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NEW MONITOR AVAILABLE - INDEPENDENTLY TESTED BY RICHARD NAYLOR

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  1. Ombugsman

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    Posted 3 months ago
    Sat Apr 8 2017 5:35:39
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    You may recall a while ago I posted a link to the results of Richard Naylor's tests of PCO/inventor Leon Wieler's modified glue trap. It caught 80% of the bugs in Naylor's test (8:1 versus ClimbUp in test). Now that same inventor has created a passive cardboard monitor which Naylor tested against David Cain's monitor. Here's a quote from Richard:

    I ran the BB passive (BB Alert) in a parallel trial to see how it compared to your monitor. Each time I checked the monitor there were between 2 and 4 bugs in there (compared to 20 or so in yours) so the difference was considerable………. It seems to me that your monitor will easily beat anything I have previously tested. As well as being more attractive to bugs, it is considerably easier to check than any other designs based on corrugated card.

    I used something similar to Leon's modified glue trap to catch bed bugs when I had my infestation and have corresponded with him since then over the past 3 years on a number of subjects including his new cardboard monitor. He's the real deal. I'll write a bit more on him later but for now here's the link which will provide more detail on his cardboard monitor:

    http://www.winnipegbedbugheating.com/collectabed-mini/

  2. Richard56

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    Posted 3 months ago
    Sat Apr 8 2017 11:00:37
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    Thanks for the great info.

    Could you elaborate a little on the difference between Leon's modified glue trap and the newer cardboard monitor in terms of use and efficacy, as well as the differences between the "collectable mini" and the "collectable proper" referred to in the link provided. Also, do you know which one tested successfully against the BB Passive, and a link to the test data if available.

    Leon also mentions that these units are for sale and that he is providing free plans for those that want to do it themselves. Do you have a link to where they are being sold and/or how to make them yourself.

    Thanks for any help.

    Richard

  3. Richard56

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    Posted 3 months ago
    Sat Apr 8 2017 16:48:23
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    Hi Ombugsman,

    I was able to answer most of my questions by hunting around Leon's web site per the link you provided, but thanks again for the post. Interesting stuff.

    Richard

  4. Ombugsman

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    Posted 3 months ago
    Sun Apr 9 2017 9:54:51
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    Hi Richard,

    Even though you've found the answer to some of those questions, I'll respond to what I know for other readers. If anyone's got other questions, post them here and I'll send an email to Leon to get the answers (much more efficient than everyone sending him emails asking the same thing). BTW I hate ALL CAPS but I figured it was worth it for the title given the potential of this product for both treatment and ongoing prevention/control.

    (1) The cardboard monitor he's offering is not intended to trap or kill bed bugs. It works much like David's monitor in that respect. It's a single-faced cardboard and perhaps its nicest feature is the top cover opens like a book cover to check for bed bugs. You could place it between the mattress and box spring (or mattress and frame if no box spring) but also use double-sided tape to attach it to headboard or other locations. The name Collectabed's a bit misleading since you may place the monitor anywhere: couch, recliner, floor, etc.. The complete Collectabed has been his primary focus for a while now. He didn't initially intend to test or sell a cardboard monitor independent of the bed. But during the test of the Collectabed by Naylor, they ended up also testing the cardboard monitor separately.

    (2) Leon's got a few versions of the modified glue trap depending on the surface (i.e., carpet vs hardwood vs tile). They are designed to be placed under bed/couch/chair legs. He typically deals with large infestations in low-income housing. His protocol is to heat treat beds/couches/furniture/toys etc in a trailer, isolate those items, and then use chemical pesticides/dust to pick up bugs elsewhere. Over time he found bed bugs were becoming more and more resistant to chemicals and he mentioned Canada has got tighter restrictions on available pesticides than US. So he began to focus on designing more effective glue traps to kill bed bugs that were not in the heat-treated items.

    He's had great success using them to where chemicals are often not needed. Having done something similar using glue traps and caught bed bugs, I'd warn people they're very tricky to get right. My recommendation in the US would be if your bed sits on a carpet, isolate bed using mineral oil and place Cimexa on carpet around the bed legs and under the beg. If you've got a tile/wooden floor, I'd either buy carpet tiles or place mineral oil moats on top of CimeXa treated cardboard. One peer-reviewed study found that all bugs died which walked a single time over a 2.5cm wide strip of CimeXa-treated cardboard.

    (3) I believe there's a report for the Collectabed test but I don't think there's one for the separate monitor-only test which involved the BB Alert monitor. I think David Cain and Richard Naylor are friends so David may be able to obtain any additional data by contacting Richard directly.

    (4) I think the plan is to eventually do a youtube video on the monitor which might include how to make it on your own. I'm not sure what he's planning in the meantime but I'll ask. I think the product's gonna be so inexpensive that almost everybody will just end up buying a bunch of them. Also bed bugs are very finicky - change one thing and results change. I'd rather use the exact cardboard and product he had tested and uses in the field.

    (5) A few days ago I sent him a list of US resellers who specialize in bed bugs whom he might want to contact. Until then, I believe he will sell them directly to people although my guess is he'd want you to buy at least 5 of them which makes sense anyway. He's already got a couple of people who make the monitors and he's sold them directly in bulk to a few landlords and PCOs in the Vancouver area. I'm sure the monitors will be reasonably priced. Leon's not doing this for fame or profit (not that there's anything wrong with fame or profit). He's a devout Christian who actually follows the example of Jesus. You'll find a blog post of his on his site where he talks about bed bug scammers. He owns a low-income apartment block and became his own exterminator when his residents had major bed bug problems. He became very intrigued by the challenge of bed bugs and now offers his extermination services to others, typically large infestations.

    ******************************************************************************

    So I will follow-up on direct purchases. But if anyone's got other questions, post them here or PM me and I'll include them in the email if I don't know the answer.
    Quote

  5. Livingagain

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    Posted 3 months ago
    Sun Apr 9 2017 15:41:58
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    Did you use the modified glue trap at the same time you were using Cimexa? Because it seems like they would not work if used at the same time-- properties of Cimexa might counteract the glue traps and vice versa.

    I still don't see anywhere to buy the Collect a bed or the mini thing. I guess you're saying that has to wait until he gets them to a retailer?

