I just don't think anyone thinks you are just some guy who happened to take an interest in the activities of Thermapure and decided to do in-depth research on the company, you know?)

  23. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Sat Oct 9 2010 11:50:20
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    123bugs,

    I am sorry you were upset. I am pretty sure that Elias2000 was responding to labugman, and I think that response from Elias would have been better on the thread about licensing. (However, since labugman is making allegations about Thermapure on multiple threads, I also do not blame Elias2000 for posting to this thread instead.)

    As for your question of which technology is better, I am not entirely surprised that it is difficult to get an answer to your question here. Lots of people on the forums have used heat treatment successfully. buggyinsocal is a currently very active member who used a firm that utilizes Thermapure technology. I can't tell you offhand who has used a firm that uses Temp-Air technology, though I do not doubt they're around.

    People who have used a service have used only one and can't really compare it with anything. So the people who are going to respond to a question like this are people with some personal interest in the success (or not) of those companies that produce and license the technology. I'm not saying you should not have asked, but I am not surprised in the result.

    If you are looking for heat treatment options locally, I would seek out a firm which has been doing professional heat treatments for a while. You should enquire with them about their guarantees (not just about treatment success, but about the safety of your home and belongings). I would tell them about your concerns.

    I also want to stress that writing things under an anonymous username does not protect one in a legal way. Everyone is responsible for what they write on an internet forum. (I know labugman is aware of this too, because I messaged him about it.)

    I think it would be very helpful if labugman were to link to anything relevant on the internet in terms of pointing out cases he is referring to, rather than simply referring to things generally. I realize that's a lot of work.

    Elias2000,

    Thanks for your input.

  24. spideyjg

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Sat Oct 9 2010 12:34:11
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    ThermaPure’s most recent patent combines silica-based desiccants with heat to provide a perimeter barrier for those structures where there is migration between connected rooms, such as in apartment buildings, hotels, student dorms and the like.

    Crap I love desiccants. Guess I'll have that pinstipped Tyvek suited lawyer suing me soon.

    So tell me Elias. Are y'all going to kill the Insect Inferno?

    Jim

  25. buggyinsocal

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    Sat Oct 9 2010 14:32:46
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    123bugs,

    I have to agree with Nobugsonme's analysis here; I suspect Elias2000 was responding to labugman's response. I don't think he was speaking directly to you.

    Some issues seem to bring out the heated debates that are going on among professionals: use of detection dogs is one that I posted what I hoped was a helpful hint to someone else when I was a newbie, and before I knew it, I was in the middle of a raging debate.

    I mean, it makes sense. For people who are passionate about their profession, when those debates come up, because they feel passionately and there isn't consensus within the profession, discussions get passionate. I get that because the same thing happens at my day job. However, I also get that when you're trying to deal with the stress of making a smart decision about eliminating bed bugs, it can feel like you're being ganged up on unnecessarily.

    I'm sorry that the same thing happened to you about heat; I understand your desire to get good data before you decide about the kind of treatment you're going to go with--esp. given the cost.

    Unfortunately, I think Nobugs is right. I had a treatment from a company that used Thermapure. I did have some damage; all of it was minor if it wasn't my fault (I turned off but did not unplug three electronic devices. Each one was ruined either immediately or within 6 months or so. The PCO had said to unplug all electronics, but I forgot about a few, so that was on me.) I did have some minor damage to cheap (IKEA) furniture. Any of my furniture that wasn't cheap was fine.

    Given that heat treatment can be so successful when done properly, very few people will have been through treatment with both systems, so if you're looking for a layperson who's had both, I suspect you're not going to find one.

    And most people who get rid of bed bugs leave the boards, so I'm sure some people have used Tempair, but none of them happened to hang around. The vast majority of people with bed bug infestations leave the boards once they've solved their problem.

    I can tell you this: based on my own experience and what I've observed on the boards for nearly 2.5 years:

    the quality, experience, willingness to work with and educate clients, and "bedside manner" (aka people skills) of the PCO you hire probably matters a lot more in terms of success rates than does the patented or not method that the provider uses. This is as true with Vikane and thermal as it is with conventional chemical treatment.

    A really great PCO can make due with a handful of tools that he or she knows how to handle well.

    I would be much more concerned about either how many treatments a particular heat PCO has done and/or the willingness the PCO has to educate you about bed bugs and the upfrontness about what requirements there are for retreatment/how the PCO plans to make sure all the bugs are killed in the first treatment. Pest control is a service industry as much as a science-based industry. Once you week out the unscrupulous types who follow the "spray and pray" method, for me, the dividing line between good and mediocre PCOs is the line between the folks who want to educate clients and work with them and the mediocre PCOs who just want to do their thing and leave.

