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My guitar?
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katie
newbite
Joined: Jun '09
Posts: 9
Posted 4 months ago
Sun Jun 28 2009 17:42:33
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Hi everyone. I'm really glad this site exists because it has given me a lot of useful information.
I moved into a highrise in January 2009 which I recently found out is well known for having an infestation. I started waking up with bites about a month ago, but I found nothing when I searched my bedroom thoroughly. Then, last week, I found a bed bug crawling on the coffee table. I promptly trapped the little sucker for proof (since everyone was telling me I was paranoid) and put it in a bag.
I left my apartment two days later and I am staying with my parents. I brought some clothes with me (washed and dried on hottest temperature available). I still have to go back to get the rest of my salvageable belongings.
I have an acoustic guitar and hardshell case that I cannot bear to part with. What is the best way to ensure that they are both completely bed bug and egg free before I take it to my parents place?
I know that bed bugs like wood and there are lots of hiding places inside the guitar (maybe I can shake it a bunch to disturb them?)
Would running a hair dryer over it for a while do any good?
Thanks for your help and advice. I'm really lost on this :(
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bugoff_1
junior member
Joined: May '09
Posts: 35
Posted 4 months ago
Sun Jun 28 2009 19:01:01
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I'm wondering the exact same thing as you katie. I did read somewhere on this forum that vacuuming the guitar at least 5x's could work (?).
Since my LL is too cheap to hire a PCO, I'm utilizing everything I read here from all of you to try and manage a "solo" move (no bb's hitchiking)!
I'm wondering if anyone knows if using 91% alcohol on wood is effective? I have a beautiful solid Oak bed frame that cost me $800 and is only 2 yrs old that I really want to save if possible.
Also, any advice on using plastic bags (Zip-locks) and plastic bins. As I'm packing, I am putting everything from the dryer straight away into the bags, as well as wiping down lamps, etc. with alcohol into the bins and then duct taping them closed. *But when moving day comes, would it help to wipe even these bags/bins down with alcohol before putting them into the moving truck? Can bb's attach their eggs to plastic too?
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Hi Katie,
Seal it in saran wrap or pallet wrap until you can put it in a dry white bath and do a thorough inspection.
It would be nice to think that repeat vacuum'ing is all you need but the fact is that if anything did not lift off on the first pass it is equally likely not to get removed on the 3rd, 4th or 5th. Eggs are usually laid on rough or keyed surfaces so that they stick well.
Hope this helps.
David Cain
Bed Bugs Limited -
buggyinsocal
oldtimer
Joined: Jun '08
Posts: 1,160
Posted 4 months ago
Sun Jun 28 2009 19:33:01
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bugoff
91% isopropyl alcohol is a contact kill. That is, it will kill any live bugs on whatever you spray. It will not kill any eggs on whatever you spray. It's also very flammable and very drying.
For killing live bugs on wood items like a bed frame, I would suggest Murphy's Oil Soap if it's available where you are. I first heard of it when I moved to Boston for college. The northeastern US had a lot of apartments with hard wood floors, which were very rare in the south where I'd grown up. Plenty of people in the northeast specifically use it to clean hardwood floors without damaging them.
Turns out it's also a great contact killer for bed bugs. So in terms of killing any live bugs on the frame of your bed, it'll work great. Like 91% alcohol, it's a contact kill, but it's a lot easier on wood than the alcohol would be. That much I can tell you from experience.
The problem, of course, would be if there are eggs on the frame, esp. if they are hidden away in a nook or crevice that you can't see. Sort of using thermal or Vikane or steam to treat those, the only way to make sure the bugs and eggs are all out of the frame is to go through a conventional pesticide treatment. Because the eggs are cemented into place, just vacuuming, even multiple times, isn't a guarantee that you'll remove the eggs.
I do have the Environmate steamer, and I've been very happy with it for most things, but if it was an expensive wooden item and I was worried about the finish, I'm not sure I'd use the steamer on that item, as it could damage the finish on the furniture.
If you're okay with damaging the finish, then one of the dry vapor steamers would be your best bet for making sure to kill all the bugs and eggs on the bed frame.
I would think that a thorough inspection of the outside of the plastic bins, esp. if they are sealed with duct tape, would be sufficient. Those bins tend to come in colors that bed bug eggs would contrast pretty clearly with: mine were pale blue and bring purple.
The other option would be to use plastic to seal up the frame for 18 months and put it in storage somewhere.
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muddy
Banned
Joined: Jun '09
Posts: 38
Posted 4 months ago
Sun Jun 28 2009 19:38:28
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I blew steam down the sound hole of my acoustic. As it was trapped steam the temperature was hot enough to kill any bugs or eggs. If I didn't have a steamere, I'd get it drunk for sure ;-)
From what I've read, BB's die at 113f and above, so if you can stick a temperature proble down your sound hole and then blow hot air in with your hair dryer, I don't see how you can fail to a reach a temp a good deal above 113f and kill any BB's in there. Whether such high temperatures will affect the guitars structure, I don't know.
