Got Bed Bugs? Bedbugger Forums » Tools/ideas for fighting bed bugs

Ozone Experiment

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  1. JimPCO

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Sun Apr 8 2007 9:25:58
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    Hello to All, I own and operate a Pest Control Firm and have been trying to find an effective and less expensive treatment method for Bed Bugs. I am a dog trainer as well and have used Ozone generators in my kennels to eliminate the odors of a typical kennel with great success. When I heard that Ozone was being looked at to control Bed Bugs I was very interested. So much so that I purchased an Ozone Generator that produced 7000 grams per hour. The units in my kennels produce 100 gr/hr. I placed bed bugs in a 15 x 15 room which equalled 1800 cubic ft. I ran the unit for 12 hours and had a 50% mortality rate of the bugs. I had a customer with a BB problem and she agreed to allow the test be conducted in her home. Because of the size of the area we let the unit run for 24hours and 6 hours to air out. Upon inspection I found several dead insects but I did find a few live insects.
    I believe that Ozone will work but the problem is finding a unit that will produce enough ozone to do the job. The unit I purchased was $2200 and my guess is I'd need at least one more unit, possibly 2. When we use ozone at this level pets,plants,and people need to vacate the building as the air is unbreathable. It's also recommended to remove sensitive items. Ozone will effect rubber, fur coats, and paints.
    I'm in discussions with a some people to expand this study to the university level and hope to be able to update this post from time to time.
    I did notice that some posts show people applying Phantom. In a recent study out of Virginia Tech, Phantom took 19 days to kill Bed bugs and during that time the insects layed 50% more eggs than those not subjected to chemicals. I would be careful applying these products as a homeowner. But if you must, keep records of what and when you applied so you can inform PCO's if and when you call for ones help.

  2. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Sun Apr 8 2007 9:29:57
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    Thanks Jim--
    Welcome!
    Bedbugger advises people not to experiment with self-treatment, and to get a PCO who is experienced with eradicating bedbugs whenever possible (we have a FAQ about that--accessible from the FAQs button below).
    Keeping records of what you do, if you do anything, is great advice, though some Bedbuggers have noted some PCOs will refuse to treat if you have self-treated (even, in this case, with DE.)

    I started and run the site but am "not an expert."
  3. JimPCO

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    Posted 7 years ago
    Sun Apr 8 2007 9:52:13
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    Thanks for the welcome and I agree with Bedbuggers stance on experimentation - it's generally not a good idea. As a courious PCO and dog trainer (termites, carpenter ant, bed bug detection type) I have always tried to think out of the box. This critter (BB) is one I believe will take a new method of treatment to gain control of. Because of the time it takes for a PCO treatment many people with the problem just can't afford the treatments which in turn means the problem will only get worse for everyone.

    As for the record keeping issue, I understand the PCO side of this. And I feel for the homeowner. The homeowner / tennant needs to be honest with information regarding anything they've tried themselves or the problem may increased.

    I believe , in time , we'll see a cure for this issue. Recently it was noted that organic chicken farms were over run by Bed bugs. There is a study being done to see if an antibotic treatment of the host would be effective. We all need to hang there and do the best we can until something concrete is developed.

    My hat is off to you for this website. Education is the best weapon we have at this time.

  4. crawledon

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Thu Jan 31 2008 19:11:10
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    I've been scanning old posts and the ozone treatment sounds promising. Any idea why the ozone killed some and not other bed bugs? Were some bugs more protected, eg, behind a wall was the age of the bb a factor, not even output from the ozone generator? Since your post 9 months ago, any progress made concerning the ozone generator?

  5. fightorflight

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Sun Feb 3 2008 6:08:27
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    Yea, Jim! We need inquiring minds like you.

    Downer note: Shit, sounds like terminal levels of ozone are needed. I mean, affects paint at a 50% kill level? That could present a difficult logistical issue... Oh um, what about throwing your inquisitive and analytical mind into optimizing gas and Vikane treatments, like for big, multi-unit dwellings... better tenting methods, how to treat the whole building at once... the devil is in the details sometimes...

  6. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Tue Feb 5 2008 0:32:08
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    Crawledon,

    There are at least a few companies already claiming to offer Ozone treatments for bed bugs. I would personally want to see some results on this before I went with this over another method.

    fightorflight--

    Treating an entire building with vikane gas is not a problem, except hugely expensive. people do it all the time. But most don't, because they are paying a fortune for a treatment with no residual.

    Treating individual units is not possible because you can't tent around an apartment. The gas is extremely lethal and the tenting has to be perfect not just to kill the bed bugs but to keep neighbors alive.

    It's also illegal to work with the stuff unless you are licensed to use it, so it's not something people can experiment with unless they are professional fumigators.

  7. Winston O. Buggy

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Wed Feb 6 2008 17:26:40
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    I understand that this is not permitted in NY, does anyone have any info?

  8. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Wed Apr 2 2008 0:28:23
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  9. CompleteOzone

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Tue Apr 7 2009 15:32:31
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    Complete Ozone, Inc. manufactures a line of Ozone Generators that produces Ozone in concentrations high enough to kill bed bugs. Our generators and service providers can be found on our web site at completeozone.com.
    The International Ozone Association uses parts per million (ppm) and cubic feet per minute (cfm) to measure ozone concentration. Anyone who uses anything else is hiding their results. Even when measuring gas in the composition of air, ppm is used.

