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Successful service by NYC PCOs

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  1. bedbugsenigma

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Sun Feb 10 2008 0:38:08
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    I've had two PCOs and two bad experiences. I've had bites since the beginning of October. I live and work in my apt and I live alone. I'm having more and more bites after the last chemical treatment about a month ago, but have not been able to find a bb. The hardwood floors in my apt are 100 years old and have never been redone so you can imagine how many cracks there are. Dream world of those damned bbs. I am getting a k-9 dog inspection on Tuesday. I am getting more and more anxious about it as I am afraid I may have bbs in my books and I use them every day (I am still a student).

    From my online searches I found Cooper Pest Control to be incredibly informative but unfortunately they don't service the NY metropolitan area yet. David's company also looks awesome but unfortunately they're overseas. The web site of Arrow Exterminating is also pretty impressive and they do service NYC, although their fees are truly exorbitant.

    Is there anyone out there who successfully got rid of bbs using a company that services NYC, including Arrow? I would be immensely grateful to have that recommendation. I am from another country and moved to NYC a few years ago. I do not have any relatives here and no more than a couple of close friends, none of whom ever had bbs (lucky them!). My life is at a standstill and I am really falling behind with my studies, spending tons of money and getting more and more depressed.. If you have a recommendation, pls share it with me. Pls feel free to PM me if you prefer. Thank you in advance.

  2. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Sun Feb 10 2008 2:20:57
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    bedbugsenigma,

    Can you tell us what the problems were with the PCOs you used before? (You don't have to name them if you do not want to.)

    Also, have you had a positive dtermination that the problem is bed bugs? (It's important to have a doctor rule out folliculitis, scabies, etc. just in case.)

    Does your landlord know you have bed bugs and have all adjacent and attached units been inspected?

    Apologies if you have already answered these in another post, but it is hard to keep track of all of the stories.

    I started and run the site but am "not an expert."
  3. bedbugsenigma

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Sun Feb 10 2008 14:44:36
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    Sure but be warned that it’s a long story...

    First of all, as I mentioned, I have never seen a live bb. I have just experienced bites. When I got my first bites in early October a friend of mine had a co-worker who had bbs so I thought it could be that. I discovered this forum only a few days ago.

    My dermatologist says my welts could be from bbs, but it could also be scabies or allergy. She gave me a treatment for scabies and I will go for it if the K-9 dog does not find anything on Tuesday. That would be my dream!

    As for the first PCOs, I have a long list of complaints:

