Got Bed Bugs? Bedbugger Forums » Tools/ideas for fighting bed bugs
Protection in a movie theater
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jrbtnyc
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Posted 1 year ago
Tue Jun 21 2011 14:14:16
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(Asking experts here on bedbugger.com to evaluate the following proposal. I don't have current access to bugs so I can't test it further than I already did earlier this year with several adults and a few dozen immatures. Some of you do have access to *lots* of bugs so you could test it large-scale. By all means criticize this proposal if you're convinced it won't work, but please, only if you do testing of your own which *proves* it doesn't work.)
See for instance itchygirl45's questions at http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/advice-for-protecting-ourselves-at-movie-theater :
itchygirl45 - 3 hours ago »
My children are begging to go to the movies, but I am terrified of bringing bedbugs back home with us. Any advice? Should I spray the kids, husband, me & the movie theater seats and floor with Rest Easy? Is that safe? Would it do any good? I am also planning on throwing all of our clothing and shoes in the packtite as soon as we get home, but would love to do whatever I can to minimize bringing the bugs past our front door. Thanks!!!!When you go to the movie theater, bring white sheets to throw over the seats and sit on the white sheets. Bed bugs likely won't have sufficient time to climb out from under the sheets onto you during the movie. Plus you can check occasionally and if any bugs do get onto the sheets they'll be visible enough that you can do away with them. Maybe bring a small flashlight to make it easier to check for bugs on the sheets a couple of times during the movie. Also it won't hurt if you have worn light-colored clothing to the theater so any bugs crawling on you (unlikely I think if you follow this method) will be easily visible. At the end of the movie after you leave the movie theater, visually inspect the white sheets to make sure no bugs are on them; and for good measure you can sequester the sheets in a plastic bag and run them through your dryer on hot or your PackTite when you get home.
Aha but what about your feet.
My tests indicated bed bugs absolutely cannot climb hard smooth semi-clear plastic used to make common inexpensive basins such as this kind from the Container Store (a company with which I have no affiliation):
http://www.containerstore.com/shop/storage/storageBoxes/plastic?productId=10000166 .
[Nobugs, for reader convenience I'm leaving this URL intact since it's for generic merchandise not bedbug-oriented merchandise.]
So you can buy such basins and bring them to the movie theater and keep your feet in them during the movie.
As to Container Store basins, you could get for instance:
• one Sweater Box 10008761 $5.99 for each person which is a good size that you can keep both feet in comfortably; or
• two Shoe Boxes 10008759 $1.79 each for each person who has relatively small feet/shoes; or
• two Men's Shoe Boxes 10008760 $3.99 each for each person who has relatively large feet/shoes.
The advantage of using two separate boxes rather than one larger box is that with separate boxes you can move your feet around independently which can be a plus if you get restless.
Of course there are lots of similar boxes from other providers such as Steri-Lite, Rubbermaid, and Bed Bath and Beyond.
It needs to be the hard smooth semi-clear type of plastic, not frosty and not colored such as white.
This method with the sheets and basins may seem like a bit of trouble at first but I believe it will work and you'll get used to it and pretty soon you'll be regular moviegoers again.
By the way, in my view you can use this same strategy at home for sitting on your couch or in any chair or recliner, etc. while watching television or the like.
jrbtnyc
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Posted 1 year ago
Tue Jun 21 2011 15:13:09
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Alternatively you could just have a big box inside your home to step into when you get back from the movies. Remove your outer clothes and decon as per the FAQ's.
It would seem both more rational and certainly easier.
BTW - if you don't thing a bedbug would have time to crawl out from under a sheet to feed and return to its hiding place during a movie you have a lot to learn.
You also need to understand that once a bedbug has found a home with good availability for food it wants to stay there not come home or travel on to an uncertain environment.
David Cain
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Posted 1 year ago
Tue Jun 21 2011 15:43:10
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Yes, while not an expert, I feel pretty confident saying this isn't an effective or practical plan.
Taking a sheet to a movie theater not only won't protect you from bed bugs on the seat, but it would seem to make it easier, not harder, to bring home hitchhikers -- via the sheet.
And I agree with David that decon at home would be easier as well as less embarrassing.
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Posted 1 year ago
Tue Jun 21 2011 15:44:34
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And just to add to that, putting a sheet on your furniture at home also won't keep bed bugs from biting while you sit on it.
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jrbtnyc
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Posted 1 year ago
Tue Jun 21 2011 16:40:04
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bed-bugscouk - 1 hour ago »
...
BTW - if you don't think a bedbug would have time to crawl out from under a sheet to feed and return to its hiding place during a movie you have a lot to learn.
...Well then I guess I have a lot to learn. I think this will work. Respectfully has anyone *tried* it.
