NO BUGS: going to housing court, need some legal argu

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NO BUGS: going to housing court, need some legal argu

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buggedout2

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Posted 4 years ago
Thu May 29 2008 22:05:44
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No Bugs:

You have been a tremendous help to me while I fought my BB infestation last July. I am (knock on wood) so far, still BB free. Now I must fight in Houding Court to avoid eviction. I need your help again. I looked for tenant laws that apply in Westchester, NY (specifically Pelham) However all those laws and legal precedences apply in NYC only. Pelham prides itself on not having NYC laws apply here (except for normal Warranty of Habitability). Here is where I need your help to fight in court, knowing your are a PCO:

1. I am told if I just threw out my mattress, the problem would be solved (even by my own lawyer). Why is that not necessarily true?
2. We continue a year and a half battle with mice entering our apartment. The landlord has an exterminator come in once a month to spray for roaches (only the kitchen) and he gives me glue traps. I have done everything I can to block the mice's entry, including steel wool and netting. But the 8 foot long by 4 inch wide gap along the floor and cabinet, which still allows their entry needs a handyman to seal. IS IT POSSIBLE THE MICE COULD HAVE INTRODUCED THE BEDBUGS? I started to have problems with mice in January of 2007. I had BB's in July of 2007.
3. In an 8 unit building, could it be argued that the BB's traveled from another apartment to mine? If so, how would I go about proving it?

I would appreciate greatly any response you may have.

Best,

Buggedout2
bedbugvictimperthaustralia

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Posted 4 years ago
Fri May 30 2008 0:19:11
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Good luck. I hope you win.

> 1. I am told if I just threw out my mattress, the problem would be solved (even by
> my own lawyer). Why is that not necessarily true?
>
Because the mattress is only one place where they live. They also live in the head board, in cracks in the walls, inside power outlets, behind skirting boards, in the
crawl space between the walls. If you changed your mattress that population would
then be quickly replaced by the bedbugs from the other locations.

> IS IT POSSIBLE THE MICE COULD HAVE INTRODUCED THE BEDBUGS?
>
I have read somewhere that mice can help a bedbug population persist, but I'm not
sure they could move them from one location to the other. The mice breathe out
CO2 and are warm blooded, so the bed bugs are attracted to and feed on them. If
there's a population of mice, there's a food source for the bed bugs, and the
bed bugs could conceivably follow them and use them to re-infect...

> 3. In an 8 unit building, could it be argued that the BB's traveled from another
> apartment to mine? If so, how would I go about proving it?
>
You can't prove where they've come from, unless there is some pattern in which
apartments have the problem. ie: if just the apartments directly around you have
the problem, you're in the middle, and COULD be the source (but not necessarily).
On the other hand if there is a row of 5 apartments and you're on the end, it
could be anyone's fault. However it's hard to say because the bed bug movement
from apartment to apartment will depend on traffic (human/pet/rodent traffic) and
crawl space design.

If you're taking this to court, maybe you should bring along a reputable scientific
source of best practices material along with you, and show that the landlord hasn't
met that criteria. The best source I know is from the University of NSW here in
Australia. See http://medent.usyd.edu.au/bedbug/cop_ed2_completed.pdf

Good luck and let us know how you go.
KillerQueen

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Posted 4 years ago
Fri May 30 2008 1:05:05
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Go here and read .. http://www.bedbugcentral.com/bed_bugs_101.asp
DougSummersMS

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Posted 4 years ago
Fri May 30 2008 7:54:11
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BuggedOut2

There are numerous publications that state that bed bugs are found in many locations in addition to the mattress & bed frame.

The California Dept of Health Services has an instructional slide show on how to conduct an inspection for bed bugs.

Here is a link
http://www.dhs.ca.gov/ps/dcdc/disb/pdf/Bed%20bug%20presentation%209-2006.pdf

I have not found any references to mice introducing bed bugs in any publication. I guess it is possible that mice could serve as an alternative host. My only idea is that you would need to find an expert witness that is accepted in the local courts to make that claim.

You need some kind of evidence to try establish that the bed bugs migrated from from another unit in the building.I would think that if you could document another infestation in the building prior to the date that you discovered the problem it might be accepted as circumstantial evidence, but I don't know of a way to prove it directly. The burden of proof for proving the source of an infestation may be a very difficult obstacle to overcome for your hearing.

I am not familiar with the rules of evidence for an HPD hearing. I think you may want to consult an attorney that is familiar with the rules for guidance on how to establish the facts in your case.

Please let us know about the outcome of your hearing.
angie

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Posted 4 years ago
Fri May 30 2008 15:00:47
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I can only comment on the bed issue...We threw out all our beds in the beginning of our infestation in July of '07 and when we moved out in Febr.'08, they were still crawling on the walls and ceiling. Just because they are called bedbugs, does not necessarily mean they only live in the beds. Tell your attorney to check out the pix on Flickr and to come here and read some of the stuff we talk about. Probably the front page and not the forums. Our bugs lived in the baseboards and in the textured ceiling. In the closets and under the carpet. I wish they only lived in beds, would have made my life alot easier!! Keep up the fight, it is worth it in the end!!
Nobugsonme

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Posted 4 years ago
Thu Jun 5 2008 19:14:33
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Hi buggedout,

Just to clarify, I am NOT a PCO. I am just a run of the mill ordinary person who encountered bed bugs.

To respond to your questions:

1. I am told if I just threw out my mattress, the problem would be solved (even by my own lawyer). Why is that not necessarily true?

*No: bed bugs don't just live in mattresses. See http://bedbugger.com/links for many fact sheets from reputable bodies which will back this up. For example, the Australian and California Guidelines, and fact sheets from universities. Those are going to be your best bet in backing up your argument.

2. We continue a year and a half battle with mice entering our apartment. The landlord has an exterminator come in once a month to spray for roaches (only the kitchen) and he gives me glue traps. I have done everything I can to block the mice's entry, including steel wool and netting. But the 8 foot long by 4 inch wide gap along the floor and cabinet, which still allows their entry needs a handyman to seal. IS IT POSSIBLE THE MICE COULD HAVE INTRODUCED THE BEDBUGS? I started to have problems with mice in January of 2007. I had BB's in July of 2007.

*I would ask PCOs about this. I have heard that mice or rats may leave behind a bed bug problem, but I don't have any documentation on that.

3. In an 8 unit building, could it be argued that the BB's traveled from another apartment to mine? If so, how would I go about proving it?

*Again, as per #1, that this CAN happen is well known. See the resources linked to above for proof that it happens. Now, you can't probably prove it happened in your case. However, if you knew someone in the building had bed bugs for longer than you, that might be something to work with.