  6. bugged-cdn

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    Posted 3 months ago
    Sun Apr 9 2017 16:19:04
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    He discusses concurrent use of Cimexa in this blog post.

  7. Livingagain

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    Posted 3 months ago
    Sun Apr 9 2017 22:11:00
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    Thanks

  8. Ombugsman

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    Posted 3 months ago
    Mon Apr 10 2017 9:59:29
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    Did you use the modified glue trap at the same time you were using Cimexa? Because it seems like they would not work if used at the same time-- properties of Cimexa might counteract the glue traps and vice versa.

    Are you asking about my individual situation when I treated my infestation or are you asking about Leon's approach? From your response to bugged-cdn, it looks like the latter. But if not I'd be happy to describe in detail my use of CimeXa/modified trap 3 years ago and why I would follow a different approach today even though the modified trap caught a lot of bed bugs.

    Leon also mentions that these units are for sale and that he is providing free plans for those that want to do it themselves.

    I just received an email response from Leon and he said he does plan to create some youtube videos on how to make his cardboard monitor and modified glue traps but he didn't give a timeframe.

    I still don't see anywhere to buy the Collect a bed or the mini thing. I guess you're saying that has to wait until he gets them to a retailer?

    He mentioned he's just starting to explore distribution alternatives and that marketing and sales is not his forte. I've suggested he start by contacting usbedbugs and bedbugsupply. Richard Naylor's imprimatur plus a youtube video should be all he really needs to do on his end. The real issue would be the pricing. Leon's selling them now for less than $2 USD per monitor in quantity of 100. The final reseller price, presuming S&H were charged separate, would be mostly the profit the reseller tacks on. Leon might not want to use a reseller if they price it too high.

    I'll throw out another alternative. In Canada, he's started to sell his monitor through his chemical supplier who is also an exterminator. Maybe a PCO like Jim Danca or BigDummy would be interested in distributing the product here in the US. I know Jim's got somewhat of an infrastructure because he sells his glue trap through his website. The issue then would be making people aware of the product. Richard Naylor is a very respected figure in the field; David Cain has cited his work a few times on bedbugger.com. In fact, Richard used to post on this site many years ago. If the reseller were willing to give NoBugs more than those other sites for each unit sold to help maintain bedbugger.com, perhaps she'd be willing to help out in terms of advertising. If any PCO is interested, I'd suggest contacting Leon through his website.

    ****************************************************************************************************************************
    Just one other thing which I never hear discussed when using monitors. Someone notices marks on skin, fears it might be bed bugs. They set-up Leon's or David's monitor and manage to catch what looks like a bed bug. The next step is to positively ID it, preferably through an independent website. Next........victims should hold on to that bed bug(s). If they're planning to hire a PCO who uses chemicals, they'll want to know in advance if chemicals the PCO proposes to use will work or if bugs in their residence have built-up any resistance. Before they hire a PCO, they should consider requesting the PCO place a bit of their chemical pesticide into some container per the label rate. The bed bug victim should then put the bug in the container - if it's not dead in a couple of days, .......

  9. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 3 months ago
    Tue Apr 11 2017 6:24:35
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    Hi,

    TBDR:

    The BB Alert Passive stock has not been available for about two years now and there have been minor design changes to the PackTite manufactured product so any testing that claims to be recent and claims to have used the original brand is not testing like for like in terms of current versions nor following the manufacturers guidelines in terms of product life.

    Its sad really because this sort of investment in time could be put to so much better use and the time distraction it takes is hardly fair on those who need help in a way that we can provide.

    David Cain
    Bed Bugs Limited

    If you have found this information helpful please consider leaving feedback on social media via google+ or FaceBook or by like/loving the images.

    In accordance with the AUP and FTC (legal requirements) I openly disclose my vested interest in Passive Monitors as the inventor and patent holder. Since 2009 they have become an integral part in how we resolve bed bug infestations. I also have a professional relationship with PackTite in that they distribute my product under their own branding. I do not however receive any financial remuneration for any comments I make about products.
  10. KillerQueen

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    Posted 3 months ago
    Mon Apr 17 2017 7:30:58
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    knowledge is power

  11. Livingagain

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    Posted 3 months ago
    Mon Apr 17 2017 9:38:53
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    I'd love to hear detail of your use of Cimexa and a modified glue trap and details of what you would do different if it isn't already on the site somewhere. Should it be a different thread?

  12. idealist

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    Posted 3 months ago
    Tue Apr 18 2017 16:59:23
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    Where can you buy the collectabed?

  13. Ombugsman

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    Posted 2 months ago
    Tue May 16 2017 16:25:33
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    UPDATE ON AVAILABILITY: A poster named Shari asked about availability a few days ago and I promised a response about now. There's still a couple of items to be ironed out but I am able to give you some info. Wieler will sell the monitors directly to US customers until his US reseller is operational. The minimum quantity will be 4 monitors and payment will be only through paypal. The total cost for 4 monitors including paypal fees and 7 business day shipping will probably be about $35 USD (a less expensive, longer delivery time option will also be available). Shipping cost remains the same through 8 monitors and the total cost of 8 monitors will probably be about $50. Leon also plans to post a DIY "build-your-own" video in the next couple of months. I hope to give y'all the OK to order some time next week and provide greater detail at that time once those minor items are settled.

    In the meantime, here's a brief summary of Leon Wieler and his inventions for those who are new to bedbugger. Leon is a Vancouver inner city landlord who decided to do his own bed bug extermination. He built a heating trailer in 2007 making him one of the first persons in North America to have applied heating in a contained unit to kill bed bugs. He now offers his extermination services to others who are dealing with large infestations. He's performed quite a few interesting experiments which you'll find when you read through his blog on his website. But his most interesting work is probably his inventions. Some of them are:

    (1) An entire bed targeted primarily at low income housing.
    (2) A plastic interceptor which, in an independent test, caught 8 times as many bugs as the popular ClimbUp interceptor.
    (3) A variety of glue traps one of which caught 24 of 30 bugs in an independent test.
    (4) A cardboard monitor in which 60-75% of the bugs in the bed harbored in a 1 week period (5 to 10 times the # for the BBAlert competitor).

    You may be wondering why Leon doesn't post directly on bedbugger and why I am involved. I will answer those and other questions in a separate post when I give the green light to order.

