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New Treatment for Bed Bugs - Freeze Them Dead

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  1. Nancy99

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Tue Dec 18 2007 9:50:10
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    Editor's note: duplicate message deleted. See identical comment here from Nancy99:
    http://bedbugger.com/2007/12/16/bed-bugs-and-children-insurance-reality-show/#comment-8045

  2. Winston O. Buggy

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Tue Dec 18 2007 10:33:07
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    Thanks for the infomercial Nancy member since today. As you stated Cryonite
    has been in use for a while across the pond and elsewhere with varying results. While it is certainly a tool in the bed bug battle especially in sensitive areas; as you state yourself and per manufacturers recommendations it is not a stand alone program and requires the application of what did you call it "biochemical" treatments. With this material which I have had the opportunity to use care must be taken with plastics.

  3. DougSummersMS

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Tue Dec 18 2007 10:43:05
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    I had a conversation with a well known PCO about this method. He told me about a demonstration in Europe that he witnessed where the method failed in a serious way with most of the frozen bed bugs coming back to life after they thawed. I would be extremely skeptical about the use of carbon dioxide for exterminating bed bugs.

  4. Winston O. Buggy

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Tue Dec 18 2007 10:53:13
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    For those hit on a contact basis it has high mortality for peripheral targets
    yeah that dazed sub lethal pyre thrum born again syndrome can be a factor.
    It's quicker than steaming though. Again a tool not an answer.

  5. Anonymous

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Tue Dec 18 2007 11:05:25
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    Oh dear.

    I must confess that I have been intrigued by this forever.

    We've actually known about this for some time: The iceman cometh.

    It appeared by what we could parse from news reports to be used principally in institutional settings and not alone but in combination with pesticides.

    In that sense, I'm glad that it's now available for residential/consumer accounts and not just from Terminix anymore.

    However, beyond the unfortunate fact of Nancy's attempt at marketing, for no pest control professional would come here to tell us of a "final answer" to our difficult problem, we also finally have an actual study to peruse: http://www.sternenvironmental.com/pdfs/Bedbug-Report.pdf

    Conducted by Dr. Graham Small of Insect Investigations Ltd., it's an interesting read. Of note: follow-up inspections were done 1 day and 1 week after treatment.

    Success declared so soon? How so?

    Please elaborate, Nancy.

    But, as should be plain, we want no condescension and no market-speak. In fact, can you ask a PCO at Stern to come continue this conversation instead? That might be best.

  6. nyjammin

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Tue Dec 18 2007 11:12:05
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    What about cost? Does this "up" the cost of extermination by using this as well as pesticides?

  7. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Tue Dec 18 2007 13:45:21
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    Darnit, I already started responding on the blog, having seen Nancy's duplicate post there.

    http://bedbugger.com/2007/12/16/bed-bugs-and-children-insurance-reality-show/#comment-8045

    I started and run the site but am "not an expert."
  8. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Tue Dec 18 2007 13:54:25
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    It appears the "solution" to "our difficult problem" was received similarly on different areas of the site.

    In the European efficacy study Hopelessnomo points to (which I also linked to in my blog comment), DE was used along with Cryonite. I did not see anything on Stern's site on using anything with the Cryonite, though perhaps I missed it.

  9. Douglas Stern

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Tue Dec 18 2007 16:31:33
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    I’m responding to comments posted today regarding the original post Cryonite by Nancy99. I am the Managing Partner of Stern Environmental Group, LLC.

    It is my intention to use Cryonite in addition to other means to control bed bugs. End users would have the choice of using Cryonite with Diatomaceous Earth, which I would consider a minimum-risk product, EPA exempt botanical, or residual spray labeled for bed bugs. With Cryonite plus Diatomaceous Earth we are getting excellent results and long term kill results.