    - They treated my apt before they found any evidence. At the time I was not informed about the importance of finding evidence.
    - The inspection was done by one person in a matter of a few minutes, simply by lifting the bed cover and looking at the sheets. Since there were no blood spots or excrement traces on the sheets (but aren’t excrement traces to be found near the bbs hiding places??) the person concluded I was bitten by spiders and did a "preventive treatment" for $150. This was in late October. The PCO used Gentrol and Cy-Kick (again, at the time I did not know that Gentrol can increase rather than decrease bb reproduction). I have a tall dresser and a large wardrobe near my bed. None of those items were inspected in any way.
    - After that “preventive treatment” the bites did not stop and I got bitten on my face, near my mouth, which made me go insane. I called them again and another man came for a full treatment. This was the beginning of December. Again, no inspection was done, although in the process of taking apart the platform bed, he said he saw traces of excrement. The guy sprayed Gentrol and Cy-Kick again. And again, nothing was done to the dresser and wardrobe. They were not inspected and I was not told to process my clothes.
    - In my platform bed there were drawers where I kept my wool sweaters individually in plastic bags for sweaters. I got this habit from my mom but it’s not against bbs, it’s just to keep dust out. The bags were not sealed. The PCO said that normally he would advise to dry-clean these sweaters as they were under the bed, but since they were in plastic he suggested we make a pile and he sprayed the pile with chemicals (Gentrol and Cy-Kick). The pile was made in the room adjacent the bedroom. I think this may have spread the problem rather than solve it.
    - I was about to go on a trip and he offered to spray the clothes I did not have time to process. I went to see my mom overseas and after ten days I got a couple new welts at my mom’s place, where there were no bbs before. I am afraid I brought them there due to this procedure. Spraying clothes with Gentrol and Cy-Kick is not the way to go. He could have told me I had no choice but processing the clothes but he did not.
    - I was advised to buy a “cheap” mattress encasement. Of course it got ripped repeatedly. I realized cheap encasements don't work. They should not have advised me to get a cheap encasement.
    - There was a follow-up treatment done after 2 weeks, while I was away (I was away for three weeks and my landlord was present during the treatment). After I came back, in early January, I still got bit and called them again. They sent 2 kids who were instructed to spray chemicals in my bedroom area. I saw they were not detailed at all and asked them to spray more accurately. They did it, but they complained they were told the job was supposed to be a 20-minute job (!). One of the kids said he was the son of the PCO. He really looked and acted like a teenager. The other kid also did. I think it’s unacceptable that they sent out these kids. I called the company immediately when I saw them and was told they were very experienced, knew what they were doing, blah blah blah.
    - The kids decided to spray the perimeter of my drop-down ceiling, so chemicals dripped down of course and I later found out this is a serious violation. Some of the chemicals dripped on my clothes inside the wardrobe as the doors do not seal well. The drop-down ceiling is now stained with chemicals.
    - I was advised to throw out the wooden platform bed and I did it. I slept with my mattress on the floor. I was told I should use baby powder around the mattress on the floor as bbs don’t like it. I have no idea where they got that. Of course I got bit just the same. (Later I bought a metal frame and Bunkie board instead of spring box.)
    - In general, the head of the company, who is licensed but I don’t think anyone else on his team is, kept telling me I had no bbs, but he never inspected the place accurately or told me to get a K-9 dog.
    - I complained a lot and obtained my $300 back. Not the $150 of the preliminary treatment. And if I do have bbs, as I fear, they did make the situation worse. If it was an infestation at an initial stage (I had a couple new welts every few days), it could have been resolved then, had they been competent PCOs.

    Second PCO: The biggest problem I had with them was inconsistency of opinions and directions. I called these guys after experiencing many more bites after the last chemical treatment by the first company on January 8th. They scheduled an inspection, which cost $125. Their inspection was more accurate but they did not find anything. They said the chemicals must have dispersed the bbs. So why didn’t they tell me that upfront, instead of scheduling an inspection?? The guys who came to inspect my apt told me to remove every single object from my shelves and drawers and process all the clothes. After a weekend of mad work I realized I needed more details. When I called to ask, for example, how do I make sure I am not bagging objects with the bbs?, the head of the company said we should wait till I catch a live bb and he added they could not treat right after a chemical treatment. Again, why didn’t they tell me this upfront??? And again, why did they not mention the K-9 dog possibility??? Waiting till the infestation gets worse is not the way to go.

    I have actually contacted a third company who has an entomologist on staff. The technician sent for inspection by this company concluded I do not have bbs based on the unusual typology of my bites (everywhere, not just exposed skin and sometimes on my face and scalp, often single bites and usually very small, only sometimes very itchy) and on the fact that I never saw blood spots on my sheets, which are light in color. He inspected my apt with in mind this idea I do not have bbs. He found some carpet beetle larvae skins, but only a few (about 5 total). His opinion is that I have an allergic reaction to carpet beetle larvae. He suggested vacuuming the perimeter of the house and inside the heaters. I called the entomologist of this company to learn more about these carpet beetles and told him what the technician said. His opinion was different. He doesn’t think we can rule out bbs based on my bite typology and absence of blood spots. He thinks it could be a combination of both. So there is inconsistency even in this company.. I had my apt vacuumed by this company but welts keep appearing on my skin, now with the frequency of 0-6 new welts every day.

    Landlord: I live in a two-story house that is adjacent to two-story houses on both sides (so it’s a raw of two-story houses). I occupy the top floor. The landlord occupies the first-floor apartment but he is there only two or three days a week. He has not experienced bites and neither have the people who live to the sides of my apt.