    However, like medical professionals and academics, many people who go into the field of pest management are likely far more interested in the science of it than the service part of it. They may not have anticipated needing to be as much a counselor as a scientist, and personality-wise, some people are just better at communicating with clients because of natural variation in personalities.

    Additionally, some clients have personalities that better match the personalities of some PCOs.

    So, for me, it's less about the technology and more about the expertise of the PCO you hire.

    Hope that helps.

  26. thebedbugguy

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Sat Oct 9 2010 15:18:32
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    Just a simple thing from a newbie here:

    When you heat outside air (via propane or whatever) and duct it into the room/home that means more work for the PCO which often means more $ for you. The PCO also has to ensure that the heated air gets distributed evenly (which has to be done with both systems) but systems using heated outside air need more circulation because the new hot air will hang high within the house or room and needs to be thoroughly combined with the cooler air down low.

    Systems that circulate and heat the existing air within the room or structure do not create the higher temperatures of propane heated air but they do both reach the thermal death point. Too much heat can cause damage to the house and or contents but not enough evenly distributed heat means the Bedbugs survive.

    I think it comes down the company and its people performing the treatment. If done correctly, regardless of the system, it will kill bedbugs and their eggs.

  27. labugman

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Sat Oct 9 2010 16:38:53
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    Elias 2000,

    I have two simple question for you after reading your most recent post.

    1. If someone is killing bed bugs with heat and he is following the Forbes patent to the letter (and not using filtration) is it your opinion that they are infringing on any Hedman/Thermapure patent?

    2. Does your company continue to sell licenses to the Thermapure '812 patent in spite of the fact that David Hedman has sworn under oath that the '812 patent is ineffective and dangerous?

  28. labugman

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Mon Oct 11 2010 20:09:29
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    Hello Elias 2000

    So you want to challenge your detractors and insist on some facts. Here are some facts. Here is a newspaper account of a Thermapure pest project using heat. The pest control job was 100% effective and I am sure the was no re-infestation.

    You tried to explain away this little screwup as an accident when a brush fire spread to the house, but the eyewitnesses seem to have a different take on the cause.
    I think the best line is "the resulting fireball consumed the house."

    Fumigation explosion destroys home

    By JASON SCHULTZ
    Sentinel staff writer
    SOQUEL — Firefighters say a propane tank being used to fumigate a hillside house exploded Monday afternoon, demolishing a family’s home.
    The Savoca family was not at their house on the 7000 block of Oak Ridge Road Monday because a pest control company had covered the house with a tent. Capt. Drew Johnston of the Aptos-La Selva Fire Department said the workers were using several propane tanks to pump hot air into the home to dry out termites.
    Central Fire Chief Bruce Clark said one of those tanks exploded, which caused four or five other tanks to explode.
    [b]The resulting fireball consumed the house, leaving nothing but an ash-covered cement slab and a pile of black wooden pillars. The fire was so hot and so fast that it rushed up a hill and devoured 3 acres of trees and brush. Fire crews from the California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection, Central Fire, Aptos-La Selva Fire and inmate crews from the California Youth Authority were able to control the blaze in about two hours. No other homes were damaged.
    John Quirk, who rents a trailer nearby, said he heard an explosion, and when he looked out the window saw flames and smoke. Three men from the pest control company were trying to put out the flames. He said he saw that the other propane tanks were about to explode, so he told the men to get out of there.
    None of the neighbors knew the name of the company doing the work, and Clark said the men had left by the time fire crews arrived.
    Next-door neighbor George Dymesich said, "It went so fast. It just kept exploding."
    The fire crews responded quickly but the scene was pandemonium. Fire engines barely squeezed through the winding, one-lane mountain road. A sheriff’s deputy stopped a long line of cars. A neighbor was frantically trying to get to three horses he had stabled on a nearby property. Clark said the horses were saved.
    At the site, a blackened crater of wreckage stood where the house had once been home to Charles Savoca, his wife and three children. Next door neighbor Cheryl Dymesich said her husband, George, called Charles Savoca to tell him about the fire.
    Savoca told KGO radio that he hired a company that specializes in nonchemical treatment of termites and carpenter ants. He said they use the propane tanks to raise the temperature in the house to 160 degrees and the core temperature of the wood to 130 degrees.
    "I hired them thinking they had the expertise to do this without burning my house down," Savoca said.
    "They sure exterminated my house," he said.
    A little piece of the blue tarpaulin tent that had covered the home rested on the driveway, covered in black soot. A child’s trampoline was half burned. A nearby fire truck leaked a pool of fluffy white foam onto the road.
    The fire raged up a hillside behind the home and jumped Oak Ridge Road. The hillside was charred, with little flames smoldering everywhere and thick smoke. Overhead five air tankers and three helicopters circled. Tankers dropped flame retardant on the hillside while a smaller helicopter dropped hundreds of gallons of water onto the remains of the home.
    Two firefighters were treated for heat exhaustion at the scene.
    Neighbor Marsha Garrett said getting to fires on her road has been troublesome. She said Oak Ridge Road didn’t have a name until about a decade ago when firefighters had trouble finding a home because the isolated road had no name and the addresses were listed as being on nearby Porter Gulch Road.
    Contact Jason Schultz at jschultz@santa-cruz.com.