    Yes, there is an additional cost associated with using Cryonite over traditional insecticides. However, the benefit is greatly offset particularly for the lodging industry, by allowing hotel/motels to return rooms back to service right away after the first treatment. This can be done because Cryonite kills all stages of bed bugs immediately on contact. For residences, using Cryonite on mattresses and box springs provides a non-toxic treatment when typical treatments may cause health concerns. In residences due to the amount of clutter, typically in the environment, and the increased number of hiding places for these pests, we are still recommending the use of insecticides in closets and areas away from bedding. This is an exciting new treatment program and one of the first that solves the issue of a growing resistance of bed bugs to the chemicals that we have been using to kill them with which is a growing concern in my industry.

    The Cryonite gun we use is the latest version. It has been modified to improve the particle size for better kill efficacy. There may have been issues with efficiency with the old gun, but once you see the new gun in action you will understand that bugs just can’t hide from the vapor saturation that is created. Particle size of the snow stream has been enhanced to allow the snow to stick to the pests longer for a more efficient kill.

    Cryonite is not the end all for bed bug control, however, it is a new tool to help resolve bed bug issues when resistance, speed of kill, health considerations, and the aspect of being “green” are important.

    Anyone who has questions or comments can view my website http://www.SternEnvironmental.com for more information.

  10. nyjammin

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Tue Dec 18 2007 17:47:47
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    Since you treat mattresses, then I would assume that the mattress encasements need to be removed, no? Also, can the cryonite go all the way through the mattress and boxspring because they are thick. If mattresses can be done, what about dressers and sofas, upholstered chairs?

  11. Anonymous

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Tue Dec 18 2007 19:34:12
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    Thanks for the comment, Douglas.

    Bring on the new technologies.

    Many people can't use pesticides for health reasons. If this can be added to steam and DE and vacuuming--where heat and ozone and such non-pesticide solutions are not available or feasible--it's one more option.

    And, again, it's good to see this made available to more people.

    What I suspect, though, is that more than one treatment is likely necessary. Will all the eggs always be deposited and all the harborage sites be located in places that the cryonite can reach? And the skill of the technician must always be a factor.

    I hope we start to hear real-world accounts of how this works out.

    (I also hope you return to answer questions. We're allergic to marketers but appreciate the input of professionals.)

  12. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Tue Dec 18 2007 21:25:11
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    Hi Douglas,

    I too welcome your comments and hope you will come again. Many professionals do participate here, and we are always interested in hearing what PCOs are using.

  13. Winston O. Buggy

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Tue Dec 18 2007 22:19:36
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    It was a question of tactics and not the goal.
    I think the solution to bed bug control will employ multiple methods
    some of which have yet to be put to use. Cryonite is one of many methods
    and is a work in progress as all other modern methods are. I just hope some
    people won't try and synthesize this at home.

  14. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Wed Dec 19 2007 7:05:44
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    Hi,

    I look at this system when it was about to become available in the UK. I understand the theory but have two comments about it in practice:

    They used it on a TV program in the UK, filmed 1 application out of the 6 that were done before the person became a client of ours (2 treatments later they have no problem).

    I know people who have collected the "dead" samples only to find that 17 of the 20 came back to life a few hours later.

    Its a great idea but think the current system lacks something in the delivery. The only problem is that in order to get it to work I concluded you would need to change the cold source to something that although environmentally inert has a higher HazMat rating that liquid carbon dioxide.

    I am not saying that in certain settings it does not provide a workable solution but for my time and money there are better methods.

    David

    In accordance with the AUP and FTC (legal requirements) I openly disclose my vested interest in Passive Monitors as the inventor and patent holder. Since 2009 they have become an integral part in how we resolve bedbug infestations in domestic and commercial settings. The patent numbers are GB2463953 and GB2470307.

    "Open minds find faster solutions"

    "Astral Entomologist - because so many people say my ideas are out of this world"
  15. Nancy99

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Wed Dec 19 2007 7:44:50
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    We are trying to get videos of Cryonite used in action and will let you know if we can post them on the Stern website (see above). This will help readers to understand how Cryonite can be used and its effectiveness on killing bed bugs and other pests.

