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*Official* bed bug k9 industry thread
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your host
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Posted 3 years ago
Mon Feb 22 2010 21:11:01
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This thread is for discussion of the bed bug k9 industry including various training approaches, trainers, certification, etc.
It is not a thread for talking about specific bed bug k9 services.
If you are a consumer, this is not the thread to ask for recommendations about bed bug k9s. Instead, start a new thread (tag it "bed bug k9s").
This is a space for people to discuss the bed bug k9 industry. This is a topic which has consumed many other threads which started out on other topics, and I think it is important that a dedicated space be provided, so people can be sent here rather than diverting other discussions.
Since this topic seems to bring up a lot of conflict on the forums, I hope this is a solution both for those who want to discuss the bed bug k9 industry and those who don't!
If you are on another thread and want to engage in debates about trainers, methods, and certification for bed bug k9s, please move it here. (Bookmark this thread if you are in the industry.)
Feel free to say, "let's go to the *Official* bed bug k9 industry thread!" before someone else does. That way, we can keep other threads on topic.
Rules: please be civil to people you do not agree with, and respect their differing viewpoints. Your cooperation is much appreciated.
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oldtimer
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Posted 3 years ago
Tue Feb 23 2010 9:11:38
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Welcome to the K9 thread!
(Read in a Rodney Dangerfield voice)
I'm telling ya.... Its dog eat dog out there....
I get no respect... No respect....
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oldtimer
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Posted 3 years ago
Tue Feb 23 2010 11:38:55
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Great idea for a thread.
I am also linking below to the article we wrote to help people confirm both visual and K9 inspection for confirming signs of bed bug activity prior to treatment starting:
http://www.bedbugbeware.com/confirmingBBsignsfinal.pdf
Hopefully people will see the value in adopting this approach.
Regards,
David Cain
Bed Bugs Limited -
newbite
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Posted 3 years ago
Wed Feb 24 2010 23:33:29
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Glad to see this thread! I am the owner of Perfection K9 Services and Perfection Pest Control, serving the unfortunate people of Greater Cincinnati that are suffering with bed bugs. Beddy is our two year old Jack Russell/Minature Schnauzer bed bug detector. She was trained by Jim Rutherford at Action K9 Institute. She is handled by an excellent partner with ten years experience in pest control. We always provide sight verification on any alerts with repeat verifications if neccessary.
Here is a story that was done on Fox news
http://www.fox41.com/global/story.asp?s=12024988Our site
http://www.perfectionk9services.comI welcome any and all input from the other experts on here. While I have thirty years of experience in the pest management industry, I have never worked with a K9 but have a good handler and a good mentor.
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your host
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Posted 3 years ago
Thu Feb 25 2010 1:06:06
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"We always provide sight verification on any alerts with repeat verifications if neccessary."
That sounds good.
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your host
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Posted 3 years ago
Thu Feb 25 2010 1:07:46
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kypest,
I deleted your duplicate post in the forums. Please do not cross-post to multiple threads and please also read the terms and conditions of site use. Thanks, and welcome!
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I have read the many post regarding bed bug k9's with mixed feelings. As a PCO, dog handler, and dog trainer I hate hearing the stories about false alerts from K9 teams as it tarnishes the entire k9 industry but quite honestly, I'm surprised there aren't more stories of bad results based on what I've seen.
Earlier this month I was requested to speak at the Canadian Pest Management Association's meeting in Ottawa. While I was there I spoke with an exhibitor that was promoting her new K9 mold and bed bug inspectors. The problem was that the trainer trained the individual dogs to alert to both bed bugs and several different types of mold! When I asked her how she knew what the dog was alerting to she said they practise with the scent she wants the dogs to alert to on an inspection. So she basically believed the dog could turn off its ability to detect bed bugs or mold upon request. I felt sorry for her because she had spent a very large sum of money to a trainer that clearly doesn't have a clue and she was starting a business that , from the start, is bound to fail. She had ZERO back ground knowledge of bed bugs and her knowledge of dogs was based on her experience as a breeder and the 4 days of training with her trainer. A very sad situation.
As for false alerts, most dogs are trained on training devises rather than real world situations. The handlers hide the samples and unknowingly lead the dog to alert to the samples. If the dog does this correctly 95 out of 100 times they brag about an accuracy rate of 95%. But have someone hide the vials and neither dog or handler knows where they are and the accuracy rate drops to (maybe) 75%.
Although most companies don't have the resources for 2 canines, we do all of our inspections with 2 teams. This way we can compare results and recheck questionable alerts or lack of. Finally we do a visual inspection to verify but if we can't locate them the question is are our eyes at fault or the dog's nose? The point is, as mush as we'd all like to have a 100% correct inspection, I think it is impossible to gain this level. We even tested a $20,000 thermal imaging camera to locate bed bugs with our dogs but the bed bugs didn't generate enough heat for the camera to pick them up.
I read somewhere on this forum that a blogger thought that bed bug dogs would run their course in 2 years. He may very well be right but I'm hoping that the Teams that are maintained properly and are truly educated in regards to bed bugs & pest control knowledge will seperate themselves from the others and set a standard for this industry. Bed Bug dogs are not the only answer but simply a tool. If you don't recharge your flashlite you get a weak beam of light which can cause you to miss important signs. The same is true with a bed bug dog team.
I look forward to reading the post on this forum and thank the host for allowing me to post here.
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member
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Posted 3 years ago
Tue Mar 16 2010 11:11:56
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actionwdi I think you zeroing in on one of the issues in the K-9 industry as it stands now.
She had ZERO back ground knowledge of bed bugs
I think that after a team completes an inspection and the customer thinks the "star of the show" was just the K-9 your team maybe lacking in some required skills and knowledge.I'm hoping that the Teams that are maintained properly and are truly educated in regards to bed bugs & pest control knowledge will seperate themselves from the others and set a standard for this industry.
This is something that I think will happen. When to much emphasis is placed on the K-9's ability alone, in my opinion is a bad thing. It is bad for the K-9 industry if customers have the feeling after an inspection the only reason "the human" was part of the inspection was to hold the lead and write an invoice. -
your host
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Posted 3 years ago
Tue Mar 16 2010 17:28:16
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I neglected to post a link to the new bed bug sniffing k9 FAQ for consumers, but welcome your comments and input on it either here or on the FAQ.
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oldtimer
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Posted 3 years ago
Sun Apr 11 2010 8:49:27
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BedBugDog™ is a trademark of Florida Canine Academy.
A trademark is established through use of the mark in commerce.
We trained our first BedBugDog™ in 2002 and have been selling bed bug detection dogs throughout the United States and Canada under the BedBugDog™ trademark since 2005.
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loubugs
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Posted 3 years ago
Mon Apr 26 2010 15:42:33
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Well, not in the bed bug sniffing K9 end per se, but I did want to second the thoughts that were noted above regarding handlers and trainers who don't know about the bugs at all. I work on bed bugs, identification and biology. Also some of the handlers have never worked with dogs before and have basically just learned about them very quickly: They still have a lot to learn and should make sure they do learn more before selling themselves. Some handlers definitely aren't ready for their detection jobs and still need more education on basic bed bug identification.
Visual verification is extremely important, and even if bugs can't be found, the reference can be noted as a hit, just not visually verified. Results of examination of the home or adjoining apartments may make more sense when looking at the situation as a whole rather than just being able to see one apartment or one room.
Some of the pictures I upload are images of extreme infestation and what most likely is being seen in general are much less infested homes, in fact, infested rooms may appear "uninfested" even after searching in response to a dog alert because the bed bug load is slight or in its early stages.
If K9 bed bug inspections aren't performed in a professional manner everyone suffers. -
oldtimer
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Posted 3 years ago
Mon Apr 26 2010 17:20:18
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Lou and LVK9 are correct.
The weak link is the skill and knowledge of the K9 handler.
I am working on a program to develop better skills for inspectors including identification.
There will be a comprehensive exam at the end of the course.
Visual identification is an essential part of the inspection, but inaccessible areas like adjacent units can be a major obstacle for proper verification of the infestation..
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your host
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Posted 2 years ago
Fri Jun 18 2010 14:22:56
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I don't want to start a riot, and I do not have a dog in this race, but I have been wondering: is there a disadvantage to a bed bug k9 having long hair?
I saw some footage recently of bed bug k9s with really long coats -- perfectly groomed but looking ready for a show.
(I don't want to name them, because I don't want to bring negative attention to the firm without any cause).
I just had to think how they might possibly pick up a bed bug more easily than a short-haired dog under certain circumstances.
I know long-haired breeds can be awesome workers. I am just concerned. As I would be about a human going into an infested situation wearing fluffy fur that sticks out six inches in every direction.
I know checking dogs for bugs is something any handler should be doing in between jobs, but there's no way that you can groom a dog like this after every unit you inspect in a hotel or apartment building, for example.
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oldtimer
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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Jun 19 2010 21:21:08
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We have over 100 teams in the field, but we are not getting complaints from our handlers about bringing bugs home.
I think behavior may be more critical than hair length... If the team is walking around the room at a steady clip... It is difficult for a cryptic pest to climb onto a moving K9, but if the K9 rests on the floor while the handler speaks with the occupant or performs another task... then we are looking at a different level of exposure.
I have spoken with a number of researchers while trying to encourage someone to perform some repellency testing on the various products that are available for K9 flea and tick control to try to identify a product that would be useful for protecting a dog against picking up a hitchhiker. So far, I have not been able to identify a preferred product.
I currently use Frontline and dog shampoo spiked with cedar oil to prevent any transfer of bugs.
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your host
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Posted 2 years ago
Sun Jun 20 2010 1:25:22
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Thanks, Doug.
The footage I saw was obviously a demo rather than a real search, but the dog spent time sitting on the floor as the handler talked to "client" and also was lying on the bed for minutes sniffing without really moving much.
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junior member
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Posted 2 years ago
Sun Oct 3 2010 13:26:49
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Hello DougSommersMS,
Looking for an update on your post, 5 months back, "on a program to develop better skills for inspectors including identification". Were you thinking a program for Joe Q Public, independent K9 handlers or ...? Thanx for your time.