  29. 123bugs

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    Mon Oct 11 2010 22:59:07
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    Buggy - yes, the concensus seems to be that he was responding to LaBugman, but since he referenced me in the first portion I didn't realize. I was very offended. (I'm a teensy bit stressed these days..........) I appreciate all your advice. Finding the right combination of method/service/experience/ethics is the trick. Thanks.

    Bedbugman - thank-you - that helps. I'm hoping too, that this would be caught early enough that either system would be even more likely to be successful.......

    Thanks guys!

  30. Nobugsonme

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    labugman,

    Please do not reproduce entire articles here due to copyright issues. Links to outside articles such as this are very much welcomed, with a brief quoted excerpt if you wish.

  31. msdfields

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    Fri Oct 15 2010 1:50:44
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    Anyone have experience with the ThermEx system for heat treatment?

  32. msdfields

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    elias2000 - 6 days ago  » 

    5. ThermaPure has established an effective protocol so that tenants and property owners do not take bed bugs out of the habitation in their purses, backpacks, briefcases, clothing, etc. in order to prevent a re-infestation once the occupants return.
    My name is Alan Elias and I work on behalf of ThermaPure.

    Alan,
    Can you share ThermaPure's effective protocol mentioned above.
    I think that would be helpful to all on this site, rather than this back and forth arguing about patents, houses burning down, etc. MAYBE that will turn this thread into something GOOD and answer some guestions of the original poster 123bugs as well as my own!

    THANKS!

  33. msdfields

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    buggyinsocal - 5 days ago  » 

    ...I had a treatment from a company that used Thermapure. I did have some damage; all of it was minor if it wasn't my fault (I turned off but did not unplug three electronic devices. Each one was ruined either immediately or within 6 months or so. The PCO had said to unplug all electronics, but I forgot about a few, so that was on me.) I did have some minor damage to cheap (IKEA) furniture. Any of my furniture that wasn't cheap was fine...

    ...I can tell you this: based on my own experience and what I've observed on the boards for nearly 2.5 years:
    ....the quality, experience, willingness to work with and educate clients, and "bedside manner" (aka people skills) of the PCO you hire probably matters a lot more in terms of success rates than does the patented or not method that the provider uses. This is as true with Vikane and thermal as it is with conventional chemical treatment....

    ...A really great PCO can make due with a handful of tools that he or she knows how to handle well.
    I would be much more concerned about either how many treatments a particular heat PCO has done and/or the willingness the PCO has to educate you about bed bugs and the upfrontness about what requirements there are for retreatment/how the PCO plans to make sure all the bugs are killed in the first treatment. Pest control is a service industry as much as a science-based industry. Once you week out the unscrupulous types who follow the "spray and pray" method, for me, the dividing line between good and mediocre PCOs is the line between the folks who want to educate clients and work with them and the mediocre PCOs who just want to do their thing and leave...

    Additionally, some clients have personalities that better match the personalities of some PCOs.
    So, for me, it's less about the technology and more about the expertise of the PCO you hire.
    Hope that helps....

    BRAVO buggyinsocal!!! Did your PCO give you a prep treatment sheet i.e. instructions prior to your heat treatment? If so, I think we'd all benefit if you would share that, especially since you did have some damage...

  34. Winston O. Buggy

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    Fri Oct 15 2010 7:43:20
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    Labugman & Elias, OUT OF THE WATER!!!!

  35. ripoffexterminators

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    Just had a thermal done by a thermapure provider on Thursday 10/14/2010. These used all electric heaters one was a big Mosebach and the others were these little blue jobs I don't know the maker. We did have a little minor heat damage. One set of vinyl shutters was warped and will have to be replaced. If the bugs are gone we are not going to complain about that. I am going to withhold saying anything more about this latest provider until we have the results of the dog sweep today but stay tuned

  36. msdfields

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    ripoffexterminators - 5 days ago  » 
    Just had a thermal done by a thermapure provider on Thursday 10/14/2010. These used all electric heaters one was a big Mosebach and the others were these little blue jobs I don't know the maker. We did have a little minor heat damage. One set of vinyl shutters was warped and will have to be replaced. If the bugs are gone we are not going to complain about that. I am going to withhold saying anything more about this latest provider until we have the results of the dog sweep today but stay tuned

    Keep us posted please!