    When in high enough concentrations, ozone is 100% effective in eradicating bed bugs. We guarantee our results and our licensees use our products worldwide with success.

    Ozone is legal in New York, in fact we have a licensee who works New York City and New Jersey and is constantly using our generators in both commercial and residential applications to remove bed bugs.

    Ozone is also a price effective solution at $.05 to $.07 a cubic foot

  10. BBcoukHome

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Tue Apr 7 2009 16:25:01
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    Dear CompleteOzone,

    I wonder if you could possibly share any references you have from peer reviewed publications explaining the effective use of Ozone in the treatment of bed bugs or any other pests for that matter. I did have a look at the International Ozone Association but for some reason they fail to list pest control amongst the applications for the technology.

    I am relatively familiar with the more recent applications of Ozone in smell remediation as well as its 1920's medical cure all claims. In fact I have a fine collection of antique medical instruments some of which have Ozone generators as part of them.

    Subsequently I am more aware than most of the potential harm that can be caused through exposure to Ozone at high levels, in fact Wikipedia sums it up well in the phrase:

    "ozone is an air pollutant with harmful effects on the respiratory systems of animals"

    This does seem to contradict the statement below which is taken from the about Ozone section of your website:

    Ozone (O3) is an allotropic form of oxygen: it is oxygen in its most active state; therefore it is a more generous supply of oxygen - the life giver.

    I am sure that you will find that the users of this forum are more than open to new ideas and technology as long as they can be supported with appropriate scientific evidence such as peer reviewed scientific publications.

    I look forward to reading this information as soon as it is available.

    Regards,

    David Cain
    Bed Bugs Limited

  11. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Tue Apr 7 2009 18:57:10
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    As I said in your comment on a Bedbugger.com post today, I would also like to see some data to back up your claims. I note that the Complete Ozone website currently does not mention bed bugs as one of the applications.

    I also want to note, as I did here, that you have posted what amounts to advertisements for your company on three posts today, and it's a violation of our Terms and Conditions of Use to advertise in this way in comments and forum posts.

    I have deleted one of your blog comments for this reason. Please do not continue to use the website in this manner. You are otherwise most welcome to participate in a discussion of ozone as a treatment, or of bed bugs generally.

  12. CompleteOzone

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Thu Apr 9 2009 10:51:15
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    The post was not meant to advertise, only to inform that UV ozone is powerful enough to destroy bed bugs. We are currently working with the entymology department at the University of Florida as well as with Villanova University and the International Ozone Association. One of our efforts is to prepare tests and studies to be distributed about ozone and bed bugs, but the stringent testing required takes time. For the time being, field test results are all that we can offer.

    We recently treated a home that had been dealing with bed bugs for over a year without success. They had hired a pest control operator, but because of the ineffectiveness of chemical treatments the PCO had been unable to completely eradicate bed bugs. The system they were using apparently failed to destroy eggs and larvae.

    We treated their home for 24 hours. They have not seen bed bug since. One of the advantages of an intensive ozone treatment is that the ozone will go anywhere air reaches and oxidize contaminants such as bed bug eggs where they lie.

    Although the ozone test results specifically for bed bugs are unavailable, on a molecular level, the bonding that reverts ozone back to oxygen is the same in bed bugs as it is in termites, cockroaches, and other pests with carbon in their atomic makeup.

  13. CompleteOzone

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Thu Apr 9 2009 11:04:55
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    Mr Cain,

    You are 100% right in saying that ozone is harmful to the respiratory system of animals. And humans for that matter. Ozone will break down necessary lining on the lungs of both humans and animals. This is primarily because ozone will break up molecules with carbon in their composition. Ironiclly, it is also this feature that allows ozone to destroy pests. That is why OSHA has limits on ozone levels in inhabited buildings.

    When an area is cleared, treated with ozone, and then the ozone is allowed to fully revert to oxygen, the area will be freed from many harmful particles and will in fact be fresher and better for breathing.

    Oxygen is a tricky word in that it refers to both oxygen (O2) that we breath and oxygen (O) the element. Oxygen (O) the element is the life giver. The phrase you referenced refers to the multiple bond (alotropy) of oxygen atoms that is ozone (O3).

    Without ozone however, we would not survive. The ozone layer destroys harmful bacteria and conaminants in the air and ozone is also a part of the make up of air (at about .05 ppm) and acts to destroy contaminants in the air we breathe all the time.

    As far as ozone destroying pests, there are studies in food processing that utilize ozone to destroy pests. I will see if I can reference one.

    Regards,

    Jon Foley

  14. CompleteOzone

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Thu Apr 9 2009 11:07:04
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    Here is a Purdue University study on ozone killing grain insects

    http://news.uns.purdue.edu/UNS/html4ever/030130.Mason.ozone.html

  15. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Thu Apr 9 2009 11:58:26
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    Hi Jon,

    I look forward to the time when you have published data on the system. It does however need to be a study on bed bugs because what works for one species of insect will not necessarily work on others, its a common mistake and one of the reasons why so many dust mite products get applied to the bed bug market, the physiology and habits of the insects however make them highly unlikely to work.

