Got Bed Bugs? Bedbugger Forums » How bed bugs are changing the world
Public health concern
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arachne
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Posted 11 months ago
Thu Nov 27 2008 1:34:22
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It amazes me, upon learning of the various means of transporting of bb, that there isn't more outcry about this as a WIDESPREAD public health concern.
We never had any bb situation until we moved to our new apartment; they showed up 3 months later so I don't know if they were here already, or came in on used furniture or clothing, since we bought both. Or a visiting person. Who knows.
As I expand my understanding of the places that bedbugs can hide, I am shocked to think of how many potential means of infestation there are. Not just thrift stores and flea markets (what an ironic name)... but:
1) public laundromats
2) public libraries -- I doubt people vacuum their books before a return! This is a big one for me, as my husband works at the library and we are voracious readers who constantly check books out... should we stop...?!
3) dressing rooms/clothing stores
4) linen/bedding stores which allow returns, which is most of them from what I can determine
5) public or multi-person ANYTHING -- like coat racks/coat checks, or simply visiting people who pile the coats together on the bed for a party.If a serious disease spread this easily, there would be total panic. Why is there not more being done by the city or local or state governments about this? Is it not widespread enough, or...??
Just mindboggling, the ease with which this nightmare can spread.
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vampiremenionprey
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Posted 11 months ago
Thu Nov 27 2008 1:51:02
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would you like me to send you the email i put together to try to educate those who are unaware?
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arachne
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Posted 11 months ago
Thu Nov 27 2008 2:00:29
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I saw it --excellent work. Thank you!!
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You would think that the public transmission of human parasites would generate some interest from public health authorities.
I have been thinking since the election that we might have an interesting opportunity to educate & lobby the incoming political appointees like the Surgeon General during the confirmation process to create policies to address the public transmission of bed bugs.
A statement from the Surgeon General defining bed bugs as vermin that pose a public health risk would give state & local health departments a basis for taking action.
One question that I have been mulling over is....What are the magic words that will facilitate an appropriate response from the federal government?
Do we ask the public health authorities to declare a public health emergency? public health concern? public health risk? public health problem?....Which combonation of terms will unlock the public resources that are going to be required to deal effectively with the spread of bed bugs.
We need to formulate the questions that need to be posed during the confirmation process & define the policies that we wish to see implemented by the governemnt to be successful in this lobbying effort.
We need to find ways to give bed bugs the political sex appeal that is required to get the attention of the decision makers.
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hatesbedbugs
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Posted 11 months ago
Thu Nov 27 2008 9:03:41
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Take me off your list of those attending the coffee klatch with the Surgeon General. Unless it is difinitively proven that bb's transmit disease I do not want my tax dollars to be spent on a problem which, can ultimately be solved by using isolation techniques. I see and read about the misrepresentation of PCO's in dealing with this problem. And I certainly don't want to perpetuate that kind of behavior. Moreover, I do not believe hotels/motels should he subsidized with tax payer dollars to solve their bed bug problem. I find it absolutely audacious on the part of people to ask that my tax dollars be used to take care of the motel/hotel bed bug problem. There are millions of people who do not use hotels in a given calender year or, ever. If the consumer wants to stay in a bed bug free hotel/motel or home then, they need to pay for that luxury. You may ask, how does this affect the renter? Bed bug free apartments would come at a higher cost for rent.
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MyWorstFear
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Posted 11 months ago
Thu Nov 27 2008 11:27:31
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Hatesbedbugs, just because you do not stay in hotels/motels, it's likely that the person next to you, in a restaurant, bus, train, taxi, supermarket check-out line, or the person who returned that book to the library that you just took out,etc., DID stay in a hotel/motel and thus it DOES affect you. Unless you live in a bed bug proof bubble, (if you do, please let me know where to buy one :)) you are not immune.
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HateBedBugs
I think you may have confused my suggestion that we lobby the Surgeon General to declare bed bugs vermin that constitute a public health risk with the bill currently in Congress that will provide grant money for states that wish to pass regulations & hire inspectors to cite establishments that have obvious bed bug infestations.
I don't know how much tax money it would cost to make the declaration that bed bugs are vermin that pose a public health risk, but you are certainly free to advocate for the continued spread of bed bugs throughout our communities, if you wish...
MyWorstFear is absolutely correct about the connection between members of the community that stay in hotels and the introduction of bed bugs into our homes. The view that it is a hotel owners problem is extremely shortsighted.
I wouldn't worry too much about your tax dollars being spent on the hotel industry....the Don't Let the Bed Bugs Bite Bill of 2008 is stuck in the Energy & Commerce committee and will likely die there at the end of this session.
While bed bugs do not appear to be a competent vector of disease transmission, there is reliable evidence that bed bugs constitute a public health risk.
You may want to read the World Health Organization's (WHO) recent publication which has a chapter detailing the health problems that are attributed to bed bug infestations before you comment any further on the health issues.
Isolation techniques are not going to be effective unless there is a coordinated effort which will necessitate the involvement of the government. The piecemeal efforts of local communities will never eradicate these human parasites without it.
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vampiremenionprey - 12 hours ago »
would you like me to send you the email i put together to try to educate those who are unaware?Sure please send me that letter to my email off of my blog. Just look at my profile here.
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dottie
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Posted 11 months ago
Thu Nov 27 2008 15:07:30
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I can't believe it either.