  37. ripoffexterminators

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    Ok folks I'm back and the bad news is our thermapure heat treatment was a total failure and the bite are worse than ever. I also need people to know that the truth about bed bug dogs is that they are unreliable and will often not alert on bed bugs. I have been battling bugs for almost two years and have had 10 dog sweeps at least. We have had many alerts/positives but also have had no alerts at times in areas where we were definitely getting bitten. So we know that they are really hit or miss. CONTRARY TO WHAT PEOPLE IN THE PEST MANAGEMENT INDUSTRY HAVE BEEN SAYING BED BUG DOGS ARE NOT THAT RELIABLE, CERTAINLY NOT 97.5%. MAYBE IN TESTING BUT NOT IN THE FIELD/OUR HOME. A DOG SWEEP IN MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE IS ABSOLUTELY NOT A DEFINITE YES OR NO TO THE PRESENCE OF BED BUGS. We started having problems with itching immediately after our thermapure treatment and we couldn't believe that the heat would be so ineffective and we called in a dog. It happens that the dog seemed under the weather since he had the runs and soiled our kitchen floor and carpet so he may have been having an off day. The dog didn't alert and we thought that there must be a secondary cause for our itching. It was not the kind of larger bites we had been seeing but smaller bites and mystery itching. In any case we thought we might have scabies and we treated ourselves three times. It normally only takes once to eliminate them but we got no relief. The we had our cats checked for cat scabies which can bite humans. Skin scraping tests were negative. Next I went to a to NYC dermatologist. He's actually one of the top dermatologists in the Metropolitan area and he has a busy practice seeing hundreds of patients every week in NYC the bed bug capital of the world. He confirmed that it was not scabies or mites but that they were insect bites and that because of the locations of the bites on areas normally covered by bed clothes like buttocks and thighs that it would be hard to determine anything other than bed bugs. By this time the bites had returned to a larger more noticible size and it was consistent with what we had been dealing with all along. We are right back where we were before the treatment.

  38. msdfields

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    ripoffexterminators - 5 hours ago  » 
    We are right back where we were before the treatment.

    It is my understanding that Bedbugs generally bite only the parts of your body not under the bed covers.

    Have you actually seen a bedbug, dead or alive?

    Have you considered having a different bed bug dog do a sweep? How long do you have before your your guarantee runs out? Were any rooms not treated?

    Anyone have any experience with the new bedbug CO2 monitors? [url=http://www.usbedbugs.com/Bedbug-Beacon-CO2-Active-Monitor_p_27.html] like this one?

  39. msdfields

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    ripoffexterminators - 6 hours ago  » 
    Next I went to a to NYC dermatologist. He's actually one of the top dermatologists in the Metropolitan area and he has a busy practice seeing hundreds of patients every week in NYC the bed bug capital of the world. He confirmed that it was not scabies or mites but that they were insect bites and that because of the locations of the bites on areas normally covered by bed clothes like buttocks and thighs that it would be hard to determine anything other than bed bugs. By this time the bites had returned to a larger more noticible size and it was consistent with what we had been dealing with all along. We are right back where we were before the treatment.

    I am SO SORRY to hear you are still having problems....

    It is my understanding that Bedbugs generally bite only the parts of your body NOT under the bed covers.

    Have you actually seen a bedbug, dead or alive?

    Have you considered having a different bed bug dog do a sweep?

    How long do you have before your your guarantee runs out?

    Were any rooms not treated?

    Anyone have any experience with the new bedbug CO2 monitors? [url=http://www.usbedbugs.com/Bedbug-Beacon-CO2-Active-Monitor_p_27.html]like this one?

  40. msdfields

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    Tue Nov 2 2010 11:43:36
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    Have been trying to reply but it is NOT being posted... HELP ... what am I doing wrong?

  41. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 4 years ago
    Tue Nov 2 2010 11:50:34
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    msdfields,

    This is what happened: http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/nobugs-my-post-disappeared

    Your post has been rescued from the spam filter. Please read that post I linked to just so you're aware of the need not to repost if it happens again. Thanks!

  42. Nobugsonme

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    ripoff,

    If you had treatment from a Thermapure provider a few weeks ago, and the dog team you hired did not detect the problem, I hope you will get your hands on some bed bug monitors and deploy them. You need to determine without a doubt that there are bed bugs present.

    Did your Thermapure provider give you a guarantee, and did you let them know the problem persists?

    There are canine scent detection units who are effective and those which are not. The protection against false positive alerts is to make sure your canine handler verifies all alerts by inspecting visually to find evidence of bed bugs. Following Dr. Michael Potter, and other bed bug experts, we recommend choosing a team which does this. (See our dogs FAQ.)

    On the other hand, I am not sure what protects consumers against dogs which don't alert to a bed bug presence.