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oldtimer
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Posted 2 years ago
Mon Oct 4 2010 18:09:30
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Looking to have the site up around the first of the year.
The educational section will be open to everyone
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junior member
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Posted 2 years ago
Mon Oct 4 2010 21:07:25
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Thanks for the update - I am looking forward to the info.
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labugman
newbite
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Posted 2 years ago
Thu Oct 7 2010 21:56:16
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I can see how this dog sniffing deal is going to go. I have no doubt that a trained dog can accomplish the task, but how long before this becomes a consumer fraud?
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oldtimer
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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Oct 9 2010 11:58:24
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In some parts of the country... fraud has already become an issue.
People are popping up without any formal training claiming that their dog can locate bed bugs with disastrous outcomes.
I don't care who trained the dog... as long as they are able to "Show Us The Bed Bugs" in the identified locations.
The website I am working on will only list K9 teams that perform a manual search in any alert locations in accordance with a simple verification protocol.
The handlers will be required to pass a comprehensive knowledge and identification exam.
Consumer satisfaction ratings will be posted as well.
It is hard to legislate integrity.... I think that consumer satisfaction ratings will be the best guide
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newbite
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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Oct 9 2010 13:59:47
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I agree that visual verification is crucial. If the handler cannot produce Bedbugs or other evidence (cast skins and/or fecal matter) I consider that a false positive. I understand in some instances that the handler may not be able to "dig" through the furniture or whatever but in most cases he or she should visually produce evidence. The dog and handler are equally important components of the team and when one is bad the team is bad.
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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Oct 9 2010 16:51:20
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Doug, I like the 3-prong approach - search protocol, 'show me the bug' verification, and handler knowledge/identification exam. I had not considered the option of consumer satisfaction feedback. Like administration of this web-site, it would require some due dilligence to control spam and guard against (as much as possible) malicious/liable postings. Can't wait for the site info - but I guess I'll have too.
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oldtimer
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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Oct 9 2010 16:52:40
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The term false positive can be misleading... Unconfirmed, unproductive or unverified alert are more accurate terms.
The K9 has alerted, but "no visual evidence was found" does not necessarily mean that a bed bug was not present, if there are inaccessible spaces or highly complex environments in the search area.
In an uncontrolled environment... outside of the laboratory or a training room... we cannot know with certainty if an alert was false... All we know is that we were unable to confirm the alert with physical evidence.
This is a major challenge for field research on K9 accuracy.
If the K9 alerts to a location wit loose floor boards or furnishings that we do not have permission to open up... That alert would best be described as unconfirmed or unverified.
When we do not have physical evidence to confirm an alert location... that does not necessarily mean that it was a false alert.
The term false positive K9 alert is confusing for the general public... Unconfirmed K9 alert is a better term.
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oldtimer
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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Oct 9 2010 17:03:20
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Canuck
Ensuring that the consumer feedback rating is credible is one of the biggest challenges.
We are thinking about a ten star rating system based on feedback from consumers.
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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Oct 9 2010 18:34:34
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A 10-level range is good. I find a 3 or 5 level system very limiting, producing results that only highlight the very best/worst.
Will the consumer pick the rating or are you designing a short questionnaire that automatically caculates the final rating? At what point do you collect the feedback - right after the k9 inspection, and prior to treatment, after the initial treatment, after 2/3 months, etc.? So many questions, and this is only one aspect you are addressing. I can see you have your work cut out for you.
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overload
newbite
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Posted 2 years ago
Mon Dec 20 2010 23:50:57
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What has the International/National Pest Control Ass have to do with K9's?
Does the public even know there are many ORT /NORT ...look it up!
K9 Odor test already available?
How many scams before it pops?
I see maybe two more years for K-9's with the latest news. One person wants to take over and make millions. But the cats out of the bag already.
And the poor people that purchased these dogs, I feel sorry for them. -
HelpinDC
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Posted 2 years ago
Tue Jan 4 2011 12:55:00
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Sorry if I am on the wrong thread (if I am, please just tell me where to move to)!
Can bed bug sniffing dogs distinguish between dead and live bugs? We just had our apartment heat-treated yesterday and a dog is coming on Friday to determine whether or not we have successfully gotten rid of them. I'm worried, though, that the dog will sniff any dead bugs left from the treatment and signal that we still have bugs if we don't. Thanks! -
your host
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Posted 2 years ago
Tue Jan 4 2011 12:59:32
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Some can, some can't. You need to ask the firm you hired. You may also want to read our FAQ on canine scent detection before you hire one.
If you want to discuss this further, please go to the main forums page (click Forums above) and then click "Add new" above the green box. This starts a new thread.
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HelpinDC
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Posted 2 years ago
Tue Jan 4 2011 13:16:21
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Thanks! It's not up to me, my landlord hired the company. Hopefully they hired one that has dogs who can distinguish. I will be sure to ask when they come on Friday.
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btaggart
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Posted 2 years ago
Tue Jan 4 2011 15:00:11
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if you want you can name the company and maybe people on the forum will be able to give you some feedback
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Posted 2 years ago
Fri Feb 18 2011 19:39:52
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We are looking for a supplier for the screening over our plastic vial for bed bugs. Right now it is plankton screen, but we do not know the micron size. Any advice on suppliers and the micron size would be appreciated. FYI - we have the bugs for training maintenance of our bed bug dog. Thank you.
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your host
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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Feb 19 2011 1:09:35
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Canuck - 5 hours ago »
We are looking for a supplier for the screening over our plastic vial for bed bugs. Right now it is plankton screen, but we do not know the micron size. Any advice on suppliers and the micron size would be appreciated. FYI - we have the bugs for training maintenance of our bed bug dog. Thank you.Hi Canuck,
You might also private message bed-bugscouk (David Cain), thebedbugresource (Sean Rollo), and loubugs (Lou Sorkin) who all keep colonies (as I recall) but may not be reading the k9 thread as avidly as some. They may have a suggestion.
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newbite
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Posted 2 years ago
Sun Feb 27 2011 23:19:00
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HelpinDC - 1 month ago »
Sorry if I am on the wrong thread (if I am, please just tell me where to move to)!
Can bed bug sniffing dogs distinguish between dead and live bugs? We just had our apartment heat-treated yesterday and a dog is coming on Friday to determine whether or not we have successfully gotten rid of them. I'm worried, though, that the dog will sniff any dead bugs left from the treatment and signal that we still have bugs if we don't. Thanks!I the dog and trainer are well trained they can, if not, they are in the wrong business.
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The NPMA started the CIDD (Canine Insect Detction Dogs) Comittee in 2009 to help PCO's and bed bug clients in the understanding and use of canines for bed bug detection. They have listed a set of minimum standards for use and certification. You can locate it on pestworld.org.
A new non-profit association has been started as a 3rd party certification body called the IAOCPI (www.iaocpi.com). The problem as we see it, to have the trainer certify the dog / handler presents a conflict of interest. And to drive to Florida to certify with NESDCA is costly and time consuming. For these reasons many teams out there today are not certified by a 3rd party certifying body and won't be unless a fair, equitable, and impartial method of certifying is developed.
The IAOCPI has come up with a method of certifying teams without the need for travel and large sums of cash in the form of dues, travel, and lost revenues.
I am excited about the association but my reason for posting here is inform the readers of this forum that the IAOCPI exist and where to find more information about the association. For the record I am a trainer, handler, and a founding member of the IAOCPI.
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As I mentioned, the NPMA has a Bed Bugs best management practises. The link to view this is
http://www.bedbugbmps.org/PDF/bed_bug_bmps_for_consumers_FINAL.pdf -
Somechic
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Posted 2 years ago
Wed Mar 23 2011 14:25:15
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I brought a sample of what I thought might be a bed bug into the Westchester County Home Show for identification I had read a blog that J.P. McHale Pest Management had someone there identifying bugs. The sample I had was to smashed and in pieces. But they offered their K9 team and said they also offered treatment options if I do have a problem. I haven't decided yet.
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your host
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Posted 2 years ago
Thu Mar 24 2011 0:28:44
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Somechick,
Before you hire a canine team, you may want to read this FAQ.
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your host
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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Mar 26 2011 13:06:33
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Let me remind everyone of the first post above:
This thread is for discussion of the bed bug k9 industry including various training approaches, trainers, certification, etc.
It is not a thread for talking about specific bed bug k9 services.If you are a consumer, this is not the thread to ask for recommendations about bed bug k9s. Instead, start a new thread (tag it "bed bug k9s").
This is a space for people to discuss the bed bug k9 industry. This is a topic which has consumed many other threads which started out on other topics, and I think it is important that a dedicated space be provided, so people can be sent here rather than diverting other discussions.
Lately consumers have been asking for recommendations on this thread. If this happens again, please do not respond. Instead, remind them to start a new thread.
Also, if you are in the k9 or PCO business, you need to disclose any connections you may have with a firm when you "recommend" them. If you can't, don't post recommendations. Thanks!
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your host
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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Mar 26 2011 13:08:45
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bugwrecked asked for a recommendation and actionwdi offered one and, since it was clear bugwrecked had seen the response, these posts have been deleted as being off topic in this thread.
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For all of those that have canines or anyone thinking of getting one there is a Canine Conference scheduled for June 1-3 in Philidephia, PA put on by the National Pest Management Association. There is an impressive lin up of speakers covering topics regarding training, upkeep, liability and more. Go to the NPMA's website for more information regarding registration.
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oldtimer
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Posted 2 years ago
Thu Mar 31 2011 15:17:37
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I'm going with my bullet proof vest on
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oldtimer
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Posted 2 years ago
Fri Apr 1 2011 20:29:23
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Maybe we could get NPMA to set up a full body scanner at the meeting entrance
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oldtimer
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Posted 2 years ago
Sun Apr 3 2011 19:49:10
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Can't do it. The dog collars will slow down entry for everyone. I'm just gunna have to pack heavy myself.