Once the sheet is thrown over the movie theater seats or over your couch or chair or recliner at home, the bug has to start searching for a way out from under it. The presence of the sheet tends to inhibit the bug's motion, plus it doesn't know which way to go, so it can't just run out from under in two minutes. All else being equal, using a larger sheet makes more searching necessary for the bug, and a longer distance it has to go to get out from under. If the movie theater isn't packed, you can easily have the sheet extend out a significant distance from where you're sitting to make more work for the bug. Plus if it does find its way out from under the sheet, your light-colored clothing that you're wearing, plus the white color of the sheet, gives fairly respectable odds the bug is going to be visible so any encounter goes in the human's favor, not the bug's favor. Or maybe it can try to bite you through the sheet – good luck bug, finding exactly the right place to position yourself such that your proboscis doesn't just hit air as it goes through the sheet, it hits the human's skin with still enough leverage to penetrate it, lucky that you didn't encounter any clothing the human may be wearing thus further increasing the distance your proboscis has to go and resistance it encounters, plus even luckier you found a position where the human isn't *sitting on you* i.e. game over.
The point is, let's try it if no one has tried exactly this, both in a movie theater setting and a home setting.
If it turns out bugs can easily bite through generic sheet cloth, okay let's find some variant kind of sheet that's still widely available and cheap that bugs *can't* bite through as easily. Maybe some version of the kind of material that's used for mattress encasements.
As for the worry about bringing bugs home in the sheets – as I mentioned, of course you can put the sheets through your dryer on hot, or your PackTite, when you get home. Therefore how can that aspect still be a worry whatsoever? And of course you could *also* decontaminate your person(s) in additional ways such as showering etc.. But note itchygirl45 said she wanted to "minimize bringing the bugs past our front door" in the first place. That makes a lot of sense doesn't it; wouldn't most people have that sentiment. For one thing what if folks are driving home in their car. Not everyone has the benefit of London or New York City mass transit.
* * * *
Any comments concerning the foot protection aspect? Would anyone duplicate my tests with this particular type of plastic/basin to confirm bugs can't climb it and thus it may have many possible applications in addition to movie theaters and couches/chairs/recliners at home?
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Covky
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Posted 1 year ago
Tue Jun 21 2011 16:40:27
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I have decided to never use a theatre again unless it is outdoors, metal seats and assigned seating.
That is the limit of my paranoia in the future (at least I am doing my best to make it so) but I just cannot conceive of living in the number two city for bedbugs in the US and not having it be a problem. We have movie theatre here that is a huge multiplex and there are bed bugs in it. Until I see 10 thermal trucks, and a Vikane guy or two along with pesticide crews shutting the place down for a month I cannot see them actually fixing it.
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jrbtnyc
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Posted 1 year ago
Tue Jun 21 2011 16:54:38
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Covky - 13 minutes ago »
I have decided to never use a theatre again unless it is outdoors, metal seats and assigned seating.
...Hey great news in skeeterville.
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Posted 1 year ago
Tue Jun 21 2011 16:58:06
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jrbtnyc - 12 minutes ago »
bed-bugscouk - 1 hour ago »
BTW - if you don't thing a bedbug would have time to crawl out from under a sheet to feed and return to its hiding place during a movie you have a lot to learn.
Bed Bugs LimitedWell then I guess I have a lot to learn.
Yes at last we agree.
Now the starting point is to get out and do field biology. Actually study how the insects behave in peoples homes, offices and public spaces and then I am sure your creative mind will start to see the patterns, the logic and eventually come up with viable solutions.
At present you are applying your perspective of logic and human intuition which is not how insects think, act nor behave. As such 99% of what you plot is not based on viable fact.
This is exactly the same reason why some pest control consultants rapidly turn into dejamoo merchants and simple regurgitate what they have been told rather than getting out into the field and learning the hard way.
David
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Posted 1 year ago
Tue Jun 21 2011 17:11:05
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It seems like the sheet would also provide bed bugs with another way to climb up to you from the floor or other parts of the chair.
The foot covering is moot if bed bugs can climb up the chair's base.
Jrbtnyc,
One problem with people testing this is I am not sure how Bedbuggers would know if they were bitten while sitting in the chair.
Keep in mind bed bug bite reactions almost never happen immediately. Most people do not notice they were bitten until hours or days later. Most people probably have no clue what the time delay is.
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jrbtnyc
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Posted 1 year ago
Tue Jun 21 2011 17:29:11
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Nobugsonme - 3 minutes ago »
It seems like the sheet would also provide bed bugs with another way to climb up to you from the floor or other parts of the chair.
The foot covering is moot if bed bugs can climb up the chair's base.
...Was I not specific enough in my description. Of course the sheet will extend at least part of the way under the plastic basin. So if any bugs get out from under the sheet at a distance and start to come back towards the human, the first place they're likely to arrive, isn't it, is at the feet, where they'll encounter the unclimbable plastic.
