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politically correct people won't speak the truth
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tisIsaidthefly
junior member
Joined: Aug '08
Posts: 91
Posted 2 months ago
Thu Aug 27 2009 3:42:07
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I am sorry but I'm tired of the bs. There is NO question as to where these critters came from.
They came from Egypt and Africa, India and China and all the third world countries. I know for
a fact that the clerks that work in the deli downstairs (from Africa) have had bedbugs for years. One of them even admitted to me that he wiped turpentine all over the floors and walls of his apartment. I told him
that if he was my neighbor and did that I would absolutely KILL him. One, it doesn't help much
and two, he could burn the building down. Meanwhile, all the politically correct people don't want
to be honest about it but these bugs are here from world travel and unfortunate people from the less developed countries. For instance the tons of illegal Mexican aliens who come here to work for slave labor, they live ten in one room and sleep in shifts in the bunkbeds. Their landlords don't care if they have bedbugs. That's the reality folks and they are not going to go away until someone finds some way to deal with this once and for all. Please combat people - invent a bed bug trap. -
Oh, tisI -
You sound frustrated and angry. If there's anything that will push us to the edge of our patience, it's bedbugs. Frustration can lead us to draw false conclusions, as I believe you have.
Immigration into the U.S. has been going on for a long time, even during the post-DDT era, from the same countries that are sources of immigrants now. For instance, there were particularly high surges of immigration in the 1970s. Yet bedbugs weren't an issue then as they are now.
This resurgence of bedbugs is worldwide. Something else is at work - some factors other than travel and immigration which have been constant realities for our world and predate the most recent rise of bedbugs.
It's funny. I know for a fact that in some East Asian countries (where, until recently, bedbugs were once as rare as they were in the States) - North Americans and European exchange students and backpackers are being blamed as the principal sources of bedbugs.
How's the bedbug situation in your apt? I remember some of your posts about your roommate and having to deal with lots of possessions, paperwork, etc .
Wishing you well.
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buggyinsocal
oldtimer
Joined: Jun '08
Posts: 1,130
Posted 2 months ago
Thu Aug 27 2009 10:07:41
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Wow.
That's a pretty impressive level of scapegoating use of racism and ethnic prejudice you've just displayed there.
It seems to me that rather than indulging in negative stereotypes of whole groups of people, we ought to be laying the blame where it really needs to go: there are responsible, concerned land lords out there who realize that helping their tenants out is the ethical thing to do.
And then, and we hear plenty of those stories here, there are the landlords who do the least required by the law, whether it's effective or not.
It seems to me that those are the people to blame here.
The more that we perpetuate the image of recent immigrants as dirty or irresponsible or the "real problem" behind bed bugs, the more often people who've recently immigrated from other countries are going to sense that hostility and prejudice and try to take care of the bugs themselves because they (apparently legitimately) fear being blamed even if they aren't the ones who brought bed bugs into a building. It seems to me that if you want to make sure that people aren't using dangerous DIY treatments like turpentine, calling them racist names and indicting them for their poverty isn't the best way to build enough trust to get them to seek appropriate pest control.
And if they have the misfortune to be in a building with an unresponsive or cheap landlord, people who are poor--regardless of their national origin or race--are the ones who are going to suffer the most.
I think we also need to blame the fact that in the United States too many people don't even know that there is a bed bug resurgence. I know my infestation had time to grow because I didn't even know that I should consider whether those itchy red welts are something other than mosquito or flea bites. We need a policy push to educate the general public across the board about the existence of bed bugs and what people should be doing to avoid them or catch infestations early.
But we can do all of that without stooping to racist, ethnocentric, and scientifically inaccurate scapegoating.
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cilecto
senior member
Joined: Aug '08
Posts: 519
Posted 2 months ago
Thu Aug 27 2009 10:11:23
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You've touched on a lot of points. Many of the BB pundits have noted travel and immigration. Others, like Steve Doggett have suggested that hotels segregate by national origin. I believe that the world is a better place without walls and hope that BB don't cause us to build new ones. Ironically, with your call for the "Combat" people to bring us the solution, you touched on what many claim is one of the causes of the resurgence…effective bait-based roach killers. When it was typical to spray the baseboards, all insects crossing the line were impacted. BB ignore Combat traps and MaxForce beads.