    I am sure you appreciate that over the years lots of people have attempted to apply technology to the bed bug problem. Its a well trodden path and has not actually resulted in that many effective solutions becoming available.

    I do know some people who has worked on testing Ozone and i am sure one way be along in a while to post to this thread. Unfortunately their results weer not satisfactory but it may be that you have a slightly different approach to them. Accidentally I attempted a few things with high voltage supplies and Ozone back in 2002 but it was not effective.

    I have seen data for odor and mold remediation with Ozone but dealing with a static subject is not as relevant as you might think with regards a highly mobile insect.

    I am sure if you present the data other professionals on the forums will be happy to have a look through it and comment. I would also be very cautious of Ozone and asthma sufferers as I know it is a very common trigger for attack episodes, even at ultra low concentrations.

    Good luck with your studies and I look forward to the next technical installment.

    David Cain
    Bed Bugs LImited

    In accordance with the AUP and FTC (legal requirements) I openly disclose my vested interest in Passive Monitors as the inventor and patent holder. Since 2009 they have become an integral part in how we resolve bedbug infestations in domestic and commercial settings. The patent numbers are GB2463953 and GB2470307.
  16. CompleteOzone

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Thu Apr 9 2009 12:09:56
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    Mr. Cain,

    You are right in saying that technology cannot be universally applied to all insects. However, From an atomic perspective, there are universalities. Atomically, oxygen will always want to form a bond with carbon. Ozone will always be an unstable bond of three oxygen atoms. These three oxygen atoms will always be looking to find a more stable state, i.e. O2.

    In response to atomic mandates, ozone will always be drawn to bond with molecules that include carbon. When this bonding occurs, the former molecules, O3 and whatever was bonded with carbon, will break down.

    Bed bugs, Cimex lectularius, are partially composed of carbon. As they are exposed to ozone, the ozone will break apart the molecules. In high enough concentrations, this ozone will cause breakdown sufficient to kill them - just as it does with other insects. So in that respect, this research can be universally applied.

    Jon Foley
    Complete Ozone

  17. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Thu Apr 9 2009 12:26:32
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    Hi Jon,

    Sorry but I completely disagree with the concept of thing being universally applied because with all due respect you need to understand the habits of the bed bugs and how they infect locations.

    Gas based methods or space treatments have not been that effective in the past because of the edge effect that you get in the refugia of bed bugs. In short the gas applied to the area must penetrate all the cavities to the extent of critical death levels for bed bugs. In practice this is difficult to achieve and taking general atmosphere readings will not give you an accurate indication that the refugia have been treated.

    This is something that also troubled the initial thermal remediation attempts and I am not sure if all providers have overcome that obstacle.

    Your atomic level analogy only works in petri dishes and lab tests which is why field data is so essential.

    If you want to chat about this in more detail please contact me off the forum.

    David

  18. CompleteOzone

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Thu Apr 9 2009 13:36:40
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    Mr. Cain,

    With all due respect, I am afraid you are out of you intellectual ballpark. Your context of understanding is limited to the methodolgy you are familiar with, and you are wrong. The gases that you have worked with are not like ozone, and the process by which we measure ozone concentrations is far beyond what you are familiar with. It is common sense that the reading in the center of a room is different from the reading inside the crevices of a floorboard. The levels that can be acheived in those areas too, is high enough to destroy anything. Bed bugs included.

    Our results and understanding do not come from only petri dishes, but from the hundreds of successful applications of ozone to kill bed bugs every year. In essence, we not only preach it, but we practice it.

    If your arguement is that other methodologies fail to penetrate all of the vital areas, then I do not disagree with you, however that does not have bearing on ozones efficacy. The universality between bed bugs and other insects as effected by ozone is not a concept, but a reality.

    You agree that if ozone permeates the environments bed bugs inhabit in acceptable levels, it would be fatal. Where you understanding fails you is that you do not know what the ppm of ozone must be in order for this to occur. By not knowing the goal, it is impossible for you to conclude that ozone does not reach the appropriate level.

    Grace and Peace,

    Jon Foley
    Complete Ozone

  19. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Thu Apr 9 2009 14:14:04
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    Hi Jon,

    Let me enlighten you on my experience.

    In 2005 I became the worlds first dedicated exterminator of bed bugs having worked extensively on them for the previous 2 or 3 years.

    I have now completed in the region of 11,000 infestation and my company treat up to 12 properties per day.

    We look at and review all available technologies which have either become available and a few that did not make it through field testing.

    My comments about crevice saturation come from a rather detailed knowledge of gas movements and how they mix in various atmospheres. Unfortunately when you are dealing with micro climates which tend to be generated around bed bug refugia you see that the edge effect and limited atomic movement mean that mixing is not complete and fully efficient. Therefore gases have problems getting into locations where bed bugs are hold up for about 98% of their time.

    Now if you are telling me that Ozone behaves in a different way to all others gases please provide data to illustrate this.

    I have read previous work on Ozone and bed bugs and although I cant lay my hands on the information as to what ppm is needed to be fatal I am sure someone who has tested this type of system will dig it out.