  14. BigDummy

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    Posted 2 months ago
    Tue May 16 2017 18:02:09
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    Care to donate a few in my direction, por favor?

    What whispers the whisker?
  15. Ombugsman

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    Posted 2 months ago
    Tue May 16 2017 18:45:11
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    ughh Leon is located in Winnipeg not Vancouver just like in his url winnipegbedbugheating.com. I've been dealing with a completely different situation the last 2 weeks involving Vancouver and the wires got switched. I'll take this opportunity to add his specialty is inner city multi-family which has unique tenant compliance issues and often involves large infestations. His business is not limited to just large infestations.

    Care to donate a few in my direction, por favor?

    heh they'd go right on the shelf next to your bedbugdots. You wouldn't be happy BD - there's no happy smiling family on the box like bedbugdots. Heck, I'm not even sure there'll be a box.

  16. BigDummy

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    Posted 2 months ago
    Tue May 16 2017 21:56:42
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    Who better to try them out?

  17. Richard56

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    Posted 2 months ago
    Tue May 16 2017 22:15:05
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    Do you have a link to a video or pictures of the full size Collectabed?

  18. ambushed9

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    Posted 2 months ago
    Thu May 18 2017 22:33:45
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    Yippee!
    I'm in for 8 as soon as you give the word. Thanks a million

    Shari

  19. Ombugsman

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    Posted 1 month ago
    Tue May 30 2017 8:42:08
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    Hi Folks - I know I promised the "green light" to order last week but some pricing information (needed to set the final price) we expected early last week never arrived. We're working to obtain that info but I'm not gonna make any more promises as to timetables. I am able to tell you that the name of the monitor will be Collectabug. If Leon, however, ever makes a presentation at an entomologist conference, he reserves the right to call it Collect-A-Lectularius. I'll be making a series of posts this week which detail how Collectabug works and provide a link to its user guide. I'll also explain (primarily for the benefit of regulars) my role in all of this. For now, there are a few items from earlier in this thread which I failed to address so I'll do that here but there's one more thing. We've already conducted a test of the ordering process with one member. We'd like to conduct another test to make sure everything is crystal clear for potential buyers. If anyone is desperate to receive the monitors, PM me and I will tell you exactly what needs to be done. Do NOT contact Leon directly.

    ************************************************************************************************************************

    The BB Alert Passive stock has not been available for about two years now and there have been minor design changes to the PackTite manufactured product so any testing that claims to be recent and claims to have used the original brand is not testing like for like in terms of current versions nor following the manufacturers guidelines in terms of product life.

    I replied to this in other threads. Since this is the main thread for Leon Wieler's monitor and many will not see those other threads, I will address it here as well. First, Richard Naylor's test was conducted in June 2015. Second, there is no expiration date on the product or on the box and bedbugsupply told me there is no expiration date for BB Alert so long as it remains in the box. Third, bedbugsupply is still selling BB Alert. Finally, David has never responded to what those "minor design changes" are and why they might have changed the test results.

    There will be plenty of time to compare Leon's monitor to David's. I would ask everyone to hold off asking questions and commenting until the detailed description of Collectabug has been presented in this thread.

    Do you have a link to a video or pictures of the full size Collectabed?

    There is an incredible amount of detail in the patent application if anyone is interested. Some photos of bed components will also be posted in a few days. I would ask that further questions and comments regarding the Collectabed be directed to a different thread. I'd like the focus here to be the monitor only or the discussion will become confusing to a lot of people. The complete bed is Leon's pride and joy, much more so than the heating trailer he built in his backyard in 2007 or any of the many different types of monitors/traps he's invented which have upset the conventional wisdom and blown away the competition in Naylor's tests. I know people will be interested in how the bed works (just like they were for the Good Knight bed). There will probably be some discussion of the bed on bedbugger but for now I ask to keep the focus in this thread on the product many people here will probably end up buying.

    I'd love to hear detail of your use of CimeXa and a modified glue trap and details of what you would do different if it isn't already on the site somewhere. Should it be a different thread?

    Yeah it probably should but I'll respond here since I did invite you to ask. Since my response will be a bit long-winded, I'll create a separate post. BTW Leon will be posting some "how to build" videos for his modified glue traps. His priority at the moment, however, is the creation of Collectabug-related videos. So again I ask you to hold questions on his glue traps until then. He does already have some videos on youtube which cover the principles of those traps.

  20. Ombugsman

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    Posted 1 month ago
    Tue May 30 2017 8:52:50
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    I'd love to hear detail of your use of Cimexa and a modified glue trap and details of what you would do different

    (continued) I had a moderate multi-room infestation. I have a hardwood floor in my bedroom. When I had my infestation 3 years ago, I used ClimbUps and standard glue traps for the first few days; I may have caught a nymph in one of the ClimbUps but that was it. In the first week, I treated and isolated the bed and voraciously read everything I could find and happened on Leon's blog. I made some changes to the glue traps and the next day 3 bed bugs were in the traps. The traps continued to catch bugs over the next couple of weeks. The CimeXa arrived on about Day 7 and I made a ring around the bed. I used only CimeXa to treat other rooms.

    So why wouldn't I use the glue traps and CimeXa again in that configuration? I treated my infestation before the landmark Potter field test results were published. Now we know a lot more about CimeXa from that and other studies. The area under the bed legs and under the bed is to bed bug treatment as Boardwalk and Park Place are to the game of Monopoly, which is to say, they're prime real estate. We know any bed bugs in the bed room eventually will emerge to try to get to you in bed. It's important to kill them when they're puttering around the bed legs and wandering under the bed seeking access to you. CimeXa is the only product at the moment which combines the safety and a high kill rate after BB brief exposure to make this happen. If you put it under the bed legs and under the bed, the BBs will be exposed to it waaay longer than the brief exposure in that peer-reviewed test which resulted in 100% kill. That means your chances for a 100% kill are excellent. Leon's trap catches a very high % (80% in test) but that's not 100%.

    A key question is the substrate or material to place the CimeXa on. I'd probably use carpet tiles or brushed burlap under the bed legs. They would minimize dust floating into the air. My bed has only 5 legs so I would place them under all 4 corners. If it had 3 or more legs on each side, I would only place them under the corner ones. Regarding the area under the bed, I'd probably dust CimeXa onto some cardboard and place it there. That peer-reviewed study demonstrated all the bugs died walking a single time across a 2.5cm wide strip of CimeXa-treated cardboard. If the dust floats up, most will adhere to bottom of box spring and frame which wouldn't be a bad thing because any bugs crawling there would walk through the CimeXa.