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oldtimer
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Posted 2 years ago
Mon Apr 4 2011 1:13:14
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Sounds like it will be an interesting conference
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oldtimer
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Posted 2 years ago
Thu Apr 7 2011 8:43:02
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I can sling Milano's like a boomerang!
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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Apr 9 2011 9:05:16
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Wish it was closer. I'd like to see the visual confirmation crowd pick a leader and insist on this practice by all k9 teams. Not that my name carries much weight, but I would be willing to sign a letter showing support for that being the standard. Doug, I know you are in favor of visual confirmation and train your teams that way, is this going to be a major topic at the convention?
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oldtimer
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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Apr 9 2011 15:30:51
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David,
I expect that visual confirmation will be a major topic at the NPMA conference in Philadelphia.As you know, the NPMA recently published their Best Management Practices (BMP) document.
The BMPs list visual confirmation as one option for verification.... Here are two of the sections that are relevant to the core issue of alert confirmation.
9.3. The presence of bites or assurances by residents that bed bugs are present should be considered carefully.
* 9.3.1. It is not possible to tell from an apparent bite if it was caused by a bed bug. Bite reactions vary, and bites from other insects may have similar appearance to those of bed bugs.
* 9.3.2. Skin infections and conditions can also look like insect bites.
* 9.3.3. Technicians must confirm that the pest is the bed bug, Cimex lectularius, and not any of the closely related bugs that infest bats and birds, which require different control tactics.Section 10.8 lists three options for confirmation of a K9 team alert
10.8. Prior to making a treatment, the canine handler or a pest management professional should attempt to confirm the canine alert by:
* 10.8.1. Visually inspecting the area to confirm the presence of an active infestation, or
* 10.8.2. Utilizing a second canine team, or,
* 10.8.3. In some situations, the client may elect to have the room(s) treated without secondary confirmationClick here for the full NPMA BMP text
http://www.bedbugbmps.org/PDF/bed_bug_bmps_for_consumers_FINAL.pdfMy question at the meeting will be...
How can we satisfy the requirements listed in 9.3... To confirm that the pest is a bed bug and not a closely related pest, skin condition or other source... If the methodologies listed under 10.8.2 (2nd K9) or 10.8.3 (No visual ID) are utilized?
Treating an occupied space on the basis of a K9 alert without any secondary confirmation is very problematic as well... A K9 alert is not the equivalent of a proper visual identification by a well trained PMP.
Certification standards, testing procedures and which K9 organizations will be recognized by NPMA will be the other major issues.
Here is the agenda for the conference
https://www.npmapestworld.org/events/documents/caninebrochureFINAL.pdfI believe that we will hear the national experts like Dr. Larry Myers and Terry Fleck be highly supportive of visual confirmation as the appropriate standard for K9 detection.
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Posted 2 years ago
Sun Apr 10 2011 10:47:44
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Knew you would be on top of it, and like you I wish the npma best practices would have been more stringent on the necessity of visual confirmation. Good luck at the conference, is it just the time and effort of doing a visual confirmation that causes this to be such a problem for some dog handler's? Still curious as to why they don't want it as part of standard practices.
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oldtimer
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Posted 2 years ago
Sun Apr 10 2011 19:12:50
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David,
I have spoken with some of the K9 companies that have a no visual inspection policy.
The conversation is always the same...
They say..."I don't have the time".. Or "I can't afford to spend that much time on a service call."
My usual response is... " You can't afford to NOT perform the visual... The visual is a critical quality control procedure... How can you measure the accuracy rate of your K9 team, if you do not perform any visual inspection of the identified locations?"
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Posted 2 years ago
Sun Apr 10 2011 19:40:13
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I talk to people with bed bugs everyday from all over the country, whenever dogs come up my advice is to ask the company before hiring them if they confirm via visual inspection what the dogs find, if the company says they don't or won't, I tell the person to call another dog handler. I let them know that this is the industry standard agreed upon by the vast majority of bed bug researchers around the planet.
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FelixNewYorl
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Posted 2 years ago
Mon Apr 18 2011 11:56:53
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Has anyone given any thought to the conflict of interest that exists with NESDCA, the "official" certifying body, being so closely affiliated with a pest control company? It seems like a bad mix of interests with the VP of NESDCA owning one of the largest pest control businesses in the Mid-Atlantic. I'm curious for feedback and do not doubt the accuracy of certified teams (who I have worked closely with), but does that affect their credibility? Isn't the point of a test/certification to ensure there is no bias, and isn't the point of the dog inspection to validate the presence of bugs and not just trust the exterminator?
Feedback certainly appreciated.
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Posted 2 years ago
Mon Apr 18 2011 13:39:11
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I would think the conflict only occurs if the person in question is on the certification board or a judge in the process, etc.; not that I am in favour of NESDCA nor against - there are other bodies out there tackling the issue.
I too would like to see this handled efficiently and effectively and not negatively impact a worthwhile industry that is developing. By this I mean the 'scent detection' industry. Whether the target is cell phones, insects, drugs, explosives, cancer cells, e-coli, fruit (the list seems to grow every day) - the principles of training and maintenance appear to me to be the same. I don't see this same hassle over drug/bomb K9 teams. Nor do I see a problem with the training academy running certification exams. What is needed is, like accounting's GAAP (generally accepted accounting principles), generally accepted scent detection principles (GASDP). Hmmm, lousy acroynm, but you get the picture.
Aside note - tacking K9s seem to me, to be a little different - so many more variables involved with a highly mobile target.
And for the record - definitely in favour of visual confirmation; 'show me the bed bed bug'.
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Posted 2 years ago
Mon Apr 18 2011 20:40:59
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Kudos Canuck! Great to hear you are in the visual confirm crowd.
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Posted 2 years ago
Tue Apr 19 2011 0:49:28
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Thanks djames. I know I am in good company. Which reminded me I had better update my profile and get the other half of the business to join the bed bugger crowd. We sure wish we could go to the conference. Why the heck aren't they joining the modern age and have live feed? It could be almost as good as the playoffs.
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brooklyn_upallnight
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Posted 2 years ago
Wed Apr 20 2011 18:31:10
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Had my home inspected by a k-9 yesterday. In my opinion, k-9 inspection doesn't work. Why?
1. K-9 detection is limited to adult bed bugs. The k-9 will not positively identify the scent of a bed bug unless it's an adult bed bug. The k-9 does not identify nymphs or bed bug eggs.
2. The k-9 needs to be prompted. The k-9 needs to be prompted by the k-9 technician to smell a particular area. I was under the impression that the dog would roam a small area of the room and indicate if the bed bug scent is sourced in that area. It turns out that the k-9 inspector has to tap his fingers on the specific area that needs to be sniffed in order for the dog to start put its nose to it, directly.
3. The k-9 can only detect within a 6 inch radius of its nose. If there are bed bugs 10 inches away from the area that the k-9 technician tapped his fingers, the dog won't be able to detect the scent of bed bugs. In other words, the dog's nose needs to be DIRECTLY ON a hidden ADULT BED BUG in order for the process to work.
This process is complete rubbish.
So, the k-9 technician hid a vile of the bed bugs. Then tapped other areas of the room for the dog to sniff. He eventually came around to tapped where the vile was hidden and it took for the dog to sniff the area 5 times in order to indicate that it smelled bed bugs by sitting down (the PCO informed me that the dog is trained to sit in front of the area harboring bed bugs). The dog was given some dog food as a reward. You see, the dog doesn't eat unless it detects the scent of bed bugs. This demonstration was meant to reassure me that the dog was able to detect bed bugs.
What's funny is that about an hour after the k-9 tech removed the vile, the dog was let loose in my home as the technician and I were chatting. The dog roamed around and then went back to where the vile of bed bugs had been hidden and later removed, it sniffed the area a few times, sat down and then looked up at the k-9 technician expectantly.
Are you thinking what I am thinking? The dog is hungry. The dog is clever. Now, why have we as humans resorted to relying on these adorable, clever dogs? Why are k-9 technicians able to get a license by taking a 40 hour course and buying a $3,000 dog?
The k-9 technician is really a construction worker who only received his k-9 certification in November 2010 and doesn't have much experience with pest control. When he saw my packtite, he didn't even know what it was and had never heard of one. He also didn't know that bed bugs have 5 stages, and need to feed in order to molt from one stage to the next.
This process and the technician is more than likely a scam.
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oldtimer
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Posted 2 years ago
Thu Apr 21 2011 11:54:37
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Brooklyn,
The handler that made these claims is wrong on all points.
1) A properly trained K9 can detect all life stages... eggs, nymphs and adult bed bugs... This is a well established fact.
2) Many handlers direct the inspection with hand signals to ensure that all areas of interest are checked by the K9... The dog is quite capable of detecting bed bugs without prompting... It sounds like you were dealing with an inexperienced handler.
3)The K9s nose does not need to be within six inches of an adult bed bug... Dogs can detect bed bugs at much greater distances... We routinely hide vials of bed bugs in locations that are 6 - 8 feet above the floor during training.
The size and shape of the scent cone is variable and asymmetrical... The distance will depend on several factors such as air movement and level of infestation... I try to get my K9 within a couple feet of any area of interest during an inspection.
The going rate for a properly trained K9 is closer to $10,000... If the dog in question cost 3K... You are likely dealing with someone that that was not trained by one of the established K9 providers.
The key active ingredient for a K9 team is the skill of the handler... Not understanding the basic biology of bed bug development is unacceptable for a PMP that specializes in bed bug inspections.
I'm sorry that you had a bad experience, but I have to take issue with the idea that K9 inspection is a scam.
A properly handled K9 is an accurate tool... The problems you described are related to handling skill... not food reward... The critical issue is the relationship between the K9 and the handler.