    As for being out of my ball park, I hold two university degrees in biological sciences and had a very successful career in technology evaluation and commercial development before I decided to become a pest controller. My first degree covered many aspects of science from microbiology and genetics to obscure subjects like micro climatology and environmental physics. The UK higher education system works on very different principles to the US and we tend to cover subject in a lot more detail earlier in our studies than the US system.

    My argument is that gas based technologies regardless of the gas all need to overcome the issues surrounding Brownian motion in micro climates, Ozone may have less of an issue being a smaller molecule but the laws of physics still apply.

    I am not trying to put the concept down just highlighting the fact that you need to do more than just post, a little evidence would go a long way to convincing people that you have the concept right as opposed to the others that muddied the water before you.

    I hope that clarifies.

    David

  20. JWhiteBBCTV

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Thu Apr 9 2009 14:53:20
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    I've posted on the board before about my experiences in the past with ozone and since my posts aren't attached to this thread, let me summarize.

    Bottom line is that we have had companies come in and attempt to use ozone to eradicate bed bugs in a field setting (a single family home). The infestation in the home was quite bad and the company who came in to perform the treatment made ALL the same claims that Mr. Foley of Complete Ozone was making. Difference was that the company we had come in actually provided some data to us that illustrated ozone killing bed bugs in a lab setting.

    Results of the experiment - very few if any bed bugs were killed by the treatment.

    I agree with David in that for the future, I'm not discrediting ozone for treating bed bugs. For now there is entirely too much work that needs to be done with it in a field setting. I've heard all of the companies make the same claims as Mr. Foley but everytime you ask them for field data they give you the "treated a home for bed bugs and never saw another" magic wand story. We tried to replicate the field setting, more than once, and it didn't kill bugs. Until you have data to back your claims, you're not going to be taken seriously by the experts in this field. When you do, I'm all ears.

    Also, I have serious concerns about the potential health effects of ozone. I understand that homes cannot be occupied during treatment but I've made the calls to University, PhD level researchers who have experience with ozone and they couldn't believe companies were making this claim. From speaking with them, ozone is an unstable molecule and reacts with other molecules in the environment. By reacting with them it changes their structure and can potentially produce harmful byproducts in the process. Since this is such an understudied field, nobody really knows what some of the byproducts are because of that, I have concern over using it at such high levels.

    Again, I'm not trying ot pick a fight. Produce some field data and let me see the results. I was intrigued by the claims and we tried to replicate the claims and it fell on it's face. Produce the data and then we'll talk.

  21. spideyjg

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Thu Apr 9 2009 15:28:02
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    Whatever the weapon it must get to the bugs without them sensing their imminent demise or hit them so fast they cannot escape.

    There was a paper where an entomologist went along with a thermal treatment and set up a tube for bugs to escape and sure enough as the temps climbed near the death threshold they attempted to flee.

    Cannot add anything to the "real world" vs lab examples prior posted.

    A few logical problems come to mind...

    Do BBs detect the buildup of O3 and attempt to escape prior to lethal ppm? This can be tested in a lab easy enough. If they do not detect the building peril then that would be a definite advantage over other methods.

    How do you ensure lethal ppm are achieved for the BBs wedged in a crack, between double studs, behind 1/2" drywall, and surrounded by insulation, and not harm the neighbors cat sleeping on the other side of the wall. Also do the lethal ppm exceed threshholds that will degrade the rubber and plastics, or "bleach" the items in the apartment being treated?

    Maybe it can kill bugs, but many other issues can nix its viability. Fire works great but has other issues.

    Jim

  22. BakedBedBugs

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Thu Apr 9 2009 20:22:58
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    I cannot comment on the effectiveness of Ozone. It may be the *next big thing* for bed bug eradication. Or not. We do Thermal treatments and face many of the same challenges Mr. Foley is up against in this thread.

    My concerns (disclaimer - I have NO scientific background at all let alone one as detailed as David Cain or JWhite) are the oxidation that would occur in a home may lead to offgassing of the VOC's in the home triggering sysmptoms similar to sick building syndrome. The Thermal process also causes a rapid offgassing of VOCs but the aggressive air exchanges we generate purge the VOCs from the structure... I dunno of it is the same with ozone.

    Tony Canevaro

  23. JWhiteBBCTV

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Fri Apr 10 2009 7:57:03
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    And that's just it Tony. There are so many unanswered questions with ozone and unlike heat which is just heat, ozone is already regulated as a toxic substance so who knows what's really going on.

    I'm just tired of some of companies, ozone or otherwise, making claims that their product can do things that they have no scientific backing for. I'm not saying every product should be tested extensively before it's introduced to the market but at the same point somebody with a knowledgeable background should at least put a discerning eye on it to see what it can do. I did, and it didn't do.

    Also the universally applied comments are completely ridiculous. Because something has one effect on one thing it does not mean it's going to have the same effect on another. Ants and cockroaches many times can feed on the same food source but cockroach baits wouldn't be as effective for ants and vice versa. Just a ridiculous claim.