    I started to seriously educate myself about bbs. I am reading the recently published Bed Bug Handbook (Pinto & Associates) and your great forum. That's how I learned about K-9 dogs. I am expecting a K-9 dog inspection on Tuesday and if I do have bbs, I need to decide which company to hire for treatment. I do not want to go with the second company. Maybe I will go with the third company, as I have not paid for the vacuuming job with the idea that if I have bbs I may negotiate a package for a lower price. This company is much more expensive than any other company I consulted. If you have any recommendation for a company that successfully got rid of your bbs in the NY metropolitan area, I would be very grateful to have it!

  4. bugbasher

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Sun Feb 10 2008 15:47:40
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    BBE,
    Wow, that's quite a story!Unfortunately,sufferers on this site have heard and experienced these things way too often.The problem with dermatologists is they're unlikely to verify scabies with a skin scrape.I've heard of many with BB's ,told they have scabies , no skin scrapes done, just useless medicine supplied( if you have bb's).So if you do go to the dermatologist,please insist on a skin scrape to verify a diagnosis of scabies.Scabies scrape isn't too uncomfortable,they need to scrape your skin with a scalpel blade,if you want they could certainly apply something to numb the area beforehand.If it's neg.,get some prescription strenth cortisone ointment while there.I told you how I finally captured a bug and at this point I highly recommend it.Worst case scenario is you lose some sleep (as if you haven't already).As for pco's, the first one should be ashamed of himself and have his license revoked,as well as his son in foster care.He's going to get himself sued sending teenagers out with chemicals. The second probably has been sued or he realizes the potential,which is why he wouldn't treat.He could have been more upfront,though.The 3rd is the one I would go with , having an entomologist on staff is very comforting because they are the knowledgable ones.If you can get him involved(assuming skin scrape neg. and you're unable to catch a bug on your own or bb dog says you have them) I would. He's the one most likely to be able to sort this out. Good luck and keep us posted,especially about the bb dog on Tuesday.

  5. bugbasher

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Sun Feb 10 2008 15:59:01
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    BBE,
    I forgot to say that even if you catch one before Tuesday don't cancel the dog,since targeted applications stand the best chance of beating them.Even if you know you have them the where is very important.Also , agood deal of people don't react to the bites at all(me), so the fact your neighbors seem uninfested doesn't mean they are.

  6. IveBeenBugged

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Sun Feb 10 2008 16:49:31
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    I think I would find a different dermatololgist. This is way more info on my than any of you need but I had the misfortune of having scabies way back in the 80's. While the itching and appearance is similar to BB bites all she had to do was a scraping (like bugbasher posted) to find this out.

    I would be even more concerned that she prescribed Elimite (I assume) when she wasn't sure if it was scabies - BB's or just an allergic reaction to something. If it is an alleric reaction the Elimite could make it worse.

    My regular doctor prescribed this for me when I asked about something to help with healing the bed bug bites (I think he thought I wanted to not get bitten for a night) after checking with the dermatologist I never filled that script. He gave me one for a stronger cortisone cream that was pretty effective in the itching department but I can still see many bites.

  7. (deleted)

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Sun Feb 10 2008 17:11:38
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    BBE,

    I don't want to say anything about the PCOs you describe. I fear if I start I will not stop. But just a word about the NYC situation.

    Do not expect perfection here. There is no such thing.

    The level of bedbug knowledge is not evenly distributed in the PCOs in this city and it's not even well distributed within the same company. Don't expect the technician and the office staff and the entomologist to give you exactly the same information. So, when you interview companies, concentrate on getting the right answers from the manager you are speaking with.

    Do not expect real inspections and do not expect a standardized approach. Do not expect even all the technicians who service your apartment to have equal professionalism.

    Many people here have gotten rid of bedbugs with NYC PCOs. But for every good mention that a PCO here has gotten, there is another person who begs to differ and sometimes there are even serious reservations voiced.

    I don't have a referral for you. To help you search the forums, some of the companies that have been discussed here by people I judge not to be trolls, in no particular order:

    Metro Pest Control
    Pest Away Exterminating
    Broadway Exterminating
    Stern Environmental
    Assured Environments
    Standard Exterminating
    Horizon Pest Management

    Needless to say, do NOT construe the above as a recommendation.