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srrausch
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Posted 2 years ago
Thu Apr 28 2011 8:59:35
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I am interested in training a little rat terrier mix that I own to detect bed bugs. So far the only information I can find is about buying dogs that are already trained or the idea that it is best to buy a dog already trained. I have been training dogs in many disciplines for over 14 years and currently have two certified search and rescue bloodhounds. I am an Environmental Health professional and have extensive knowledge, training and experience about bed bugs and “human” bed bug searches and detection. The State of Kentucky does not have a single bed bug detection dog team and I would very much like to be the first. I am capable of training my dog myself; just need some advice on how to get started and where to get live bed bug scent for training purposes. Also some recommendations on good certification or evaluation programs would be helpful.
Thank you
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Posted 2 years ago
Thu Apr 28 2011 15:20:37
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Moved from another thread:
DougSummersMS - 7 hours ago »
GoofyK9
I have never heard of that company... Check to see how many bed bug detection K9 teams they have in the field.
There are a number of companies that are just starting to enter the field now.
Are they qualified to train dogs for forensic applications like bomb or arson detection?
Labs are great scent detection dogs... You are looking for a friendly dog with a strong hunting drive. -
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Posted 2 years ago
Sat Apr 30 2011 21:06:07
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SRRausch - I have heard family pets do not - generally - cross over to working dogs too well. That being said I do know of 1 great working dog that started off as the family pet - and a cocker spaniel too boot. Very methodical, thorough little dog.
I understand a trainer tests about 100 to 150 dogs before the right combination of drive, hunting instinct, and balanced disposition is discovered; and then some of those dogs wash out. Takes an incredible drive to stay the course; for the handler too.
There are several training facilities that will take your dog and train it...works best if you live near-by so you can visit and work with the dog as well.
As for reference materials - try looking for drug/bomb training references. Of course, you are going to have to maintain a colony of live bedbugs or keep replenishing your supply. You want to train only to live viable bed bugs and eggs. Also, are you going with a food or play reward system? And like your SAR K9s, daily maintenance training is a must.
Like your SAR dogs, it is a lot of work and a big time committment.
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Brooklyn,
The gentlemen that came over to your house for detection was obviously poorly trained. As DougSummersMS pointed at already, I can assure you that Bed Bugs K-9 can detect any kind of Bed Bugs, regardless in which stage they are in.
I would like to go back to the food reward issue. The reason why the dog alerted where the vile was is because the scent was still strong. When a vile is placed, the scent will propagate throughout the area around it. Eventually, if the scent in the vile is strong enough and left long enough, the objects (couches, beds, picture frames...) will pick up that scent.
That said, you were probably thinking: "why did the dog sit/paw (whatever the indication is) if there were no Bed Bugs, the vile is gone, this is a scam!". It isn't, the dog wanted more food and went back in seeking mode. The dog alerted where it was previously rewarded. The dog was not wrong, the odor was still strong enough that it recognized the smell. The dog would not have alerted if the odor was not there in the first place. In other words, if nobody had a vile at that location, then the dog would not have shown a signal of interest.
In the K-9 world, we call that "residual odor", even if there are no apparent Bed Bugs, the smell is still there. Therefore, if the handler you met was experienced enough (or trained well), he would have known. Moreover, this is why a visual inspection is so crucial. Even if the dog alert, a visual inspection is absolutely necessary.
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BARBI
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Posted 1 year ago
Thu Jun 9 2011 16:09:10
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I FOUND ONE BED BUG THAT I TRIED TO CATCH AND DISSAPEARED AS SOON AS I THOUGHT I GRABBED IT WITH SOEM TOILET PAPER .. THIS HAPPENED TWO TIME IN A TWO DAY PERIOD !! ARE THEY SUPER FAST OR SOMETHING .. DO THEY JUMP I WANT TO KNOW SO I CAN GT IT OUT OF MY HOUSE ... I ONLY HAVE ONE IT SEEMS SO FAR. I AM FREAKING OUT!!! HELP!!
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Posted 1 year ago
Thu Jun 9 2011 16:38:49
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BARBI - 27 minutes ago »
I FOUND ONE BED BUG THAT I TRIED TO CATCH AND DISSAPEARED AS SOON AS I THOUGHT I GRABBED IT WITH SOEM TOILET PAPER .. THIS HAPPENED TWO TIME IN A TWO DAY PERIOD !! ARE THEY SUPER FAST OR SOMETHING .. DO THEY JUMP I WANT TO KNOW SO I CAN GT IT OUT OF MY HOUSE ... I ONLY HAVE ONE IT SEEMS SO FAR. I AM FREAKING OUT!!! HELP!!
Barbi,
It's best to start a new thread for each new topic.
moved your post here. Everyone else, please go there to respond to Barbi.
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Posted 1 year ago
Sun Jun 12 2011 13:47:54
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In regard to Joe Nicholas I met one of his trained handlers and canines at the CT NESDCA certification. The team was unbelievable. The canine works off lead, and is trained on play reward! He was the fastest certified team there. Since then I have personally met with Joe and even though I have two food reward canines from j&k I believe I will get a play reward. We also look for physical confirmation and we train with our dogs EVERY DAY day even when we work in the field. Our dogs are good and my handler and I are dedicated but there is still that background worry that the canine CAN hit cause its hungry. Also as we all know stress travels down the lead so a canine that can work off lead is probably good for those stressful days. Also for areas like movie theatres and we do a lot of camps I believe they will be a lot faster. I will probably end up with two canines from him and have one food and one play on each team. I saw him training in South Jersey and the lab was off the charts on searching-very active and intense. Joe Nicholas was the one that got the dogs in the NJ Corrections to find cell phones. How do you get a dog to find a device made out of metal and plastic in a prison environment? Great guy too. Very intense but he certainly knows how to train.
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Posted 1 year ago
Tue Jun 14 2011 20:05:52
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goofyk9,
If you post in a LONG link to a youtube video (Share-->Options-->Long link), the video will display in the forums.
Please stop linking to Joe's website. As you have posted the link at least two times previously above, I have deleted it in your most recent post. It's starting to look like you're promoting a business, even if you do not intend this.
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Posted 1 year ago
Wed Jun 15 2011 20:59:03
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I am sure the seminar will be worth it. He gives out a lot of information on training that I have found helpful. It also depends on what camp you are from. Joe Nicholas likes play reward better than food reward so depending on how you run your dogs it may conflict with what you have been taught. I know he has helped several people that were having issues with their dogs with good results. All around nice guy and a dynamite trainer. I am sure we will be seeing a lot of his dogs in the field eventually.
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Posted 1 year ago
Thu Jun 16 2011 22:50:40
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googyk9,
jeffklein hit the nail on the head - it does depend what camp you are from. And what is right for one handler and for one dog may not work as well - or better - with another team. It is, imho, a science and an art. I also suspect master dog trainers are a lot more like cats then they care to admit - cause, sometimes, when they get together - the fur can fly.
Kidding aside, we did 4 months of intensive research delving into likely breeds, dog training approaches and techniques, play vs food reward, telephone interviews, reference checks, etc. Then thought long and hard about the commitments required - finances, k9 insurance, liability insurance, time and energy for the daily k9 training, and such. In all we went with what, we figured, would work for us. It is a very personal - and expensive - choice. Trust your research and your instinct - then when work starts - trust your dog.
My apologies for a tardy post to your original query - wanted to post last night but experienced some computer bugs.
Ken
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jnickk-9@comcast.net
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Posted 1 year ago
Sun Jun 19 2011 1:47:56
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Hello my name is joseph nicholas my friends call me joenick I have spent most of my life training /working k-9s and im not good with this lab top so please bear with me. I would like to say a few thing first thank you to the people that wrote about me .I only want to help anyone that wants to learn we can all learn from each other and our k-9 partners. even if its what not to do,most of the time the dog teaches us the right way if we can read and understand what he trying to say.In the bedbug world most of the dog ive seen are ok its the dog handler that needs the help,and the tool[ k-9] that we now have in the bedbug world needs to be worked and trained to be the best. Dogs work for 3 reasons THEY want to/THEY have to/THEY get payed to I dont care if its food or toy the handler must learn whats good
for his/her dog I wish we all could work together but as we all know that might never happen .I am posting my cell number 609 805-6476 if any dog handler or trainer wants to learn some great training tips or needs help then please give me a call we can help each other.The only thing i would like to see in this bedbug/dog world is the team of handler/dog working as a great team one bad team hurts us all the one problem that most bedbug handlers say they have is they get a dog and then when they need help its hard to find it.I will not speak bad of any dog trainer ill just let the dog they trained speak for them..As far as trainers who is great/who is not great I dont care .BUT if dog trainers are fighting over who is the best then the only people that lose are the dog handlers. in closing please note i am only offering help nothing negative [PS] remember this if your dog is not working the way it should be then is it fair to have people pay for that work note would you? AND if your child were lost in the woods would you want a dog with a cold looking for them ME EITHER . food for thought thank you joenick [ the way you act is the way your dog learns at each end of the lead] -
Hello everyone!
I am currently starting a bed bug detection business using a dog, in Paris, France.
I am stunned by some of the comments on the site. I am new to this business, and I have been taught:
- work with your dog EVERY DAY
- when the dog alerts ALWAYS make a visual verification.It seems that a lot of handlers do not respect these rules and maybe that is why k9 detection is not always as good as it should be?
I am every day surprised by the efficiency of my dog. Of course, we have bad days and good days, but the bad days are always my fault... too tired or stressed, and my dog feels it and it influences our work.
I think k9 detection is a job in itself, I am not sure you can do different jobs and different things, and stay good at this without giving it your 100%.
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Hi All,
I am the Operations Manager for ACES Bed Bug K9. Joenick is our master trainer and has a love of the game. He has tried to share his great wealth of knowledge with many and ACES has asked that where possible we use his many years and depth of knowledge to assist the industry. To this end we have Joe doing a 2 day seminar in Newark, NJ where there will be some lecture and much hands on work. If you feel like we do that learning is a lifelong experience feel free to pm me or to go to our website and call or email to get registered. I can say we are quickly reaching capacity but there are some seats left. should anyone want to contact Joe feel free to call 1-866-385-7354.