  24. djames1921

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Fri Apr 10 2009 9:47:29
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    Open letter to all who have new ideas/products for bed bug control

    1. Posting about a new product on bedbugger.com is a great idea, as many bed bug experts frequently check in with this site such as Sean Rollo, Jeff White, David Cain, etc.

    2. Instead of getting in lengthy arguments with bed bug experts on this site, try to get your product in their hands to test. Field and lab data are great and should be brought up, but getting an independent evaluation is critical. We did this with Packtite and it immensely helped getting it to market. Also, having done this with both Sean Rollo and Jeff White, I can tell you they are both very nice and professional to work with. When you choose the other route of just arguing with people who could help you make your product a success, it not only looks suspicious, but you could burn some bridges you might need.

  25. JWhiteBBCTV

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Fri Apr 10 2009 11:27:18
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    Thank you David.

    "but you could burn some bridges you might need. ", and that's why I don't trash talk ozone because you never know where it's going to go in the future and I don't want to burn associations with those companies. At the same point, you have to state findings and debate statements no matter how negative they may be. I'll say it again, bring me scientific field data that the product is killing bed bugs and I would love to work with the product. Until then, beware of claims.

  26. Nobugsonme

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    Fri Apr 10 2009 14:15:41
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    I'll say it again, bring me scientific field data that the product is killing bed bugs and I would love to work with the product. Until then, beware of claims.

    Hum me a tune and I will SING this...

  27. douglasenviro

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    Posted 5 years ago
    Tue Jul 7 2009 19:02:41
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    Just have been watching this thread with interest. We have industrial ozone equipment and in our area there are about 5000 homes with bedbug problems waiting for a solution. Clearly, I was "hoping" this process worked, but haven't really seen any data on it. Just looking for ways to help new clients and leverage our existing equipment....

    Has anyone made any progress on this topic?

  28. Nobugsonme

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    Tue Jul 7 2009 20:13:59
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    I have seen nothing new posted here on this.

  29. Ozone

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    Wed Jul 10 2013 6:20:06
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    Ozone and bed bugs.OK here is the latest.We have a small Hotel and been having a problem with bed bugs. Literally tried everything and they just wont go away,even heavy duty poisons.There was lots of info on Ozone and bed bugs,best ozone gens has lots of info and you tube vids.I contacted him and asked many questions before we lashed out and bought a machine.He suggested the high output contractors model 42.000 output.It cost $1362 delivered.Nice machine BUT it hasnt helped in the least.The first time we run it for 5 hours in a small room (only 4mts x 4mts).There were bed bugs crawling up the wall when finished,i suppose it scarred them at least.I wrote back to the dude and he said run in for 6-8 hours,we did that,again no luck,they just managed to find hiding place and our Maid found heaps still alive the next day,nice big fat bastards.It looks like its not the answer and only a sales pitch as many have suggested.I will run it again and do a video next time (next few days) and show everyone.I will try and catch a few and put them in an escape proof container and see if they die,but my guess is they wont after my initial results.Anyway sorry for the bad news for all you hopefuls out there,Sad for me also wasting my hard earned cash.Oh well dont try dont know.

  30. bed-bugscouk

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    Wed Jul 10 2013 7:13:30
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    Hi,

    I appreciate the concept of don't try don't know but some things you don't need to try if you understand the physics of what is involved.

    Ozone does not and will not work for the same reasons why foggers do not and will not work.

    Sorry folks but we live in a world where much of what we do is governed by the laws of physics and some things can be worked out from basic principles without the need for experimentation.

    You may find some recourse through the BBB or the FTC (who are quite hot on bogus bedbug claims).

    David

  31. cilecto

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    Wed Jul 10 2013 15:40:30
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    Ozone sounds like a benign way to kill BB with a technology that we already use for other purposes (like sanitizing our pool water). Until you learn that it has a lot of the limitations of other poison gas approaches, with some complications of its own. It's notable that in the 4 years since this this thread began, industry has adopted a lot of new tools, but not ozone.

    "Ozone", If you're running a hotel, you need immediate help from pros who understand how to serve this sector. Based on your story, it sounds like vacuum and steam would probably reduce your population more effectively than this tool (but I'm not an expert).

    Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night...
    - Psalms 91:5-7

    (Not an pro)
  32. Nobugsonme

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    Wed Jul 10 2013 17:12:31
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    A recent press release suggests bedbugozone.org is trying to train people to be "ozone bedbug specialists" --- which is a concern, if the technology hasn't yet been proven.

    If it has been proven, I'd like to see some field data, as Jeff White suggested above about 4 years ago.

    http://www.sbwire.com/press-releases/ozone-bedbug-specialist-course-just-released-274650.htm

  33. Nemo

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    I'm no expert on household pests, but I'm probably the closest thing around at the moment to an expert on ozone. It has its place, like water sanitation and certain chemical transformations in the lab. But holy cow!! I wouldn't just pump my house full of it. It's an oxidizing agent, similar to bleach. I guarantee you a concentrated enough solution of bleach would kill your bed bugs, but would you go spraying bleach around your house? Ozone would work on bed bugs because it's indiscriminate, it just oxidizes whatever it happens to bump into first. That includes your walls, your furniture, your carpet, your books, your CDs. . . It might not outright destroy something, but if you're using high enough levels to be dangerous to humans, it's probably going to shorten the useful lifespan of your household furnishings. Then there is the question of accessibility if bedbugs are hiding in tiny crannies, and their ability to sense the ozone (it has a noxious odor) and run away!