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hatesbedbugs
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Posted 11 months ago
Thu Nov 27 2008 20:02:59
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MyWorstFear, thank goodness this was in writing. if you re-read what I posted you will see that I never, stated that I do not stay in hotels. On the contrary I stay in hotels regularly. Moreover, I read the WHO chapter relating to bed bugs. Again, what I conveyed was, the blatant incompetence that resides in the PCO industry. Why would I want to give your hard earned tax dollars to the pest control industry to apply their regimes of chemical cocktails that, just don't work? There are stories replete through out the internet about the ineffectiveness of licenced pest control operates only detecting 30% of the bed bug infestation. No thanks! I'll keep my tax dollars.
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paulaw0919
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Posted 11 months ago
Thu Nov 27 2008 23:49:22
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"I do not want my tax dollars to be spent on a problem which, can ultimately be solved by using isolation techniques."
Sometimes, in MANY normal living situations, isolation just is not possible, period.
"If the consumer wants to stay in a bed bug free hotel/motel or home then, they need to pay for that luxury. You may ask, how does this affect the renter? Bed bug free apartments would come at a higher cost for rent."
I just cannot believe what I just read here. That will bring on a whole new social class. How ignorant can a person be? Our home was infested for up to 8-9 months before we started reacting to bites. I have always been a clean freak and these bugs took over our home right from under me, without me knowing it. This was over a year ago. I did as much research as I could, found the best PCO I could find, after 4 treatments and then 2 more...5 months later...still total control was not achieved. We literally gutted our beautiful home, belongings, worldly possessions to finally find vikane fumigation. I was not able to keep beds isolated due to two small crawling twins and a toddler at the time. We way more than followed protocol. Let's just say last winter was real fricking cold for me. We had a pretty darn good life before this experience, with $$ in the bank for a rainy day and emergency.
Now after bed bugs, I am very leary about where I go with my children and what we do. I cringe having my daughters coat in her cubby at pre-k for it is a shared cubby with later class.
How is it my fault or a luxury to stay bug free and still give my child a good education or a dinner out once in a while?? I don't let family here, ever. That was our source, we haven't traveled in over 6 yrs. We went to extended family for Thanksgiving this year. When I came home I calmly strip my kids in the laundry room and bring us all up to bathe. This is nuts. I changed the kids into pj's before we left for the trip home, but after coming back into the room, I find my now 4 yr old doing "summer salts" all over to show off her new skill. All because this extended family buys used items of craigslist, has multiple kids in college etc...???? Up to 70% of people don't ever react to bites, infestations out of control before they know there's a problem? Should I be taking these precautions? That's nuts. I cannot continue to do this for it's definitely mentally damaging to my children. I never let my kids roam the house in their pj's for fear that if we ever got them again the bugs may hitch a ride to another room. I want to be able to roam freely in our pj's and never worry. Right now I guess I cannot "afford" that "luxury" right now. With all the action that goes on in a happy home of children playing, the chance of bed bugs staying isolated to one room is pretty null.
All I can say is that the infestation cost us everything we had and then some. We are fighting bankruptcy this year due to bed bugs. So, may I ask? How much is the home owner supposed to pay for the luxury of not having bed bugs and be able to live a normal free life??? I think I paid enough thank you.
I don't know about others, but I cannot afford to do any type of descent treatment plan if this was to happen to us again. So if we were to get infested, I wouldn't be able to live the luxurious bed bug free life.I think I speak for many people in saying that I would be more than happy to give some tax dollars to control this bug problem. It's how and where that it is spent. Industry has a larger income to make up the difference. But what about the home owners, renters, families, elderly, disabled and our children for crying out loud. We're all together on this. At some point, it's got to come from somewhere long term. For the bugs are here to stay. Yes, there are many incompetent PCO's...and pretty much all pesticides on the market in the US are shit too. Something more needs to be done at this point.
Sorry for the rant, but feeling a bit sensitive right now and took offense in some things said above.
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fightorflight
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Posted 11 months ago
Fri Nov 28 2008 2:26:45
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I think the central point here is that this is everyone's problem, whether they realize it or not. If in saying that the problem can be solved with isolation techniques, you mean complete isolation from society, then you may be correct.
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BugsInTO
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Posted 11 months ago
Fri Nov 28 2008 10:25:00
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Spend Tax Dollars on an information campaign. If people are educated, they can take precautions to prevent infestation. They can detect infestations earlier. They can deal with their landlords and PCO's in an informed way.
If we all became knowledgeable we could reduce our risks and slow the rate of spread. If we all knew how to inspect hotel rooms, then we'd be down at the front desk demanding action and the hotels would be forced to deal with it. If we knew how to inspect apts, we could try to avoid renting bedbug infested units and landlords would have to deal with it.
We'd know to call Public Health and we'd post addresses and businesses on the internet and share information.
If we knew our rights, we would not be so afraid to deal with our landlords and to demand treatment. If we knew how bedbugs work, we'll be able to work better at an integrated pest control method.
If we knew more, we'd think about behavioural and social changes that would be beneficial.
The most stressful part of dealing with our infestation was trying to find all the information and trying to understand our situation.
For instance, my local goal is to change the format of our school's monthly "Movie Night." I love movie night. It's a junior kid's movie in the gym with popcorn and pizza. It's a fundraiser by donation for the school snack program. It's a blast and I love it. But the kids bring their blankets and pillows from home and sit in the middle of the gym while the parents bring deck chairs and sit around the outside. A lovely idea until I learned about bedbugs. Now, it's just a bedbug swap meet waiting to happen. We still go to Movie Night, but I bag everything as soon as we come through the door for decontination and we shower and change. I leave my chair outside. If the other parents knew what I know, I bet they would all be doing the same.
I hope to manage to get the school to stop the blankets and pillows and switch to exercise mats. But, I have to do my persuading without being too honest about my motivation. Again, if there was a greater societal knowledge of bedbugs, I am sure that this type of suggestion would be received with a much more open support.