The bugs, having emerged from nooks and crannies in the chair now that you've sat down in it and are beginning to watch the movie, can climb around, can climb up to you from the floor via the chair base all they want, but there's still the sheet between them and you, and the bugs face long odds against successfully biting you through the sheet (and in fact in not getting squished in the attempt), especially if we find a widely available inexpensive type of sheet people can use which bugs have a hard time biting through – like encasement-type fabrics designed specifically for that.
It's unclear to me how you are envisioning the bugs will get around the sheet obstacle so rapidly and easily as you evidently expect they will. The sheet is making *a lot* of extra work, complication, and uncertainty for the bug. Once in a while it might get lucky and still succeed in biting you, but chances are stacked heavily the other way, it seems to me.
Plus even if the bug does succeed in biting you through the sheet, then at least the bug is still separated from you by the sheet so you won't bring him home. Or in case he clings to the sheet, you'll place the sheet in a bag on your way home and then apply heat after getting home. Much simpler to deal with than the bug being in your clothing somewhere – although you *can* deal with that too by stripping and heating your clothing too, and showering. Or maybe the bug got into your personal items – hmm, which of those can you run through the hot dryer and/or the PackTite? But anyway, since you were using the sheet and placed your personal items on top of that, it's a lot less likely the bug got into your personal items in the first place. Let's put a number on this: in my view it's 20 times less likely.
The point is, if we find lots of barriers against the bugs – barriers which require a bit of trouble but not really all that much, and are pretty easy, really, to get used to – we *can* defeat the bugs.
(Parenthetical: we can defeat them without using dead-end chemical poisons the bugs are becoming ever more resistant to just as we ourselves may be about to discover some horrendous long-term effect(s) they have on *us* we never anticipated.)
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Posted 1 year ago
Tue Jun 21 2011 17:38:00
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You could always try this:
I actually used to own one but it accidentally inflated at a fancy dress party and I had to be cut out of it.
David
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Posted 1 year ago
Tue Jun 21 2011 17:42:25
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Did you see these comments?
Nobugsonme - 30 minutes ago »
One problem with people testing this is I am not sure how Bedbuggers would know if they were bitten while sitting in the chair.
Keep in mind bed bug bite reactions almost never happen immediately. Most people do not notice they were bitten until hours or days later. Most people probably have no clue what the time delay is. -
jrbtnyc
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Posted 1 year ago
Tue Jun 21 2011 17:54:01
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Nobugsonme - 3 minutes ago »
Did you see these comments?Nobugsonme - 30 minutes ago »
One problem with people testing this is I am not sure how Bedbuggers would know if they were bitten while sitting in the chair.
Keep in mind bed bug bite reactions almost never happen immediately. Most people do not notice they were bitten until hours or days later. Most people probably have no clue what the time delay is.If we decide to seriously investigate this in a controlled test setting (yes I know lab results don't prove anything for sure about the field but you can still learn a lot in the lab and at least rule out things which definitely *don't* work, and so often you find out something else unrelated you never expected at all which sends you in a different direction entirely and there's where you hit pay dirt), we'll have a known number of very hungry bed bugs confined in a large plastic or whatever arena, large enough for someone to sit in on a chair with the sheet(s) and foot basin(s) and we'll keep track over, say, a three-hour period, similar to the length of a movie or of a rugby match observed on the telly, of exactly how many bugs get past the sheet and foot basin obstacles. As a control, we'll do the same thing without the sheet and foot basin obstacles (in that instance the human volunteer will be permitted to manually block the bugs at the last moment from actually biting if he or she prefers). If there's any question whether the volunteer got bitten and wasn't aware of it, then after the three hours we'll census the bugs and see whether any are engorged. Sure, the experimental design may need discussion and refinement, but the point is DO THE EXPERIMENT and see what we find out; maybe the basic concept can be dramatically improved by modifications which become obviously required within the first two or three trials; don't throw up our hands and lament nothing like this can ever work so back to the chemical treadmill and PCO cha-ching sprayathons.
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brianinjersey
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Posted 1 year ago
Tue Jun 21 2011 18:02:41
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bed-bugscouk - 2 hours ago »
You also need to understand that once a bedbug has found a home with good availability for food it wants to stay there not come home or travel on to an uncertain environment.
David Cain
Bed Bugs LimitedDavid interested in this comment...how does this apply to bed bugs at a hotel, say, and the chances of them hopping on your clothing or in your luggage? I guess what I'm asking is...say you stayed in a hotel that ended up having bed bugs...what are the chances that they would actually hitchhike home in a normal setting? Based on your comment above it seems like they'd be more apt to stick it out in that hotel room? Just curious.