    As for it killing bed bugs. . . I did some research on a small molecule that kills cancer cells pretty readily, though it would never have application in medicine because of its high reactivity (like ozone, it would react pretty indiscriminately, so it would be hard to get it to cancer cells intact). Whenever we would hear about some new chemical that would supposedly kill cancer cells, we would say, "Yeah, so does bleach." For chemotherapy you need a lot more than the ability to just kill cells, and I'm guessing it's the same for pest control. There's an XKCD cartoon on this topic:

    I'm sure a 9 mm at point blank range would kill a bedbug 100% guaranteed. But . . . not exactly practical.

  34. Nemo

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    I found this paper on using ozone to control pests in stored grain. It was feasible, at levels of 30-50 ppm sustained over days. The level of ozone considered by the CDC to be immediately dangerous to life or health is 5 ppm. OSHA limits workers to an exposure of an average level of 0.1 ppm over an 8 h time period. So this is something that would definitely require dangerous levels of ozone and an extended period of time to be successful.

    Of course this application is quite different than treating a house (for a week. . .?) since the grain can be stored in a simple cylinder made of ozone-resistant material, without the concerns of damaging household furnishings, and hiding places for the insects are limited. I think treating a house successfully would be more difficult, since there are many more nooks and crannies for the insects to hide.

  35. Nobugsonme

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    Thanks, Nemo!

    Yes-- I am not an expert on ozone, but judging on the input we've gotten from bed bug PMPs like David Cain and Jeff White above, it does not sound like ozone has yet been proven to work well on bed bugs.

    So I was wary when I saw that press release.

    I always say bed bugs are the new wild west. If anyone thinks they have something to sell, they're doing it-- in many cases, regardless of whether it's a good option or the best option.

  36. Ozone

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    Hi guys,just in regards to the comment by "cilecto" RE the need for professional pest control.Im just wondering if you think im a complete idiot.Of course we have tried professional pest control prior to buying the stupid ozone generator from best ozone generators.In fact the "PROFESSIONAL" exterminators have been 3 times with no guarantee and the bugs were seen the very next day after one of these expensive procedures (that also leave our Hotel unoccupied for 2 days.)They did come back for free once when we seen them the next day,but ladeda there still there.We had to try something else BUT as I am telling everyone OZONE is completely useless.We have found that vacuuming every day does keep them at bay.

  37. bed-bugscouk

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    Thu Jul 11 2013 5:59:24
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    I am actually considering the course so that after 3 hours of online tutorial I too can become an expert on Ozone and bedbugs.

    If nothing else it will go nicely next to my collection of other outstanding achievements, I really must update my bio to include ordained minister of the worshipful order of second day born again etomologists brotherhood (available for weddings, christenings are bar mitzvah's). We are a growing congregation spreading the word that the bug is not the love bug.

    I am by far an expert on Ozone (until my course is complete) but I do have more than a passing interest in high voltage electricity and a fine collection of Tesla based devices. Some of the electrodes are designed to produce "therapeutic Ozone" which would be wafted into peoples noses to cure the "vapors". Not the kind of thing you expect to see in modern medicine but sometimes we forget that its only a few generations from your local quack administering leeches and hand cranked electro shock therapy in your own home. In fact I think the TV should do a series illustrating the different ways people would have been treated.

    There is a huge difference between grain storage the kind of environments bedbugs exist. For a start the controls on the air flow and ventilation and the uniform and dense nature of grain means that its idea for gas and vapor based fumigation.

    It falls into a wide silo of existing products seeking new applications which is a whole world apart from either designing a solution to the problem or those who copy the basis of something that is already working. Oddly enough only one of those groups tends to actually work when it comes to bedbugs because they are a much more subtle creature than they are given credit for. I guess that comes from the fact that man has lived with them for 99.9998% of the time that the human species as occupied its ecological niche.

    I can see how Ozone can have applications in some aspects of extreme environmental remediation and then only in a monitored, controlled and thoroughly ventilated post application basis. The cost of the monitoring equipment alone would exclude this from being a home application as would the PPE and health and safety requirements. In short I have nothing against Ozone in the right applications but until I see reputable data to support its use in a field environment I will stick with the knowledge that the physics stacks up against it working at levels that are acceptable from a health and safety perspective.

    David

  38. bed-bugscouk

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    Thu Jul 11 2013 6:15:02
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    Hi Ozone,

    I don't think cilecto meant any offense, as a forum we tend to always make sure the obvious things are covered when a new story comes up, such as confirming signs etc.

    Sadly not all "professionals" are as experienced as they would hope and although they may feel they have a good program it may not always be the best way to approach the issue.

    It is also difficult for people outside of the industry to understand fully the issues that bedbugs can cause from a financial and morale perspective.

    In fact with bedbugs the stress often creates a much more heightened tension for people, with commercial infestations the pressure is amplified because there are more parties involved. Its not unusual to see tension between PCO and customer, the lack of sleep can play a huge influence on people as does the pressure you may get from a guest that gets passed down the line.