    Obviously there are many more, large and small, but these are some. Arguably some people who have wonderful PCOs never come here since they get rid of their bedbugs quickly. At least I hope that is the case and there are many, many great PCOs but who knows. I suggest you search the forums for more information on these and call to interview them. And I hope someone does have a referral for you.

    Good luck.

    (Also bb is right, no bites does not equal no bedbugs. We're told most people are not allergic.)

  8. bedbugsenigma

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Sun Feb 10 2008 19:38:11
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    Thank you all.

    As for BB's advice regarding the dermatologist, I did insist on the skin scrape, and she said the biopsy may turn negative even if I have scabies so the easiest way to tell is to try with Elimite and see. I checked on line and found that that is true about the biopsy (the result is not 100% certain). I have a prescription for two applications, one x week. Will do that if the dog doesn't find anything. As I said already, I would prefer to have scabies than bbs a million times!

    I do prefer to wait the dog's inspection because, as IBB points out, if this is an allergy it may get worse with Elimite. If there are no bbs, I think getting a second opinion is a great idea, so thank you for that too.

    Thank you also to 'nomo. I think the PCOs situation is something the mayor should get involved with. These companies are stealing money and causing major problems by not treating the issue at the time when it can be best treated. I now need to focus all my energies on getting this issue resolved but I intend to be active publicly on this. I do want to see the license of that first PCO revoked. If it isn't, he will continue to create problems to other people. I remember he was asking me if I could bring DDT from Italy because he has some desperate customers. Of course he does, he doesn't know how to fight these pests! If the state is releasing these licenses to PCOs who don't know what they're doing, there is obviously a problem there and it should be addressed! The license for bbs should be tough to get, these people should know every single line of the book I am reading by heart (the Pinto & Associates book I mentioned above), and they should keep themselves updated as research advances and new discoveries are made (ex., research on Gentrol).

    Now, as for the question whether my neighbors have bbs, I am really in the dark. I know some people don't react and if I have had bbs since October, wouldn't have they migrated downstairs to feed on my landlord when I was away for three weeks? My landlord is someone with skin problems (he has tons of red pimple-like things on his face and head) so I imagine he may not even notice a new welt that doesn't itch. If I had more money I would pay for all the necessary dog inspections but I really don't have that kind of money. After the treatment, is there ANY WAY TO KEEP THESE BASTARDS OUT?? Apart from what we know already about caulking, anything else? For instance, how about my drop-down ceiling? Shouldn't it be made permanent? Beyond it I saw there is a wood surface, one of bbs' favorite materials.

    Anyway, I will keep you posted on my K-9 dog inspection and thank you all again. It is so great to feel I am not alone in this nightmare. My mom may come all the way from Italy to help me out or I may truly loose my sanity if I have to treat my apartment by myself the way I should if I have bbs, with the laundry several blocks away and no car to transport bags. Plus I have hundreds of books and way too many clothes (being Italian, good clothes are my #1 vice). Not to mention that my apt would need structural modifications as there are a myriad of cracks in my hardwood floors..

  9. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Mon Feb 11 2008 1:00:37
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    You might ask the landlord if the dog can have a quick lap 'round his unit. The k9 unit may be willing to make a deal with you. Michael Potter of U Kentucky says 50% of people don't react to bites. Red marks alone CAN be a reaction (I know someone whose reactions were like that).

    hopelessnomo's advice is very sound.

    It's important, too, to remember that techs can vary so much.

    It's worth noting that talking to the manager about service you're not happy with can yield better treatment from the same company.

    The dog is a good idea but realize that the PCOs may not take the k9 unit's word (or yours). I suppose once you know, then one of the companies that don't inspect (and at least one is highly regarded by many) are an option. Because YOU will know, even if they don't.

  10. persona-non-bugga

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Mon Feb 11 2008 10:11:20
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    hi bedbugsenigma -

    Would you consider naming the PCOs you used previously? Especially the first one who's sending out unlicensed "techs" to apply treatments. He needs to be put on blast as a crook. I understand if you'd rather not, and I apologize in advance if this is an awkward thing to ask.

    I surveyed a few PCOs in NYC this past summer using the bedbugger questionnaire in the FAQs. I'd spoken to some of these same PCOs about two-plus years previous to that time when I was battling bedbugs.