Geoffrey -
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Posted 1 year ago
Fri Jun 24 2011 16:23:04
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goofyk9 was portraying himself as customer thinking about buying an ACES dog trained by Joe Nicholas.
All of goofyk9's posts above have now been deleted since it now appears he has a connection with ACESBB.
The terms of service remind you to:
Never talk about a company you own or work for (or have other relationships with) as if you are a customer... Disclose your relationship with companies you mention.
I want to stress that I am always happy to hear of dog trainers talking about how to improve quality in this industry, as is the case above.
I plead with everyone in the industry to let that quality also extend to the way you market your services and products.
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jnickk-9@comcast.net
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Posted 1 year ago
Fri Jul 29 2011 19:33:50
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Hello this is joenick ive worked with dogs for 28yrs my real name is joseph nicholas. I would like to start by saying at this time( i work for no one and i help anyone) The web host nobugsonme has given us in the k-9 field a way to help each other by way of this site but no one ever uses it.So i am going to start but first let me say i am not good with lap tops and i am a real trainer i just don't say that to loud cause i don't want to hurt any ones feeling. OK lets get started if we want to make this bed bug dog work better then first we must help our dog handlers and their k-9 partner work as a team.by doing this teaching them different ways to work the k-9 so they are a better team and show them tip and tricks to get the dog working better in the field.( exp).Today I worked a class on scent cones and ways scent moves in different places and how it moves i worked 5 bed bug dog and handlers each team was given a problem and had to work it out once they know what to look for and how to fix it they looked better then the first time and the dog worked better.In closing i want to say if you as a dog handler feel good when your working your dog then your dog most likely feels good But if you don't feel good about the search trust me your dog knows somethings wrong and your dead in the bed bug world.Please again let me thank the host of this site for letting trainers that want to help write on this web and remember training dogs can be done in many ways but the best way is the way you get the best from your dog.if anyone wants to reach out for me please feel free to call me my cell is 609 805-6476 and my home is 856 358-3081 and if you want or don't know me please just google my real name maybe it's time the dog dealers stopped pushing out dogs and started pushing out trained teams that do work not just play the part . Well time for me to go if anyone would like to talk please give me a call ( tip of the day) Love of the game if the dog loves it. the dog WANT TO PLAY IT The game. joenick
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Posted 1 year ago
Mon Aug 1 2011 1:23:54
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Hi joe nick,
Your posts violate the rules about promoting your business on the forums, as do those of ACESBB, and of goofyk9.
Goofyk9's posts were deleted, and as I already noted, goofyk9 was apparently connected with ACES and pretending to be an interested customer, in blatant violation of our rules.
It's okay to say "Hi folks, I'm a canine trainer with new ideas." It's okay to discuss your ideas about training k9s here. It's okay to talk about best practices for training k9s. In fact, I'd love to have you participate more in the discussions here. I think everyone would love to hear more about your methods and experiences.
But if you are here to promote your paid services as a trainer or handler (or anything else), then you've gone over the line of what's allowed on the forums.
Repeatedly talking about how your methods are different and encouraging people to email you and call you at various numbers to find out more is a form of advertising, and advertising is not allowed in forum threads. (You can take out paid ads in the appropriate locations here if you like. Contact me for information.)
Please read the Terms and Conditions of Use and the special rules which apply to pros in the forums for more information.
Thanks for understanding!
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jnickk-9@comcast.net
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Posted 1 year ago
Mon Aug 1 2011 14:51:53
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Nobugsonme Sir. If my post violated any rule on your forum im sorry that is not my intent. my intent was to let people know i work for no one and help anyone.At one time i worked with aces but i don,t anymore but it seems we keep getting placed together . Sir i don,t charge on your site the reason i give my phone number is because i can.t read and write very well on this lab top So people call and i help them for free I DON.T CHARGE for my help on your site. Also i don,t be live some of the dog sellers out their want the world to find out what their selling some of the people so all call are free and tip are free no charge on your site that my reason for my phone number on your site. Sir as far as advertising i don,t need to do that.I have plenty of people . Iv,e watched the k-9s teams in the bed bug world for over 3yrs and have seen some good dog trainers and some no so good dog trainers.And if your a good dog trainer/ you here of all the problems the handler are having A ND if you care you want to help . that,s what i tried to do help the dog handlers that wanted help
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jnickk-9@comcast.net
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Posted 1 year ago
Mon Aug 1 2011 15:22:44
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Sir see im not good on this so before you read this go back up one and read first to second this is the second thanks BY way of your forum. If you ask the twenty or so people who have called i never charged anyone and some have been to my training sites and trained for free. Sir please call me and speak to me then you will know me i can.t talk good on this and my daughter is tired of spelling for me .But one thing is for shore The only thing i don,t like in the bed bug world is the fake dog trainers in it that try and take advance of the people who spend a great deal of money for a dog and then go to a 2day 3day or 4day WONDER school to become a handler/and/certified. IN closing and for the record IF anyone needs help and wants it call and nobugsonme please call its all free PS if i said something that was miss read im sorry and in truly closing THIS forum was but up to help dogtrainers and handlers i would like to use it maybe its time the doghandlers got so great dog training from use all thankyou joenick LOVE OF THE GAME the K-9 GAME.
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Mon Aug 1 2011 16:02:40
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jnickk-9@comcast.net - 36 minutes ago »
Sir see im not good on this so before you read this go back up one and read first to second this is the second thanks BY way of your forum. If you ask the twenty or so people who have called i never charged anyone and some have been to my training sites and trained for free. Sir please call me and speak to me then you will know me i can.t talk good on this and my daughter is tired of spelling for me .But one thing is for shore The only thing i don,t like in the bed bug world is the fake dog trainers in it that try and take advance of the people who spend a great deal of money for a dog and then go to a 2day 3day or 4day WONDER school to become a handler/and/certified. IN closing and for the record IF anyone needs help and wants it call and nobugsonme please call its all free PS if i said something that was miss read im sorry and in truly closing THIS forum was but up to help dogtrainers and handlers i would like to use it maybe its time the doghandlers got so great dog training from use all thankyou joenick LOVE OF THE GAME the K-9 GAME.Hi Joe,
Even if your services are free, you're still kind of turning this into an advertising thread, which isn't allowed.
I understand you don't want to stick around the forums, because you don't like reading and writing online. That's fine.
You've put your offer out there, and I wish you well. I have not deleted the posts which repeatedly invited people to call. However, I would ask that you please don't continue to post messages of this nature. Your invitation has been noted and do not need to be repeated over and over.
This thread is for people who want to discuss bed bug k9s, methods, best practices, etc. and you are welcome to participate here in that discussion.
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jnickk-9@comcast.net
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Posted 1 year ago
Mon Aug 1 2011 21:18:00
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Hi nobugsonme Thank you for not deleting my post and yes i understand what you want in ref to post no problem with that. One thing it,s not that i don,t like reading/writing it,s i can,t read/write that well but thanks for letting me stay on your post. OK let talk about bedbug methods/practices . does any other trainer out their see the large amount of dog teams that need help and if you do, know why. I have spent quiet some time working on this answer . Let think about it 3 or 4 yrs ago when the bedbug news hit the world they said what do we do/what do we do then came the bedbug dog and the world said he was the hero the answer the greatest and than came the dog trainers many so called dog trainers and many new dog handler to train lots of money to be made.BUT then the world started to see a lot of bad bedbug dogs working in the field and started to dislike the dogs and handlers I don,t blame them In every business we the people are our own worst enemy. So now we need to help each other or all of us both good trainers/bad trainers will be put in the same boat that's. sinking. Here what we do every time you see a handler offer to help and if they ask help the only thing this does is help. the new handler if they have a problem the next time they might ask because you offered and if they don,t then you tried. Let not forget when we were new it takes time to bond/flow with your dog as a team.We must teach the new handlers this as they grow in this business and get other dogs they will become better dog handlers at least i hope so.Oh and lets not forget the dog trainers the great you know who you are the So called dog trainers you to know who you are Maybe the answer to my question is we see so many bad dog teams right now because they were taught that way by bad dog trainers .and because they were new and did not know the write way witch is why we need your help, good dog trainers . I,D like to close by asking a what do i do question as a good dog trainer. Last week a lawyer from another state contacted me and asked me to video a dog as i evaluated it the dog just came up here from his state and the dog will not work at all and pees all over every where. well let just say Ive trained dog for quiet some time and can,t understand how he got to be what they say he is .after 3days of trying what do i do .Or should i do whats right. well hope to here from you good trainers soon joenick food for thought.
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Posted 1 year ago
Tue Aug 2 2011 0:27:04
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Hi Joe,
One suggestion, instead of writing: if you want to, you can contribute here by speaking your ideas into a video, posting it on YouTube and posting the long YouTube link here. It will embed automatically.
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I have been an avid reader of this thread for the past year or so and just joined to add to the forum. I feel this is a great forum that gives a lot of good information to not only consumers, but to us in the industry too.
I'd like to comment to the recent talks about Joe Nicholas. I had purschased my K9 detection dog about a year ago and spent over a week training with the dog. And have been training regularly with my dog on a weekly basis since bringing her home. But I went to Philly to the K9 bed bug detection conference (which was very informative by the way) to not only learn about the industry by all the great speakers but also to certify with the third-party certifying agencies that were there. I figured I knew my dog could find bed bugs and I knew how to handle the dog. Well I was wrong, I failed 2 out of the 3 agencies test and just passed the third. I was devastated! I thought to myself how could I provide a service to a customer if I couldn't be certified by an agency. After this disappointment, I was sitting in the last session of the conference and Joe Nicholas sat down next to me and asked where I was from. Which I replied central NJ and so we exchanged where were both exactly were from. And then he proceeded to ask me how my dog was. In which I replied, not very good. He inquired more and I told him what had happened, then offered to help me if I needed it.