Knowledge is power, both when it is given, and when it is kept secret. In whose best interest is it to keep the proliferation of bedbugs quiet? And if those interests don't match with yours, then what?
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losingit
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Posted 11 months ago
Fri Nov 28 2008 11:01:51
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Interesting topic here. I don't agree at all with paying more for bb free hotel rooms or apts. Simply. Will. Not. Work. The logistics and endless variables are far too numerous to control.
Should money be spent on education?
Damn right it should. The more people (ALL people) who know about it the better chance of dealing with them. I feel badly for hotels - they can't screen each and every guest for bb's and it only takes one. They need to check rooms regularly (I know some use a K9 to do this) and take action when a problem occurs. But that's expensive isn't it? Yet it has become the cost of doing business these bb days.
Tenants have no way of knowing how 'clear' an apt is, and by the time you move in and find out it's infested, well, too late, it's now YOUR problem. You don't want to stay and you can't move. Landlords and tenants need to be vigilant constantly, yet why should the landlord be on the hook if a previously 'clear' apartment suddenly gets bbs from a careless tenant. And why should a tenant have to fork out hard earned cash on encasements, drycleaning, bagging, laundry etc if someone else caused the problem. And how do you prove how and where they came from? Like looking for a needle in a haystack.
Pointing fingers is utterly useless in this situation.
We all have to know as much as we can and work from there. Yes, penalties for landlords who KNOWINGLY rent bb infested apts to unsuspecting tenants. Yes fines/lawsuits for hotels who do not take appropriate action when a problem is brought to their attention. More dedicated research to find a way to eliminate (yay!) this pest.
The local governments have to be willing to pay for the education, fund the research and create/enforce laws that penalize the landlords/hotels who just don't care.
The public has to demand action otherwise it is a non-issue.
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hatesbedbugs
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Posted 11 months ago
Fri Nov 28 2008 11:31:09
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People, you have not been reading my complete posts. My point is, why would you want your tax dollars to go to an industry that has failed miserably at eradicating the bed bug. If you look through this web site you will see were bb victims have literally had four as many as four different pest control companies attempt to eradicate their bed bug problem. I RETERATE,FOUR PEST CONTROL COMPANIES! That is sad.Pest control companies can't even completely identify the presence of bed bugs and eggs let alone eradicate them with their chemical cocktails. And you want to perpetually reward this type of service with our tax dollars. PaaaaaaaLEASE!
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Hi,
Just a quick though on this thread based on the fact that hotels do not spread bed bugs their guests and customers do. Weather you agree with hotels getting tax breaks to deal with the problem or not the simple fact is that they are suffering because of their customers leaving these as unwanted non paying guests.
Tax breaks may help to get the matter cleared in some areas but only education will help with the slow down of the spread of bed bugs. The major part of this is accurately explaining to people that it is possible to have bed bugs and not respond to them with bites.
I am most in favour of two key things that could make a massive difference:
- Making bed bugs a notifiable pest so that accurate data on them is collected
- making bed bugs a specific specialist pest so that only trained operative work on them
The first helps us to understand the extent of the problem and the second will ensure that only those who actually know what they are doing carry out the work.
Sometimes I think we all forget that we are at the cutting edge of a health and personal issue here. The people who read these boards for more than a few days are much better educated that most people on the subject of bed bugs. Until we get good reporting and education we are doomed to watch this problem grow and grow until someone takes it as seriously as it needs to be taken.
The only solid educational message that we can put out and get results from is that they are avoidable, that home checking is the key to early detection and therefore efficient eradication.
If you are worried about tax expenditure please look at the funding of the banks. As an ex investment banker I can tell you that we knew this was coming as far back as 5 years ago. I personally think those that profited over the last 7 years from passing bad debt from organisation to organisation in the form of transaction commissions should have been forced to repay the money and then the government top up what else was needed. They knew what they were going but were driven by greed, unless someone reports the issue a hotel may not even know they have a problem and they certainly did not deliberately infect their rooms.
I would also say please do not generalise and tar all pest controllers with the same brush, we are not created equally and do not all work in the same way. Soem of us are rather good at what we do and will even spend hours offering free advice either via the forums our in depth websites on the subject.
David
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hatesbedbugs
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Posted 11 months ago
Fri Nov 28 2008 15:02:42
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David, as much as, I would have liked to have poured my disdain out upon our public officials for bailing out the banks, I realized that this was a bed bug forum. I agree with your suggestions especially education. However, as long as the bed bug specialist was not limited to licensed pest control operator; I would agree with you on that suggestion. It appears that many of the bed bug victims on this site probably have more experience in dealing with bed bugs, what works and what doesn't then many Pco's If you are one of the honest Pco's, able to solve a consumers bed bug problem then you need to be applauded. What I suggest is that at your next PCO convention you take time to enlighten your fellow Pco's that the industry is suffering from an integrity problem.
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Hi hatesbedbugs,
I don't consider myself to be a PCO although I am a licensed pest controller in the UK.
I take on board your points about education within the industry unfortunately it is not something that is as simple as giving a few seminars. For example when I take on someone for training the process is something like this:
- Select suitable candidates - 1 - 2 months
- Take proposed trainee out on a few cases
- Offer job and start training
- day 1 all staff get about 350 pages to read on top of the website which takes a good 3 hours to read and digest including all the hidden specialist sections
- 2 weeks of trainee observing and learning the basis of an investigational approach
- 2 weeks learning how to conduct an inspection
- next 2 weeks learning the appropriate spray patterns for different types of properties and scenarios
- final 2 weeks the trainee leads and the trainer observes
[list]
[/list]If they make it through all of that then we send them off for chemical use and health and safety training on independent external courses after which they are allowed to work unsupervised.