  43. msdfields

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    Tue Nov 2 2010 11:59:22
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    Nobugsonme - 23 minutes ago  » 
    msdfields,
    This is what happened: http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/nobugs-my-post-disappeared
    Your post has been rescued from the spam filter. Please read that post I linked to just so you're aware of the need not to repost if it happens again. Thanks!

    Thanks nobugsonme for explaining!

  44. DougSummersMS

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    Tue Nov 2 2010 12:12:55
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    RipOffExterminators

    Have you found any live specimens?

    Are you utilizing monitors for surveillance?

    A dog that is suffering with the runs is unlikely to produce reliable results.

    Wow... I am really sorry to hear that you have been dealing with bed bugs for almost two years.... Can you provide some history about treatment efforts in the building?

    Did your PCO treat or inspect the surrounding units?

  45. ripoffexterminators

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    Thu Nov 4 2010 18:24:13
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    Back again. Too many questions to answer. First though the understanding that you have the bed bugs only bite where the body is exposed is wrong. I don't know where you heard that but based on all of the conflicting mishmash of true and false info on bed bugs which is circulating around the internet I'm not surprised. Bed bugs will happily bite you where ever they can get a meal under the covers or outside. The point made in the previous post is that mosquitos don't bite you on the ass under three layers of bedding.

    Now for all of these guys who are trying to inject doubt as to whether there are bed bugs and suggesting monitors and such. Can you please quit pushing this nonsense on me? Wjat is so ridiculous about this forum are the number of people who make these suggestions with such certainty when they have never actually had bed bugs. Example I have someone telling me here that it's their understanding that bed bugs actually only bite exposed areas and don't go under the bedding. I can say with 100% certainty that that's horsefeathers. So if you aren't sure about what you;re talking about why is it necessary to advise someone.

    To all these people who are suggesting that I have to positively determine the presence of bed bugs you also don't know what you;re talking about. There are very few insects that could be confused with bed bugs, if someone has the signs in the midst of this raging epidemic it's the least likely scenario that it's something else. I am not saying that it can't be something else. It can be confused with scabies which we have 100% determined that we don't have. Scabies are killed in one treatment. We have treated ourselves three times. And there are bat bugs and bird mites which we also are 100% positive that we don't have. We have no bats or large bird populations nesting in our home. The cats were checked for mange. The house has been heated which would kill anything living in the open space even if it didn't fully kill what's in the walls. So that leaves only wall dwelling nocturnal insects which bite. But for those of you who love to go on and hear yourselves write please keep up the conversation about monitors and dogs and other bullshit unreliable detections methods. Monitors are not reliable. Bed bugs chose their preferred meal and leave other things alone. If they can bypass my father and only bite my mother why would they bother to chose a monitor instead of the humans which they have already chemically tagged? This is just plain common sense but in fact it was someone from Cooper pest who first pointed this out to me.

  46. Richard56

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    Thu Nov 4 2010 18:44:25
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    Now for all of these guys who are trying to inject doubt as to whether there are bed bugs and suggesting monitors and such. Can you please quit pushing this nonsense on me? ... Example I have someone telling me here that it's their understanding that bed bugs actually only bite exposed areas and don't go under the bedding
    ====================================
    Most here are not professionals, so opinions will not always be correct, but I would assume you knew that when you posted.

    That said, in general the advice you have been given is good. At this point you first priority has to be to determine conclusively that you still have bed bugs. Bites are simply not enough and I don't care who your dermatologist is they cannot eyeball a bed bug bite from another insect bite and probably not even from several other skin conditions. And, unless I've missed something, you cannot simply diagnose bed bugs by an approach that eliminates all other causes. Too many variables. The only way you can diagnose bug bugs is to find either samples, fecal smears or cast skins. As to the monitors, only active monitors favor a live person in the room. Passive monitors like ClimbUp Interceptors or BBAlertPassive work best when there is a sleeper in the room. So, if someone is being bit, that is where you want to put those monitors.

    Richard

  47. ripoffexterminators

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    I want to add that I realize some people are trying to help and so I don't have ill will it's more frustration over the fact that people are trying to advise me in ways which don't serve my best interests and may not even be relevant to my situation. We have had this problem for almost two years here in NJ and I dealt with it for 9 months in Brooklyn before that. We are long past the point of needing to positively determine bed bugs. The dog that failed is one of many dogs that were here and most of them had alerts. So now we've had a treatment which like all the others failed and we had a sick dog and we have people telling me that we need monitors. AFTER TWO YEARS AND 20 DOG ALERTS, AND A DOCTORS DETERMINATION WITH A BIOPSY WE DON'T NEED MONITORS!! Now I know why they defeated the recreational marijuana bill in CA. Some people are already going at it hard enough.