    I was struck by the increase in prices over that time period. They almost doubled. Bedbugs are a profit boon to this industry. The industry has fixed prices at a higher level - making their services even more inaccessible to a lot of people. I might not begrudge them the windfall if they actually provided expert services that worked. But so many don't.

    From the list hopelessnomo provided, I've spoken to Gil Bloom at Standard. He's an entomologist and extremely knowledgeable and generous about sharing info to members of the public. I think he even teaches courses at the (community?) college-level. But I have no idea how he manages his techs & employees, so I don't have enough info to out-&-out recommend his firm. But I thought I'd share my experience talking with him personally.

    In any case, best of luck, bedbugenigma. I like your initiative getting the Bed Bug Handbook. Bedbugs are beatable. And when folks inform themselves, then develop and execute a solid strategy for fighting these bedbugs, success is common and should be expected.

  11. bedbugsenigma

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Mon Feb 11 2008 13:27:53
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    Hi persona, thanks for your good luck wishes. I just PM'd you. Have you been successful in your battle? What PCO did you use?

    And thank you to Nobugs too. It's a great idea to negotiate a quick visit to my landlord's apt. Will keep you posted. I am very anxious and could hardly sleep last night... Have 5 new red marks today...

  12. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Mon Feb 11 2008 18:09:48
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    I think I missed the part where bedbugsenigma said the techs were unlicensed. Do you know that for a fact? (I saw young and inexperienced, but it's not the same thing.) Unlicensed is, to my understanding, illegal, so you might want to follow up on that. But just be sure, is all.

  13. persona-non-bugga

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Mon Feb 11 2008 18:20:53
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    bedbugsenigma,

    I'm not sure how licensing for PCOs works in NY State. If there's just one governing body or if there are several authorities on the state and local level, any one of which could license a PCO to do business.

    The Dept. of Environmental Conservation seems to have some purview over pesticide businesses in NY State:

    http://www.dec.ny.gov/permits/209.html

    To complain about improper pesticide application and attempts to illegally procure DDT, try contacting the relevant regional office. For NYC, the number is (718) 482-4994.

    nobugs,

    bedbugsenigma wrote she suspected that only the head of the company was licensed and not the rest of the staff. I guess it's suspicions at this point(?), tho in my head I read it, probably incorrectly, as fact.

  14. bedbugsenigma

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Mon Feb 11 2008 19:59:40
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    I actually have the verbal proof the kids were not licensed. This is what happened. When I saw the kids I suspected they were not licensed. I then complained with the head of the firm, saying I hired him because he is licensed and did not want unlicensed people treat my apt. You know what he said? He said (and with so much arrogance!), this is not how it works in NYC. But the problem is that I have no testimonies.. All I want is to stop this guy from making more damage to other people. I will call the Dept of EC. I did call them before but did not mention this very important detail. Thanks for the info, persona.

  15. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Mon Feb 11 2008 21:23:57
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    I am checking on the licensing of techs vs. licensing of company issue, just to be sure.

  16. bedbugsenigma

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Tue Feb 12 2008 0:04:11
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    Wait, I did call the Dept of Health or whatever dept knows about licenses and I was told he had an individual license. He and another guy with the same last name do. Since it's a family business and 3 people sprayed my apt, including 2 adults and 1 kid, 1 of them does not have the license. Most likely the kid, his son. What should I do next? Call (718) 482-4994 and report the fact?

  17. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Tue Feb 12 2008 13:23:31
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    I have enquired of someone who works in the industry.

    This is what he said:

    All companies must be (licensed) Registered business with the
    NYSDEC. In order to register it must be done by a certified applicator.

    People who perform pest control service, must be one of the following:

    1. Certified Applicator, thirty hours classroom training, two state administered
    exams and two years supervised experience under the direction of a certified applicator.

    2. Certified Technician, same as above but lacking the two year experience.

    3. Apprentice, Must receive 8 hours intensive classroom training followed
    by documented forty hours on the job training with a certified applicator.
    This person is limited in what he/she can do on his/her own.