The point I want to make is that only the last part of the program is compulsory, the rest is simply the way that we work. I agree that most generalist pest controllers are poorly equipped for this type of work but I am constantly amazed by the fact that technical ability is not always the first thing that people look for in booking a treatment. For example there are actually very few pest control companies that work to a level where they are able to produce their own images of bed bugs, this simple test can easily be used to see if someone actually knows what they are talking about or if they have simply paid someone to lift images from google.
If we are to push for regulation and high levels of eradication (I am currently at 60% of cases eradicated in one treatment and 98% in two treatments) but then again I am a little bit ahead of the curve in terms of experience because I contracted for one of the worst UK bed bug hotspots for years and often did 6 to 8 properties per day. Then again being a licensed pest controller should count for no more than the health and safety section of the skills and education needed because in reality bed bugs is such a different skill set to many other jobs you are more likely to find what you are looking for in CSI than PCO.
The problem you will have is finding people willing to teach outside of their own teams and how you remunerate them for passing on these skills. With all the best will in the world when I train I basically agree to work alongside that person for at least 2 months which is why I am so selective before I hire.
In the meantime all consumers can really do is research the subject and make educated and sensible decisions. I would have to say that after hiring numerous PCO some people might benefit from looking at the decision making criteria that are used to select who is hired. If that means you write the specification for the level of service you require and ask them to bid on the work you will at least get the service you are looking for.
David
Ok I am resting my tin foil hat for the weekend
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cilecto
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Posted 11 months ago
Fri Nov 28 2008 18:04:55
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arachne - 1 day ago »
It amazes me...that there isn't more outcry about this as a WIDESPREAD public health concern.For the same reasons many people:
- Eat foods that can hurt them
- Have sex that can change their life or kill
- Live or work in places that have been contaminated with toxinsBecause we prefer not to think about it and cannot or will not sacrifice, even when the crisis is staring us in the face and especially when "it only happens to 'them'".
:(
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Adele
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Posted 11 months ago
Fri Nov 28 2008 22:12:44
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You know I've been trying to wean myself off the forums so i can go on with my life - but I have to weigh in on this topic.
I may be skewered by the crowd here but I have to say that I agree with the position that Hatedbedbugs has stated.
My bedbug battle went on for 9 months and I went through the same pain that everyone here went through - only I did not have a landlord to bear the cost - I had to bear the entire cost myself - and it nearly broke me financially.
Still, I would NOT EVER advocate spending tax dollars on PCOs to fight bed bugs vis a vis a public program.
In my travels in dealing with these PCO companies - - to say the least I am NOT a fan of most in the PCO profession and I worked with about 5 or 6 firms - and I have NEVER encountered so many incompetent, unreliable, unprofessional, not to mention ineffective group, of people in my life.
I can't think of ANY other profession that is paid thousands upon thousands of dollars to just give a half-assed effort and NOT ever get the job completely done.
No my friends, the answer here is EDUCATION regarding the dangers of bedbugs - it is not lobbying to spend tax dollars on a group of companies that are already overpaid for the results they produce.
I wish I had the luxury of charging for my consulting services (I am a contract consultant) and say - well folks I will try to do my best effort but I cannot guarantee the job will get done and in the meantime you still owe me lots of money!!!
what a racket!!!
in my opinion most PCO's would not last a month running any other business in any other industry.
no I agree with Hatedbedbugs - we neeed to educate and inform the public
If we were going to lobby for tax dollars to be spent - in my opinion it shjould be to develop more effective chemicals or treatments not giving public money to these greedy incomptent PCO fimrs
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Who would you want to see applying the effective chemicals or new treatments, if we don't utilize PCOs?
Who proposed that we give any money to PCOs in the first place? I'm confused?
I didn't propose paying PCOs any tax dollars...nor does the federal bill that is before Congress.
I merely suggested that we lobby the incoming Surgeon General to declare bed bugs to be vermin that pose a public health risk.
All I am looking for is a statement from the Surgeon General that recognizes the adverse health effects that are associated with bed bug infestations. A declaration from the Surgeon General would give state & local health departments a basis to take action based on the SG heath effect statement.
When the SG issued a statement about the health effects of cigarette smoking in the 60s...It was huge...that was the turning point that led to the indoor clean air acts & to banning smoking on airplanes, in hospitals & restaurants, ect.
My favorite scene from Forest Gump is when the 50s doctor performs a medical exam on the child while smoking a cigarette. That kind of behavior was common before the Surgeon Generals health warning about the dangers of smoking.
The federal legislation that is before Congress would provide grant money to states that hire inspectors to cite public lodging facilities that have obvious bed bug infestations. The grants would also provide money for educational programs for the public.
The bill does not provide funding for PCOs to provide any treatment. It provides for regulatory inspection & educational programs only. The hotels, hospitals or other facilities that are cited would be required to pay for their own treatment or they would be subject to fines & be forced to close down by regulators.
There is really no need to be concerned about this legislation or your tax dollars. The federal bill to provide grants for the public lodging inspection program is stuck in the Energy & Commerce Committee & is scheduled to die without being acted upon at the end of this session of Congress.
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hatesbedbugs
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Posted 11 months ago
Sat Nov 29 2008 8:25:44
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Doug, the licensed pest control operators who come to homes of bb victims seeking relief now, can't find bed bugs. Moreover, they are not able to eradicate them, when they do find bed bugs. Are these the people that you suggest become the hotel/lodging bb inspector's? If so, tax the hotels. And if not, still tax the hotels.