    Products come out and the next thing you know everyone is recommending them as if they are truly reliable when they aren't. Especially pest management companies who make a profit off of selling them. The private testing lab of a manufacturer who has a vested interest in selling the product isn't close enough to the field in these cases and presents the issue of conflict of interest between the maker and the consumer. There is no underwriters laboratory to put a seal on bed bug products and no government lab to certify that which has been claimed by the manufacturer of the products. But all of you go ahead keep pushing monitors and climb up interceptors and Magic Elixer that will change your luck at the slot machines.

    My advise to someone who wants to positively determine the presence of bed bugs or lack their of is to have the bites examined by a qualified MD and have a biopsy done by a reputable lab. The lab can determine if it's an insect bite and then you can use other factors to determine what kind of insect it might be. In my case the locations and patterns of the bites(multiple bites in 2's and 3's) was a telling indicator. Twice I have heard pest management pros trying to cast doubt about the qualifications of MD's to determine the bites. What incredible arrogance. Probably the motivation of the PMO's is that if they fail and a doctor provides evidence to prove that treatments were not successful they want to be able to dispute that. If pest management professionals had to get the same level of education and training that doctors have perhaps we would be in a much better situation.

  48. ripoffexterminators

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    Let me add something Richard. I'm not what someone would call slow on the uptake. The way you speak in your message is that you are an authority. You claim to verify that the advice being given to me is good without any doubt. My guess is that your Richard Cooper and you're posting anonymously. I have a few bones to pick with you and your company so you're welcome to take this off list. About monitors: What we know about bed bugs is that they are particular about their meals. These bugs regularly bypass my father and bite my mother who sleeps in the same bed. Why then would they go for the monitors or those ridiculous climb up interceptors instead of their preferred human hosts? Do you know who pointed this out to me. A service representative from Cooper pest who came out in 2009. Any other suggestiongs Mr "God of bed bugs" ?

  49. ripoffexterminators

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    Actually Richard let's not take it off list. let's have a public conversation about some of the policies of your company. Next week when I have time I am going to start a thread detailing my issues with the policies of your company and my own experiences. I encourage you to respond as best you can with the online community being able to review our debate.

  50. Richard56

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    My guess is that your Richard Cooper and you're posting anonymously.
    -----------
    First, thank you for the compliment. I really don't anywhere near deserve it but thanks again.

    No, I'm not Richard Cooper, we just happen to share the same first name. I'm just an average Joe who had a real bed bug scare this summer and did some research, much of it here. Since you know Richard and want a "public conversation", I suggest you email him with a link to this thread and maybe he will respond. He is a member.

    As to your incorrect statements about monitors, I'll try and post some credible studies later that have used passive monitors. The one in mind used ClimbUp Interceptors.

    Richard (NOT) Cooper

  51. Richard56

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    I take that back, it's Jeff White (from Richard Cooper's Company) that posts here from time to time. Not sure if Richard Cooper does.

    Richard (STILL NOT) Cooper

  52. Nobugsonme

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    ripoffexterminators - 6 hours ago  » 
    To all these people who are suggesting that I have to positively determine the presence of bed bugs you also don't know what you;re talking about. There are very few insects that could be confused with bed bugs, if someone has the signs in the midst of this raging epidemic it's the least likely scenario that it's something else.

    Hi ripoff,

    When we suggest you need a positive ID for bed bugs, it means you need current evidence besides skin reactions (which are not definitive evidence).

    It does sound like you and your mom may be reacting to a bite of some kind that your father is not allergic to. It may be bed bugs. But you can't say you still have bed bugs unless you have physical evidence. This consists of bed bugs, cast skins, or fecal matter. In your case, where a heat treatment has been done as recently as 10/14, you'd have to find new evidence.

    This is not easy and you have my sympathy. But please do not misunderstand the nature of the suggestions you're getting.

    Also, doctors can diagnose insect bites with a biopsy, but cannot definitively diagnose bed bug bites. That's a medical fact.

    By the way, I HAVE had bed bugs. And yes, they can crawl under bedclothes.

  53. Nobugsonme

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    ripoffexterminators - 5 hours ago  » 
    Actually Richard let's not take it off list. let's have a public conversation about some of the policies of your company. Next week when I have time I am going to start a thread detailing my issues with the policies of your company and my own experiences. I encourage you to respond as best you can with the online community being able to review our debate.

    Richard Cooper does not monitor these forums to my knowledge. He has posted a comment or two on the site over the years.

    You can, of course, email him if you want to get in touch.

  54. DougSummersMS

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  55. Richard56

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    Fri Nov 5 2010 9:04:15
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    http://www.brickunderground.com/files/Bed%20Bug%20Study.pdf

    "....(ClimbUp) Interceptors not only helped determine the
    effectiveness of the bed bug management program but
    also served as a non chemical tool for killing bed bugs
    because the trapped bed bugs could not escape and a
    majority of the trapped bed bugs died when examined
    at 2Ð3-wk intervals...."