    Once I've treated the bed and isolated it, I don't want bed bugs to be able to get onto the bed. I would use mineral oil moats sitting on top of the carpet tiles or brushed burlap. You could use water but that requires maintenance since it evaporates rather rapidly. I would also use Leon's Collectabug monitors in the bed to try to pick up any bugs I missed in treating the bed or any bugs that somehow gain access to bed after it's been isolated.

    You may wondering if it's possible to place Leon's glue trap on top of the carpet tile/burlap/cardboard. The answer is no - the glue traps won't work in that configuration because they require a very smooth surface in front of them. Leon does have a version for carpet but he notes that glue traps on carpet are more problematic in terms of catching bugs than ones on tile or hardwood. You could place a ClimbUp on the carpet tile but that requires maintenance and some bugs are able to make it past the ClimbUps.

    There are two important conclusions from that protocol which may not be so obvious:
    (1) You need not fear bugs dispersing to other rooms because they will have walked through the CimeXa several times and will almost certainly die. That is why you lose nothing by isolating the bed. You're able to sleep in peace and kill the bed bugs at the same time.

    (2) You really don't need to treat anywhere else in the bedroom outside of the bed. All you have to do is inspect clothes you plan to wear and/or place them in a dryer. You needn't declutter, pay $300 to dry clean all your winter clothes in the closet, place items in heating units and so forth. If you want to be aggressive that's fine; just be sure you don't disturb or repel the bugs to where they exit the bed room before they have a chance to approach the bed. If I were doing it again, I wouldn't treat nightstand, dresser, TV/DVD, closet, lamp. I would, however, treat curtains since bugs are more visible there and could be picked up with vacuum. I'd also dust the baseboards.

    ********************************************************************************************************************

    Again, if anyone wants to discuss this further, I ask that you start a new thread, copy this to that thread and then ask a question or make a comment there. Thanks.

  21. Richard56

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    Tue May 30 2017 12:44:46
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    Hi Ombuds,

    Thanks for your detailed posts on what appears to be some exciting new and relatively inexpensive additions to fighting bed bugs.

    I want to call out one portion of your last post for emphasis, because if the homeowner has a little patience, the trade off is not only saving money but not having to turn your life upside down with unnecessary prep work, except I imagine is a very heavy infestation, but even then the bugs eventually will need to come out and have a meal.

    "...You really don't need to treat anywhere else in the bedroom outside of the bed. All you have to do is inspect clothes you plan to wear and/or place them in a dryer. You needn't declutter, pay $300 to dry clean all your winter clothes in the closet, place items in heating units and so forth. If you want to be aggressive that's fine; just be sure you don't disturb or repel the bugs to where they exit the bed room before they have a chance to approach the bed. If I were doing it again, I wouldn't treat nightstand, dresser, TV/DVD, closet, lamp. I would, however, treat curtains since bugs are more visible there and could be picked up with vacuum. I'd also dust the baseboards..."

    Richard

  22. bugged-cdn

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    if the homeowner has a little patience, the trade off is not only saving money but not having to turn your life upside down with unnecessary prep work, except I imagine is a very heavy infestation, but even then the bugs eventually will need to come out and have a meal.

    The keyword here being homeowner. Unfortunately renters make up a huge proportion of bed bug sufferers. The above scenario is not an option for them. First because not reporting can lead to liability, and once reported, the landlord will implement his own treatment plan. The PCO will insist on his prep sheet being followed to the letter. If it isn't, the landlord will be informed and there will be consequences. Most PCOs aren't too keen on DIY either, at least not while the unit is undergoing treatment by them.

  23. Richard56

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    Tue May 30 2017 21:05:47
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    You point is well taken if someone else is in charge of the treatment. But that said, the principles for the most part are the same, and in fact many PCO's are now adopting a less (or no prep) approach both because of the stated dynamics of bed bug behavior as well as the fact that an aggressive prep not only can be time and money consuming but that it also can actually spread the infestation if not done properly.

    So, in an ideal multi-family situation, where you are the renter, and the landlord hires the PCO, you will be dealing with a PCO who takes a less or no-prep approach and again relies to a greater extent on bed bug behavior which will eventually bring the bugs out toward the kill or trap zone near the bed.

    As to less than ideal PCO's, or simply incompetent PCO's, this is a difficult situation that many here have to deal with. How much we follow what they tell us to do and how much we might do by ourselves in these cases can be a difficult decision that will vary depending on the individual circumstances. And then of course there is the issue of adjoining apartments which has to be addressed in most cases.

    I just want to be clear that the approach originally outlined is not the only approach, just a reasonable way to deal with bed bugs without turning your life and pocket book upside down.

    There are some very good PCO's out there that do more of a "blitzkrieg" integrative approach using vacuuming, steam, sprays, dusts, encasement's, etc, and they can often take care of the problem in only one visit. Now you will be lucky if the landlord hires such a bed bug annihilator like this (John Furman (KillerQueen) is one of them). But more likely you will get a baseboard jockey with their big prep sheet.

    Richard

  24. bed-bugscouk

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    Posted 1 month ago
    Wed May 31 2017 5:43:51
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    Hi Ombugsman,

    This "study" you quote from is not in the public domain so it is not possible to fully analyze the experimental design but I have been able to establish that the test was run as an arena assay. I have for a long time explained to people that this sort of test while interesting does not transfer to real world settings.

    I have also explained how previous tests have been conducted in ways that have been apparently disadvantageous to some of the products being tested, it is not difficult to do if you can overcome the ethical hurdles.

    So if you want to conclude that this product worked better in a situation that my product was not designed to work in that's up to you. It will however never make this a valid test from my perspective on this issue alone.

    If the full test report is available online I will happily review it but I don't see anything in what is provided that makes us interested in changing our current approach particularly as so many of the disclosed features of the patent are reworded prior art and as such, not new information to me.

    While some of it is an interesting idea it is not likely to keep pace with the predicted changes to how people will soon be able to deal with infestations so the window of its functionality is small at best.