A few weeks had past and I had a test for a major pest control company here in NJ company coming up and I knew I was going to fail. So I decided to give Joe a call and see what he was about. Now a little about me before I go on. I have worked with dogs for about 8 years, specifically German Shepherd dogs (GSD), I have trained my dogs in basic obedience, and helped rescue GSDs, and started apprenticing in trainging dogs in basic obedience and dog behavior. So needless-to-say I have some experience with dogs and training.
I drove an hour and a half to meet with Joe, not the easiest drive by any means! Take my dog out of the truck and then show Joe how the dog works. He was shocked at how she didn't work well. So we talked about how to fix the dog, went over a plan, and started talking techniques. We switched the dogs from food to toy reward and just in the first hour there was a difference in my dog. I trained with Joe for the next 6+ weeks. Again, an hour and a half each way to train with him, but he NEVER charged me a dime. NEVER asked for anything in return, other than helping him clean up the training facility that he uses. I figured I helped mess it up, that's the least I can do.
I had rescheduled the test with the pest control company, now with a lot more confidence in my dog and my ability. So too make this long story short (sorry for that), we PASSED our test. And I have no one to thank but Joe.
Host of the forum, I would like you to know I have no personal or business ties to Joe. He is a gentleman that offered help to me and I accepted. Any other person that I contacted about this wanted a minimum of $500 to help me. I can understand your reason for thinking Joe is trying to advertise, but he is just offereing a hand to anyone who needs is. Nothing more. Again sorry for the length of this post, just wanted to be thorough.
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Posted 1 year ago
Fri Aug 12 2011 1:50:18
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SPEIRK9,
I am so glad that you sought help from someone when you realized your dog was not up to scratch. Speaking as an outside observer on the consumer end of things, that kind of humility sometimes seems to be lacking in this industry. And I am glad Joe was able to help you.
There is some irony in the fact that while emphasizing that Joe is not here to advertise (and yes, I get that), you added yet another testimony which to some degree performs the same function.
Thanks for sharing your experience, though.
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Posted 1 year ago
Fri Aug 12 2011 10:43:12
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SPIER K9
I'm curious?Who provided the original training for you and your dog?
Why didn't you seek support from the company that sold your bed bug detection K9 to you?
How long did you work in the field with your dog before challenging the ORT evaluations in Philadelphia?
Glad to hear that Joe was able to help.
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Doug,
I don't want to name bash here, if you'd like to PM me I will tell you. I will tell you it was from the mid-west. The reason I had not contacted the original training facility was due to the health issues that I had received my dog with and had over $1000 in vet bills that they reluctantly paid. Then after consulting a trainer in my area for obedience, the dog showed signs of physical abuse. Without writing a long story (again), I was not happy with them and had no interest in dealing with them again.
I had been working in the field on a limited basis for approximately 6 months prior to Philly. Fortunately for my clients I had gone to Bed Bug Bootcamp, given by BedBug Central, which if anyone is interested in learning about bed bugs and the treatment of them is a great investment to go to and I learned how to provide a detail visual inspection which I did along with the K9 inspection.
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Posted 1 year ago
Sat Aug 13 2011 3:32:13
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Thanks,
I'll send a PM.
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btaggart
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Posted 1 year ago
Tue Aug 23 2011 11:34:41
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To all scent detection K9 handlers and owners there will be a great hands on workshop that is open to ALL k9 handlers in Ocean City MD. I have attached the link that contains all the info. It will be a great experience for all to troubleshoot and improve the industry as a whole. Hope to see everyone there.
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I find it interesting that I have left 3 messages on the site about the handlers conference and called twice and do not get an answer to who the trainers for this event are.
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Posted 1 year ago
Thu Oct 13 2011 15:38:43
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I have seen/read a lot about NESDCA certified kennels and everything is focused around J&K in Florida. There is another certified kennel - Ironheart in Kansas. When I got my dog I was told NESDCA is a joke. I took it with a grain of salt though. I have also heard of a kennel selling dogs with no training, sending the dog to you and training you and the dog over the phone. WOW! Scary! I train with my Beagle twice a day and I would say spend the most you can afford because when you get out to a clients house you want to feel really confident in your dog. Your dog will sense the handler's confidence and that will improve performance. Of course you do visual inspections as well but finding the bugs can be a needle in a haystack (for instance a young bug that hasn't eaten is about the same shade as unstained wicker furniture) If you are considering buying a dog, in my experience the large dogs seem to have their noses in the air a lot and a lot of bending over and tapping where you want the nose to go can make for a sore back. I'll admit I might be prejudice because I have a mini-beagle...but I'm pretty sure she was born with her nose to the ground and that is her natural way of moving...following her nose.
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Posted 1 year ago
Thu Nov 10 2011 10:23:34
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With NPMA's recent release of BMPs I notice Appendix A has two, what I believe, are changes:
- from a max of 5 live bed bugs or viable eggs to a range of 5 to 20, and
- the allowance of 1 false alert providing the alert is not for a distractorThere is no reference to the square footage for the 4 exam rooms - or the degree of furnishings.
I am glad to see the numbers change - simply because it was a pain to continually wrangle the contents of the vials to keep the numbers below 6. That said, with single bed bugs popping up in more distribution points (here the latest is libraries) I am glad I train with some vials with only 1 or 2 bed bugs.
What are thoughts on specifying the vial diameter, as odour emitting from a 1/4 inch vial, 1/2 inch or 1 inch vial effects the set time - which is specified as a minimum of 30 minutes.
Here' the link: NPMA BMP Appendix A is pages 17 - 19.
Thoughts please?
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myth buster
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Posted 1 year ago
Sat Nov 12 2011 3:39:10
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I would like to see much stricter regulations on BB K9's, not less. Not so much for the dogs but, for the handelers. There should be better standards for them. We have a major problem in the city I live in. Some of the companies that use dogs are just too quick to pull the trigger for bed bug treatments. I get quite a few complaints from my customers about this. I've talked to all kinds of customers that have a place like their office or a school building inspected by a K9. They justwant an inspection because, someone has bed bugs at home or, for a varriety of other reasons but, not because they actually found any. Never the less, the dogs go through and sometimes they alert (Sometimes they alert all over the place as if it is totally infested). Then I get there and there is not one single piece of evidence that indicates they have bed bugs. I believe the dogs in my town are over worked. They run the things all day every day. I know this for a fact. I have been told first hand and, they guy was bragging because he thought this was a good thing.
At least once a month I get a call from a customer that had a K9 inspection and the dog alerteded but, no physical signs of bed bugs can be found. I don't have a problem with false alerts. Even the best dog will get it wrong occationally. What I have a problem with is, the technicians are recomending treatment in far too many of these cases, rather than do further investigation. So, they give them an estimate and leave (if they didn't convince the customer to buy a treatment). In most cases the customers call around for estimates but, they don't expect to hear what I tell them. They don't expect to be told they may not need a treatment.
In many of these cases we are not able to find any signs of bed bugs so, we put out monitors. We come back in a week and, still no bed bugs. If the customer has never found a bed bug we recommend they wait and have us back 2 weeks latter to re-inspect (and monitor again if needed). I like to put out Climb-Ups so the customer can check them until we come back. I will come back several times without charging them a dime if that is what it takes to prove they don't have bed bugs because, I feel sorry for some of them. Plus, I know that they will never call anyone but my company if they ever really do have a pest problem. The customers really like this, the other guys end up looking awful. I'm only saying this because, it is important that our industry, as a whole, is trusted. This kind of stuff makes us all look bad.
After it's all said and done, we eventualy determine that they never had bed bugs at all. Either that or, they likely brought in a single bed bug that was not a full grown, mated, female that could lay eggs so, it just never turns into a problem that requires treatment (this would explain why the dogs alert). This happens all the time. We need to slow down and make sure they have bed bugs before we recommend treatment. One bed bug does not qualify them for treatment if they caught the bug and destroyed it. Whenever this happens, unless another bed bug is found, there is no need for anything beyond inspections and/or monitoring.
Just an observation.
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Posted 1 year ago
Tue Feb 28 2012 11:06:58
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There's No Way You're Gonna Get the Dog"
I am speechless (says while shaking head in dismay).
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Posted 1 year ago
Fri Mar 2 2012 15:52:19
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A number of posts were deleted from this thread today as spam advertisements.
If you're selling a bed bug service or product, you need to read this thread.
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Posted 10 months ago
Mon Jul 16 2012 11:34:08
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Attention K9 Handlers - looking for advice/feedback on bat bug care and feeding, and particularly testing of our bed bug dog with bat bugs. We want to test whether a K9 alerts on live bat bugs; whether her interest/response differs; ensure she does not alert on the dead, etc.
We plan to test separately on live adults, nymphs and dead. Until we can grow our colony, we will not be able to document how long the dead have been dead. Eventually, we would also like to test the dead scent with different methods - natural death, heat, chemical, etc.
I anticipate they will be hungry - the house has been vacant for sometime - and will feed them first. Second, once they have recovered we will confirm they are all bat bugs.
Doug, I recall you mentioned a properly trained dog should alert - have you or do you know of any direct experience/testing in this area?
Paul B - I am sure jealous of that stereo scope you mentioned in another thread.
Are those portable microscopes worth the $? Would like magnification to distinguish a bat bug and would be nice to have on inspection calls so the client can look closely at our samples. Recommendations welcome.
Other trainers/handlers, we welcome your advice.
For the care/feeding, we will ensure the two colony's are stored apart and plan to feed them as we do our regular bed bugs. Hope they find us tasty.
We have been very fortunate that someone whose home has a bat bug infestation has been collecting live specimens for us; we expect the parcel to arrive tomorrow. Playtime will start the end of the week.
Ken Hando
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Posted 10 months ago
Mon Jul 16 2012 14:56:27
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That's really cool, Ken. Good luck with your tests.
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Posted 10 months ago
Wed Jul 18 2012 3:40:29
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Ken,
We have handlers that have identified bat bugs after a K9 alert... A 10x loupe is sufficient for identification.I really like the USB port microscopes... the only downside is that you have carry your notebook system to use it.
I think most K9s that are trained on bed bugs will alert to human fed bat bugs given the similar VOCs that are present... Maintaining a colony on human blood is very difficult... I have not been able to locate a professional source of bat bugs for training.