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Who ya gonna call?..... Ghostbusters?
What does this have to do with a health declaration from the Surgeon General?
Maybe you should just change your screen name to IHatePCOs. Your message will go out each time you post (LOL)
I am proposing that we ask the Surgeon General to declare bed bugs to be a public health risk....You might want to actually read the comments you are responding to before you go off on a tangent with rabid attacks on PCOs that are completely off subject.
Clearly,..."I hate PCOs" ...is a popular topic....You might want to start your own PCO Hating Club....Hell, you could build a whole website around it....But PCO hating isn't the least bit relevent to the proposal to ask the SG to make an official health declaration that bed bugs pose a public health risk.
If you have a comment about the SG health declaration proposal that I am advocating...I welcome your input....I don't really care if you don't support the idea...Negative feedback is quite welcome, but please respond to the SG idea that is actually on the table....Any crticism will just help me refine the arguments to support idea in the political arena....If I can't sell this idea here...it will never stand a chance in a Congressional hearing.
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paulaw0919
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Posted 11 months ago
Sat Nov 29 2008 9:52:02
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Hi Doug. Your idea on the getting the SG involved is an awesome, awesome, idea. It in itself gets a huge jump to goal. It will give public awareness (as ciggarettes did back then...remember the commercials?) and get government in the door for assistance that is needed. (yes, people still smoke, but look at the difference now vs then. How much government changed laws to improve quality of life and how many less people smoke) It could make a huge difference in the spread of bed bugs and a great start. Definitely slow down the spread as least. Now is a very opportune time to do so as well.
Very well said and great to stay on topic instead of pointing fingers and playing the blame game.
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bitten123
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Posted 11 months ago
Sat Nov 29 2008 10:36:50
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I think the Surgeon General warning idea is fantastic! Knowledge is power, how many people if they just knew something about bed bugs could have prevented ever bringing them home, could have prevented spreading them to others, and on and on and on.
Doug, I think your idea is spot on!
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My comments are intended as friendly humor...the last comments do sound a little too harsh when I re-read them....I did bring up the federal bill in my previous comment.
I'm just trying to practice a little political advocacy here.
You seem to have struck a chord for some of the readers with the PCOs are an incompetent industry comment & don't send them any of my tax dollars theme...Which I think is a topic worthy of discussion...but we should move it to another thread.
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hatesbedbugs
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Posted 11 months ago
Sat Nov 29 2008 12:39:56
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Doug, I hate nothing and no one except bed bugs. Having said that, let me tell you what torqued my jaws. It was the your fifth paragraph reference to "unlock the public resources". I interpreted you comment to mean money, tax payer dollars from the United States Treasury. Money first comes to mind as being a locked up, public resource. Did you mean food as a resource or, possibly sprayer cans for applying insecticide? I guess those items could be locked up too, while being owned by our government. If so, I stand corrected. Please......help me here.
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Adele
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Posted 11 months ago
Sat Nov 29 2008 12:48:20
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Doug - ok let's stay on topic then and let's take a look at the proposal
I am not very good at using this quote function but you mentioned
"The federal legislation that is before Congress would provide grant money to states that hire inspectors to cite public lodging facilities that have obvious bed bug infestations. The grants would also provide money for educational programs for the public."
Ok - so let's take a look at your statement - and you should be seeking all types of dissenting and non-agreeing opinions as these are the same statements that could be used to kill the bill
1. having the Surgeon General declare BB as a health hazard is certainly worthwhile and accurte. It is also a broad enough statement that does not obligate public funds to PCO's (which I would fight with every fiber of my soul)
2. public funds for a broader BB education policy is also very worthwhile and noble. in some cities (like NYC) they are doing this now on a limited scale and broadening the scope would help
3."provide grant money to states that hire inspectors to cite public lodging facilities"
is where I take issue and the I hate PCO sentiment is very relevant here
Doug - so who are the companies or individuals exactly that would do the inspections? The very same PCO's who have only a 30% (at best) success rate in finding bedbugs? or the companies with bedbug dogs whose success rate is higher but still not completely accurate?
That point is where I have issue.
If the bill is just to have the Surgeon General declare Bedbugs a health hazard and provide public funding that is fine. If the bill also includes public money for inspections - well you should care a GREAT deal about whether we agree or not becasue I SWEAR I would travel to Washington DC myself and present the enormous stack of receipts that 5 different PCOs charged me for insepctions that produced nothing - UNTYIL I FOUND EVIDENCE MY SELF!!!
It would be a monumental waste of public funds to give grants to states to hire inspectors as they usually can't find evidence anyway - so who benefits?
Why not just propose that federal money be spent on providing the new bedbug monitors to the hotels instead as part of the inspection process?
the "I hate PCO" issue is not productive for a thread but is somewhat relevant because BECAUSE THESE COMPANIES ARE - FOR THE MOST PART - INCOMPETENT TO START WITH!!! And they should not be rewarded - or recognized with public funds for inspections
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Hi,
Coming back to this after a few cases today and I can only draw one conclusion. Regardless of the end point every journey starts with a first step. For my mind that first step is to lobby to get them made into a notifiable pest.
This is immediately result in accurate reporting of the issue and within 12 to 18 months for someone to have sat down and worked out how widespread this is. In making it a notifiable pest your force the hand of education onto the table and people need to be told why it is notifiable and public education from a central source will evolve.