    David

  25. Livingagain

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    Posted 1 month ago
    Wed May 31 2017 7:35:55
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    Hey Ombugs,
    I appreciate the detail. Could I copy just the story part and put it in a separate thread titled "Ombugsman's success story" and post it in success stories? I would just like anyone who is reading success stories for tips to see yours. Or you could do it if you want.

    Thank you for your story and your work with Leon. I'm sure this will help a lot of people.

  26. Richard56

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    Wed May 31 2017 8:26:43
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    BBUK: While some of it is an interesting idea it is not likely to keep pace with the predicted changes to how people will soon be able to deal with infestations so the window of its functionality is small at best.
    ------------------------
    Hi David,

    Can you please expand on this. Is there a particular lure or new type of treatment in the works you are referring to? Thanks.

    Richard

  27. bed-bugscouk

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    Wed May 31 2017 8:46:59
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    Hi Richard56,

    While the US industry started on the principle of "prep for success" time has shown that this is not really a viable way of proceeding. This caught on first in the RoW and has been "relaunched" into the US under the "no prep" approach banner.

    The reality is that options for efficacious and efficient prep and treat are coming. While this has been an option in the past the combination of toxic synthetic ingredients and lingering odor have meant that is not as viable as it may appear on paper.

    The reality is that once those tools are fully available there will be changes to the traditional approach of both prep / treat and no-prep / treat by virtue of the fact that it will be more cost effective to process things in this way because it is cheaper than even washing them.

    As I have said before I would not hold out for a "lure", the synthetic approach is too cost restrictive and the half-life and shelf life issues are not easy to address, particularly when you look at the scale that things need to be delivered on.

    David

  28. Richard56

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    Wed May 31 2017 9:53:29
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    Hi David,

    Are you then talking about a newer, faster prep technology, or are you talking about an approach that relies more on bed bug behavior in that the bugs will eventually come out for a meal so that there is no need to treat/prep areas away from the feeding/bed area?

    An extreme example of the latter would be something like that self heating bed where there is no prep per say and the only treatment is is to lure the bugs to the bed and then either kill/trap them with the traps on the bed legs or bake whatever bugs got through. Your treatment by monitor approach for smaller infestations also seems to fall into this concept.

    Or, are you simply talking about a newer type of prep technology which would save time over the usual heat treatments (packtite, dryer, etc)?

    Richard

  29. Ombugsman

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    Wed May 31 2017 12:17:38
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    A few weeks ago there was a discussion of what is the gold standard for treatment. That, of course, is difficult to answer because it depends on so many factors. Warren Buffett could choose to Vikane his house. More practically, the best pesticide IMO is one which is safe, kills resistant and non-resistant bugs, and achieves high kill rate after brief exposure. CimeXa fits that profile but it's tedious and time consuming to apply if you're treating an entire residence. Another product which appears to meet that test is the Beauveria-based Aprehend which should be available in the next few months. Aprehend is delivered in spray form so it should be more appealing to PCOs hired by landlords since they will be to apply it faster (and cheaper therefore to landlords). There likely will a paradigm shift over time from seeking out bed bugs to strategically placing Aprehend and CimeXa in various parts of the residence. There should be no need for decluttering, emptying closets/dressers etc., treating outlets/paintings/electronics etc. All of that, of course, hinges on Aprehend working as advertised.

  30. Ombugsman

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    Wed May 31 2017 12:32:30
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    This "study" you quote from is not in the public domain so it is not possible to fully analyze the experimental design but I have been able to establish that the test was run as an arena assay. I have for a long time explained to people that this sort of test while interesting does not transfer to real world settings.

    Richard Naylor has agreed to produce a test report. Leon and he are discussing the level of detail. Richard wrote he is presently very busy so Leon will try to minimize the amount of work he has to do. The only reason there isn't a test report under his name at this time is that the test was conducted in 2015 and Leon had no intention of selling the monitor to the public at that time. He planned to use it as part of his own extermination services if test results were favorable. Leon published on his blog a direct quote from the email Richard sent him at the conclusion of the test stating the results.

    There are many different types of arena tests. Let's take the one you reference for your monitor on your website. First of all there's no independent report produced for that test. You didn't even specify the name of the person or organization who conducted the test. That reeks of these fly-by-night outfits that advertise "independently tested" but tell you nothing more. Your test involved giving bugs a choice of a paper harborage versus your monitor in some confined space. That has zero relevance to the real world where bugs in a bed will have access to many more attractive harborages than paper against which your monitor will be competing: box springs, bed frames, headboards, and mattresses.

    Naylor's test was far more sophisticated than your test. He used an actual bed, mimicked day/night cycles, CO2 generation and a large number of bugs. BTW you need a large enough number of bugs for the test to be statistically valid. The results of Leon's field use of the monitor has been consistent with the results of Richard's testing. It may be that the attractiveness of these types of monitors in general might vary depending upon the exact bed type; indeed you write on your website your monitor performs considerably worse on metal and various wood frames versus divan style beds. However, there's no reason to believe the relative attractiveness of Leon's monitor versus yours would vary by bed type. Tomorrow I'll post how the monitor works and people will begin to understand why it is superior to yours in a couple of key ways - a conclusion BTW which Naylor drew as the result of his testing.

    Dr Richard Naylor's been working with bed bugs for over a decade. He's British and knows David. David on his website has cited Naylor's testing in other areas and praised his research. He knows how to conduct tests. Leon asked him to conduct a quality test so he could know whether to start using them in his practice, not to sell them to the public. That's what Naylor did. He had no vested interest in how the test turned out. Keep that in mind if you're wondering whether to believe Naylor's test or whatever David has to say. Really, David's just throwing out all kinds of stuff trying to muddy the waters: expiration date, "minor changes", arena test.

  31. bed-bugscouk

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    Hi Richard56,

    I mean a new way to process things as you prep effectively moving what people call prep into the realms of treatment itself. Essentially making the treatment of items a parallel process as opposed an in series one.

    Self-heating bed, hmm, not a new idea that one and certainly one that has always failed to overcome the laws of thermodynamics which spot this approach from working. Its an old chestnut in terms of patent claims and ideas and before you know it you will have to throw in some "blood and bone meal" to match the 1916 claims.