    However you are now in a better place information wise and I would suggest a read of the FAQ's and useful tools. It tends to be consumer and hoe environment centric but it may be time to develop something for commercial readers (hint to NoBugs).

    Also it may be useful o start a thread talking about your issue but keep it anonymous so that others who read it in the future will get the most out of it. We can then give you suggestions and feedback and hopefully get you through this.

    David

  39. Ozone

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    Thu Jul 11 2013 6:48:42
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    Hi, yes David your right and a funny dude,I also opened the "Ozone Bed Bug Course" just for a laugh.There sure are a lot of con men out there on the web.I loved your article about that.
    Actually its just as you said the little buggers do cause us to stress out,especially when customers complain and we have done everything we possibly can and then some.Actually we have had 2 separate pest control companies come out (the only 2 available in our area) supposed bed bug specialists.We have also tried every other remedy found on the web. Except heat or steam as there are no companies doing that where we are located.Ill check out your F& Q AGAIN.
    Regarding the stupid Ozone machine (that may be good for other things) not only dosnt it work it made the bed bugs more active,must have excited them in some way.Maybe its time to bring back DDT.

  40. bed-bugscouk

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    Hi Ozone,

    Thanks, I do try to keep at least myself amused.

    Would not wait for DDT they have been resistant to that since the 1960's, the solution is to think of the problem differently. I have sent you a PM.

    David

  41. Ozone

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    Thu Jul 11 2013 21:43:51
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    Hi everyone,just a quick note to David (I didnt receive your message as yet,but looking forward to its arrival) ...RE Nemo
    I just wanted to explain that when we used the ozone gen,it was only in one room at a time.We have simple rooms,no carpets(tiled floors),only one locker, and no furniture,actually we are a Hostel (I didnt think people would understand what that was so I wrote Hotel) There are 6 beds in a room,12 ft x 12ft (3 metal double bunks) So if it was going to work at any level then our rooms for sure would have produced results.It did nothing,except made the room smell fresh in a ozone kind of way.The bed bugs thrived.So just a note to all the OZONE DUDES out there,PLEASE STOP RIPPING PEOPLE OFF by promoting Ozone as a method for eliminating Bed Bugs.IT DOES NOT WORK.I will do a you- tube video soon with some live bed bugs that I managed to capture (after the ozone "shock" treatment) and put them in an escape proof container and re-blast another room.Then post it next to the con men,hopefully that will slow down the BS from the con artists selling their wares.Ozone may be good for other things BUT NOT BED BUGS.

  42. Ozone

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    Fri Jul 19 2013 2:22:34
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    I will be putting a you-tube video on the web today showing my test with live Bed Bugs and Ozone generator
    May I suggest Jeff White update his you-tube video on bed bugs and ozone,hey Jeff its a bit old now (2011 I think) so some people like myself were more enticed to more recent videos from Charles Boday who seemed to assure everyone that his ozone generators did work,he even has an up to date video showing Jeff White and saying Jeff didn't want to try his machine. Anyway see for yourself,my video is totally unbiased and should be on the web later today

    [admin note: non-working link deleted-- see message two down from this one]

  43. Nobugsonme

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    Fri Jul 19 2013 2:39:23
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    Please let us know when the video is live!

  44. Ozone

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    Hi YES OK the video is live at : http://youtu.be/jsbEokKjw6s
    I had to reformat it as it was taking forever to upload,so the other link dosnt work.

  45. bed-bugscouk

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    Fri Jul 19 2013 7:13:27
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    Hi,

    I am very much looking forward to the next time I see Charles, I told him this would not work in Vegas the other year but he insisted I did not understand the technology or bedbugs.

    I would recommend you lodge a complaint with the FTC who following the $4.6 M USD fine of cedarcide earlier this week are on a mission to get these parasites off the market.

    I appreciate that other professionals feel that they should not take these suppliers on head to head but when its wrong and affects people who are suffering we all have a morale and ethical duty to stand up for what is right.

    I actually first experimented with Ozone in 2004 and quickly realised it was not the way forward but frankly the bedbug world is full of people who have attempted to shoe horn existing products and technologies into this market. I know from personal experience that it can take years to develop a product that works and the first stage of that process is to get out into the field and understand the issue.

    However I am sure the cowboys will ride into town shortly to attempt to defend themselves.