  56. Richard56

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    Ripoff: Why then would they go for the monitors or those ridiculous climb up interceptors instead of their preferred human hosts?
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    They still go for their preferred human hosts, it's just that they get caught in the ClimbUp Interceptors, or similar devices. That's because -- assuming you isolate your bed (push it away from the wall, no hanging blankets, etc) -- the only way the bugs can get to you would be through the interceptors, hence their name. The link and excerpt from the previous post contain some documentation.

    Just want to add that we're all in (or have been) in similar boats, and hopefully you take all these comments and suggestions as people simply trying to help. I can understand how frustrating it must be in your circumstance, but sometimes you have to step back and re-evaluate your entire approach and reasoning. At least that is what worked for me.

    Richard

  57. geewizd

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    after reading all the free advice and horror stories , I have come to the conclusion that most of the experts are only experts in thier own minds.I am fifty four years of age,I am a contruction worker a trademan for over 30 years+years. I have used propane heaters inside for just as long.commercial and residential.My experience is the only fires I,ve seen caused by propane were caused by roofers on melting down rubber roofs with propane flame throwers.In my oppinion it is100 times more dangerous than heating up a room or house to 60 c or 150 f.I have done my own house with success while on purpose chain smoking,fire extinguisher ,lazer heat gun themometer and carbon,natural gas and propane gas detector on hand,only damage was to dollar store thermometor that broke because it only went as high as 120.There are all kinds of fires started by these roofers every year 95 percent don,t have propane lincence or insurance ,yet people hire and use them all the time,and yet you don,t hear much talk about it.The cost is right up there with bb heat treatment.most time higher.also very rare to see residential roofer who has fire extinguisher.So please enough of all your scare tactics and warnings,heating up houses with exteme heat has been going on long before the bb comeback and long before these expert heat treatment companys have been alive and thier expert employees.So if heating up works in the fight against bugs roaches mould lice ticks fleas and more why discourage people from trying unless your trying to make money out of your own services.Randy:-(

  58. cilecto

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Thu Jan 20 2011 9:29:56
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    @GEEWIZD. For a technique to be recommended, it needs to be consistently safe. It also needs to be consistently effective, ie, it must eradicate all bugs and eggs and not drive bugs into hiding or otherwise exacerbate the situation. And it needs to minimize damage to furnishings.

    You are skilled and experienced working with heat equipment. You report personal success. That's great. But not everyone in the community has these skills. And one reported success does not automatically translate into assured success for all who attempt this.

    Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night...
    - Psalms 91:5-7

    (Not an pro)
  59. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Thu Jan 20 2011 13:28:31
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    geewizd - 11 hours ago  » 
    So please enough of all your scare tactics and warnings,heating up houses with exteme heat has been going on long before the bb comeback and long before these expert heat treatment companys have been alive and thier expert employees.So if heating up works in the fight against bugs roaches mould lice ticks fleas and more why discourage people from trying unless your trying to make money out of your own services.Randy:-(

    Randy,

    Sorry, but you're wrong. Both Cilecto and I (so far) think yours is bad advice, and neither of us is in the heat treatment (or pest management) business.

    There are three issues when treating bed bugs with heat:
    Safety to humans and pets
    Safety to structure and contents
    Killing all the bed bugs (rather than killing some bed bugs, or moving bed bugs around without killing them all, which may happen if heat treatment is carried out incorrectly).

    Why don't we just encourage people to try?

    Because "trying" this method unsuccessfully -- even if it does not damage people or property -- can create a situation where you have spread bed bugs around but haven't killed them all. People have done this and reported it here. Successfully killing bed bugs with heat is more complicated than simply heating your home without burning it down (though I suspect that in itself is tricky for plenty of folks).

    I STRONGLY recommend that people hire competent and experienced professionals to do heat treatment so that it is both safe and effective in all of these ways.