I have experimented and found that my dog will alert on a hide of bat bugs, but there is no published research on this issue.
We have also identified tropical bed bugs (c hemipterus) with dogs trained on cimex lectularius.
Arson, drug and bomb K9 research has demonstrated that dogs can vary individually in which compounds are recognized to identify a given target.
Dogs can successfully generalize between different strains of marijuana or mold species, for example... but Customs had to retrain their dogs when a new formulation of ecstasy appeared on the market a number of years ago.
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Posted 10 months ago
Fri Jul 20 2012 15:28:33
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As expected several did not survive the ride with Canada Post: only one adult and one nymph that had never fed.
The adult has taken two feedings over just three days. Wow.
The instar has only nibbled as the body has developed some colour. Could be the distance from the screen to host is a bit too far due to the screw cap lid. If it doesn't feed today, we will separate the nymph into another container which places the screen flush with the host. Or, could be the nymph realizes my wife is not a bat (sorry couldn't resist) and the nymph is just not that driven by hunger yet. Or perhaps the young has gone a bit cannibalistic on the adult.
Thanks to Doug pointing out there are two known types of bat bugs recorded in British Columbia:
- C. latipennis - only recorded in British Columbia
- C. pilosellus - recorded British Columbia, Alberta and Saskatchewan (and western US)Our two are from the southern-central area of the province, in a major valley running North-South into the States; my $ is on C. pilosellus
Their specific genealogy will have to wait as I want a breeding pair to build a colony - if possible.
Haven't tested our dog, Loola Loo yet. She had a late job last night and is sleeping in.
Interestingly, my wife has noticed her reaction to the bat bug's bite (assuming it is a bat bug) seems to be somewhat different. Not near as itchy, definitely a defined raised red swelling and lasting only a few days.
Ken Hando
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Posted 10 months ago
Sat Jul 21 2012 12:43:57
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Update: ran Loola through an odour recognition test - placed the vial (vial has a 300 micron screen with a 5/8 inch vial screw top lid) of the 1 adult and 1 instar in a plastic 2 quart tub. Each of the 12 tubs have plastic lids with half a dozen punched holes and are filled with distractions - dead bugs, chocolate, dog and cat kibble, lung treats, 1 empty, 1 with vials, lids and screening, 1 open bucket with tennis balls (a ball is her reward), etc.. Vial set was 2 minutes.
Loola (off-leash) had no hestitation alerting on the vial. She owned it. Doug, you were right, odour seems to be same as C. Lectularius.
Will do a regular blind hide this afternoon. Ken Hando
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Posted 9 months ago
Fri Jul 27 2012 21:08:29
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Sorry for the delay; life got in the way this past week.
Tested with a blind hide this afternoon with the 1 adult and 1st instar (which still has not feed). Set was 20 minutes and she sniffed it out within 3 minutes in 585 sq ft of moderate clutter (stacked boxes in half of the room). Hidden in box spring (she would not be able to see it).
She definitely finds bat bugs without a hitch. Ken Hando.
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Posted 9 months ago
Sat Jul 28 2012 20:39:42
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Nice, Ken. Will you be testing swallow bugs?
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Posted 9 months ago
Sun Jul 29 2012 10:33:59
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Nobugs,
Would love to test other Cimex, like the swallow bugs - just need the bugs.I am happy to report the adult bat bed bug that survived the trip has laid two eggs; still have not managed to get the 1st instar to feed though.
Ken.
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Posted 8 months ago
Sun Sep 2 2012 13:22:22
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Just a little update on my very small colony of bat bugs - the instars are now feeding (they had to get really hungry before they would feed off of us). Unfortunately the female died, so hoping there are both sexes in the offspring. Ken Hando
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newtrainerjm
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Posted 8 months ago
Tue Sep 11 2012 11:50:49
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I am new here and new to bed bug dog training...I have been doing a lot of research and my big concern is bed bug handling....the bugs that is, not the dog. I recently bought vials from bioquip and some mesh (chiffon 70/inch) to possibly make a different container for the dog training. In everyone's experience, are these containers adequate to keep the little guys inside? Do you try to grow your own colony or just try to get new bugs as yours expire? Is it difficult to separate out eggs, instars etc for training with out escapees? Does anyone use coffee filters instead of or in addition to mesh or screen for containment. How large of jars do you keep the critters in? Thanks for all help
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Posted 8 months ago
Thu Sep 13 2012 0:48:14
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Hi Jim!
Welcome to the site. I am not one, but I am sure you will get some responses from fellow k9 handlers shortly.
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Posted 8 months ago
Fri Sep 14 2012 23:52:54
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Hi newtrainerjm,
You have found a great site for a wealth of information. Are you an experienced dog trainer and branching into bed bug scent detection?
Bed bug wranglin' is our choice as we feed our colonies ourselves. Purchasing new stock adds to your costs and relying on field samples is too risky for us. We have heard of others using chiffon, or stockings as screening, but we prefer aquatic screening mesh (used to screen out plankton) - 300 microns; sufficient for scent to escape but not the bugs at any stage and allows for feeding (a little tough for 1st instars to feed at times if you don't ensure adequate pressure).
We also use polyfilm to seal the lids to the jars. Of course, the dog must be proofed off all of these materials as well as dead scent. So your wranglin' has to be continual. We keep a separate secure container to exhibit specimens to all that are interested - as you cannot proof your dog off of the scent they leave behind from handling the container.
Bug work is a lot of work on top of the scent training, obedience training, distraction training, exercising, grooming, etc. - you gotta love dogs and gotta be dedicated to be at the top of this profession. Ken
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newtrainerjm
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Posted 8 months ago
Thu Sep 20 2012 9:07:11
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Hi Ken
Thanks for all the info. I spoke to a university phd who told me they just use cloth to cover the bug jars, but I am not comfortable with that LOL! Thanks for the 300 micron info. I was concerned about the 1st instars (feeding and escape). I am an experienced dog trainer and was asked if I would train a bug dog for a client. Didnt want to pass it up, but definitely am concerned about the bugs. I would think growing them is relatively safe, but having to separate them into training vials safely concerns me.
On the scent source subject-do you train on all life stages together as 1 source or separate them out into eggs v instars v adults? I was given some adults collected from the field and managed to feed them. So I feel a little better about having the live for a few weeks yet!
Thanks again for you help -
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Posted 8 months ago
Thu Sep 20 2012 21:14:43
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We tend to mix the sexes and life stages up so there is always a variety in the vials, though have been considering trying an all egg vial for a bit. If you would like, send me a pm with an email address or email me through my website (click on my profile) and I can provide more details. Ken.
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Posted 6 months ago
Sun Oct 28 2012 23:47:33
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Question for the K9 handlers: could the pheromone from the Verifi elicit an alert? I have an inspection scheduled where a Verifi has been installed in the bedroom for several days.
From their website: "The replaceable Verifi lure features two additional attractants: a kairomone, to attract bed bugs seeking a meal, and a pheromone that encourages bed bugs to aggregate in the harborage area of the device. Consistent amounts of these attractants are continuously emitted for up to 90 days.
These attractants are segregated within the device to prevent confusion of the bed bugs. The CO2 and kairomone attract host-seeking bed bugs to the pitfall of the device, while the pheromone attracts aggregation-seeking bed bugs to the harborage area. This helps make Verifi one of the most effective and irresistable detectors on the market... Bed bugs fall into the pitfall and are unable to climb out, ensuring the pests can’t escape detection. Tiny holes at the bottom of the pitfall allow attractants to be emitted but prevent any small nymphs from slipping into the device. "As the pheromone is one variable from the mixture the dog is trained on, I imagine the answer is no. However, I would like to know if anyone has experience/testing on this angle. Your thoughts are much appreciated. Ken
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Posted 6 months ago
Mon Oct 29 2012 9:12:06
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Hi Ken, I was doing an inspection with a company that was installing a dozen or so Verifi units to test. With the kit comes a blue cap that is used to puncture the vial that contains the pheromone. We hid that cap to see if my canine would alert to it, the answer is no. I will say that the odor from the cap is strong from direct contact with contents. I did not go back and inspect the unit itself, to see if the canine would alert to odor wafting out of the unit.
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Posted 6 months ago
Mon Oct 29 2012 9:32:47
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Good to know. Thanks LVK9. Ken
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Sump-m-Bit-Me
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Posted 6 months ago
Sat Nov 3 2012 16:20:06
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Hi. I'm new to the forum and I read the original post, therefore, I think that the question that I want to ask should go in this thread.
But what I wanted to know is: Has anyone here ever heard of 3 bed bug dogs for verification in a person's home?
Now I've read about 2 bbds on this forum, and I looked up information about 2 bbds on the internet, but I can't find out any other information about 3 bbds other than the fact that the bed bug pest control company that my apartment complex uses, uses 3 bbds.
Thank you in advance for your participation.
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Posted 6 months ago
Sun Nov 4 2012 3:16:10
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The use of two additional K9 teams to verify a K9 alert is unnecessary and insufficient ... The correct protocol is to perform a manual search in the locations that are identified during the initial screening and visually confirm the presence of live bed bug activity.
I don't care if they use a dozen dog teams... Multiple K9 alerts are not equivalent to a visual identification... Many states and pesticide labels require a visual identification of the pest before any treatment is initiated.
The problem with the Rick Cooper two dog method is that the 2nd or 3rd K9s can simply follow the scent of the initial K9 team and alert in the same locations... Handler bias is also a problem, if the subsequent handlers are aware of the suspected locations.
A properly trained K9 team should lead us to evidence that can be discovered with a thorough visual search of the identified locations... Ask the inspection company to show you the physical evidence before you agree to pay for treatment... "Show me the bed bugs" is a reasonable request on the part of a consumer.
I am not aware of a single law enforcement or military organization in the world that relies on a 2nd or third dog team to verify the accuracy of a K9 alert in the same manner as the Cooper multiple dog approach.