    I can only suggest that you go back an read TbyPMR because you have missed an essential step in its method which is not actually product dependent, it often comes about when someone over simplifies their perspective. We see something similar when following things are mentioned:

    • *NEW* magic bullet
    • *NEW* magic fungus
    • Why cant we have a pill you can just take
    • Use dimmed lights
    • Use a plastic sheet to sleep on
    • Use a barrier of glue to sleep on

    All things that could sound feasible until you look at the actual practicalities.

    David

  32. bbmom

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    Wed May 31 2017 17:18:59
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    bugged-cdn - 22 hours ago  » 

    if the homeowner has a little patience, the trade off is not only saving money but not having to turn your life upside down with unnecessary prep work, except I imagine is a very heavy infestation, but even then the bugs eventually will need to come out and have a meal.

    The keyword here being homeowner. Unfortunately renters make up a huge proportion of bed bug sufferers. The above scenario is not an option for them. First because not reporting can lead to liability, and once reported, the landlord will implement his own treatment plan. The PCO will insist on his prep sheet being followed to the letter. If it isn't, the landlord will be informed and there will be consequences. Most PCOs aren't too keen on DIY either, at least not while the unit is undergoing treatment by them.

    Yep, this is what happened to us, I can attest to this being complete truth. If you live in a managed apartment building, you must follow the steps of your PCO, whoever the landlord employs and you have zero choice in choosing the treatment. You also have zero choice in how the infestation is diagnosed, they bring K9 and if there is at least one positive alert, they don't check if it's material or not, they proceed with a treatment, they take no chances. We are suffering from this "one-size-fits-all" approach, which is obviously designed for the heaviest of infestations, whereas we may have one or two stray bugs or nothing at all.

    Our lives have been turned upside down, our summer ruined, chaos is killing my brain. I have two small kids, who keep unpacking toys, we have 2 FT jobs and I am worried about managing my life at this point, it's like we live in a constant state of emergency and we still have zero sign of bugs, their traces or bites. We don't even know at this point if we are even treating anything at all.

    I really really would love to have a good reliable bedbug monitor to even see if we have any bugs.

  33. Ombugsman

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    Wed May 31 2017 20:21:37
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    Hey Ombugs,
    I appreciate the detail. Could I copy just the story part and put it in a separate thread titled "Ombugsman's success story" and post it in success stories? I would just like anyone who is reading success stories for tips to see yours. Or you could do it if you want.

    Thanks BL. I'll have to think about this a bit more. My first inclination is to post something in the Who's Who at Bedbugger (non-expert edition) which talks about my use of CimeXa 3 years ago and why I'm here now and then links to this thread.

  34. Ombugsman

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    Wed May 31 2017 20:39:41
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    I will post on Friday the detail on how Collectabug monitor works as well as a link to its user guide. There's one more piece of preliminary business and that is my role in all of this and why Leon Wieler is not posting here.

    I mentioned earlier in this thread that I found Leon's blog early in my infestation and achieved some success in modifying regular glue traps per the principles he outlines on his website. In all my reading on bed bugs - and believe me it's extensive - I only encountered one professional who ever admitted he was wrong about something and that was Leon. One example may be found on his youtube video titled Can Bed Bugs Climb Teflon and Glass? He even posted a video of one of his failed attempts at modifying a ClimbUp interceptor to make it more effective titled Testing a Climb Up Interceptor With Holes Drilled in the Sides.

    I found his humility to be refreshing in a field infested with scam artists and people making bloated claims to make a buck on the suffering of bed bug victims. His blog reads almost like an autobiography charting his journey of discovery since more than a decade ago when he decided as an inner city landlord to become his own exterminator. One of his videos which attracted a great deal of attention was the one showing bed bugs climbing the outer walls of ClimbUps and walking around the rim but failing to enter the pitfall trap. My first contact with Leon was an email I sent asking if he'd be willing to test dusting CimeXa on the edge and top rim of a ClimbUp to determine if it would kill the bugs which didn't end up in the trap. He replied he wasn't interested because CimeXa was not legal to use in Canada and he didn't want to spend time testing a product he couldn't deploy in his own practice. We ended up talking about some other things and we've been corresponding on and off for the last 2.5 years.

    Leon achieved incredible results when he began to put his products out for independent testing. Remember that failed ClimbUp experiment? Well he kept at it and finally designed a plastic monitor which tested 8 times more effective than ClimbUps at trapping bed bugs. A few months ago I asked him if he ever intended to make any of these monitors available to the public. He didn't need the money and the aggravation of marketing/sales which he was neither interested in nor adept at. So somewhat to my surprise, he replied he probably should. I told him I would help him in any way I could if he decided to move ahead. With regard to Collectabug, I said one of the things I could do was to help generate awareness of the product by posting on bedbugger and maybe some other sites.

    That is why I'm posting here again. After my infestation 3 years ago, I was maybe the first to champion CimeXa on the internet. To give you an idea, there were only a few bullets on CimeXa on the Rockwell website (manufacturer) at the time. That was it. I thought the dust would give low income victims and those for whom PCO treatments failed a fighting chance against bed bugs. I proposed to write a DIY plan, open it up for comments from pros and bed bug victims, modify it as required, and iterate the process until a crowd-sourced plan resulted to which no name would be attached. NoBugs was very receptive to a DIY plan but only if a professional wrote it and agreed to stand by it so nothing came of it. I'd like to think my time posting here helped to raise awareness of the potential of CimeXa and others picked up on that. Right after I left here, Joel Z Williams posted some popular videos on CimeXa. Someone created a whole sub-reddit dedicated to CimeXa.

    In my final post on bedbugger back then, I wrote that it would be my last post on bedbugger. That prompted someone here to call me a "liar" and a "troll" when I resurfaced. Lying requires the intention to deceive and at the time I wrote that I had no intention of ever posting on bedbugger again. But helping Leon generate awareness of his monitors necessitated I start posting here again. I'm a retired management consultant and do a lot of volunteer work now. This falls in that category. I don't receive a penny from Leon and in fact I refused to accept free monitors from him so I could say I've never received any compensation in any form for helping him out.