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I don't believe that Dr Doggett ever suggested national origin as a criteria for segregation.
My recollection is that he advised hotel operators to look for patterns & to segregate guests that are identified as representing a higher risk of infestation.
Flight crews might be a good example due to their enhanced exposure from sleeping in public accommodations ... Dorm students from a school with a known infestation ... Frequent travelers... ect.
I agree that it is a slippery slope, but I think we should give Dr Doggett credit for looking at prevention is a systematic manner.
I think Doggett was referring to objective empirical correlations, but I think you raise an important objection about how that idea could result in de facto segregation by national origin in some cases.
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your host
Joined: Mar '07
Posts: 5,547
Posted 2 months ago
Thu Aug 27 2009 17:10:06
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The facts don't seem to back your statement up, tisisaidthefly.
Persona-non-bugga does a good job of explaining why they don't. Buggyinsocal does a good job of getting down to the real issues.
I don't really care if you agree with me or not, there just is no evidence to support what you're suggesting.
There IS evidence that bed bugs existed in the US during the 27 years in which (a) DDT was banned in the US, and when (b) there was no press yet on a bed bug resurgence.
They clearly were not a widespread problem during that time. But they did exist. (The same is true in the UK.)
If you have friends from India, Mexico, Kenya, etc., ask them if they had this problem at home, growing up. They will probably tell you no. My friends from these countries did not grow up with bed bugs. They live in NYC now and were as surprised as I was to have to deal with this.
On the other hand, ask a US-born New Yorker or UK-born Londoner who grew up before 1940 (i.e. pre-availability of DDT) whether THEY had bed bugs in their childhood homes, and assuming they can remember and haven't blocked it out of their memories, it's quite likely you will find they did.
The problem you describe in your neighborhood, in my mind, is a problem of slumlords, poverty, not knowing one's rights (in terms of treatment), and possibly fear of repercussions from neighbors or from the landlord.
Education -- about prevention and the need for treatment , and helping people get treatment they are entitled to is the solution.
I have had complaints about this thread, but for the time being have decided not to delete it. tisisaidthefly is expressing an opinion we have seen before, and IMO it is better to discuss such issues rather than simply deleting such a post.
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cilecto
senior member
Joined: Aug '08
Posts: 519
Posted 2 months ago
Fri Aug 28 2009 6:01:53
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19.11. Risk Assessment & Management
Those in the accommodation industry who are seriously affected by bed bugs, should undertake a risk analysis of past infestations. Rooms afflicted should be analysed to see where the past guests have come from, whether they be from a local region or from overseas. If clear patterns emerge, then the high risk groups should be kept separately from the low risk groups. This may help to contain infestations to certain rooms and to a certain area of a facility.
Stephen L. Doggett, A Code of Practice For the Control of Bed Bug Infestations in Australia 3rd Edition Draft July 2009
http://medent.usyd.edu.au/bedbug/cop_ed3_draft.pdfI'm not saying that Doggett is wrong or that he's "racist". But, he has set the ground for segregation, justified or not. Going forward, prudent people will make behavioral choices based on what is (or what they believe is) safer and riskier. I do this now. That said, I still prefer that the BB situation does not deteriorate to the point where the only way to try to control it is to bar people based on a risk-based profile. As a New Yorker, I'd hate to be black-listed from lodging elsewhere due to my city's actual or peceived ranking as "bed-bud groud zero". (Conversely, it would be a disaster for my city if people chose not to visit or do business here on the basis of BB fear, actual or perceived.)
And I'm going to suggest that people who come from countries that don't have the luxury of Vikane, Thermal, Paktite, Giant Ziplocs and other "western" luxuries, who are working long hours to make it, who may be living as transients and in lesser-tier housing, who come from a culture of "grin and bear it", are at higher risk for chronic BB problems, and therefore of transmission to others. This is not a moral judgement on these people, just an imperative that we need to find solutions that are effective, affordable and reach everyone. (Or, get used to the idea that we'll all eventually have BB, more or less and we'll "manage" them rather than engage in the current eradication approaches.)
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