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Posted 1 year ago
Tue Jun 21 2011 18:17:26
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Come out in the field and study them and you will know why this sort of experiment would not work, all you need do is observe, you don't need to cha-ching or make any other type of noise.
I once read an article by a well known US bedbug "expert" that said "we dont know enough about bedbugs in the office environment", the answer to this statement remains the same, get out and look at a lot more cases and you will see the answer.
I fear you find it easier to assume conspiracy theories than to see the plain facts, you are proposing things based on ideas and not field observations. I can assure you I am not loved by the chemical giants, I advocate using less of their product 363 days of the year but fundamentally you approach to this issue has more holes than a tea bag.
This level of paranoia does more harm than good in the long run and to seek to invent your way out of an issue that takes logic not product is doomed from the start.
David
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jrbtnyc
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Posted 1 year ago
Tue Jun 21 2011 19:08:57
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David with all your experience in the field, tell me simply how does the bug bite you through the sheet? Let's say, looking at it from a quantitative viewpoint, that there are 50 very hungry bugs that would emerge from the movie chair and bite you within, say, 15 minutes if there's no sheet – will *all 50* still succeed in biting you within that same 15 minutes if there is a sheet? A sheet we've settled on that's especially tailored to be difficult for them to bite through, made of something similar to the encasement fabrics? Or by contrast, would maybe only 1 or 2 very lucky individuals out of those 50 still succeed in biting you, who happen to hit just the most favorable, lucky angle for their proboscis – and it might take a lot longer in fact than 15 minutes as they attempt and repeatedly attempt? In which case haven't we gained *a lot* in our battle against the bugs, and very easily so?
Or let's say there are the same 50 bugs which would climb out of the movie chair and bite you within 15 minutes if you don't apply a sheet, but now let's say they absolutely can't bite you through the sheet which is, for argument's sake, impermeable, but instead the bugs have to maneuver out from under the sheet, then climb back up on the top surface of the sheet to get to you and bite you. In your view would *all 50* of those bugs still succeed in doing that within the same 15 minutes? Or would we succeed in *cutting drastically way down* the number that would succeed and therefore it's worthwhile for us to do because it's easy and cheap?
Such things aren't so complicated to explain – everyone appreciates your tremendous dedication and field experience – so please *articulate exactly how/why* these expectations wouldn't be borne out that the bugs' performance would be enormously hampered? Why should I go out in the field and investigate for myself when I can simply ask you to say the specific, precise reasons why it wouldn't work, why it wouldn't at least *dramatically reduce* the number of bug bites a typical moviegoer would be likely to receive, maybe by 95% or more, even in a heavily-infested theater?
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Posted 1 year ago
Tue Jun 21 2011 19:11:25
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I am not trying to be negative, jrbtnyc.
It's just that whenever I am in a movie theater in NYC, the seats seem to be directly up against neighboring seats, usually attached with an armrest. It just does not seem possible to isolate yourself in any way.
I also think we have to learn from people like David who have seen thousands of cases and observed the creatures at close range.
I understand your desire for lab testing, but I am not sure who would fund it. And I suspect there's more productive research they could be funding, if there were.
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jrbtnyc
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Posted 1 year ago
Tue Jun 21 2011 19:20:52
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Nobugsonme - 11 minutes ago »
I am not trying to be negative, jrbtnyc.
It's just that whenever I am in a movie theater in NYC, the seats seem to be directly up against neighboring seats, usually attached with an armrest. It just does not seem possible to isolate yourself in any way.
...Indeed it's a problem if the movie theater is packed. But how many times do we go to a theater after the first two or three weeks of a feature and the place is wide open? So we just bring *a few extra* sheets and cover the neighboring seats. Give the bugs, say, three meters of extra horizontal distance they have to walk – on top of the white sheet(s) where they'll be quite visible.
Nobugsonme - 11 minutes ago »
...
I also think we have to learn from people like David who have seen thousands of cases and observed the creatures at close range.
...Of course we all want to learn from David who has so valiantly come onto bedbugger.com for years and helped so many people.
That's why I'm asking David to explain specifically why the sheet and foot basin concept won't work in a movie theater. If David is so convinced it won't work based on his acknowledged field experience, there must be some clear-cut reason, something that's not mysterious, something that could be articulated in, if not 25 words, maybe 50 words.
Nobugsonme - 3 minutes ago »
...
I understand your desire for lab testing, but I am not sure who would fund it. And I suspect there's more productive research they could be funding, if there were.No funding required beyond routine hardware and houseware store visits. The whole point is we're looking for *cheap* ways to beat the bugs so everyone, not just rich people who can afford two, three, six PCO treatments (which may not work anyway, and/or emphatically do not assure against re-infestation at some future time), can be bb-free. For this experimentation all that's needed is bed bug examples to work with, preferably hundreds, particularly adults. Several people who regularly visit this forum and who live/work here in NYC have such access to bugs so if they'll participate we can set up the "lab" at my place or theirs.
