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Super Gone with DDVP
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cilecto
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Joined: Aug '08
Posts: 514
Posted 5 months ago
Wed Jun 17 2009 16:20:05
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Was browsing in an ethnic (African) specialty grocery in a northeast USA city and came across "Super Gone" insect spray. Labeled "Made in China". Claimed DDVP (Vapona) as the active ingredient. Had a pic of BB on the label. Doubt that this went via the EPA (FWIW, I doubt that there's any DDVP in the can, either and wouldn't use it in any case). I've read at least one ento/PCO claiming that the recent surge in BBs was due to ending use of DDVP in many countries (including USA). IIRC, other than the pest strips, there's no legal DDVP in the USA for home use. Am I mistaken? Are companies allowed to import small amounts of this stuff for the benefits of expats? Is this legal? Smuggled? Counterfeit? Anyone else seen this?
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Sounds most likely to be like the last carton of marlboro lights I had that said "made in china", looked right but god only knows what was in them but 2 puffs and they were in the bin. I know the taste of marlboro country and the only way they resembled any country was the pool by the silage tank.
We have a lot of issues in the UK with a range of counterfeit goods, some of the worst I have seen have included toothpaste made with known carcinogens. Toys out of toxic plastic parts and choke hazards. I would however say that finding the odd banned product in a small groceries that imports its own stock is not that uncommon when customs have enough issues with illegal items by the container load rather than a few packing crates.
I suspect it was most likely slipped into fill the box up with the good stuff from back home but you never know it could be something far worse and that's the danger.
David
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Joined: May '07
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Posted 5 months ago
Wed Jun 17 2009 17:09:00
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DDVP is actually a fumigant as it produces vapors which kill the target organisms. It is still available as a concentrate as a Restricted Use pesticide and available to certain licensed personnel.
It is also available in some ready to use products. While it may be effective it is definitely not something you want around your bed or living quarters. It also does not play well with modern materials and plastics. Commodities and other warehouses may use it sometimes in empty areas to be sure they are pest free. I do not believe there are any bed bug labels for this material. And given the publics misuse of pesticides it should not be. Even as a professional product there are many restrictions and it is most problematic and should not be used for BBs. -
Amvac makes a Pest Strip containing DDVP that is labeled for bed bugs. I believe they also relabeled a liquid formulation called Nuvon.
http://www.amvac-chemical.com/media/pdf/products/promos/nuvan.pdf
http://www.amvac-chemical.com/media/pdf/products/specimen_labels/Nuvan%20Prostrip%20Specimen%20(12678-2)%20-%20CPS%20-%2005-20-09.pdf
I think these are both professional use items.
One of our PCOs told me that the liquid formulation can be particularly hazardous, if not used properly.
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cilecto
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Joined: Aug '08
Posts: 514
Posted 5 months ago
Wed Jun 17 2009 18:31:08
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Nobugsonme - 1 hour ago »
Cilecto, I have heard entos claim the end to the use of DDT in the USA and other countries helped bed bugs come back.
DDVP (dichlorvos)is legal here, it's also in Hot Shot/Vapona strips.
Didn't you mean DDT?!?DDVP (yes, the stuff in the pest strips), not DDT. The ento's paper I read (9+ months ago and couldn't locat since) claimed that it was the phase-out of DDVP in the late 90s, not the DDT ban in the 70s that caused the resurgence (else, why the 30 year hiatus).
I recently came across a can of "Raid" with DDVP in a cupboard I helped clean. Looked ancient, assumed it had broken down and sent it to the building's haz-mat bin.
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The link I tried to post didn't work....
I'll try again
www.amvac-chemical.com/nuvan_prostrips_labels.html
Try this link & click on the Label & MSDS icon
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cilecto
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Joined: Aug '08
Posts: 514
Posted 5 months ago
Wed Jun 17 2009 18:44:10
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I recall reading that Amvac was getting DDVP relabeled, exoected it to be big news and their stock (AVD) to spike, LOL.
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DangerousDave
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Joined: Jun '09
Posts: 45
Posted 5 months ago
Thu Jun 18 2009 11:33:11
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I've heard that DDT is toxic and hazardous to one's health, but when impregnated into solids (i.e. those aforementioned type strips), it's perfectly safe (to the intelligent, common-sense wielding man), is this correct?