    That brings us to why Leon is not posting here. Leon's not averse to posting on bedbugger but he has no interest in mud-wrestling with David Cain. David has alienated many a professional on this site in the past. Leon believes he's too rigid to ever change his positions in the face of new evidence and that he's either completely clueless when he makes the claims he does for his monitor or he's intentionally deceiving people to sell the product. A recent simple example: David in another thread said he talked to Naylor but later he referred to his work as an "alleged study". Well if he had talked to Richard he knew he did perform a test of Collectabug and his BB Alert. Even worse, I've detailed David's unethical testing of Packtite versus Zappbug in this thread. What is especially irritating is that he often puts himself out as some beacon of integrity.

    Leon is not selling his monitor to make money. He'll be putting out a "how to build your own Collectabug" video soon. Why would someone interested in making money cannibalize their sales by showing people the step-by-step process to build their own monitors? He's actually conducted "build your own" workshops in community centers but found that a high % of people didn't construct the monitors properly. That experience plus the knowledge that many people won't want to spend time doing it is why he's now selling them.

  35. bed-bugscouk

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    Thu Jun 1 2017 4:44:12
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    Hi Ombugsman,

    I did speak with Richard.

    He did confirm an arena test.

    He also confirmed that the confidentiality agreement he signed does not allow him to talk about it beyond that.

    This report is not in the public domain so I am not able to mud wrestle critique its content beyond the fact that I have explained many times and at international meetings that arena tests will not produce reliable results that translate to the field.

    As your perpetuating this fallacy about "unethical" testing I will again draw your attention to the fact that a video and a test report are two completely different things. A lot like our reasons for being here, very different things. I am here to use my knowledge, skills and experience to help people, something my company funds because it is needed. You have admitted as much that you are near again with an agenda which is not focused on helping people but is all about promoting products. On several occasions you have erroneously accused me of doing just that and yet here you are doing that yourself.

    Furthermore on several occasions you have berated me for not having published data and yet the only proof we have that you represent something that works is itself unpublished data. However, repeatedly you have ignored this fact despite it being clearly pointed out that this "report" is not available online to look at.

    I have put work out for my peers to review and critique and have received feedback from academics whose opinions actually matter, both to me and to the wider industry. The most noted of these is the ABMMBB chapters I am author on. In order to be allowed to do this I was subjected to a two day audit of clients and claims which I passed with flying colours. As for the claims that I make they are all backed up because we only claim what clients have confirmed to us. Our host actually has copies of the references and letters of testimonial we have received so that she can confirm that they exist. I am sure you can appreciate such documents can't be placed online without heavy redaction which is why I cant link to them.

    As for running people from sites I think you might also be guilty of that one. However, as you choose tho hide behind multiple accounts it is very difficult to put all of that together. I on the other hand always post under my real name and identity, so I can be accountable and traceable. Such behavior is often referred to as "trolling" online and on many occasions you posts have fallen into that classification, including the one I am currently replying to. If you don't like being called a troll the solution would simply be to stop acting like one and fully appreciate that based on the private messages and personal communications I have received that the wider readership do not appreciate what you are doing, it is seen as aggressive and rude.

    Now if you wish to continue to make libelous comments please be aware that in doing so you open yourself up to risk of litigation. I personally never feel that this is the solution to such situations but while you continue to make statements which are clearly unsubstantiated lies you leave yourself open to that risk. As such I hope that you heed what has been said and cease these personal attacks.

    David

  36. Ombugsman

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    Fri Jun 2 2017 8:36:31
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    So folks I had intended today to go into detail on how and why the Collectabug monitor works and give you a link to its user guide. Unfortunately I was unable to post yesterday and now have noticed a comment from David threatening me with a libel suit and calling me a "troll". I will now have to delay that Collectabug discussion until Monday to respond to his personal attacks in a series of comments.

    I did speak with Richard....He did confirm an arena test....He also confirmed that the confidentiality agreement he signed does not allow him to talk about it beyond that.

    A few days ago you said you heard from Richard yet continued to call it an "alleged study". Surely you knew Richard had conducted the test. Were you trying to deceive people? It appeared to have worked temporarily on one member who responded: So, if I'm correct, we can ignore the 15% figure quoted above? That Richard even said he was not aware of the study? Since I wrote the other day that Richard would be producing a report now you have to acknowledge there was a test.

    So let's summarize your reactions so far: The BB Alert has expired, not a proper test! I've made "minor changes" to monitor so not a proper test! There may never have been a test! You're sounding increasingly desperate David. Richard Naylor's very busy at the moment but will probably issue the report at the end of June at which time he's doling some more testing of Leon's Collectabed. I've explained why no formal report was produced in a previous post in this thread.

  37. BigDummy

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    Fri Jun 2 2017 8:52:44
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    Some of us volunteer our time here to help, some to argue.

  38. Ombugsman

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    Fri Jun 2 2017 9:10:27
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    I am here to use my knowledge, skills and experience to help people, something my company funds because it is needed. You have admitted as much that you are near again with an agenda which is not focused on helping people but is all about promoting products.

    Did you not read my previous post? Unlike you, I have no financial interest in anything I promote here. As I wrote, I promoted CimeXa in the very early days because I felt it could be helpful to low-income victims who could not afford a PCO and those for whom PCO treatment had failed. I wanted to create a DIY plan to guide them step-by-step on how to resolve their infestation. That's not "helping people"? I was maybe the first one to champion CimeXa on the web and I've now been completely vindicated in that effort. Today, on reddit new people every week post how CimeXa was the key to beating the bed bugs. You were not very helpful calling CimeXa "drinking the Cool-Ade" and citing "reported" health issues. When I questioned you further on the health claims, it turns out you were referring to the comments of someone who was apparently a well-known reddit troll. Was that an example of using your knowledge and experience to help people?

    As for monitors, early detection is key to prevent an infestation from spreading and becoming more difficult to treat. They also help in determining whether treatment has been successful. Leon's monitor is waaay more attractive to bed bugs than yours plus it's waaay easier to inspect. If people use his monitor instead of yours, they will enhance their chances of detecting and treating an infestation. Bed bugs are a difficult pest to eradicate, the margin for error is slim. You need to be using the best products in the fight against them. Just like I've stated nobody should be using DE over CimeXa (where CimeXa is available), I will state nobody should be using your monitor over Leon's.

    After Collectabug has been launched, I will focus on helping Leon sell the design of his plastic interceptor which caught 8 times as many bed bugs as the ClimbUp in Naylor's test. Don't you think people would be eager to have such a monitor? Would that not be helpful to them?