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bugoff_1
junior member
Joined: May '09
Posts: 35
Posted 4 months ago
Sun Jun 28 2009 20:20:10
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Excellent advice buggyinsocal, THANK YOU! I use Murphy's soap a lot so have a large supply of it. I had NO idea it could be as effective as alcohol (and safer!) so I will now be using that instead.
It sounds like the best I can do with the bed frame and my wood hand-carved antique coffee table is wipe it down with Murphy's then wrap it up for storage.
As for the guitar, which katie originally started this post with, personally I would not feel comfortable using steam on or in it. As with most guitars, there are parts inside which are glued in place, including the pick guard on the outside. The hair dryer seems a better idea...did you notice any damage after you used it on yours muddy? Any other suggestions would be very welcome.
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My guitar seems to be alright. I think you're right about the steam though, it could loosen some of the glued conponents. I think the hair dryer is sufficient and easier to control if you use a temperature probe.
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senior member
Joined: May '07
Posts: 426
Posted 4 months ago
Mon Jun 29 2009 14:33:03
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" My guitar" must surely weep at the thought of bed bugs. I had a situation where someone picked up a guitar case from the trash and that was the method of infestation for them. I would be careful with heat and alcohol in terms of wood damage. Sort of a sticky wicket. I might think heat though might do it but I don't know the guitars limitations in that area, obviously the Jimmy Hendrix method takes things a bit too far. Since it is acoustic; fumigation internally might be an option as it has but one entrance. You might consider some kind of adhesive minefield surrounding the sound hole. I suggest you confer with a guitar specialist and find out how they handle wood pests in your area. Good luck.
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buggyinsocal
oldtimer
Joined: Jun '08
Posts: 1,160
Posted 4 months ago
Mon Jun 29 2009 14:37:06
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Typos are the bane of my existence.
My post about the bed frame should read "short of" not "sort of."
Whatever only sort of using thermal or Vikane looks like, it's probably not a good thing.
D'oh. </ Homer Simpson moment>
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spideyjg
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Joined: Jul '08
Posts: 1,524
Posted 4 months ago
Mon Jun 29 2009 15:24:14
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If available Vikane is the best bet for an acoustic guitar. I had instruments Vikaned and there was no ill effect.
Temps of 150 begins to break the adhesion of some glues and rapid temp changes are bad mojo for acoustics period.
Jim
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muddy
Banned
Joined: Jun '09
Posts: 38
Posted 4 months ago
Mon Jun 29 2009 16:12:59
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spideyjg - 46 minutes ago »
If available Vikane is the best bet for an acoustic guitar. I had instruments Vikaned and there was no ill effect.
Temps of 150 begins to break the adhesion of some glues and rapid temp changes are bad mojo for acoustics period.
JimYeah, I think you're probably right there. I would've freaked if I'd had ruined my Yamaha acoustic, it's a seventies model and worth some bucks. It plays lovely as well. The fear of bed bugs can make one do some stupid things at times.
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katie
newbite
Joined: Jun '09
Posts: 9
Posted 4 months ago
Tue Jun 30 2009 18:14:15
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First I want to thank you all for your advice.
My mom seems to think I can suffocate bed bugs. She thinks I should put my computer tower, monitor and guitar in different plastic bags for a few days. She says the bed bugs, if any, will come out and eventually suffocate from lack of oxygen.
Is this accurate at all? Will it help?Also, as a follow up to my previous guitar thread.. what if I put my acoustic guitar in a huge plastic bag, add moths balls (inside the guitar or just in the bag?) seal it, and leave it in the shed for a few days. Will this get rid of any possible bugs?
Thanks again everyone. It's comforting to know that other people have experienced the same nightmare.. (especially since I haven't told many people in 'real life').
Edit: I have a bottle of Raid House & Garden Killer. It says on the back that it kills bed bugs on contact. I plan spray the inside of the guitar first (not sure if it's a good idea since there is electrical wiring.. but I'll take the risk I guess?).. what do you guys think?
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buggyinsocal
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Joined: Jun '08
Posts: 1,160
Posted 4 months ago
Tue Jun 30 2009 19:07:53
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Tell your mom that suffocating bed bugs simply does not work. If it did, given how many ziplocks many of us have bought, the pest would be a lot easier to deal with.
You can essentially starve the bugs by keeping them away from food sources for a long period of time. However, because the bugs can slow their metabolism, the science all says that some stages of bed bugs can live for over a year in that state of a lowered metabolism.
In order to starve the bugs out, the general suggested protocol is to seal the items in question in plastic and leave them there for 18 months.
So in that sense, she's right that putting them in bags and leaving them alone long enough will kill the bugs. But a couple of days won't do it.
I wouldn't be spraying liquids of any sort into an electric guitar. That sounds like it's likely to damage the electronics.