How about sometime this week?
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Posted 1 year ago
Tue Jun 21 2011 19:24:09
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They will crawl around the sheet or plastic open ended cover, etc. unless you are watching an extremely short film, like a youtube clip, and yeah they could probably also bite through the sheet. But they can't do any of these things with the new BedBug Sheet! It looks like any other sheet but it does have graphic of a bed bug with a line through it on it. How does it work? Who knows/cares? Have they been tested with actual bed bugs? Of course not, why bother? The main thing is they are available for sale! Sorry, I'm feeling a little cynical today about the state of the bed bug world :(, and I don't mean to offend either, jrbtnyc, your heart has always been in the right place, trying to help.
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Posted 1 year ago
Tue Jun 21 2011 19:42:33
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brianinjersey - 1 hour ago »
bed-bugscouk - 2 hours ago »
You also need to understand that once a bedbug has found a home with good availability for food it wants to stay there not come home or travel on to an uncertain environment.
David Cain
Bed Bugs LimitedDavid interested in this comment...how does this apply to bed bugs at a hotel, say, and the chances of them hopping on your clothing or in your luggage? I guess what I'm asking is...say you stayed in a hotel that ended up having bed bugs...what are the chances that they would actually hitchhike home in a normal setting? Based on your comment above it seems like they'd be more apt to stick it out in that hotel room? Just curious.
The answer to this is like many things with bedbugs, more complex than it first appears.
The risk of something coming home from a hotel is actually based on how heavy the infestation is in the room and how long you stay, what you do in the room.
The heavier the infestation the greater the risk which is why looking reduces the risk significantly as any heavy infestation is easy enough to spot. the mild one or two bedbugs will generally be happy to stay in the room till they develop a colony which takes around 90 days.
The next big variable is the frequency of the room occupation. If its rarely occupied then bedbugs may make the move to come home with you rather than wait for the next meal. Cinema seats are like seats on public transport, as long as the film is good another potential meal is only a few hours away. I suppose the highest risk is the opening night of a second movie flop in a row.
This is also why only one room can be infected in a home if its a light or recent infestation.
This really is where field observation becomes an essential skill in bedbug specialists. If you don't analyse what you see you cant work out how long its been there and where it most likely came from. If you cant see beauty in an infestation its not the right job for you.
I will reply to the rest in the morning as even a valiant warrior needs his sleep.
David
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Tue Jun 21 2011 20:12:35
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jrbtnyc - 46 minutes ago »
For this experimentation all that's needed is bed bug examples to work with, preferably hundreds, particularly adults. Several people who regularly visit this forum and who live/work here in NYC have such access to bugs so if they'll participate we can set up the "lab" at my place or theirs.You are going to set up a "lab" in your home where you have someone sit in a seat while bed bugs roam freely beneath it?
(I hope you're not considering releasing bed bugs into anyone's home in this way, but I can't imagine most people could otherwise be sure bed bugs are present and hungry.)
And then you try and ascertiain whether the subject was bitten in the testing period.
This gets back to my concern about people not knowing when they're bitten.
It seems like this would be awfully hard to test.
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Posted 1 year ago
Tue Jun 21 2011 20:13:22
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Ascertain...
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oldtimer
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Wed Jun 22 2011 7:04:12
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OK to answer this and make it clear, here goes.
In order to isolate yourself from bites you would need a complete barrier between you and the source of bedbugs. Therefore only a burka style covering with a face shield would stop bedbugs from getting to exposed skin, anything else may slow them down but they will still have time to find exposed skin and bite. The sheet may slow them down but it would not stop them from making that journey to food. We know this from people who try to cover up at night and yet still get bitten.
The two options are back to the submarine escape suit concept either using that or a tyvek isolation suit and face guard, either way not practical for use in a cinema.
The best solution is to inspect the seating where feasible or to isolate things before heading home. You could also contact the cinema as anonymously say as a concerned customer you would rather know what their policy is on the subject and what steps they take to correct issues than to hope and prey they don't have an issue.
The point of studying in the field is to understand the behavior of bedbugs so that your efforts and mind are focused on things that will work rather than flights of fancy. I happen to also think that you have a good way of thinking about the problem but a poor way of taking on advice from those who know better. The reality is that between a small group of us we have discussed and thrown out many of these ideas, I am not sure if you appreciate how much chatter goes on between us developers and most importantly how much development work goes on before we will even discuss the issue in public. I had one amazing idea that I got to work but others failed with so the concept was dropped on the grounds that solutions have to work for everyone and not just those with high dexterity.