    ---

    So bedbugsenigma, are you saying the company was licensed? That's how it works. People are not licensed but certified. Maybe the kid was an apprentice?

  18. persona-non-bugga

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Tue Feb 12 2008 14:12:47
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    The PCO's son came in with another kid. Hmmm, wonder what the chances are of the second kid being licensed or certified. If it turns out they're just apprentices, would they be allowed to treat a home on their own?

    I'm going to look into what a Certified Tech, Certified Applicator & Apprentice are authorized to do, respectively. When customers hire PCOs, they could ask the techs who show up at their home what their certification statuses are. Might be helpful in assessing the quality of services rendered.

  19. (deleted)

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Tue Feb 12 2008 18:06:54
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    It's illegal to even possess DDT, much less use it.

    Spraying Cy-kick directly on clothes is an improper use of that pesticide and you know what that's called, a violation of federal law. You can find the label and MSDS for the product by googling.

    Whether or not the kids were apprentices, they were using a restricted pesticide and the certified applicator or technician was not around. That may be legal but it ought not to be.

    When the pest control industry complains about regulation and the delisting of pesticides--issues that deeply affect us--we should remember that this type of abuse is one of the causes for those actions.

  20. bedbugsenigma

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Tue Feb 12 2008 21:51:15
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    Thank you for finding the info, persona. I look forward to it. When that PCO sprayed my clothes with pesticide, 'nomo, I was wondering about it (is it safe for my skin??) and I asked the PCO. He said it was fine. At the time I was trusting the company and had not started educating myself as I did later.

    News from today is bad news. Vincent and Taz from Advanced K-9 Detectives found five spots with bugs in my apt: my mattress/bunkie board, the bottom drawer of one of my two file cabinets, the ottoman, three plastic bins with wool sweaters that originally were in the drawers of my wooden platform bed.

    Vincent and Taz are both really nice but we could not find a live bug. I needed a live bug for the landlord and also for the exterminators. Vincent tried really hard and he started taking apart my ottoman but then we felt it was not going to work. He said he started doing this job 6 months ago and did not know how to catch a live bug yet so with more experience he will get better. But I trust Taz's smell and I asked Vincent to speak with my landlord and the exterminators. He did and hopefully we can start with what would be my second treatment cycle.

    Good news is that according to Taz my books are bug free.

    If I can negotiate a reasonable price for follow-up visits, I'd like to work with Taz during the treatment process, hoping we can focus on specific areas to be treated and avoid packing my entire house. That would really mess up my life since I live and work in my apt.

    I really hope the third company whose technician was convinced mine was a carpet beetles problem and not a bed bug problem will cooperate quickly. Time is so crucial when it comes to bed bugs!!!

    PS: For those who live in NYC, you'll be happy to know that Taz and Vincent are often around, even if the company is based in Connecticut. Although Vincent does not have years of experience like Carl does, I think he's the best option in NYC. There is another guy with a K-9 dog, but the dog just started with bb detection only one or two months ago, while Taz has been doing this for about 8 months Carl said. Of course, one has to believe Carl's words..

  21. fightorflight

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Tue Feb 12 2008 22:10:32
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    Sorry about your bad news, but the dog thing is fascinating to me! in the bottom drawer of your file cabinet? I was wondering about that as I have/had two big wooden file cabinets. I'm glad I sanitized (baked in the oven) the important papers I pulled out of them. At the time, I was thinking, *this is silly* - not. I didn't do anything except bag my passport, though - it's got a laminate page and staples and I couldn't figure out what to do with it except inspect.

    I wish pest control companies could start expanding use of more advanced tools - dogs, Vikane - to other parts of the country faster. Too many bugs, not enough resources. I want to run for president as an Independent bedbug candidate. If elected, I promise to mobilize this country's resources for the war on bugs just like we did for WW II!

  22. bedbugsenigma

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Wed Feb 13 2008 0:46:11
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    LOVE THAT IDEA, FF!!

    My file cabinet is actually ALL metal so that's strange but inside it it's all papers and that's something bed bugs like - right? Also, the accuracy of the dog detection is 4 feet and close to the cabinet is a wooden dresser that in turns is right next to the bed. But Taz was very specific about that drawer.