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katie
newbite
Joined: Jun '09
Posts: 9
Posted 4 months ago
Tue Jun 30 2009 22:01:26
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So what can I do? Other than leaving it for 18 months (which isn't an option for me).
Has anyone had experience with using moth balls? I know of the associated health risks and plan to take precautions. -
spideyjg
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Joined: Jul '08
Posts: 1,524
Posted 4 months ago
Tue Jun 30 2009 22:25:20
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Hot Shot no pest strips use DDVP as an active ingredient and may be a better thing than mothballs.
From feedback I hear mothballs can leave a lingering oder and that would suck for your guitar.
I keep a strip hanging in storage and left an instrument exposed for a month and no harm came to it. Seal the guitar up in a bag with that for 2 weeks +. Only open it outside when done.
You can't realistically suffocate BBs and starving them takes up to 18 months.
Jim
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buggyinsocal
oldtimer
Joined: Jun '08
Posts: 1,160
Posted 4 months ago
Wed Jul 1 2009 0:30:10
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DDVP strips are a solid substance that outgases (English major attempting to explain science, so my terminology here sucks--fair warning) a gaseous fumigant.
DDVP strips are only labeled for use in uninhabited places or "places that are inhabited less than 4 hours a day or something" as one of the PCOs pointed out. For example, they were used in the tack shed near the horse barn at my summer camp, because really, you only went in there long enough to get feed and.or pick up or put down saddles, bridles, and or halters, right? It's not like anyone slept there.
Technically, using them this way is an off label usage.
And because the strips give off a chemical gas, as EffeCi keeps pointing out to my addle-brained self, it doesn't leave a residue behind.
But, the items must be sealed up with the strips in an airtight container. Because doing so is an off label usage, you should be careful when you do this. That means that air tight container needs to be really airtight. It would be best if you can to store the item in its container in treatment not inside an inhabited structure (on a balcony, in garage no one lives in, in a shed in a yard, etc.)
After the item has been sealed up for the requisite length of time, be sure to open the air tight container outside if at all possible. Do not open the container up inside in someplace that people live (Again, balcony, garage, shed, etc. all okay.). You want to give the gas a chance to escape before you bring the container back into your house.
Or, at least, that's my understanding from the last time a PCO commented on it. Remember: I'm an English major and my last chemistry class was probably before you were born.
I used DDVP strips in the bins in which my DVDs, CDs, and VHS tapes that were not in the apartment during thermal treatment were stored. They had already been sealed up and in isolation for over 8 months. I put the DDVP strips in for about a week. Given the temps here, and the fact that I was pretty sure they were bug free to start out with, the 9 months plus week of DDVP strips made me convinced they were safe, and I'm happy to report that when I brought them back in, they were bug free. No bites since then.
I hope some of that is helpful, and I trust the pros will step in if I've screwed any of the science and warnings up.
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I played my guitar yesterday. It seems to play fine, despite the steam treatment.
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Thanks guys/gals.
I lightly sprayed the inside with some Raid which lists bed bugs on the can as one of the victims.. it also has permathin(?) in it. I then sprayed the Raid on a few tissues and put it inside the guitar. I sealed it in three large clear plastic bags. I left it out in the sun today (well, we had two hours of sun in total..) and I am leaving it overnight in the shed. Tomorrow, weather permitting, I am going to put it back in the sun. It doesn't get that hot here, probably 80 F tops... but the guitar is a darker colour which traps the heat. I am also thinking that the bags will make it hotter in there by trapping the heat. Am I right on this?
I find it very unlikely that there are bed bugs in the guitar because we didn't have a big infestation.. at least, I don't think so. I only ever found one bug and my roommate hasn't seen any in the last week that I've been gone.
Tomorrow after I leave it in the sun for a while I am going to use a shop vac and clean out the inside. Then I'll probably spray more Raid and leave it out in the sun for another few hours.
Does this sound at all like a good action plan?
As for the case, I thoroughly sprayed it with Raid (to the point where it was wet) and left it on my apartment balcony. I'm going back to the apartment in a few days and I'll spray it again and leave it out some more.
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buggyinsocal
oldtimer
Joined: Jun '08
Posts: 1,160
Posted 4 months ago
Wed Jul 1 2009 21:51:00
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I don't want to stress you out, but I did want to mention that you might want to confirm with someone who knows more about the chemicals than I do whether whatever chemical is in there breaks down in heat or not.
I mention that because many PCOs discourage the use of steam after treatment since the heat will break down some of the chemicals. I don't know which ones.
So putting the chemicals in with the guitar and then subjecting it to heat might be undoing the effectiveness of the chemicals you're using.
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effinbugs
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Joined: Aug '08
Posts: 38
Posted 4 months ago
Fri Jul 3 2009 1:26:39
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I had this problem too.
I inspected the guitar and saw nothing but, being paranoid, I vacuumed it and then sprayed it with Raid inside and out.
It stunk but it was fine and I never had problems with the bugs.
Make sure to do its case too.
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