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Posted 6 months ago
Thu Nov 8 2012 12:53:19
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Wow-- next we'll hear about bed bug canine juries of 12.
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Posted 6 months ago
Thu Nov 8 2012 12:53:29
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With alternates.
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Posted 6 months ago
Fri Nov 9 2012 6:11:47
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Nobugsonme - 17 hours ago »
Wow-- next we'll hear about bed bug canine juries of 12.It has been tried but they attempted to get the judge to rule the visual evidence as inadmissible so the case was thrown out, it appears "the nose knows" is not evidence enough for the courts.
You may have better luck with Judge Judy.
David
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Posted 6 months ago
Fri Nov 9 2012 6:13:25
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Hi,
Regarding Verify and K9 alerts, I do know one team who are reporting issues where the dogs are alerting to the devices.
You really need to test in situ to avoid any "too strong and odor" bias.
David
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Posted 6 months ago
Fri Nov 9 2012 11:15:15
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bed-bugscouk - 5 hours ago »
Regarding Verify and K9 alerts, I do know one team who are reporting issues where the dogs are alerting to the devices.
Oh dear.
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Sump-m-Bit-Me
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Posted 5 months ago
Fri Nov 23 2012 10:39:05
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DougSummersMS - 2 weeks ago »
The use of two additional K9 teams to verify a K9 alert is unnecessary and insufficient ... The correct protocol is to perform a manual search in the locations that are identified during the initial screening and visually confirm the presence of live bed bug activity.
I don't care if they use a dozen dog teams... Multiple K9 alerts are not equivalent to a visual identification... Many states and pesticide labels require a visual identification of the pest before any treatment is initiated.
The problem with the Rick Cooper two dog method is that the 2nd or 3rd K9s can simply follow the scent of the initial K9 team and alert in the same locations... Handler bias is also a problem, if the subsequent handlers are aware of the suspected locations.
A properly trained K9 team should lead us to evidence that can be discovered with a thorough visual search of the identified locations... Ask the inspection company to show you the physical evidence before you agree to pay for treatment... "Show me the bed bugs" is a reasonable request on the part of a consumer.
I am not aware of a single law enforcement or military organization in the world that relies on a 2nd or third dog team to verify the accuracy of a K9 alert in the same manner as the Cooper multiple dog approach.First of all, thank you all for your replies. Also, sorry about taking so long to respond back, but it's just that it's difficult to come to this forum and talk about one's bed bug problem and agony.
However, I have some good news! The office had the bed bug company come by again on Wednesday.........and she finally found evidence of bed bugs!!!!
I am so happy because it's been so long that I have had them, but they could never find the evidence that they needed for treatment.
Also, as far as the 3rd bed bug dog is concerned, I had mentioned to the PC rep about how I had wished that I would have let them bring the 3rd bbd into my apartment and how I was so frustrated that the 2nd dog's reaction and personality was so different from the 1st dog. But the PC rep told me that the purpose of the 3rd dog was for being a tie breaker.
However, even if I had of let them bring the 3rd dog in and it broke the tie, there still may have not been enough evidence for them to have found.
You see, I had started getting bit back in late April, and the PC inspectors had been in my apartment around 3 times and could never find any evidence. But then I think it was in September or October that they started using the dogs....and you know the rest of the story. However, at one point during all of this, I quit sleeping in my bed(where I was getting bit the most) and started sleeping on my sofa. Also, meanwhile, I had washed the blanket and the pillow case and pillow covering that I had been using, but only put on the pillow cover, which is white(and easier to see stains, etc. compared to my colored-design pillow case).
Well, the little buggers had found their way to my sofa....and of all the places that they were biting me, the were mostly biting me on the back of my head where it laid on the pillow....and where the inspector finally found the evidence.
But man, the thing about these bed bugs compared to the infestation that I had in 2008 is that these bbs have been some of the stealthiest and most out-of-sight and most hidden bed bugs that I have ever seen....or not seen.
Because back in 2008, they were all over the place. They were running around on the walls, on the floor, on the carpet....they were everywhere!
However, the behavior of the current bed bugs have been so different than the ones from 4 years that it just kind of blows me away. Also, after the inspector showed me the evidence on the pillow cover, I said something like, 'Those sneaky little b...', however, the inspector just said that they are survivors.
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Sump-m-Bit-Me
newbite
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Posted 5 months ago
Fri Nov 23 2012 10:46:47
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Nobugsonme - 2 weeks ago »
Wow-- next we'll hear about bed bug canine juries of 12.lol That's funny, Nobugs.
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junior member
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Posted 2 months ago
Sat Mar 9 2013 22:44:29
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FYI - WDDO is doing certification/re-certification March 22-23 in Temecula California.
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member
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Posted 2 months ago
Tue Mar 12 2013 9:45:50
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Canuck, are you going?
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junior member
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Posted 1 month ago
Fri Mar 29 2013 15:39:43
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LVK9,
A little late in replying - yes, we went, renewed my/Loola's certification and my wife also certified with Loola Loo. Thoroughly enjoyed the experience, talking/sharing with other K9 handlers and observing their dogs. Really enjoyed the bio-suit trials and I think I can say even Loola enjoyed working in the bio-suit and the dog party bar-b-que on Saturday. Gotta love California. Ken
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It is important to verify there is an infestation prior to treatment and using bed bug sniffing dogs is usually a great way to do so. Using the dogs as the investigators and going with a bed bugs head treatment is definitely the way to go- Eco-friendly and effective!! Wouldn't you agree??
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your host
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Posted 1 month ago
Thu Apr 4 2013 1:09:44
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BedBugFindersllc - 10 hours ago »
It is important to verify there is an infestation prior to treatment and using bed bug sniffing dogs is usually a great way to do so. Using the dogs as the investigators and going with a bed bugs head treatment is definitely the way to go- Eco-friendly and effective!! Wouldn't you agree??BedbugFindersllc,
I'm not sure what a "bed bugs head treatment" is but your post sounds kind of spammy to me (and believe me, I am an expert on detecting spam). It may disappoint you that you've posted in a thread where k9 industry professionals are discussing their work.
But since I always want to know this about k9 firms who post here, does your company visually verify every dog alert? And in the absence of visual evidence (bed bugs, eggs, cast skins, fecal stains), what do you tell consumers?
If you answer, I will consider not deleting your post and link.
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That was a typo "bed bugs head treatment" was meant to say "bed bugs heat treatment". My apologies but I do have to laugh because my little cousins called in a panic that day because they had a lice scare at their school so I must have still been thinking "head bugs" I calmed them down a bit by offering advice to wear their hair up and skip their everyday wash for we all know lice <3 (love) clean strands!
Anyway back to the real topic here- bed bugs. Well yes, all homes and businesses are inspected using IBBMA-certified dogs along side a trained inspectors that will carry out the appropriate protocol. Inspectors can read the dogs and from that gain an understanding of whether & where there are bed bugs. Other forms of confirmation are necessary- with the human eye only detecting 30% of these buggers, other forms of verification are used such as the dog or like you mentioned, "(bed bugs, eggs, cast skins, fecal stains)" At the end of the day- the house/business must prove to have bed bugs.
For those situations where there isn't evidence, it is important to stay persistent and keep looking. If they are there, they will be found. The last thing you want to do is treat a house for bed bugs that doesn't have that type of bug issue. The squeeky wheel gets the greese, right? Be persistent.
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your host
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Posted 1 month ago
Fri Apr 5 2013 18:54:40
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Bedbugfindersllc said,
"Well yes, all homes and businesses are inspected using IBBMA-certified dogs along side a trained inspectors that will carry out the appropriate protocol."
Thanks for your response, but I'm still not entirely clear if your teams will declare a home to have bed bugs without visual evidence (meaning the inspector finds cast skins, bed bugs, fecal stains or eggs).The reason I ask is because some bed bug canine scent detection firms do seem to think the "appropriate protocol" is that if their dog alerts, this is evidence. And many people, myself included, believe you need more than that.
The experience of forum users has proved this time and again. Lots of people here have had dogs alert incorrectly. One woman had 3-4 different teams come in and got different diagnoses from each.
Bedbugfindersllc said,
"Inspectors can read the dogs and from that gain an understanding of whether & where there are bed bugs. Other forms of confirmation are necessary- with the human eye only detecting 30% of these buggers,"
This is where I am getting confused. Are you saying your inspectors can verify whether and where bed bugs are present by just reading their dogs?Actually, bed bugs at all life stages are visible to the human eye. They're hard to find because of how they hide, but with a careful human inspection of the right location, a human can see them every time.
Bedbugfindersllc said,
"At the end of the day- the house/business must prove to have bed bugs. "
Yes, so I am just trying to ascertain what you consider proof.
We recommend consumers use canine scent detection firms who visually confirm every dog alert-- and don't suggest people get treatment without a visual confirmation of bed bugs, cast skins, fecal stains or eggs.
See our FAQ "Canine scent detection: what you need to know."
Bedbugfindersllc said,
"I calmed them down a bit by offering advice to wear their hair up and skip their everyday wash for we all know lice <3 (love) clean strands!"
Not an entomologist, but I hope you're joking. That's really not sufficient treatment as far as I have heard.
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oldtimer
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Posted 1 month ago
Sat Apr 6 2013 0:16:15
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Hi,
Also not an entomologist and have no kids but head lice are a little bit more complex to get rid of than "wearing your hair up and not washing it for a few days".
We actually have a specialist private head lice clinic in London where the treatment goes through a series of stages moving from one treatment room to the next almost like a production line. It starts with a lot of physical removal and chemicals are something of the last line of defense. Sounds like a good IPE program at the end of the day. You would like that someone based the service on what they may have seen or heard of from a bedbug specialist
I also cant find anything about visual confirmation as a standard on the IBBMA website and a few of the old chestnuts are there making me feel its not likley to match the standards suggested by the FAQ. That's not to say its not an opportunity to bring those standards up to date.
Although the 30% stat in itself is something of a joke to those of us who can reliably find a single bedbug in a room when called upon to do so.
David
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