    I was also surprised about the ottoman and the plastic bins because they are far from the bed and I don't spend time in that part of the apt at all, plus the sweaters were under the bed now almost 6 weeks ago. I found a piece of tape on one bin with some cast bb skin. Hope Taz did not mistake that for live bbs. I was thinking it would be nice to have a protocol in place for these dog inspections and have the dog demonstrate in front of you as being able to alert live bb in a container versus just the skin in another container.

  23. (deleted)

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Wed Feb 13 2008 10:48:00
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    bbe, this is the label for cy-kick: http://www.wmmg.com/pdf/label/Cy-KickCS_SPEC_v100_WEB.pdf

  24. fightorflight

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Wed Feb 13 2008 15:25:27
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    > I was also surprised about the ottoman and the plastic bins because they are far from the bed and I don't spend time in that part of the apt at all

    Wow, that is just so creepy. Drives home the lesson that you just can't assume they're not in anything.

  25. nightshirt

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Wed Feb 13 2008 15:35:33
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    i had success with horizon after hiring an a-hole person who just prolonged my agony.

  26. persona-non-bugga

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Wed Feb 13 2008 17:18:31
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    Here's an updated list of pesticides registered for use in NY State. Note, the list includes both restricted- & unrestricted-use pesticides.

    http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/materials_minerals_pdf/pestprod.pdf

    Cy-Kick CS isn't on the list. I also looked for cyfluthrin (active ingredient) and Whitmire (manufacturer) - couldn't find those either.

    Is it permissible for a NY PCO to use this product?

    This is the info page from the NYS Dept. of Environmental Conservation about pesticide product registration.

    http://www.dec.ny.gov/chemical/8528.html

  27. (deleted)

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Wed Feb 13 2008 17:39:16
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    It's there. You have to scroll as the search function doesn't work (puzzling that).

    I's under "Prescription treatment..." on page 246.

  28. persona-non-bugga

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Thu Feb 14 2008 0:14:27
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    Thanks hopelessnomo. You're a treasure when it comes to finding information for us laypeople interested (or, in my case, *cough* mildly obsessed) with bedbugs.

    I checked out the NYS Dept of Environmental Conservation - they regulate pesticides and licenses/certifications to do with their commercial application in NY State. Anyone curious about the certification status of the PCO employee sent to put down pesticides in your home? The DEC keeps a list ordered by surname -

    http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/materials_minerals_pdf/appweb.pdf

    I think I read earlier that certified applicators and techs are required to carry their certification ID and show it to customers upon request, but now I can't find the source.

    A study primer from Cornell Extension's Pesticide Management Program explains the difference between applicator and technician. The stuff between the ======= lines is a copy-and-paste quote from their site:

    ==========================

    A certified commercial pesticide applicator may:

    * Buy, use, or supervise the use of any pesticide for a commercial application;
    * Train other individuals who will make commercial applications; and
    * Distribute, sell, or supervise the sale of restricted-use pesticides if the applicator holds a commercial permit or is employed or contracted by someone who does.

    A certified commercial pesticide technician may:

    * Use general use pesticides without direct supervision; and
    * Use a restricted use pesticide under the direct supervision of a certified commercial pesticide applicator.

    Certified commercial pesticide technicians cannot supervise apprentices or other technicians.

    "Direct supervision” is the act or process in which a person applies pesticides under the instruction, control, and authorization of a fully certified pesticide applicator. The idea behind direct supervision is to make sure that the person being supervised understands the principles and practices for the safe and proper use of pesticides.

    There are three levels of direct supervision based on the environmental and health risks associated with the type of pesticide application:

    * Off-site direct supervision is when the certified pesticide applicator has contact with the person being supervised or can make contact within 30 minutes;

    * On-site direct supervision is when the certified pesticide applicator must be physically present at the application site and in voice contact with the person being supervised; and

    * Direct observation is when the certified pesticide applicator must directly observe the person making the pesticide application.

    On-site direct supervision is generally required when:

    # A person working under a certified private pesticide applicator applies federally restricted-use pesticides.

    # An apprentice applies federally restricted-use pesticides, aquatic pesticides to any surface waters of the State, pesticides with a label requiring on-site direct supervision, or pesticides within or on the premises of a licensed day care facility, elementary and secondary school and a hospital.

