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Question about DDVP

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LVK9

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Posted 2 years ago
Mon Mar 29 2010 11:00:01
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I have two questions on the use of DDVP. I attended Pest World last year and listen to Michael Potter speak about how he tested DDVP and it effectiveness. In those test he place bed bugs in vials and then place those vials in various places.

Hypothetical questions, assume the correct amount of DDVP based on cubic feet of room is used.
1. Would bed bugs in a room that are free to move, try and move because of DDVP?
2. Would the concentration levels of DDVP be greater at floor level, up towards the ceiling or evenly distributed. No fans are used to circulate the air in this hypothetical room.
florida st

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Posted 2 years ago
Mon Mar 29 2010 14:12:11
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Hello,
DDVP is not recommended for bedbugs unless used in a sealed bag- I think this is because it will just spread them instead of killing them if they can escape it.

Also, the gas that comes off it is heavier than air, so it sinks slowly downwards. When it's used in small rooms for other bugs, it's generally hung from up high.
NewBlood

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Posted 2 years ago
Tue Mar 30 2010 23:18:13
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Hey LVK9,

I have not used DDVP before (and indeed I am about to ask a question on it myself here) but I believe that the bugs have been known to move away from chemicals used against them - so sealing away the items you are going to treat is more effective then leaving them open (I should think).

florida st had it right as well in that the fumes released will settle (or so I've read). Follow the label instructions when placing these things.

Lastly - I have a question for anyone who may know, and figured this is a good thread to ask it in since it's recent and all. I am looking to seal up my computer/monitor in trash bags and place some DDVP strips in them - I was wondering if this is an 'okay' thing to do or if I'm at risk of corrosion/destruction of the system. I'd rather pay for a bed bug treatment all over again then purchase my computer anew (it was terribly expensive). Thanks in advance!
florida st

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Posted 2 years ago
Thu Apr 1 2010 18:42:42
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NewBlood - 1 day ago »
Hey LVK9,
I have not used DDVP before (and indeed I am about to ask a question on it myself here) but I believe that the bugs have been known to move away from chemicals used against them - so sealing away the items you are going to treat is more effective then leaving them open (I should think).
florida st had it right as well in that the fumes released will settle (or so I've read). Follow the label instructions when placing these things.
Lastly - I have a question for anyone who may know, and figured this is a good thread to ask it in since it's recent and all. I am looking to seal up my computer/monitor in trash bags and place some DDVP strips in them - I was wondering if this is an 'okay' thing to do or if I'm at risk of corrosion/destruction of the system. I'd rather pay for a bed bug treatment all over again then purchase my computer anew (it was terribly expensive). Thanks in advance!

Hello, I am using Nuvan brand ddvp strips. On the package it specifies how they are to be used against bedbugs, and computer and stereo equipment listed as items you can treat.
Scarafaggio

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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Apr 3 2010 9:14:02
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DDVP.... there's a blast from the past. I think I last used it in.... maybe 1989 or so. It's pretty nasty stuff. It's a highly-toxic organophosphate with a high vapor pressure, and is also a suspected carcinogen (maybe a confirmed one by now; I've been out of that loop for a while). Back when I last used it, we were required to treat it like a fumigant, including taking air samples afterward with a Draeger. Nasty stuff.

Nonetheless, like a lot of highly-toxic stuff I used back then, the risks can be managed. DDVP is basically a fumigant, so you have to think along the lines of containment, half-loss times, and so forth. Not that you need to actually do all that math, but you have to think along the lines of keeping the gas level high enough to kill for a time sufficient to kil.

Using trash bags would work, but use heavy-duty, contractor-quality ones and seal them tightly. Folding the open end over onto itself and then sealing it thoroughly with plastic tape would be better than "twist tying" it. Extend the tape past the end of the seam a couple of inches and over the seam to the "back," So the entire seam is sealed. We used to do that with much more toxic products than DDVP back in the day.

I suggest if you're going to do this, don't do it in your living area. Remember that you'll have to open the bag eventually, and the accumulated gas will escape. Do it in a garage or some place like that.

Three or four days' exposure should be sufficient to kill bedbugs at 70 degrees F.
LVK9

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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Apr 3 2010 12:07:30
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Not that you need to actually do all that math, but you have to think along the lines of keeping the gas level high enough to kill for a time sufficient to kil.

Scarafaggio, I agree and in a confined space like a contractors bag the bed bugs are trapped so over time as the level of fumigant increases it would envelop the entire bag. If the levels are held long enough
(Michael Potter suggest two weeks as a minimum) the bed bugs would die.

Now what if the bed bugs are not confined but are in an infested motel/hotel room with rooms above, below and to the sides and a prostrip is placed in the infested room. How would the bed bugs react? Would they be chemically irritated and try to move higher assuming the initial levels are greater towards the floor. Would the fumigant be stealth like and not drive the bed bugs away? This is not something that I would do or recommend, but it is something I have seen.

My initial thoughts after seeing this were that the bed bugs would try and move away and probably higher to the floors above. Agree or disagree?
spideyjg

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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Apr 3 2010 14:01:54
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Any data about the efficacy on eggs? If effective on eggs the below SOP doesn't count.