A few years ago I designed a system for a cinema that not only identified infestations but enabled them to work out exactly who was bringing the issue in in the first place. Sadly it was blocked by the local authority who wanted to make the location so toxic that I would not have been able to do what I wanted. Since then I have been waiting for the next cinema to break silence and ask for help, I know they are out there from interactions with my customers but I require an open mind and receptive management team to get systems to work, without that I am wasting my time which I cant afford to do.
I appreciate that sometimes its hard to get the detail down in text but that has more to do with the complexities of the issue and the fact that Mr Gates and Job's are still working on my neural interface and a data basing system powerful enough to collect and analyse all the variables I process when I work. Its also not always possible for me to put some of the finer details into the public domain for legal reasons, I help where I can but there are some things that I have to respect confidentiality on.
I hope that clears up the logic and reasoning.
David
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jrbtnyc
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Posted 1 year ago
Wed Jun 22 2011 10:40:05
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David, owing it to you to be polite but...I feel I have to razz your explanation.
bed-bugscouk - 3 hours ago »
...The sheet may slow them down but it would not stop them from making that journey to food....What if it slows them down, say, 99%, so by the time they're getting well along in their journey to food, the movie is over and we've left the theater?
bed-bugscouk - 3 hours ago »
...The reality is that between a small group of us [acknowledged hard-working specialists in fighting bb's] we have discussed and thrown out many of these ideas...Sincerely I have to inquire whether you *tested* the ideas before throwing them out.
I still can't visualize what you're saying as to how the bugs will so rapidly and easily get around the sheet we've just thrown on the movie theater chair, as you insist they will.
As postulated, the movie theater chair has 50 very hungry bed bugs lurking in it. If one of us simply sits down in that chair, many if not most of those bugs will be on us within something like 15 minutes, isn't that correct.
Whereas if we first throw the white sheet over the chair (and a couple over neighboring chairs as well), and especially if we've made a point of picking a sheet made of material we know for sure bb's can't bite through such as the fabric some mattress encasements are made of, then the bugs have to somehow get out from under that sheet if they wish to dine. Will many or most of them still succeed in doing that within the same 15 minute interval? It's hard for me to imagine such would be the case. I can picture sitting there watching the movie and watching for bugs out of the corner of my eye...well, so far no bugs, they're scurrying around under the sheet, getting tangled a fair amount in the folds of the sheet, plus because of the sheet barrier they're not quite so sure dinner is nearby as they would be otherwise, and in any event they don't have any compass or GPS so which way are they supposed to go...and so now the movie is half over and still no bugs are in evidence. More time passes...now Luke and Darth are getting ready to fly formation at the Death Star and *finally* ah, here's a bug that managed to find its way out and is coming towards me on top of the white sheet and...whoops, it WAS coming towards me but it stopped...because I squished him since he was so visible, a sitting duck/bug if you will.
That is to say, in the end we might not stop *every single bug* in that movie chair from getting to us – particularly if we stayed there 6 hours or 8 hours and even more so if we went to sleep in the chair; but we're going to be awake and we're only going to be there for 2 or 3 hours max so don't we now have pretty good odds of winning this match? Quantitatively we've made such a massive gigantic improvement in our chances and we've done it so easily and cheaply that...isn't it worth at least setting up an experiment to explore this further?
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oldtimer
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Posted 1 year ago
Wed Jun 22 2011 11:16:10
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Hi,
No it will not slow them down to a level where the movie would finish. It may retard them for 2 minutes or so. You are missing the basics on how bedbugs bug and feed. As people who have isolated beds with various devices have found it bedbugs will still find a way to get around them. The case of a simple covering they will work through the folds and pleats until they get to food, partially by following C02 triggers but also through heat.
Yes we do actually test good ideas and then throw them out if they fail. We also often test in UK and US so we can make sure that the person thinking of the idea is not too biased.
Your assumption on the timing is wrong, bedbugs feed when they are hungry, so only the hungry ones of the 50 will be actively seeking food and then its not a mechanical process where they all start at the same time. You are dealing with biology here and thinking like an engineer, that logic does not work.
One last time, to do what you envisage you need complex isolation in a format you can remove when you stand up and walk away. Anything else is just plain barking mad and will not work. I am sorry to say but these disillusion rants and crack pot ideas are not helping people, there about as wise as the seat covers we now see touted about.
Either you are not taking my posts on board or you are not wanting to, either way in the immortal words of the Dragons den "I am out". I would rather spend my time helping people than wasting good time on bad ideas.
Regards,
David
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Rosae
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Posted 1 year ago
Wed Jun 22 2011 13:01:48
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I never go to a movie theater but it shouldn't be too difficult to make comfortable chairs and floors out of one smooth plastic surface with no places where bugs can hide. After every show the theater is automatically vacuumed or washed.
It will cost some money.
Maybe this is the future design of our homes?
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dcpause
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Posted 1 year ago
Thu Jun 23 2011 22:56:28
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You all realize, of course, that throwing a sheet over a seat in a movie theater is insane?
