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phantom = pronto = hot shot

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nycfighter

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Posted 1 year ago
Wed Dec 7 2011 4:26:47
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everyone seems to like phantom spray as a killer of bugs and eggs, and some people seem to feel it has residual effect (which i would assume means it is NOT a repellent)

the product "pronto" has the same active ingredients

and so does the "hot shot" bed bug & flea spray in the purple aerosol can (not the fogger!)

but people talk about hot shot like it's useless, and even harmful

i'm just wondering if there is some sort of consensus that phantom is superlative to the other two, even though they all have the exact same active ingredients based on their labels?
theyareoutthere

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Posted 1 year ago
Wed Dec 7 2011 4:45:28
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Hi, NYCfirefighter:

I don't know...at all...I don't think Phantom kills eggs from what I've read here. It is also a slow killer (10 days+)...again..from what I've read here...I'm a newbie.

Saw your Amazon purchase on another thread. Looks like it was from David Cain's optimization paper

Good luck!
cilecto

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Posted 1 year ago
Wed Dec 7 2011 14:47:41
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Did you mean Phantom or were you thinking of BedLam?

Phantom's (from BASF) active (.5%) is Chlorphenapyr [4-bromo-2-
(chlorophenyl)-1-(ethoxymethyl)-5-(trifluoromethyl)-1H-pyrrole-3-
carbonitrile]. Phantom's "claim to fame" is that it's hard for insects to detect (and avoid), hence the name and by necessity, slower acting.

Phantom's actives are not the same as Pronto's and Hot Shot's.

BedLam's actives (as well as Pronto Plus', SprayWay-GoodNight and HotShot Aerosol, but not pump spray) are:
.~4% 3-phenoxybenzyl-(1RS, 3RS, 1RS, 3SR)-2, 2-dimethyl-3-
(2-methylprop-1-enyl) cyclopropanecarboxylate
~1.6% *N-Octyl bicycloheptene dicarboximide (aka "MGK®
264, Insecticide Synergist")
Hot Shot pump spray's active is (.2%) Permethrin

MGK, which markets BedLam, claims some, but not complete, success against eggs.

While the four products (other than Phanton) all appear to have the same actives and may well be the same product with different labels, there may (or may not) be differences in their "inert" ingredients which may affect how well the products work (Inert ingredients are not always as "inert" as they appear). Also, a company can vary formulations between package types (as is the case for Hot Shot), or change formulas over time (BedLam has a blurb out of upcoming changes).
NeverSurrender

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Posted 1 year ago
Wed Dec 7 2011 16:18:42
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cilecto

Do you know if Phantom kills eggs?
bed-bugscouk

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Posted 1 year ago
Wed Dec 7 2011 19:49:55
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Hi,

Cilecto hits the nail on the head with this one, its not always the active ingredients that have the effects. I have seen a few cases where the same active has different effects due to the additives inside the products. The prime example of this is the fact that certain aerosol additives can actually cause bedbugs to scatter where the same product as a wettable powder or liquid formulations works amazingly well.

I have even tested some aerosol based products where there is no repellency and those actually make my approved list.

For the most part however over the counter aerosols tend to be over used and over applied products which is why bedbugs have developed such tolerances to them.

Hope that helps.

David Cain
Bed Bugs Limited
cilecto

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Posted 1 year ago
Wed Dec 7 2011 20:08:17
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NeverSurrender - 3 hours ago »
cilecto
Do you know if Phantom kills eggs?

To the best of my knowledge (I'm not an expert), no chemical in use in the USA claims 100% efficacy against eggs. This is one reason why applications are repeated (intervals as per manufacturer guidelines) and adjunct methods (heat, vacuum, etc.) are used.
Traumabugged

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Posted 1 year ago
Thu Dec 8 2011 2:22:41
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If I may borrow you guys' brilliant brains again... how harmful are Phantom/Bedlam if applied by a profession?

The PCO the landlord called when I first found the bugs possibly sprayed those, all over the room, including the kitchen where there were many dishes in cupboards that could not be completely sealed. He then told us we could go back to the room around three hours later. Even though I washed the dishes diligently and made sure no food contacted the desks, it would still be good to know how one should avoid chemical hazard should one's room get sprayed again.
cilecto

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Posted 1 year ago
Thu Dec 8 2011 15:27:04
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Trauma: Your best bet would be to check the manufacturer's product literature to determine how the product is to be used and compare that against what was actually done. Google "basf" and "phantom" or "mgk" "bedlam" for each respective product.

If I had to guess, you are probably fine if you wash any surfaces that come in contact with food before you use them next.

Again, in case it got lost in my wordy response above, Phantom and BedLam are two different classes of product.
lsdrg706

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Posted 1 year ago
Fri Dec 9 2011 10:01:49
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cilecto - 1 day ago »

NeverSurrender - 3 hours ago »
cilecto
Do you know if Phantom kills eggs?

To the best of my knowledge (I'm not an expert), no chemical in use in the USA claims 100% efficacy against eggs. This is one reason why applications are repeated (intervals as per manufacturer guidelines) and adjunct methods (heat, vacuum, etc.) are used.

I actually find it quite scary that all our chemicals have either such a hard time or dont' work at all in killing eggs. Why are they so damn tough??
P Bello

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Posted 1 year ago
Fri Dec 9 2011 11:49:11
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Use of currently available total release foggers should be avoided because these will NOT contact and kill bned bugs where they hide as the aerosol mist tends to "fall like rain" in the area applied and only those bugs directly contacted can be excpected to be controlled. As bed bugs spend most of their time hiding in hidden and difficult to find harborage areas, the aerosol mist generated by such foggers will NOT be sufficiently delivered to these areas to control the bed bugs. Phantom is a slow killer and some trial data indicates weeks for mortality to occur. There are other products that produce mortality much quicker.

I will answer additional questions as time permits, good luck & have a great day ! Paul B.
Nobugsonme

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Posted 1 year ago
Fri Dec 9 2011 13:05:53
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P bello,

Note: the original poster said that they were not talking about the Hot Shot fogger.
P Bello

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Posted 1 year ago
Fri Dec 9 2011 14:11:05
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It was mentioned in there somewhere so I was compelled to comment on it. thanx for the clarification, pb
nycfighter

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Posted 1 year ago
Sat Dec 10 2011 0:24:05
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sorry. cilecto is right, i meant BEDLAM when i said "phantom". overwhelmed by all the information & misinformation out there in a very short period of time, so getting confused. didn't mean to add to the confusion, but seems i can't change the subject header.

anyway, i do appreciate all the responses. i've been about 2 weeks without seeing any bugs, so feeling a bit optimistic. i never used any sprays really, so i haven't tried the hot shot or pronto or bedlam. was just wondering if there are preventative measures i should employ moving forward. i've put down a couple dusts, and will probably stick to that over aerosols, since they definitely have residual effect, and there seems to be a lot of disagreement about aerosols.

did have my landlord finally remove my impossible-to-inspect, and perfectly-suited-for-bedbugs captain's bed, and replaced with a very simple light-colored wood frame. so i feel better about that. dusted joints with DE & covered holes with clear packing tape while putting it together

i guess i'll leave the hot shot spray under the sink just in case