    David

  46. Ozone

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    Hi everyone, just a follow up on my post and video about ozone and my results which found that I am unable to get any positive results using my ozone generator. There was a person who was defending ozone on one of my videos. He is signed in as "Banclaster". He tells me he is in the pest Industry so some of you may know who he is. He stated that I didn’t use the machine correctly, well just let me say prior to running the machine for 20 hours (as a last resort to get some results) I had run it at 6,7,8 and 9 hours in other rooms exactly as per instructions from videos on the web and instructions found on max blaster site. There were no instructions with my machine only warnings about using it. The person in question also said I did not have a 42.000mg/h machine which is also untrue. My ozone generator is a 42.000mg/h machine and I have posted another video showing the internals IE: 6 transformers and 12 cells. He also said I had too much humidity and this is also incorrect as I checked humidity levels at 55% plus it is dry season in Indonesia (Indonesian winter) plus in other rooms I run the A/C in humidity control setting. The machine has never produced a satisfactory result at any time in now 7 tests. I will however do one more video running the machine exactly as suggested in the coming weeks for a follow up. There were suggestions that my video was vindictive and that I should apologize to Charles. What does everyone think about that ?He suggested I watch another video of Charles showing a bed bug kill with ozone and to me it looks fake as the yellow seal is not the same at the beginning and end of the video, plus the bed bugs have gone from 50 alive to 4 dead. Am I being a total skeptic because of my bad experiences or am I doing something wrong? I did not buy the machine and spend $1362 for it to fail and make a video about it not working. If anyone in the world wanted it to work, it was me. Has anyone got any suggestions on how to make it work ?

  47. bed-bugscouk

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    Ozone - 6 minutes ago  » 
    Has anyone got any suggestions on how to make it work ?

    Sorry the only way you will get that one to work is to drop the machine on top of a bedbug and hope you have done it from sufficient height to kill it. I doubt the machine is heavy enough to kill they from just a few inches, feet of height may be required.

    Outside of that its a lemon of a concept at best.

    David

  48. P Bello

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    Thu Aug 22 2013 7:44:44
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    We need to make a thread/sticky/list called:

    "products that don't work well and are not recommended for use against bed bugs"

    or

    "products that sukdotcom"

    or

    (I'm open to suggestions here folks)

    This is one of them, nuff said !

    pjb

    As a consulting entomologist I provide services for entities such as property managers, health/housing/emergency depts, schools, hospitality/resort/cruise industry, homeowners, food service, retail, pest professionals & product manufacturers. I recommend only efficacious methodologies, products and equipment. Professional relations have included Actisol, AMVAC, Atrix, BASF, Bayer, Catchmaster, FMC, GMT, Eaton, MattressSafe, Nisus, ProTeam, Rockwell, Syngenta & Woodstream. No compensation for product sales occurs. As inventor of Knight Safe bed bug sleep tent provides a royalty.
  49. Nobugsonme

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    Thu Aug 22 2013 10:02:38
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    HI Paul,
    Good idea!
    But rather than a sticky (they're basically a form of clutter and most people don't seem to find them on their own), I will make a FAQ that links to discussions of various products/methods in the forums or to FAQs in cases where we have them -- both those that don't and do work (lavender oil, Vikane, etc.).

  50. Ozone

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    Sun Aug 25 2013 2:28:14
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    Bed Bugs are no laughing matter, BUT if they could talk about OZONE this is what they would say: http://youtu.be/lhfieGEaLtg
    JUST FOR LAUGHS, because sometimes if we don’t laugh we might just cry

  51. bed-bugscouk

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    Sun Aug 25 2013 5:54:00
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    Can I suggest a remix with "I will survive" by Gloria Gaynor.

    David

  52. Ozone

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    Yes good idea, at least the ozone rip off machine has kept me busy. I suppose I’m boring everyone now but at least I’m amusing myself. Anyway today I made one more test and video (25th Aug 2013) with 3 bed bugs that survived 2 consecutive 8 hour blasts yesterday.(my last ozone video,retiring ozone x&%$#pert) I sat them right in front of the machine for 8+ hours. The room was so full of ozone you would expect nothing could survive. Did they live? You can see at: http://youtu.be/rt3haWebq5U
    Oh by the way I have a very good condition (only used 10 times) ozone generator for sale at reasonable price if anyone is interested.LOL

  53. Ozone

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    Sorry this is the link: http://youtu.be/dwDpRzokOio
    Plus just let me add this, after removing the test bugs in the video I turned back on the machine and it run all night, so that’s another 12 hours. I just went into the room (10am 26th Aug) and with only a quick look found 2 more live bed bugs. Believe me that room was pressurized with ozone like any test Charles could do. The ozone content in that room was unbelievable. Really how anything could live is beyond me BUT the bedbugs were not even affected. Now that really says something for the nature of these pests. I don’t envy you guys trying to eliminate them, man they are strong and super hardy. Someone should report that Charles and anyone else promoting ozone to kill bed bugs, because without a shadow of a doubt under any circumstance it has no effect. I am not living in America so there is no point my reporting him, but I give anyone my full approval and authority to use my comments and videos to report him. IT IS A TOTAL CON and should not be allowed to continue. Abu Sidiq

  54. Ozone

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    Mon Aug 26 2013 6:52:43
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    OK Davis just for you: http://youtu.be/cUt-ej5HZC0
    I won’t annoy you guys anymore; I know you all have serious stuff to talk about and a really tough job out there in the field. Good luck to all you PCOs. I never knew how hard your job was and I can’t imagine what abuse you must get from customers because they like me, (before) just don’t understand how difficult it is to get rid of these dam bed bugs. Thanks so much for your support and great advice. Ayo from Indonesia

  55. bed-bugscouk

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    Mon Aug 26 2013 8:41:14
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    Thanks.

    I really enjoyed that one.

    Can't offer you cash for the useless system as I would not be legal to buy one for the UK but happy to look at swapping it for things tht do actually work, just drop me a PM.

    David


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