As is pulling out a flashlight to check for bugs midway through the movie.
Buy a large screen TV instead, heck, splurge on a 3D one, as well as a big sound system and big black curtains for your windows. Make popcorn. The kids will be happy.
Eventually, the kids will bring bedbugs home from school, and while you're waiting for the exterminator you'll have a window of opportunity to go to the movies without worry and live a little!
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slj29
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Posted 1 year ago
Thu Jun 23 2011 23:40:04
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Yes, thank you, dcpause. If my parents refused to take me to see a damn movie (like the next and final Harry Potter!) because of bed bugs when I was a kid, I'd likely be complaining about it to my friends years later. If my parents brought me to the movies and draped a seat over our seats (and neighbors seats!?) after spraying them with something, made me put my feet in a couple shoeboxes, and then proceeded to turn on the flashlight every half hour to check for bugs, I'd likely be discussing it with my therapist years later. Just saying.
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Posted 1 year ago
Sat Jun 25 2011 17:13:13
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This has to be the years most bizarre thread
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your host
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Posted 1 year ago
Sat Jun 25 2011 17:43:40
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bedbugman - 29 minutes ago »
This has to be the years most bizarre thread
Be patient, bedbugman. The year is young.
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jrbtnyc
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Posted 1 year ago
Mon Jun 27 2011 7:28:38
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Well...due to the tremendous popular acclaim...
...for this set of ideas about how to combat bed bugs in movie theaters, it's time to take stock.
Let's note two things:
(1) no one has reported *trying* these ideas or any variation on them and
(2) no one has come up with any other ideas that might be better than these ideas (...still waiting...come out, come out, wherever you are, you who have some better ideas...).
In other words, as things stand now it's pretty much throw in the towel and lament we can't go to the movies anymore unless we're prepared to be bb fodder for that 2-3 hour period.
But let's look on the bright side.
New WEIGHT LOSS PROGRAM: go to the movies!!! Eat all the butter popcorn you want and still reduce!!!
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your host
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Posted 1 year ago
Mon Jun 27 2011 13:55:45
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jrbtnyc,
Inventiveness can lead to new solutions, but tossing out ideas which won't work is part of the game.
Some ideas can simply be ruled out as not practical or not likely to work based on how bed bugs behave, as was the case here.
If you want to minimize risk, don't take lots of stuff to the theater, and isolate clothing for laundry or run it through a Packtite afterwards, as others have suggested.
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BugsInTO
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Posted 1 year ago
Mon Jun 27 2011 19:08:17
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I worry too but I still go to movies. I love seeing them in theatres, and I think it's likely that they will soon all be driven out of business by home theatres, so I do what I can.
To add to this bizarre thread, I checked the schedule at our local rep cinema for yesterday's 9:00pm show thinking I might go, but changed my mind when I saw that the two earlier time slots were special screenings being put on by a nudist club. Yes, the 5:00pm and 7:00pm shows were "Clothing free".
On top of trying to quell my worry about bedbugs, I just couldn't cope with thinking what might be left on the seats by the persons prior to me having been naked ..... maybe I'll go next weekend.
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your host
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Posted 1 year ago
Mon Jun 27 2011 20:04:45
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BugsInTO - 55 minutes ago »
To add to this bizarre thread, I checked the schedule at our local rep cinema for yesterday's 9:00pm show thinking I might go, but changed my mind when I saw that the two earlier time slots were special screenings being put on by a nudist club. Yes, the 5:00pm and 7:00pm shows were "Clothing free".
On top of trying to quell my worry about bedbugs, I just couldn't cope with thinking what might be left on the seats by the persons prior to me having been naked ..... maybe I'll go next weekend.Wow!
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MyWorstFear
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Posted 1 year ago
Mon Jun 27 2011 22:43:25
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Nobugsonme - 2 hours ago »
BugsInTO - 55 minutes ago »
To add to this bizarre thread, I checked the schedule at our local rep cinema for yesterday's 9:00pm show thinking I might go, but changed my mind when I saw that the two earlier time slots were special screenings being put on by a nudist club. Yes, the 5:00pm and 7:00pm shows were "Clothing free".
On top of trying to quell my worry about bedbugs, I just couldn't cope with thinking what might be left on the seats by the persons prior to me having been naked ..... maybe I'll go next weekend.Wow!
Bizarre and quite funny! My immediate thought was that the "clothing free" screening were for those people who didn't own Packtites or just didn't want to have to do laundry when they returned home!!!
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jrbtnyc
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Posted 1 year ago
Tue Jun 28 2011 13:11:15
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Nobugsonme - 21 hours ago »
...
Some ideas can simply be ruled out as not practical or not likely to work based on how bed bugs behave, as was the case here.
...> as "was" the case here...
...past tense?