    In the meantime, Mr. Stern of Stern Environmental has asked me to point you to his email at info@sternenvironmental.com if you have any specific questions about your personal situations.

    Oh by the way, yes, Cryonite can be used to treat furniture as it leaves no residue. When treating furniture, typically cryonite is sprayed in seams and inside the underside skirting. In environments, it is extremely effective in penetrating cracks between carpet and walls, behind headboards installed on walls where bed bugs like to hide.

    When treating mattresses, it is typically sprayed on all seams, one would not open up a mattress encasement to prevent any pest escape. Box Springs are treated by opening the underside dust cover.

    The video shows all of this and we hope to be able to post that on the website.

    Hope this helps. If you have other questions, leave them here and I will pass them to Mr. Stern for his response as needed.

  16. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Wed Dec 19 2007 12:23:08
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    Nancy, your business URL is linked from your name so there is simply no need to put it in every post, so I deleted it above.

    David said, "I know people who have collected the "dead" samples only to find that 17 of the 20 came back to life a few hours later."

    This doesn't surprise me, David. Lou Sorkin tells us he froze bed bugs at -29 for 4 hours and they lived. He also told us another time about seeing bed bugs that appeared to be dead, revive after being removed from the freezer.

  17. lieutenantdan

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Wed Dec 19 2007 12:35:22
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    I viewed a video that is meant for pest professionaleyes only last year where two top guys from Bayer claimed that they were witness to a government barracks in some place cold like Alaska or the North Pole which had a bb problem and the barracks was evacuated for the winter months due to the freezing temps and that when the people came back the following spring the bbs were alive and well and have multiplied so the freeze did not kill the majority. Has anyone else viewed this video?

  18. Nancy99

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Thu Dec 20 2007 10:26:13
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    Mr. Stern just phoned me and asked me to add this post for him. It is not the freezing that kills bed bugs with Cryonite, it is the RAPID freezing that kills them; causing the fluid in the cells to freeze and causing death.

    I am just getting ready to post the new reports that you can review on our site. I will be installing them on this page[http://www.sternenvironmental.com/cryonite/index.php]. You will be able to find them on the site by about 10:45 Eastern time on 12-20-07. Should be interesting reading.

    The bottom line is that if you put bed bugs in the freezer they won't die, but you need to freeze them rapidly and to a very low temperature which you can not simply reproduce at home with an appliance but that the Cryonite system will do effectively killing them.

  19. Nobugsonme

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Thu Dec 20 2007 11:12:29
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    I appreciate that speed plays into it. We have heard rapid temperature changes are more effective. Thermal treatments rely on this too.

  20. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 6 years ago
    Thu Dec 20 2007 12:51:45
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    Hi Nancy99,

    Thanks for the repeated updates. I wonder if you could possibly answer a few questions for us. They are all based on a quick read through your web site:

    You say "....has been used extensively in Europe and Australia .... " could you please provide details of who these people are? I am not currently aware of anyone in London who uses the system.

    You also said in your post ".... The bottom line is that if you put bed bugs in the freezer they won't die ....". What time length did you test. I ask because I have tested this on different time lines and sure enough with enough cold exposure they do die.

    I am also interested to hear what safety precautions you are putting in place. As some readers hear know I used to be a molecular biologist and worked extensively with super cooled liquids as part of my research. Following a rather nasty and unfortunate accident involving liquid CO2 and N2 there is now strict UK guidelines for using these products in enclosed spaces, do you leave detection systems in place to ensure that people do not suffocate.

    I don't wish to scoff at what you are doing but its a case that we have already had this product launched in the UK and yes they did come and see me as a well known Bed Bug specialist, I did however have to decline the offer of a system on the grounds that efficiency was lower than what we already do.

    I have since heard from numerous companies that they tried and are no longer using the system.

    I appreciate that you have received some impressive looking research papers on the subject but would suggest that you supplement that with a little personal experience and results.

    Regards,

    David Cain


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