    # A technician applies termiticides, fumigants, pesticides with a label requiring on-site supervision, or aquatic pesticides to any surface waters of the State. Technicians may not supervise apprentices.

    =============================

    http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/facts-slides-self/core-tutorial/module02/index.html

    If you live in NY State and the PCO sends someone to your house and you feel skeptical about him/her, ask what his certification status is. If he can't produce ID or if tells you he's an apprentice, note what pesticides are to be applied. By state law, they must carry label information about these pesticides. If he's just an apprentice and at your home without a certified applicator present and it's a restricted-use pesticide, that's a violation of state law right there. If it's an apprentice or certified tech with no certified applicator present, then make sure the pesticide labels don't require on-site supervision by a certified applicator.

    If any NY PCOs have managed to read through this, please correct anything I've described in error. Thanks!

  29. bedbugsenigma

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Thu Feb 14 2008 0:21:02
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    Thank you, persona! I found my first PCO there, but not his son. I know their names. Now I need to focus on getting ready for treatment but will definitely do something about that.

  30. bedbugsenigma

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Thu Feb 14 2008 1:47:35
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    Forgot to ask something to nightshirt. I am happy you had success with Horizon but which one is this? Horizon Pest Management based in Brooklyn? Thanks, Anna

  31. fightorflight

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Thu Feb 14 2008 5:45:36
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    Nobugs & Nomo - what happened to your former titles? I liked them. They helped lighten the situation. Maybe you feel you've outgrown them.

  32. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Wed Feb 20 2008 22:07:22
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    Actually, FoF, I quite enjoyed them, but apparently some of our readers did not get the joke.

  33. paulaw0919

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Thu Mar 6 2008 8:55:02
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    HI Max and welcome. I don't mean to be rude in anyway but you have been a member hear for 38 minutes, never posted past or present experiences, and immediately respond to two posts on how wonderful Assured Environments is and that they have a K9 department. TO me it sounds like you are affiliated with the company and are promoting them. If this is the case it would have been smarter from a business point to have just introduced yourself as such.
    Please read this...http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/warning-bed-bug-professionals-please-read-this?replies=2
    If I'm wrong, I apologize.
    Since I have your attention, do you know if the company's K9's are NEDSCA certified?

  34. needtosleep

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Thu Mar 6 2008 9:12:03
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    I used Assured Environments and was impressed with their customer service; however, the last set of techs who came to my apartment didn't do a very thorough job. They missed some outlets (while powdering), seemed rushed, and gave me a bunch of "pheromone" traps, claiming that if I didn't catch any BBs on them, then I didn't have them--something we all know to be false. There are no BB pheromone traps on the market just yet. So much depends on the individual technician that I would request the same tech if you feel they're being thorough. I still have the bugs, sadly...

  35. persona-non-bugga

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Thu Mar 6 2008 9:12:43
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    max, you spoke with NEDSCA? What did y'all chat about? Know a little about their history, do ya? They've only been around a few years, huh?

    I'm gonna bet Assured Environment's dogs aren't certified with NEDSCA.

  36. St.BarthsBites

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Thu Mar 6 2008 10:23:44
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    Hi Max-

    Forgive me but Paula's post raises a legitimate question. Assured Environments gets panned by someone yesterday regarding the theft of a truck full of contents for a Vikane treatment and then all of a sudden a brand new member signs-up and makes 2 seperate posts recommending Assured. I'm not saying Assured had anything to do with the theft. Actually it sounds like it was the moving company's fault and not Assured's. But your posts sound like they are coming from some heretofore undisclosed angle.

  37. St.BarthsBites

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Thu Mar 6 2008 13:49:46
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    Max-

    You make a good point about the NEDSCA being in the business so its not like there are no conflicts of interest. There is a profit motive there but at least there are probably some minimum standards beign applie.

  38. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 11 years ago
    Fri Mar 7 2008 12:27:54
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    Max's comments from this thread have been deleted. I know for a fact that s/he is not a customer of the company s/he mentioned.


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