    As to your motives, one PCO recently said you've turned bedbugger into your personal marketing website. Most people new to the site don't realize it's a fairly trivial matter to tell whether a bug is a bed bug. You do a lot of those and people are wowed and then believe you have similar expertise in other areas. Not true. Most of the treatment advice you give is mediocre at best. Without going into detail, in another thread I supported the decision of a poster to encase their box spring and encasements while you argued against it. A week later the poster commented that the encasements had resolved the issue. I've explained to you why isolation won't lead to dispersal if you do it properly and you've never been able to refute this. The list goes on and on.

  39. Ombugsman

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    Fri Jun 2 2017 9:28:44
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    I have put work out for my peers to review and critique and have received feedback from academics whose opinions actually matter, both to me and to the wider industry. The most noted of these is the ABMMBB chapters I am author on. In order to be allowed to do this I was subjected to a two day audit of clients and claims which I passed with flying colours. As for the claims that I make they are all backed up because we only claim what clients have confirmed to us. Our host actually has copies of the references and letters of testimonial we have received so that she can confirm that they exist. I am sure you can appreciate such documents can't be placed online without heavy redaction which is why I cant link to them.

    So no public documentation at all? Just your word? Let me be specific as to what you've claimed and what's at issue here:

    Claim 1:

    In a non isolated bed a clear Passive Monitor for 14 days is an all clear. With Passive Monitoring there is a 14 day rule to all clear (written many times on the forum and static sections).

    Claim 2:

    The reality is that the data presented on the website confirms detection of a single bed bug brought into a location within 12 - 72 hours when the monitor is installed in advance and within the 14 day window when the bed bug is present in advance of the monitor.

    There's absolutely no independent study that supports either of those claims and Naylor's tests show that those statements are not even close to being true. Killer Queen, Paul Bello and others have said you make exaggerated claims for your monitor. Even Wieler whose monitor is waay more attractive to bed bugs than yours doesn't make those claims. And then there have been victims on this site who were still being bitten after 14 days and were asking you why the bugs hadn't relocated to your monitor.

  40. Ombugsman

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    Fri Jun 2 2017 9:46:52
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    I on the other hand always post under my real name and identity, so I can be accountable and traceable. Such behavior is often referred to as "trolling" online and on many occasions you posts have fallen into that classification, including the one I am currently replying to.

    The moderator of this site is anonymous and I'm pretty sure she advises others to post anonymously. Professionals are held to a higher standard for obvious reasons. Plus how would you sell your monitors if people didn't know who you were?

    As for trolling, there's this from the urban dictionary: Trolling requires deceiving; any trolling that doesn't involve deceiving someone isn't trolling at all; it's just stupid. As such, your victim must not know that you are trolling; if he does, you are an unsuccesful troll.

    How am I deceiving anyone? I explained the history and why I'm posting here now. I'm calling you out on claims you repeatedly make here (just like other pros have) because there's no evidence to support them and now there's evidence which refutes them. You have to stop making these claims because, while it may help you sell your monitors, it's hurting people's efforts to deal with their infestations. And Leon will make no such claims for his own monitors.

    Ombugsman is a one-letter change from the word "Ombudsman". An ombudsman is an independent public advocate which is how I view myself in the area of bedbugs. I believe all pertinent information should be revealed to posters and then they may make an informed decision on a particular issue.

  41. bed-bugscouk

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    Fri Jun 2 2017 10:33:31
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    BigDummy - 1 hour ago  » 
    Some of us volunteer our time here to help, some to argue.

    I think you might just be onto something there and the two are not always mutually exclusive.

    David

  42. Richard56

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    Fri Jun 2 2017 10:47:25
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    Ombugsman: Ombugsman is a one-letter change from the word "Ombudsman". An ombudsman is an independent public advocate which is how I view myself in the area of bedbugs. I believe all pertinent information should be revealed to posters and then they may make an informed decision on a particular issue.
    -------------------------------------
    Your efforts are appreciated.

    Richard

  43. Livingagain

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    Fri Jun 2 2017 11:56:25
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    Ombugsman's efforts have a huge potential to help people, who can't afford the steamers or professional treatment that are almost universally proscribed to defeat this problem.

    David your efforts have helped many, many people.

    I've only seen Ombugsman's efforts to help people being derailed by argument when he has been attacked. He has solicited responses that could be given without personal attacks, but that isn't what has happened. Similar to what I saw happen to Poiqm when she was inexplicably driven from the forum as she tried to help people.

    We need all hands on deck for this problem. David you do so much good, but the pissing contest helps no one.

  44. bed-bugscouk

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    Fri Jun 2 2017 13:21:28
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    Livingagain - 1 hour ago  » 
    .... but the pissing contest helps no one.

    So I am not allowed to defend myself when someone starts trying to piss on me?

    Funny how it always takes groups working together and yet I am accused of bullying.

    It's a shame because as you have said my efforts have helped so many and will continue to do so primarily because I will always prioritize helping people over feeding those who are here for their own agenda.

    However, if you wish to judge me based on less than 0.001% of the posts I make I certainly will not stop you.

    David

  45. Livingagain

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    Fri Jun 2 2017 13:38:18
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    I just think it's a shame to force someone who is sincerely trying to help off the boards, as happened with Poiqm.

    You have a big presence here with your passive monitors. Anyone who spends 1 minute here knows about them and what they do. I've recommended them to people, and I think I've seen Ombugs recommend them to people.

    You do you, but Ombugs has much to offer as well.

  46. bed-bugscouk

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    Fri Jun 2 2017 18:14:30
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    Hi,

    Can you provide proof for the fallacious allegation that I forced Poiqm off the boards. I think you will find they closed their account after repeatedly being warned about the rules and how offering treatment advice when you are not qualified to do so is dangerous.

    I only report a post if there is a technical issue, I am so used to the snide jibes and digs most of them are just ignored. Its only when the deja moo gets too much will I respond.

    I think you will also find that I spent several years on the forum helping and listening before I invented the Passive Monitor and given that I did that in 2009 these allegations and "ganging ups" on me are actually only in the last few years.

    David

  47. Livingagain

    senior member
    Joined: Jul '08
    Posts: 496

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    Posted 1 month ago
    Fri Jun 2 2017 18:24:40
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    David,
    Everyone loves you here. It's ok for someone else to have something to offer.

    Mwah!


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