Market dynamics will drive all the rest, standards will increase, specialist teams will develop and in time better products will come onto the market. The concept of R&D tax credits is a difficult one, you really need to take a lead from the pharmaceutical and biotechnology companies for that one. You may have the best potential drug in development for a crippling disease but sadly if not enough people suffer from it there is no funding to develop it. The regulatory approval processes for both industries are actually quite similar although new chemical products are somewhat cheaper than new drugs.
Yes this will all take time and there is little comfort for those that are suffering today other than the hope that if they help lay the foundation stones the future will be a little more stable.
David
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Adele
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Posted 11 months ago
Sat Nov 29 2008 13:00:51
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David - I agree with you completely - more education and a declaration of bb being a health hazard is where we should start
Then let the forces of free markets take over from there once the problem is recognized as the widespread terrible scourge that it is
One notable example of free market enterprise innovation is the Packtite unit - which I've found to be very helpful.
I agree that we need more widespread awareness to generate for innovations like that - but NOT public grants or funds for PCO's to do ioncompetent inspections
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On the SG proposal, I am looking for a coherent public policy.
The piecemeal approaches that are currently in use will never work.
A federal policy could get all of the state & local health departments on the same page & spur them to use existing resources to provide educational programs, for example.
If we can get the health departments to recognize bed bugs as vermin & treat them as a public health risk...we could utilize some of the existing laws that reference vermin (like rats) in the language of the statute.
The WHO report documents the adverse health effects...If we can get the government to define bed bugs as a public health risk ...we can put an end to the..."but bed bugs are not a vector of disease" argument & get focused on ways to halt their spread throughout our communities.
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Adele
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Posted 11 months ago
Sat Nov 29 2008 13:11:49
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Doug - on a broad level i agree - the SG declaration is the first step and then free market forces could come into play eventually to develop more effective detection and treatment means
just handing money to these PCO is not the answer
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Adele - 9 minutes ago »
David - I agree with you completely - more education and a declaration of bb being a health hazard is where we should startUnfortunately that one will fail. If you cant get people to agree that they are a health hazard directly through bites you will have to fight with medical professionals all the way.
However making bed bugs something that you need to notify a central resource about means that they get tracked, they keep the bureaucrats and civil servants happy because they have something to monitor and report on.
Bed bugs are fundamentally an environmental issue and best fit in that sector for tracking and analysis. Once the issue is reported to be growing with hard facts and numbers then public works programs and public education will be developed.
In some parts of the world PCO's have developed and adopted codes of best practice to establish levels of service and guidelines. It does not stop people calling in inexperienced people at first but it does help to define who the real specialists are.
I was actually thinking of using one of the spare domains to create a list of links of experienced bed bug specialists but its hard to work out the full criteria for selecting them and making sure they are not just good websites.
David
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Adele
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Posted 11 months ago
Sat Nov 29 2008 14:40:12
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WEll ok - I appreciate your input as always David - but then we are back to funding inpections with incompetent PCO's who couldn't find a bedbug if one was walking across their face
I - for one - would most certainly lobby vehemently against any proposal that includes grants for inspections - presumably done by PCOs - as they are the only ones who would benefit
ie..."Who ya' gonna call?"
we might as well hand out the new bedbug monitors to the hotel industry because at least WE KNOW those monitors are not completely effective and we as a public will not be duped, lied to & deceived by these PCOs that claim they know what they are doing and in fact do not
This isn't a matter of the usual "I hate PCO" line - this is a serious issue of negligence and mis-information and misrepresentation among that group of so-called professionals
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David,
Have you seen any evidence of staph infections or MERSA associated with bed bug wound sites?
I think you are right, the skin puncture issue is the easiest health effect to document & use to demonstrate widespread harm across different populations.
Have you seen any evidence of asthma problems with clients that are exposed to bed bug infestations? Asthma is listed in the WHO report, but some could still argue that the association isn't sufficient to warrant a health warning at this point.
Anemia is well documented and the WHO document refers to a general malaise that has been observed, but the question will focus the merits of the scientific evidence & there haven't been very many studies published on the health effects.
Mechanical transmission of disease appears to be theoretical at this point without documented cases to present as evidence.
Politically, it will need to be seen as a populist move that will reduce human suffering & help bring a coordinated response for curtailing the public spread of these parasites.
If the political climate is right, I would hope that the medical evidence listed in the WHO report might be sufficient. Otherwise we will be looking at waiting for several years for the research findings to reach the critical mass necessary to prompt reclassification of this pest as a public health hazard.
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arachne
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Posted 11 months ago
Sun Nov 30 2008 1:10:59
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I think this is what I found most alarming in hatesbedbugs's post:
If the consumer wants to stay in a bed bug free hotel/motel or home then, they need to pay for that luxury. You may ask, how does this affect the renter? Bed bug free apartments would come at a higher cost for rent.
So, let the free market handle it. That way, the poor would just be infested, and too bad for them. They should have worked harder! (No matter if they work more and harder in one week than white collar middle managers work in a month.) Mere virtuous effort will make you prosperous, according a certain kind of American mythology... and if you aren't prosperous, it's your fault... and you more or less deserve all the attendant miseries that come with poverty. Like, oh, say, bedbugs for example.
From what I can tell, bedbug infestation is already heavily skewed towards the poor. Not because they are stupid and unclean and deserving of their vermin (not that you said this, hatesbedbugs, but you know it's been said)... BUT in reality, because they live in multi-family housing, use public transportation, use public laundromats, buy used furniture/clothes/toys/everything, cannot afford PCOs, and of course are simply not educated about bedbugs.
But who IS properly educated about bedbugs right now, except for pro-active literate people like the ones who post here, who have enough leisure and equipment access and internet familiarity to find sites like this in the first place? (A truly excellent site and excellent forums, I might add.) I'm an educated and aware person, and I'd never even heard of the bedbug issue till recently, when I did research.