Nobugs do you really think I'm done
?I was only "giving up" rhetorically.
(Tell me if you prefer that I not pursue this in which case I won't, but otherwise read on.)
* * * *
Okay so now where were we
.Doesn't it seem like it would be silly to give up on this line of thinking, this avenue of investigation, just based on we think it's "not likely to work based on how bed bugs behave" rather than actually testing it in some manner or other?
(1)
For folks to be able to throw one or more sheets over a movie theater seat, or their couch at home before watching tv, or their office chair, or their automobile seat, or whatever (you name it) (i.e. note the potential broad applicability well beyond just movie theaters) so as to fend off bed bug attacks for an hour or two or three while the folks are doing some activity during which they're awake, first we need to identify some type of sheet folks can use that bed bugs can't bite through.
Now THERE'S something we ought to be able to nail down pretty easily, no?
It could be pretty much the same thing as whatever some of the companies use for mattress encasements.
We want it to be:
• inexpensive;
• white or very light-colored, not dark and not clear-colored;
• available in a standardized form all over the USA/Europe/elsewhere;
• lightweight and not too bulky to carry around; and
• comfortable to sit on.So we go to various franchise houseware stores and department stores and so on and look for sheets, cloths, tablecloths, etc., which seem to have these characteristics and we buy one of each.
Then we cut 20-cm-square patches and send those to any bed bug experts here on bedbugger.com who announce they are willing, during sessions where they feed the bugs anyway, to test which of the samples the bugs can feed through and which they can't.
I'm ready to go shopping as soon as the aforementioned hypothetical experts contact me and let me know they'll do this experiment if I send them the patches at my own expense.
(2)
Knowledgeable veteran bb-fighter David bed-bugscouk, a former contributor to this thread, insists at...
http://bedbugger.com/forum/topic/protection-in-a-movie-theater#post-111351
...that if I throw a sheet over the movie theater seat, it will only delay bed bugs getting onto me by something like two minutes or so.
All right, that's a testable hypothesis.
Let's visualize it as follows. Of those 50 very hungry bed bugs in that movie theater seat (or couch or office chair or automobile seat or you name it) waiting to pounce on me, if I sit in that seat unprotected, we don't know how long will be required for the *average* bb among those 50 to get onto me (although we're taking it as a given they're ALL, not just some of them, hungry in fact very hungry), but let's focus not on the average but instead on the *first*.
Surely after I sit down unprotected among those 50 very hungry bed bugs, the *first* very hungry bed bug will be on me within, let's presume, three minutes – does that seem like a reasonable guess? Or two minutes or five minutes or one minute or twenty minutes? My own guess would be three minutes so let's go with that for the moment, for discussion's sake.
So if I sit down but first throw the sheet – which, again, is bb-bite impermeable and by the way also it's a very large "king" size sheet so the bb's in getting out from under it have to search and go a long distance, two or three meters, and then have to come back a similar distance on top of the sheet, another two or three meters (it's a Thursday on the third week of that movie so few other seats in the theater are occupied), plus they have to accept the risk I'll see them during that latter part of their trek and squish them – if I first throw that sheet over the seat, then in David's view the *first* bed bug to get onto me will do so not in three minutes but instead in five minutes or so.
So if we decide to take this out of the realm of abstract discussion and actually do a lab-type or chamber-type test, then if the first bug gets onto me within approximately five minutes despite having to circumvent the sheet barrier then that will show David was right.
If it takes considerably longer then that, it will suggest I was right and that we did gain something via the sheet.
And isn't it worth testing because what if that first bug doesn't get onto me for, say, three hours – i.e. the movie is now finished anyway and I'm leaving the theater before he gets onto me? I.e. I won and the bug lost, actually all 50 of the bugs lost.
This would not be an expensive or difficult test to carry out. And as I've said already a lot of times, the result might be something unexpected that would open our eyes to something else we've been missing, which might then point us to a genuine, viable solution to the problem.
Aside: maybe it would point us towards a solution that would require development of some device which one of us could file a patent application on and bring to market and sell to the movie theater chains and/or to thousands, eventually millions, of ordinary people for movie theater use *and* home/office/car/etc. use?
So may I politely observe once again that I think the test described above is worth doing. But I can't do it on my own until I find someone with whom to collaborate – in the NYC area if I'm to be the one who sits on the sheet on the chair for the three hours – who has access to bbx50. If any such individuals would like to contact me on this thread, let's discuss.
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oldtimer
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Posted 1 year ago
Tue Jun 28 2011 13:44:16
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I give up - so long and thanks for all the fish.
David
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Posted 1 year ago
Tue Jun 28 2011 14:32:04
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jrbtnyc,
With respect, since no one who is equipped with a facility where this cold be done securely and a colony of bed bugs has shown any interest in testing this idea, I think you should give it a rest.
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