I say 4 weeks. Week one the hatched bugs, week 2 waiting for any eggs the females laid to hatch, week three for the new nymphs, week 4 for good measure due to temp variances.

You are depending on a 100% kill or you get reinfested. Extra time doesn't hurt a thing but too little you are up a creek.

Jim
wchicago

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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Apr 3 2010 14:49:09
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hey spidey
i like your logic
when i used ddvp i used a 3 week period - based exactly on your logic for adult kill + egg hatch/nymph kill time. i could get away with 3 weeks because i controlled the temperature, and also used a small fan for air circulation.
in order to take no chances, i also had the sofas (heck, my whole apartment) cleared by a canine inspection a week after airing everything out. i was nervous (despite the canine all clear), but so far, so good. its been almost 60 days now and the living room sofas -home of initial and maddeningly difficult to treat infestation - seem to still be in the clear <knock wood>. no bites on me, none on the dog. whoo!

ddvp IS dangerous (as was well stated in posts above), but used correctly and very very carefully and given time to air out appropriately (with a respirator and plenty of fresh air for the unbagging)-it is a very worthy weapon in the battle. was my saving grace when all my pco's other chemical and steam treatments failed to cure the sofas.

i would be curious about whether they try to 'escape' the vapors though, no one has answered the question, and i have tried to find an answer (lazily, via google) to no avail. i caulked and also tarp sealed all potential points of entry/egress in the room i ddvpd just in case, but it would be nice to know whether they do try to escape the vapors or whether they just breathe them and die. i do think if they did try to escape it would by necessity be 'up' given the vapors are heavier than air and so concentrate downward at first.
buggyinsocal

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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Apr 3 2010 16:05:13
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While we're on the subject of DDVP, we've heard people say that it may have a corrosive effect. I think I saw a post that said it shouldn't have one if used for less than 4 weeks.

But is there any hard data on that? Can anyone point to specific articles that address that?

I ask only because, like spideyjg, I prefer to err on the side of caution in terms of length of time, but if it is corrosive and people begin using DDVP on items that can corrode, then longer might not always be better, and I for one would love to have reliable sources to cite when reminding people about those facts.
spideyjg

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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Apr 3 2010 16:38:04
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On the corrosion question it has to differentiate between the solid DDVP and the fumigant gas that emanates from a strip.

I left a dead hard drive in a container for 6 months with a strip and no observable corrosion to the components.

Jim
i hate buggs

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Posted 5 months ago
Mon Dec 5 2011 6:43:35
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wchicago - 1 year ago »
hey spidey
i like your logic
when i used ddvp i used a 3 week period - based exactly on your logic for adult kill + egg hatch/nymph kill time. i could get away with 3 weeks because i controlled the temperature, and also used a small fan for air circulation.
in order to take no chances, i also had the sofas (heck, my whole apartment) cleared by a canine inspection a week after airing everything out. i was nervous (despite the canine all clear), but so far, so good. its been almost 60 days now and the living room sofas -home of initial and maddeningly difficult to treat infestation - seem to still be in the clear <knock wood>. no bites on me, none on the dog. whoo!
ddvp IS dangerous (as was well stated in posts above), but used correctly and very very carefully and given time to air out appropriately (with a respirator and plenty of fresh air for the unbagging)-it is a very worthy weapon in the battle. was my saving grace when all my pco's other chemical and steam treatments failed to cure the sofas.
i would be curious about whether they try to 'escape' the vapors though, no one has answered the question, and i have tried to find an answer (lazily, via google) to no avail. i caulked and also tarp sealed all potential points of entry/egress in the room i ddvpd just in case, but it would be nice to know whether they do try to escape the vapors or whether they just breathe them and die. i do think if they did try to escape it would by necessity be 'up' given the vapors are heavier than air and so concentrate downward at first.

On the Q&A website there is a Question about smell...............so I am surmising they cant smell it so they just breath it in and die?????
(Is there an odor from the vapor action?
No, Nuvan Prostrips’ vapors are virtually undetectable by humans and pests.)
http://www.myadapco.com/res/pdf/literature/Nuvan_Strips_FAQ.pdf
Nobugsonme

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Posted 5 months ago
Mon Dec 5 2011 10:42:40
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Hi i hate buggs,

You just responded to a thread which is nearly two years old (check the dates above). It's not likely the OP is still seeking advice on this.

Please note also that recent research suggests DDVP isn't as effective as previously thought. This post leads you to a blog entry from Mike Merchant with more information on the research presented at ESA 2011.
i hate buggs

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Posted 5 months ago
Mon Dec 5 2011 11:33:02
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Nobugsonme - 43 minutes ago »
Hi i hate buggs,
You just responded to a thread which is nearly two years old (check the dates above). It's not likely the OP is still seeking advice on this.
Please note also that recent research suggests DDVP isn't as effective as previously thought. This post leads you to a blog entry from Mike Merchant with more information on the research presented at ESA 2011.

Oh sorry didnt notice..............I was just doing some late night reading because I couldnt sleep with all the worrying about my bb problem.............still getting bit but the pco said I dont have them (no evidence) and that I properly have fleas..............I am at my wits end !!! again sorry.
Nobugsonme

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Posted 5 months ago
Tue Dec 6 2011 13:43:38
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No problem!