I don't know. I guess this attitude of extreme coldness and apathy towards the poor disturbs me. And not only will it not help the bedbug epidemic -- it will do the exact opposite. As others have pointed out, no one exists in a bubble. This affects EVERYONE. Which is why something public-health-related needs to be done about it, which means something governmental.
Of course I don't want my tax dollars to go towards incompetent PCOs (no more than I want them to go to incompetent CEOs or incompetent military strategists, which they already do). But I would be THRILLED if my tax dollars went to universities, laboratories, etc. to fund more research on the best ways to detect and eradicate bedbugs everywhere.
Also, it won't be useful for the bedbug solution(s) to be expensive and thus available only to some. We need something available to ALL, or the problem will persist, by its very nature! Which is precisely why 'the market' shouldn't be allowed to decide how much it should cost to deal with bedbugs.
If only 'the market' dictates who can afford successful bedbug eradication (which is already the way it is, I suppose), then various enterprising folk -- patent holders, PCOs, whomever -- will just make good money off those who can pay... and they will make it over and over again for repeated eradication, as the problem at large gets worse and worse, and re-infestation becomes inevitable. It has to be a comprehensive solution, or it won't be a real solution at all.
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Hi Doug,
Interesting post and one worth a near medical autopsy.
In the case of bites becoming infected these are all secondary infections, in short if a would gets infected with Staph, MRSA or anything else it has the same risk as you getting infected from a knick or shaving cut. It is the cut that is key not the fact that it was caused by bed bugs.
Now Asthma, yes bed bugs can be an antagonist of Asthma in some asthma sufferers but so can cigarette smoke, dust, pollen, spores some plants, some inert chemicals. So I don't think we can claim that bed bugs cause as much asthma issues as pollution from vehicles and yet SUV's are still sold, oddly enough mainly to warrior mummies who want to protect kids by polluting their environment. Basically I don't think we will get a take up on this issue.
Anaemia, yes after extensive or prolonged exposure to significant numbers of bed bugs anaemia can be an issue. The last person that I am aware of to die from a bed bug encounter was in about 1850 with death listed as the equivalent of advanced anaemia. I have seen anaemia issues in a few bed bugs cases but mainly the 8,9 and 10 out of 10 infestations. The solution is simple a Iron supplement in the diet and full health is restored in a matter of weeks. No please bear in mind that an 8,9 or 10 scaled infestation can have up to 150,000 live samples feeding at any one point in time I respectfully suggest that going down this route will also not work unless you are telling me that you have that many bed bugs. If you don't then you don't need a PCO as much as an optician because at that level the signs are everywhere and should have been detected a lot sooner.
The fact is that unless you have a boolean eruption level of reaction and I am yet to see a single picture of that level of reaction posted via this site then bed bug bites will not scar, it is the scratching of them that causes scaring but mainly through the secondary infections that get introduced.
I am however doing to throw this one back to the floor for further explanation:
we might as well hand out the new bedbug monitors to the hotel industry because at least WE KNOW those monitors are not completely effective and we as a public will not be duped, lied to & deceived by these PCOs that claim they know what they are doing and in fact do notHow do you know monitors are not 100% effective and on what basis is that statement made? Which monitors are you referring to as well, I am aware of 3 systems coming soon one I know works in a passive mode and 2 active monitors which I am trying to arrange testing on at the moment.
I would also like to suggest that those who feel they have had poor pest control service should form a thread to work out how they will in future be able to tell good pest controllers from bad ones. After all having been through the process once, twice or a few more times you are best positioned to offer advice to ensure others do not fall into the trap. Now its not as simple as just getting lists of OK companies because its the technician who does the work and the sharp end of the job but the company who train and support them and companies create names to look like others. I have 2 or 3 pseudo competitors to me in the UK and yet from my perspective I don't consider that they work at the same level as we do which is evident from the fact that we have more supporting information than any other pest control company in Europe and certainly top 5 world wide.
It is an issue that needs dealing with the current debate of lobbying for health risks will always fail because there are greater dangers out there that are also lobbying. I come back to making it notifiable will generate accurate data and a better understanding of the spread. Once it is seen as an issue rather than a media frenzy then action will be taken.
David
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DeathToBBs
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Joined: Jan '08
Posts: 83
Posted 11 months ago
Sun Nov 30 2008 12:36:55
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BBcoukHome said "How do you know monitors are not 100% effective and on what basis is that statement made?" ...because, in this world, nothing is 100%...nothing!!
Not 100% people who smoke die from smoking;
Not 100% people who have bbs react to the bites;
Not 100% who eat McDonalds and fast food develop diabetes and high chloresterol;
Not 100% of anything happens except maybe the extremes like everyone who gets cut bleeds or everyone who comes into contact w/flames burns. -
David
Your point is well taken.
Clearly, it will be an uphill struggle, if we have to rely on the weight of the scientific evidence.
This will need to be a political movement as well, if it is going to be successful.
Making bed bugs a reportable pest would be a major step forward.
We need to lobby for a system that tracks & maps infestations in the US. I don't think that anyone has an accurate estimate for the number of households that are infested with bed bugs in this country.
I read with great interest the news story about your efforts to map the available data in England & I look forward to the release of your published study.
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I am 100% sure that I will die at some stage, in fact I am 100% sure that at some stage given current technology we will all die.
Seems that not even the fact that nothing is 100% is 100% accurate.
All we can do is the best that we can with the tools, knowledge and information we have available.