Seriously though, sometimes I just wish I could buy DDT-impregnated linens, and be done with this.
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buggyinsocal
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Joined: Jun '08
Posts: 1,130
Posted 5 months ago
Thu Jun 18 2009 12:15:43
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DDVP is a very different chemical than DDT.
DDVP is dichlorvos. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDVP
DDT is dichlorodiphenyltrichloroethane. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDT
DDVP is legal in the United States. DDT is not.
A lot of people, myself included, when first faced with a bed bug infestation immediately looked nostalgically back on wider spectrum pesticides like DDT. However, even if we brought DDT back, there's no guarantee use of it would solve the bed bug problem. In places where DDT is more widely used, there is some evidence that it not only doesn't solve the bed bug problem but can make it worse. The fact that the pesticides we used 50 years ago appeared to work on bed bugs is not as easy a conclusion as it might seem. It is not only the pesticides that were used but how they were applied, and how pesticides were applied for pests other than bed bugs. (There's a lot of speculation these days that when pesticides that worked more widely on multiple pests were sprayed to get rid of roaches or ants, bed bug populations that actually were present for many of the decades that we thought they were gone were kept in check by spraying for other pests, and that when we switched to more narrowly focused pesticides, the bed bugs were able to increase in population.)
Aside from questions of toxicity to individuals where DDT is concerned, it has a negative effect on the ecosystem because of the way it concentrates in apex predators.
As someone who lives very close to a Superfund Site that exists because of the 110 tons of DDT that Montrose Chemical let flow through the sewers into the ocean in the 20th century, I'm not exactly keen to see it brought back, especially since it may make bed bug problems worse, not better.
(No, I'm not making that up. http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-palos-verdes-pollution12-2009jun12,0,1974319.story)
There are effective treatments for bed bugs today that can take care of the problem in a single treatment. Vikane and thermal are both highly effective treatments that, if done properly, can solve the bed bug problem. They are not available everywhere. But it seems to me to make more sense to agitate for making them more widely available and affordable while continuing to push for more research into other new treatments, rather than to try to bring back a chemical that has a potential for a lot of negative environmental impact.
I'm not a chemist, or a PCO, but my understanding of DDVP strips is that although they are solid strips, they outgas a gas fumigant. That fumigant is definitely not safe for continued inhalation, which is why such strips are only to be used in
well-ventilated[Admin's correction:] unoccupied areas.So sadly, you're unlikely to see DDVP or DDT treated linens any time soon. I understand the impulse behind such a desire. As Winston's post above points out, even the use of DDVP among pest control professionals is debated. Some endorse its use, while others oppose it.
As with most chemicals, it's generally never as simple as "in this form, X is safe, while in Y form, it's totally unsafe."
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One small correction on DDVP strips ... . DDVP strips are labeled for unoccupied areas or areas that are occupied for less than four hours a day as opposed to well ventilated areas.
Otherwise BuggyInSoCal has summarized the issues with DDT vs DDVP very well.
Unfortunately, studies on field populations of bed bugs suggest that high levels of resistance to DDT are common & it is unlikely that DDT would have the same effect that it had in the 30s & 40s... We simply need to look elsewhere for a silver bullet to control bed bugs in the 21st century.
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buggyinsocal
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Joined: Jun '08
Posts: 1,130
Posted 5 months ago
Thu Jun 18 2009 14:40:10
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Thanks for the correction, Doug. It's an important one. I wouldn't ever use them inside myself, but I'm sort of a chemical pesticide phobe/minimalist, so I sometimes am not as accurate as I'd like when writing about things I wouldn't use in my own residence.
Having used them to treat bins of stuff, I realized that they looked awfully familiar. I think they're the same thing I remember seeing being used in garages that people don't live in and/or in the tack shed at the camp I went to growing up. Both of those kinds of places seem like they exactly meet those criteria of being occupied for less than 4 hours a day.
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soscared
newbite
Joined: Sep '09
Posts: 113
Posted 4 weeks ago
Fri Oct 23 2009 21:14:46
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Should we not be using Vapona/DDVP strips in an attached garage? We have our washer/dryer in there too, and (lately) I go in there several times a day.
Could the chemical "leak" inside the house and poison my baby? The garage is not very well sealed, i am sure the fumes escape outside into the street through the cracks.
Thanks.
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