  60. frozen north

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Wed Feb 2 2011 21:34:33
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    I've been following your forum for some time, and think I might have some input. I had the little vampires 3 times. I'm in the construction industry and have access to the high BTU equipment. I cooked my place with a 400,000 btu in-direct fired propane heater ducting in thru the windows and blowing the air around just with the 20" Airmaster I happen to have and moving the ducts around. I monitored with a digital point'n'shoot and initially concentrated on the bedroom. An in-direct fired heater blows air around a heat exchanger, so output temps are much lower than direct fired, but you don't get the dragon flame down the mouth of the thing and are designed to be ducted. Output temp was around 73-75 Celcius. (about 165 F). The first time was overkill; I cooked the place until I had 90 C temps near the ceiling, no surface less than 55 C, and an average of about 65 C (~130 - 150 F). Cooked it for about 6 hours. Melted the trim off my Ikea desk, and warped my plastic ceiling tiles, but otherwise no damage. No more bites. 3 months later I started getting bit again, so I cooked it again, this time more reasonably and kept all temps below 150F but achieved at least 130 everywhere. Again, no more bites. A couple of months later, it started again, and so i cooked again like the second time. No more bites. But this time I pursued my suspicions of the culprit. A buddy who dropped in regularly, say 2 or 3 times a month, doesn't have the best personal hygiene and lives in relative squalor. Went to his house and I saw B-bugs right out in the open. If you're seeing them running around in the daytime, you've got a major infestation. We cooked his place, and upon flipping his mattress he had literally hundreds of the little fruckers. HUNDREDS! disgusting. I cooked his place and we managed to get maybe ~90% of them before the heat-sensing alarm in his building went off and we brought out the firetrucks. There wasn't any danger of fire, those temps won't spontaneously combust anything (Finnish saunas shoot for 80 - 110 C, believe it or not), but we had to shut it down. We extreme-cleaned his place, tossed the mattress and almost all his possessions, then his landlord sprayed after much complaining. It took 4 spray treatments to finish them off, and I'm still not convinced he's gotten them all, though he hasn't brought them to my house again. Heat does work, though I wouldn't recommend using those big heaters unless you have some experience with them. At buddy's place we put the mouth of the duct right up to the mattress and they danced a little frantic death dance before dropping dead like flies. Literally dropping of his mattress dead. It was fun. Like a lab experiment. god, but those little critters cause a lot of grief, don't they?

  61. NorthEast

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Fri Feb 4 2011 19:27:18
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    Thermapure vs. Temp-Air,

    If the service tech.'s know what they're doing then both systems can eliminate bed bug infestations. If the Temp-Air tech. isn't experienced with bed bugs, they probably won't solve the problem and probably won't damage your home. If the Thermapure tech. isn't experienced, he probably won't solve the problem and probably will cause some level of damage.

    The pro's ability is what determines the success.

  62. BC BEDBUG EXPERT

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    Posted 3 years ago
    Thu May 12 2011 18:54:24
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    I agree with NorthEast's comment very well put.

    Our company uses temp-Air equipment for bed bug elimination.
    So I can answer some of 123bugs questions from The Temp-Air side.
    Yes these are electric heaters, we use wireless sensors & a computer to monitor the temperature which sends a reading every minute. Temp-Air heaters are safe, they are set for a maximum discharge temperature of 135, when this temperature is reached the heating coils will cycle off. Did you know, The Temp-Air 460V is UL approved and listed as an insect control device and is the only heater specifically designed for the application of heat to control bed bugs.
    Yes the heaters definately have enough btu's to heat inside walls.
    Hope this helps,
    Tina
    BC BEDBUG EXPERT

  63. Cognesis

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    Posted 2 years ago
    Wed Jul 11 2012 20:16:05
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    First of all, full disclosure. I am and have been a consultant to ThermaPure for several years. I have also known Dave Hedman as a personal friend for over 30 years. While this no doubt biases my point of view, it also gives me unique insight into the company which I hope may shed some light on some of the issues raised here. Let me also say that these opinions are my own and do not necessarily represent those of the company.
    Let me start off by saying that I do not believe that ThermaPure “owns heat”. It owns patents related to specific processes used in the engineered application of heat to purify structures of various contaminants and pests.
    ThermaPure’s proprietary process is unique in two important ways. First all licensees and their technicians must complete rigorous training including both classroom instruction and hands on application, supervised by experienced experts. I know of no other company that provides this level of training. This is important because it helps to ensure that the ThermaPure process is consistently applied in the field in a safe and effective manner while avoiding damage to the structure or items in it.
    I personally went through the training, and I can tell you that, while the fundamental process is the same in all applications, the diversity of conditions from one job to the next requires a great deal of skill and experience for successful application. It is this experience from thousands of heat treatments, distilled and passed on to licensees that has, in my opinion, a great deal of value.
    ‘Second, the process is engineered for efficacy and safety. A prime example of this is the inclusion of filtration in the ThermaPure process. In order to evenly raise temperatures in a structure sufficiently to kill a specific organism like a bedbug, air is heated and then aggressively mixed and circulated using fans. This mixing results in significant levels of very small particulates being introduced into the air. Scientists call these suspended particulates “aerosol.” Experts like Michael Geyer, PE, CIH believe that engineering controls are necessary for the safety of both technicians and occupants of the building. Geyer states “Failing to control the aerosol generated during an effort that employs aggressive air mixing may be negligent, because studies have indicated that it is very likely to be harmful or injurious to persons exposed to the post-treatment aerosol” Yes, you can use heat to kill bedbugs without filtration. However, if it is important to also protect workers and occupants from the negative health effects of particles left behind by heat treatment, then ThermaPure is the best solution that I know of.


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