Doug, we will release some of the results after the mini conference on 15th December but to date do not have plans on a full publication of the results. Some of the data is obviously rather sensitive and we would not want to be responsible for a localised drop in housing value given the current economic climate.
David
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ineedrelief
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Joined: Dec '08
Posts: 22
Posted 11 months ago
Mon Dec 8 2008 15:48:55
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Although I've heard no evidence of spreading physical disease, hasn't mental health been considered a disease for a number of years now. Now I've been reading on many of these forums, stories of people on the brink of suicide, commiting suicide (whether intentional or not), having to go into therapy, etc. And they don't want to consider the remote possibility of this being a health problem? And as far as a public health concern, I live in a Public Housing hi-rise for the elderly and disabled and when we've been known to have an infestation all they do is visually inspect ALL apts. (and it's a maintenance man, not a professional), have all these people get rid of all harboring furniture (which being on limited budgets, I know they go out and buy all used furniture again, if any), don't treat even the infested units (let alone the whole building) and it becomes a vicious cycle!!! And it's like this for all the high-rises in our city. So pardon me if I consider this a problem. Public health officials need to be more aggressive in these concerns. I mean really, an exterminator comes in every 3 mos for roach prevention, how much harder would it be to periodically treat for BBs. It makes no sense!!!
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your host
Joined: Mar '07
Posts: 5,547
Posted 11 months ago
Tue Dec 9 2008 22:58:09
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arachne - 1 week ago »
I don't know. I guess this attitude of extreme coldness and apathy towards the poor disturbs me. And not only will it not help the bedbug epidemic -- it will do the exact opposite. As others have pointed out, no one exists in a bubble. This affects EVERYONE. Which is why something public-health-related needs to be done about it, which means something governmental.Right on, arachne.
As long as someone in your community is allowed to have bed bugs, you have the potential to be exposed again.
Unless you want to seal yourself off in a bed bug-free zone (i.e. stop going out in public), you had better try and help make sure everyone can get rid of bed bugs. Or as many as possible, to improve your odds.
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bedbuggery
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Posted 4 weeks ago
Fri Oct 23 2009 20:27:00
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BBcoukHome - 10 months ago »
Hi hatesbedbugs,
I don't consider myself to be a PCO although I am a licensed pest controller in the UK.
I take on board your points about education within the industry unfortunately it is not something that is as simple as giving a few seminars. For example when I take on someone for training the process is something like this:
- Select suitable candidates - 1 - 2 months
- Take proposed trainee out on a few cases
- Offer job and start training
- day 1 all staff get about 350 pages to read on top of the website which takes a good 3 hours to read and digest including all the hidden specialist sections
- 2 weeks of trainee observing and learning the basis of an investigational approach
- 2 weeks learning how to conduct an inspection
- next 2 weeks learning the appropriate spray patterns for different types of properties and scenarios
- final 2 weeks the trainee leads and the trainer observes
[list]
[/list]Wow, you have a fantastic insight into the problem. Thank you for your hard work and I wish we had professionals of your sort in the US.
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stevebeast
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Joined: Aug '09
Posts: 32
Posted 3 weeks ago
Sun Oct 25 2009 13:41:35
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Personally i would love to pay a little more in taxes to live bed bug free, though that doesnt seem possible because they are so hard to get rid of. Tax dollars subsidize many industries that do far less for society than erradicate bed bugs. The fact that so many people have used many PCO's to no avail demonstrates that bed bugs are a problem that the idividual and industry is unable to handle, that is the reason we have govenrment to handle problems that the people cant. I am not saying funneling money to a PCO is the answer, but a lot could be done maybe a grant to find the better way to treat them. I know i would feel better if the drug dogss at the airport were trained to smell bb, in fact even the smallest police department has a dog. To merely inform the public there is a scurge of blood sucking parasites in our cities and if your caught you are screwed is a failure of government.
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Okay so as I am reading this thread Something pops into my head!! My kids have been begging me for years to get a dog I would never get one cause they are too expansive to properly take care and and I don't want to be the one to clean up after it!! Hence I am thinking Gard dog not just to protect the family BUT the inform me of BB!! think about all the possibility No more worries!! I would be willing FULLY to take care of an dog that can sniff out BB!!Where can I get me one!! It would be a load off my mind and CHEAPER than having a PCO out all the time!! you don't have to worry about going ANY where you go all you have to say is seeing eye dog they have to let the dog in then!!And to top it off My kids would be ecstatic!!
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meremortal
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Posted 3 weeks ago
Sun Oct 25 2009 14:39:04
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Doug and David: Ditto!
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Odd that this thread popped up again because I have spent some time this weekend with a friend who works at a large US public health body. I cant post which one because it would affect the hard work she has been doing for us on the inside of the organisation.
The bottom line at this stage is that without better control strategies and measures in place the BB issue is seen as a poison chalice. No-one will take it on for fear of their jobs because at present its such a hard issue to tackle and the more pervasive it becomes in society the harder it is getting.
Yes education is the first step but when people are educated they need better control measures. Thankfully I think we can all agree that control strategies and detection have started to improve but it can be a complex issue. I have seen lots of people blame PCO's for a lack of control only to eventually realise that the neighbour is the source or the office / commute is the source.
Sadly part of education now needs to be a better understanding of the complexities of the issue and what steps people need to be taking to assist PCO's in getting to the source of the problem in the first place and that sometimes lack of control has as much to do with how they are getting into the property as what is being done to control them.
Yes I am biased in my view of the world but as I have evolved my work based on what I see in the field its no great shock to see that my treatment guide has grown from its original 3 pages in 2005 to the current 58 page version.
David
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